Do you know I was proud to be Horde and I enjoyed it when WoW was vanilla. That was pride. "For the HORDE!"
These days few games have it may be SWTOR you still hear it in the conversations but a lot of games go like GW 2 no real pride being a race or faction.
Faction lock, no faction lock, meh doesn't concern me either way and I still don't understand how it impacts gameplay.
And when people say stuff like "Faction pride" that's fine, if the faction still exists, then you can still have faction pride . . . it's not racial pride.
Well i think for some people, its the emotion, immersion, feeling they have when they play a game which keeps them playing. For instance, graphics does that with me and that has nothing to do with gameplay. Soundtrack in a game does that to me too but has nothing to do with gameplay. When there isnt that seperation, the feeling of factions/races and stuff goes to zero for me. I know it doesnt effect everybody and some people like it and i totally respect that but for me its not what i like.
^--- This, but also that it is actually Racial Pride. Race is a pretty huge deal in Cyrodiil since skincolour is rarely what causes racism within the Elder Scrolls universe. It's mainly due to the tendencies of the races. Stereotypical, maybe. But lorewise it remains true. The majority of all High Elves are elitist, the Argonians are almost only concerned about their homelands and the Hist, the Dunmer are devious and deceitful. It goes on. It's pretty clear cut between all races.
I'm sure that if there was a super christian nation that bordered with a nation of devil worshipers and the two nations were physically distinctive I'm sure that both nations would keep to themselves. It's simply impossible to relate to the extreme conditions of the Elder Scrolls Universe.
I'm all for immersion, but I'm able to make the distinction between a faction and an individual. For example, I was born outside the US, currently live in the US but have no particular pride for either country while I very much support certain countries I have no affiliation with because I like their culture better. So maybe this move hits close to home for me because I'm an individual displaced from a faction and feel that my faction is my choice.
Also, just to mention a nation of devil worshipers would also be a christian nation, they would just be in disagreement about which side of christian mythology they support. Unless you're not referring to "The Devil" - just random devils (maybe Tasmanian ones).
Closest I can think of in real life to the ESO world you're imagining is Israel and Pakistan, and North & South Korea. They don't generally mix, although even in those cases you have individuals who don't support their own faction.
Right. Too bad that's extremely illegal. Atleast in the European Union. Should they make it readily available you have every right to demand your money back.
None of the promises they have broken have been part of their marketing, but this is. Anyone with even a basic grasp of consumer protection would know that. And this is not an opinion, so don't try to argue with it. No amount of lawyers can actually keep them clear of the marketing jurisdiction.
Ummm. Why is it illegal again?
I didn't see any guarantee or promise that the explorer's pack wouldn't be available post release by any other means.
it is in fact necessary if you are trying to recreate the PVP that DAOC provided, which many will argue was the best model ever delivered in a MMORPG style game.
But sure, if you are trying to create something else, like ESO seems to be trying to do, then sure, you don' t need it.
Your "many will argue" is "few" in terms of how many people play MMOs.
You are wearing rose colored glasses and refuse to even notice that I have now said twice that "You can like the idea", you are too focused in protecting due to the butthurt being offered up by Zenimax breaking the race to faction lock. Something I have said should be expected looking at how little respect they have for players.
Open your eyes man, you are arguing against someone on your side, at least partially. I have more against their reason, than the actual implemented idea, and I sure as hell don't like the man due to hid disrespect for his own customers. The move falls in line with so many other lies and distortions given over the last year, things you let slide because it was in defense of the DaoC design.
Well, when you allow a dog to bite people, they will eventually turn and bite you. And, DaoC players just got bit. You know damn well this is going to be the first of many changes because they know they MUST get as many TES fans playing as possible to recoup development cost and get themselves in the black.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Also, don't defend Firor even IF you like his design ideas because they are based on him thinking you are not intelligent. Even during the making of DaoC he stated that races must be kept separate in factions so PLAYERS would not become confused as to who the enemy is.
If you understand at all how DAOC's faction combat works, then you'd know this is a very true statement, and has nothing to do with intelligence.
The identification process when engaging a factional enemy goes something like this (remember, both enemy groups are red to the player).
First, what race are they, oh, if Firbolg, Celt, Lurkeen, etc, Hib's incoming, if Dwarf, Troll, Kobold, Mids incoming.
Recall, in DAOC each realm has strength and weakness, not all classes are the same, nor are the skills distributed in the same proportion, so generally speaking Hib groups will tend to heavily be caster focused, while Mids are likely to be Tank train focused. (Albs fall somewhere in the middle, which is why they actually are tougher to play at times)
Now that you know the race, recall that each race is limited to what classes they might be. So that Hib Firbolg you see coming, is he a sword and board tank, two handed tank, or really a healing or speeder class in disguise. This is important, because order of engagement has the group neutralizing the crowd controllers, healers, speeders, followed by hybrid casters, strong DPS and last but not least, tanking classes.
You can sometimes further discern what class you're facing if you view what they are wearing, but on some occasions people will wear different armor or weapons to mislead folks in this identification.
How quickly and accurately a group triage's their opponents and then faces off appropriately is what DAOC's faction based combat is all about, especially at the 8 man level.
Truthfully, in ESO if races can be any faction, and people can train most any skill (so all are hybrids) I'm not so sure this game's faction based combat will really be all that much like DAOC after, seems more like GW2.
Actually, removing all factions and turning it to be more like Mordred would be my preference, that's where I spent most of my time in DAOC, but that is clearly a niche preference that likely will never happen.
Proof you have not played ESO beta PvP.
How many times do people need to be told that ESO =/= DAOC 2? There are no Lurikeen or trolls that stick out like sore thumbs.
There are only two races with distinguishing features. Khajiit and Argonian have tails. Other than that, when armored up, everyone looks the same. Especially since everyone can wear cross-cultural armor.
This is a moot point when talking about TES and I guess us DAOC nerds will have to improvise, adapt and overcome or GTFO and wait for Camelot Unchained which I'm sure will perfectly replicate that stale, decade-old design for all 250,000 of us. I for one, have matured since the heady days of 2003 and need more to my PvP and to my games than what DAOC provided.
Originally posted by IselinI’ve been a loyal fan for more than a year but I gotta say, I’m starting to get worried.
Please, are you really so naiv that you think the developers care? You have probably signed a contract by Pre-Ordering or Backing that they can change the content to whatever they want. You have just provided resources.
In a holistic world with a holistic economy, yes, your actions would have been valued and the Developers would do the best to satisfy you. Unfortunatelly, currently this is not the world we live in. This will be the world we live in, in the near future, no doubt. But at the moment we still have much Greed involved in the industry. Greed and Ignorancy mostly. This will disappear over the next years, it has to due to the (if you are already familiar with, hopefully) the energetic changes on this planet.
What you did by pre-ordering or backing is now what you officially deserve: A learning process that is dualistic and not holistic. Meaning the outcome of your pre-ordering or backing actions are either black or white. And since this world's economy is mostly black, you will get black.
I wish you white, but apparently, from what I read, you will get black.
I hope you understand what I mean by this.
And what you can do now? Learn from it and be consequent on your next purchase.
Next time, wait until a game gets released, so you can see for yourself that it is in accordance with your wants and expectations before you become a loyal fan.
Wise words.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
As for the PVP front, it's more of what the alliances stand for and the focus that they are written in-game as to why they even exist. Zenimax Online put the focus on race, deliberately. They're changing that now. Hopefully they'll make the proper adjustments needed in game to follow suit as well.
Part of my point was that, until the NDA drops, it can't actually be established that anything in the game's narrative needs to change to support the unlocking of races. Just because marketing text on the website heavily emphasized race does not necessarily imply that what is in the game did. Clearly they *never* believed it was relevant in the PvE side of things, or they wouldn't have the announced option of playing through "foreign" faction's content with a character after you finish your faction's.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
I understand that lore is important, but if game mechanics prevent people from doing PvE activities with friends who picked a different faction, that adds a barrier to playing that most PvE gamers don't want.
Do you know I was proud to be Horde and I enjoyed it when WoW was vanilla. That was pride. "For the HORDE!"
These days few games have it may be SWTOR you still hear it in the conversations but a lot of games go like GW 2 no real pride being a race or faction.
Look to yourself for the answer.
ZOS is simply allowing more player freedom. You can still play a core race. You can still feel pride for your alliance. You can still feel pride for the alliance you chose even if not a core race. If you feel you need hard coded locks then role play is a foreign concept to you.
This is the key difference I see between players who come from an rpg background and those from modern mmos and other games. The reason for choosing your alliance determines your pride. If it is because you want different racial bonuses or looks over lore and immersion then the fault is with you.
Do you know I was proud to be Horde and I enjoyed it when WoW was vanilla. That was pride. "For the HORDE!"
These days few games have it may be SWTOR you still hear it in the conversations but a lot of games go like GW 2 no real pride being a race or faction.
Look to yourself for the answer.
ZOS is simply allowing more player freedom. You can still play a core race. You can still feel pride for your alliance. You can still feel pride for the alliance you chose even if not a core race. If you feel you need hard coded locks then role play is a foreign concept to you.
This is the key difference I see between players who come from an rpg background and those from modern mmos and other games. The reason for choosing your alliance determines your pride. If it is because you want different racial bonuses or looks over lore and immersion then the fault is with you.
Tamanous you are a smart, rational person and I very much agree with this sentiment.
Then perhaps they should rewrite this sentences and many other sentences on their website:
"Jorunn, of Eastern Skyrim, is acting High King of the Great Moot, but he does not rule absolutely. His decisions must be ratified by all three races in a unique form of governance called The Great Moot."
Originally posted by syntax42 I understand that lore is important, but if game mechanics prevent people from doing PvE activities with friends who picked a different faction, that adds a barrier to playing that most PvE gamers don't want.
that was actually one of the biggest gripes by TES fans about how the game is not TES. The freedom to play any race, with any faction was taken away and was basically going to force everyone that knew each other to play the same races so they could play together.
While fine for DaoC because it was a new IP with no fans, for a popular IP it made no sense, even less because they constantly tried to tell everyone that they had the same freedom as in TES. There was no respect shown at all by developers.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Then perhaps they should rewrite this sentences and many other sentences on their website:
"Jorunn, of Eastern Skyrim, is acting High King of the Great Moot, but he does not rule absolutely. His decisions must be ratified by all three races in a unique form of governance called The Great Moot."
Obviously the change doesn't mesh with their marketing text. I don't think anyone is arguing that point. Marketing text =/= lore. We have to wait for the NDA to drop to be able to have any kind of meaningful discussion about how much this impacts the established lore for the game, or for that matter whether it impacts it at all.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Do you know I was proud to be Horde and I enjoyed it when WoW was vanilla. That was pride. "For the HORDE!"
These days few games have it may be SWTOR you still hear it in the conversations but a lot of games go like GW 2 no real pride being a race or faction.
Look to yourself for the answer.
ZOS is simply allowing more player freedom.
If by freedom you mean the freedom to chose the choices they give you.
I am not a WoW fan, but please don't act like TESO is going to have more freedom. Even by allowing pre-orders to create any race in any faction the game is still cut into pieces where you cant play with or even see those in other factions, you cant go to their lands at any time and you are stuck PvPing in a land behind a wall you cant see.
WoW may have racial to faction locks but you can go to their lands, bang on their doors and kill their leaders.
Eww, I just defended WoW.......im going to go take a shower now.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Well Iselin, it's one thing to complain about what they have done wrong. But it's another to assume that they are doing everything wrong.
The Explorer's pack is a pre-order exclusive. Check their FAQ next time.
So I thought too... until I saw this in the now locked thread (see the next to last answer from "Agent") He's saying the Explorer pack is automatically a part of the CE so an upgrade to that includes it.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Well Iselin, it's one thing to complain about what they have done wrong. But it's another to assume that they are doing everything wrong.
The Explorer's pack is a pre-order exclusive. Check their FAQ next time.
So I thought too... until I saw this in the now locked thread (see the next to last answer from "Agent") He's saying the Explorer pack is automatically a part of the CE so an upgrade to that includes it.
To me it is kinda stupid to offer something to the 'loyal' fans and then say, well, for everyone else, nows your chance to be just as loyal after release lol. Anyway, I still feel like in the scheme of things, whether it was this game or any other MMO, race and/ or factions have never been important to me..skills progression, immersion, classes (in this case, being able to make any class), story, charm of the world, multiple starting areas, etc are what matter to me the most. However, I accept that I'm not everyone and others have a different order of importance, different interpretation of lore, different standard of whats unacceptable versus acceptable when it comes to what a game offers, its just the MMO culture we live in :-). I pretty much see all of these threads "rose tinted glasses, fanboi, haters, trolls, blind faithful, sheep, etc" occur in every new release that comes out...normally the bigger the IP, the bigger the passion. I actually wish they would have stayed with the faction lock, but on the flip side for those that prefer the single player model I can understand both sides.
To me it is kinda stupid to offer something to the 'loyal' fans and then say, well, for everyone else, nows your chance to be just as loyal after release lol. Anyway, I still feel like in the scheme of things, whether it was this game or any other MMO, race has never been important to me..skills progression, immersion, classes (in this case, being able to make any class), story, charm of the world, multiple starting areas, etc are what matter to me the most. However, I accept that I'm not everyone and others have a different order of importance, different interpretation of lore, different standard of whats unacceptable versus acceptable when it comes to what a game offers, its just the MMO culture we live in :-). I pretty much see all of these threads "rose tinted glasses, fanboi, haters, trolls, blind faithful, sheep, etc" occur in every new release that comes out...normally the bigger the IP, the bigger the passion.
Yup. And don't get me wrong, my concern for their commitment to keeping the faction lock didn't stop me from buying the digital CE myself yesterday. I knew what Sage had said a week ago the day he said it and although concerned, that didn't stop me either.
I have an advantage over some others in that I have been in the beta so I know what I'm getting and have a pretty damn good idea whether it suits me or not. The fact that I bought it should say something... something that I will go into more detail about once the NDA drops.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Originally posted by keithian I actually wish they would have stayed with the faction lock, but on the flip side for those that prefer the single player model I can understand both sides.
Hence the trap of using a popular IP, either make it like the IP or don't bother using it. it isn't worth the trouble because you end up trapped with the fans of the "other" design being used while still having to then please the fans of the IP as well, and all that does is FUBAR just about everything because its actually not possible to do.
You may please some of the fans, but pleasing most of them isn't possible the further you move away with that design. And they couldn't have chosen a worse base design than DaoCs, its far too limiting for this IP. Should have either tried to make TES online, or gone with a new IP.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Originally posted by keithian I actually wish they would have stayed with the faction lock, but on the flip side for those that prefer the single player model I can understand both sides.
Hence the trap of using a popular IP, either make it like the IP or don't bother using it. it isn't worth the trouble because you end up trapped with the fans of the "other" design being used while still having to then please the fans of the IP as well, and all that does is FUBAR just about everything because its actually not possible to do.
You may please some of the fans, but pleasing most of them isn't possible the further you move away with that design. And they couldn't have chosen a worse base design than DaoCs, its far too limiting for this IP. Should have either tried to make TES online, or gone with a new IP.
I thought a backhanded compliment deserved one in return. You do occasionally say intelligent things
That part in red is a good description of the tightrope they've been walking from day one.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Right. Too bad that's extremely illegal. Atleast in the European Union. Should they make it readily available you have every right to demand your money back.
None of the promises they have broken have been part of their marketing, but this is. Anyone with even a basic grasp of consumer protection would know that. And this is not an opinion, so don't try to argue with it. No amount of lawyers can actually keep them clear of the marketing jurisdiction.
Ummm. Why is it illegal again?
I didn't see any guarantee or promise that the explorer's pack wouldn't be available post release by any other means.
They don't need to guarantee or promise anything. If you bought a toaster and it said "Sliced bread included!" it would have to contain sliced bread. That's how marketing works. By marketing it as a pre-order bonus and claiming that it will only be available for pre-orderers they will have to abide by those rules.
Or, instead of asking me, you could just google the EU Consumer Protection Regulation 2000.
From the recent CGI trailer it seems that some people from each faction actually bands together for the greater threat than their own conflict with each other which is Molag Bol and the Undead. So it kind of makes sense to me now why they are letting players be any race in any faction including the Imperials since they are main ones that are being attacked by Molag Bols forces.
Well Iselin, it's one thing to complain about what they have done wrong. But it's another to assume that they are doing everything wrong.
The Explorer's pack is a pre-order exclusive. Check their FAQ next time.
So I thought too... until I saw this in the now locked thread (see the next to last answer from "Agent") He's saying the Explorer pack is automatically a part of the CE so an upgrade to that includes it.
The agent misunderstood you. He said you can upgrade to the CE after launch, he then said that you could upgrade to CE and the Explorer's Pack will be included. He didn't say postlaunch. When you ask two questions in one message it isn't easy to reply to both without confusing you.
Next time, ask them "Can I get the Explorer's Pack after the game has launched". Please try to be blunt with your questions. If you ask two, or three, questions before letting them reply you're not going to know which part they answered.
Comments
Do you know I was proud to be Horde and I enjoyed it when WoW was vanilla. That was pride. "For the HORDE!"
These days few games have it may be SWTOR you still hear it in the conversations but a lot of games go like GW 2 no real pride being a race or faction.
I'm all for immersion, but I'm able to make the distinction between a faction and an individual. For example, I was born outside the US, currently live in the US but have no particular pride for either country while I very much support certain countries I have no affiliation with because I like their culture better. So maybe this move hits close to home for me because I'm an individual displaced from a faction and feel that my faction is my choice.
Also, just to mention a nation of devil worshipers would also be a christian nation, they would just be in disagreement about which side of christian mythology they support. Unless you're not referring to "The Devil" - just random devils (maybe Tasmanian ones).
Closest I can think of in real life to the ESO world you're imagining is Israel and Pakistan, and North & South Korea. They don't generally mix, although even in those cases you have individuals who don't support their own faction.
Ummm. Why is it illegal again?
I didn't see any guarantee or promise that the explorer's pack wouldn't be available post release by any other means.
Your "many will argue" is "few" in terms of how many people play MMOs.
You are wearing rose colored glasses and refuse to even notice that I have now said twice that "You can like the idea", you are too focused in protecting due to the butthurt being offered up by Zenimax breaking the race to faction lock. Something I have said should be expected looking at how little respect they have for players.
Open your eyes man, you are arguing against someone on your side, at least partially. I have more against their reason, than the actual implemented idea, and I sure as hell don't like the man due to hid disrespect for his own customers. The move falls in line with so many other lies and distortions given over the last year, things you let slide because it was in defense of the DaoC design.
Well, when you allow a dog to bite people, they will eventually turn and bite you. And, DaoC players just got bit. You know damn well this is going to be the first of many changes because they know they MUST get as many TES fans playing as possible to recoup development cost and get themselves in the black.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Proof you have not played ESO beta PvP.
How many times do people need to be told that ESO =/= DAOC 2? There are no Lurikeen or trolls that stick out like sore thumbs.
There are only two races with distinguishing features. Khajiit and Argonian have tails. Other than that, when armored up, everyone looks the same. Especially since everyone can wear cross-cultural armor.
This is a moot point when talking about TES and I guess us DAOC nerds will have to improvise, adapt and overcome or GTFO and wait for Camelot Unchained which I'm sure will perfectly replicate that stale, decade-old design for all 250,000 of us. I for one, have matured since the heady days of 2003 and need more to my PvP and to my games than what DAOC provided.
Lets do away with Cyrodiil...lets all be friends...
Nope it is no good I can't, it is in human nature to destroy things.
"Death to the Ebonheart Pact! Death to the Aldmeri Dominion! Long live the Daggerfall Covenant...err whats this nord doing with us?"
Sorry been drinking ignore me
Please, are you really so naiv that you think the developers care? You have probably signed a contract by Pre-Ordering or Backing that they can change the content to whatever they want. You have just provided resources.
In a holistic world with a holistic economy, yes, your actions would have been valued and the Developers would do the best to satisfy you. Unfortunatelly, currently this is not the world we live in. This will be the world we live in, in the near future, no doubt. But at the moment we still have much Greed involved in the industry. Greed and Ignorancy mostly. This will disappear over the next years, it has to due to the (if you are already familiar with, hopefully) the energetic changes on this planet.
What you did by pre-ordering or backing is now what you officially deserve: A learning process that is dualistic and not holistic. Meaning the outcome of your pre-ordering or backing actions are either black or white. And since this world's economy is mostly black, you will get black.
I wish you white, but apparently, from what I read, you will get black.
I hope you understand what I mean by this.
And what you can do now? Learn from it and be consequent on your next purchase.
Wise words.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Part of my point was that, until the NDA drops, it can't actually be established that anything in the game's narrative needs to change to support the unlocking of races. Just because marketing text on the website heavily emphasized race does not necessarily imply that what is in the game did. Clearly they *never* believed it was relevant in the PvE side of things, or they wouldn't have the announced option of playing through "foreign" faction's content with a character after you finish your faction's.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Hey, listen!
Races =/= Factions!
Or there would be....10 FACTIONS!
Get it through your thick skulls!
Look to yourself for the answer.
ZOS is simply allowing more player freedom. You can still play a core race. You can still feel pride for your alliance. You can still feel pride for the alliance you chose even if not a core race. If you feel you need hard coded locks then role play is a foreign concept to you.
This is the key difference I see between players who come from an rpg background and those from modern mmos and other games. The reason for choosing your alliance determines your pride. If it is because you want different racial bonuses or looks over lore and immersion then the fault is with you.
You stay sassy!
Tamanous you are a smart, rational person and I very much agree with this sentiment.
Then perhaps they should rewrite this sentences and many other sentences on their website:
"Jorunn, of Eastern Skyrim, is acting High King of the Great Moot, but he does not rule absolutely. His decisions must be ratified by all three races in a unique form of governance called The Great Moot."
http://elderscrollsonline.com/en-uk/game-guide/alliances/ebonheart-pact
make it "by all races", it's good, right?
that was actually one of the biggest gripes by TES fans about how the game is not TES. The freedom to play any race, with any faction was taken away and was basically going to force everyone that knew each other to play the same races so they could play together.
While fine for DaoC because it was a new IP with no fans, for a popular IP it made no sense, even less because they constantly tried to tell everyone that they had the same freedom as in TES. There was no respect shown at all by developers.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Obviously the change doesn't mesh with their marketing text. I don't think anyone is arguing that point. Marketing text =/= lore. We have to wait for the NDA to drop to be able to have any kind of meaningful discussion about how much this impacts the established lore for the game, or for that matter whether it impacts it at all.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
If by freedom you mean the freedom to chose the choices they give you.
I am not a WoW fan, but please don't act like TESO is going to have more freedom. Even by allowing pre-orders to create any race in any faction the game is still cut into pieces where you cant play with or even see those in other factions, you cant go to their lands at any time and you are stuck PvPing in a land behind a wall you cant see.
WoW may have racial to faction locks but you can go to their lands, bang on their doors and kill their leaders.
Eww, I just defended WoW.......im going to go take a shower now.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
So I thought too... until I saw this in the now locked thread (see the next to last answer from "Agent") He's saying the Explorer pack is automatically a part of the CE so an upgrade to that includes it.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
To me it is kinda stupid to offer something to the 'loyal' fans and then say, well, for everyone else, nows your chance to be just as loyal after release lol. Anyway, I still feel like in the scheme of things, whether it was this game or any other MMO, race and/ or factions have never been important to me..skills progression, immersion, classes (in this case, being able to make any class), story, charm of the world, multiple starting areas, etc are what matter to me the most. However, I accept that I'm not everyone and others have a different order of importance, different interpretation of lore, different standard of whats unacceptable versus acceptable when it comes to what a game offers, its just the MMO culture we live in :-). I pretty much see all of these threads "rose tinted glasses, fanboi, haters, trolls, blind faithful, sheep, etc" occur in every new release that comes out...normally the bigger the IP, the bigger the passion. I actually wish they would have stayed with the faction lock, but on the flip side for those that prefer the single player model I can understand both sides.
There Is Always Hope!
Yup. And don't get me wrong, my concern for their commitment to keeping the faction lock didn't stop me from buying the digital CE myself yesterday. I knew what Sage had said a week ago the day he said it and although concerned, that didn't stop me either.
I have an advantage over some others in that I have been in the beta so I know what I'm getting and have a pretty damn good idea whether it suits me or not. The fact that I bought it should say something... something that I will go into more detail about once the NDA drops.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Hence the trap of using a popular IP, either make it like the IP or don't bother using it. it isn't worth the trouble because you end up trapped with the fans of the "other" design being used while still having to then please the fans of the IP as well, and all that does is FUBAR just about everything because its actually not possible to do.
You may please some of the fans, but pleasing most of them isn't possible the further you move away with that design. And they couldn't have chosen a worse base design than DaoCs, its far too limiting for this IP. Should have either tried to make TES online, or gone with a new IP.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
I thought a backhanded compliment deserved one in return. You do occasionally say intelligent things
That part in red is a good description of the tightrope they've been walking from day one.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
They don't need to guarantee or promise anything. If you bought a toaster and it said "Sliced bread included!" it would have to contain sliced bread. That's how marketing works. By marketing it as a pre-order bonus and claiming that it will only be available for pre-orderers they will have to abide by those rules.
Or, instead of asking me, you could just google the EU Consumer Protection Regulation 2000.
The agent misunderstood you. He said you can upgrade to the CE after launch, he then said that you could upgrade to CE and the Explorer's Pack will be included. He didn't say postlaunch. When you ask two questions in one message it isn't easy to reply to both without confusing you.
Next time, ask them "Can I get the Explorer's Pack after the game has launched". Please try to be blunt with your questions. If you ask two, or three, questions before letting them reply you're not going to know which part they answered.