Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Gaming Companies Have Gone Too Far

1678911

Comments

  • JJ82JJ82 Member UncommonPosts: 1,258

    29 pages and people are still trying to pretend that you cant get a game changed as if Zenimax did not make this offer because people complained.

    Just goes to show how bad fanboys are, and why Developers like Raph Koster call them the most destructive type of player.

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • JorlJorl Member UncommonPosts: 257
    Originally posted by stealthbr

    With the recent announcement made by ZeniMax regarding its upcoming title, The Elder Scrolls Online, it has become evident that companies are making use of methods that I personally believe to be entirely disrespectful to the gaming populace that invests money into this form of entertainment. I simply can't fathom how they believe charging $80 is fair in order to experience all the game has to offer, especially considering it charges $15 monthly with its subscription model, and will most likely have future expansions that cost $40. In fact, if they are charging an additional $20 for a new race, what then becomes the point of charging a subscription fee? Not only is this setting a precedent for others to begin charging more for a complete game, it is confirming that content, like additional races, will be present in The Elder Scrolls Online cash-shop instead of being provided as updates for paying a subscription.

    Am I advocating simply not purchasing the game? No, The Elder Scrolls Online has its flaws and merits just like any other title and every factor must be considered when deciding whether or not to purchase it. However, I do believe that unless gamers want $80 (this is merely a symbolic value) for a complete game to become the norm, then at least some form of complaint from the media and from the customers themselves must be made regarding the absurdity of this.

    Then don't play it, let people do what they please with their cash.

  • AkumawraithAkumawraith Member UncommonPosts: 370
    Originally posted by discord235

    get a job, ya hippies :)

    but seriously, I have never heard enthusiasts of any other activity (gaming) complain so much about the costs. In relation to JUST ABOUT EVERY OTHER HOBBY, gaming is pretty damn cheap. Let's say, for example, you pay $80 for ESO and play it for 3 months. The first month is included, so that's $110 for 3 months, or $1.22/day. You can't even buy a cup of coffee for that. MMO gamers are very jaded. And I'm not trying to troll here, I just think we need to put things into perspective. They spent 200 million dollars making this game, that's not chump change. 

    I dont think its a matter of the pay to play model players are complaining about its the lack of any real new content that the developers have rehashed over the last ten years that they expect players to pay for that is causing the gripes.

     

    Think about it, what is EQN, ESO, WS  bringing that is new and revolutionary? Other than updated graphics and a world that has already been seen by many players in console game version rpgs what is ESO really bringing to the table that hasnt already been done?

     

    I have been i guess what many call a "Gamer" for many years.. over 30 to be honest. and I have seen every MMORPG from the beginning and so far this last year I have been disappointed by the big Developers... Then I see Star Citizen and think well its pvp.. but ok ill give it a shot as theres a Wing Commander feel to it... Then I look at Citadel of Sorcery and think... well, they are trying for an AI and huge world like noone else has tried... maybe that could be nice... but those are both a year or more away.

     

    In the near future we have the same rehashed Bull crap that has been in every other MORP for the last 15 years. So really why should we pay more than we would for any of the other games that are pretty much the same?

     

    and dont give me the line that the world of ESO is unique because its from the RPGs ... remember WOW was the result of the Warcraft RTS games.

    Played: UO, LotR, WoW, SWG, DDO, AoC, EVE, Warhammer, TF2, EQ2, SWTOR, TSW, CSS, KF, L4D, AoW, WoT

    Playing: The Secret World until Citadel of Sorcery goes into Alpha testing.

    Tired of: Linear quest games, dailies, and dumbed down games

    Anticipating:Citadel of Sorcery

  • BadaboomBadaboom Member UncommonPosts: 2,380
    Originally posted by Jorl
    Originally posted by stealthbr

    With the recent announcement made by ZeniMax regarding its upcoming title, The Elder Scrolls Online, it has become evident that companies are making use of methods that I personally believe to be entirely disrespectful to the gaming populace that invests money into this form of entertainment. I simply can't fathom how they believe charging $80 is fair in order to experience all the game has to offer, especially considering it charges $15 monthly with its subscription model, and will most likely have future expansions that cost $40. In fact, if they are charging an additional $20 for a new race, what then becomes the point of charging a subscription fee? Not only is this setting a precedent for others to begin charging more for a complete game, it is confirming that content, like additional races, will be present in The Elder Scrolls Online cash-shop instead of being provided as updates for paying a subscription.

    Am I advocating simply not purchasing the game? No, The Elder Scrolls Online has its flaws and merits just like any other title and every factor must be considered when deciding whether or not to purchase it. However, I do believe that unless gamers want $80 (this is merely a symbolic value) for a complete game to become the norm, then at least some form of complaint from the media and from the customers themselves must be made regarding the absurdity of this.

    Then don't play it, let people do what they please with their cash.

    You are correct, don't play it.  When the next publisher tries to do the same thing, don't buy that one as well.  When all publishers start to piecemeal their games even though it has a sub, then don't buy them as well.  Support a game that refuses to do this. 

  • JJ82JJ82 Member UncommonPosts: 1,258
    Originally posted by Akumawraith

    Think about it, what is EQN, ESO, WS  bringing that is new and revolutionary? Other than updated graphics and a world that has already been seen by many players in console game version rpgs what is ESO really bringing to the table that hasnt already been done?

    Should have left EQN out of that. Almost everything in that game is destructible.

    Personally I like the idea of casting a fireball near a bridge and accidentally blowing it up, and its gone until someone fixes it. That places it on a higher level than most games released in the last 10 years just with that one single innovative idea, because its in the entire game world, not just some small part of it like an instanced dungeon.

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Member Posts: 2,198
    Originally posted by JJ82

    Should have left EQN out of that. Almost everything in that game is destructible.

    Personally I like the idea of casting a fireball near a bridge and accidentally blowing it up, and its gone until someone fixes it. That places it on a higher level than most games released in the last 10 years just with that one single innovative idea, because its in the entire game world, not just some small part of it like an instanced dungeon.

    Unless they change their design direction, things that get blown up in the open world won't need actual players to fix them, they heal over time automatically when nobody is around.  They've stated that if you log out while underground after having dug a deep tunnel, and you wait a little while before logging back in, the ground will have filled back in and you'll have to dig your way back out.

    But even done that way, I agree it's a vastly superior system to what we normally see.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • JJ82JJ82 Member UncommonPosts: 1,258
    Originally posted by CazNeerg
    Originally posted by JJ82

    Should have left EQN out of that. Almost everything in that game is destructible.

    Personally I like the idea of casting a fireball near a bridge and accidentally blowing it up, and its gone until someone fixes it. That places it on a higher level than most games released in the last 10 years just with that one single innovative idea, because its in the entire game world, not just some small part of it like an instanced dungeon.

    Unless they change their design direction, things that get blown up in the open world won't need actual players to fix them, they heal over time automatically when nobody is around.  They've stated that if you log out while underground after having dug a deep tunnel, and you wait a little while before logging back in, the ground will have filled back in and you'll have to dig your way back out.

    But even done that way, I agree it's a vastly superior system to what we normally see.

    Hmm, ok. Does changes things a little but still leaves some radical changes in gameplay.

    In an open tunnel one day, next......trapped in an underground tunnel. Better yet, you are about to go back to that great cave you were in yesterday and cant find it because the opening is closed. makes adventuring in the wild much more meaningful if you now have to go digging in random spots to find that dungeon entrance.

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • severiusseverius Member UncommonPosts: 1,516
    Originally posted by Helleri

    That doesn't seem really outrageous to me. I mean titles releasing for $60.00-$70.00 USD that don't have the expansiveness that this game seems to are not uncommon. And, a lot of monthly subs are well over $15.00 USD a month (and are only $15.00 USD or less on entry level or discounted subscription, limited offers).

     

    If  the game is going to actually give us all of Tamriel, that will make it significantly larger then the worlds of most MMORPG to date (I haven't stayed very caught up on TESO info since it's e3 announcement). And, if we have the level of content per game space that oblivion or skyrim has. It doesn't really seem like an unfair price. Also, anything regarding future expansions (especially the supposed price of them) seems highly speculative at this point.

     

    Could the OP provide a link to the announcement referenced  please?

     

    What game has a sub of over $15?  Not counting game companies' incompetence in understanding that varying currencies have varying exchange rates and that 15 pounds is not the same as 15 dollars which is not the same as 15 pesos.  I remember someone had flubbed that one majorly several years back. 

    Back to the original question, what game has a sub of more than $15 per month?  

  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 2,256

    Things i see in this case are the game company try to sell something without show it to they customer.

    While NDA act as shield to cover true face of the product , some "tester that can't leak details " said that the beta are good and they will (or ready) pay for the CE.

     

    It new (not ready , many ready do it before) for me to this kind of business , there are used to be no NDA beta test before the companies start to sell they game to show how good they game are for the customer.

     

    For ESO , they even go as far as mess the game before release just for money , it mean they will (possible) ruin the game after release for more cash if they have change.

    oblivion or skyrim , you own the copy and you can play it anytime ,

    but a ESO when server close or developer ruin the game (possible if you see the way they try to sell the box) , then it mean end. Your favorite game lost forever.

  • Jerek_Jerek_ Member Posts: 409

    I blame players as much or more than the publishers.  Some of it is definitely greed on the part of the publishers, but base game prices haven't increased proportionally to the costs of making a modern game with all the features and voice work and graphics we demand.  

    My guess is that this has happened because the companies felt like increasing prices would push more and more people to piracy and used games, and since they couldn't get the money out of players up front they had to find all these alternative ways to profit.  If we as players had been more open to paying a fair price up front years ago, maybe we wouldn't have created an industry that tries to squeeze more money out of us at every opportunity.

  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 7,885

    You're all living in a dream if you think you can control the market by not supporting this game. This is going to be how other games will piecemeal their games . The amount of money they can make from the Elder Scrolls fans is phenomenal and no company looking at the figures will rue this decision. They will be laughing all the way to the bank while some of you will boycott the games others will have paid for the collector's edition before you can say 'don't'.


    That is the reality people who have an interest or hobby pay for these type of things all the time. Ask other fans of other hobbies how much they are willing to part and you will be shocked. This type of schemes are now going to make a huge appearance in the MMORPG genre and we just wait a year to play or pay .Your choice, that is it though ,"your choice" being the operative words.

  • JJ82JJ82 Member UncommonPosts: 1,258
    Originally posted by kitarad

    You all living in a dream if you think you can control the market by not supporting this game. This is going to be how other games will piecemeal their games . The amount of money they can make from the Elder Scrolls fans is phenomenal and no company looking at the figures will rue this decision. They will be laughing all the way to the bank while some of you will boycott the games others will have paid for the collector's edition before you can say 'don't'.

    Yet isn't it amazing how many things this company changed or added to "make it more like TES" to quell angry TES fans. And this pre-order addition of removing race/faction locks proves that they are in trouble with TES fans because its a radical change to the base game they stated they MUST have right from the start.

    They believed that just having the name on the title would be enough to draw in TES fans, they learned the hard way, because they didn't bother to look at a few other famous IP MMO flops and the mistakes they made. LoTRo, AoC, SWTOR. Didn't make the game for the fans, they just made a game with the name on it hoping fans would like it.

    TES inst just a name, its a play style. One that isn't remotely like DaoC.

    And now, we get to sit back and watch the developers continue to try to be everything for everyone and slowly destroy their own game. I would wager $1000 that heads will roll in less than 6 months. Even if TESO sells 2 million copies because the player drop off rate will be SWTOR exodus high because it did the same thing as TESO. Made a game not for the targeted IP players, heavy voice, sub rate, weak base game offering little to do and one step father in the crap direction of heavily focused on end game that again doesn't target the majority of the IP fanbase.

    some to many may get suckered into it just by the name and not do any research and they will be most of the first to go.

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • JemcrystalJemcrystal Member UncommonPosts: 1,983
    First come first served.  I don't have a problem with a company charging a lot after Beta.  I consider that time should be for VIP status.  But the price should come down each consecutive year a game is in circulation.  I'm the first person to defend poor people's rights but it doesn't hurt us poor folk for the rich to get a benefit.  I don't hate rich people.  Let them up at the head of the line.  They probably worked hard for their money so they need some reward befitting.  It doesn't insult my poor ass any.  Just so long as you get around to serving everyone at the table eventually.


  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 7,885

    Cough..... Cough.... last I heard SWTOR is making money and have a good player base. Don't know how you can consider LotRO as a failure they are still chugging along. Failures are games like Vanguard, AC 2...those are failures.

  • CazNeergCazNeerg Member Posts: 2,198
    Originally posted by kitarad

    Cough..... Cough.... last I heard SWTOR is making money and have a good player base. Don't know how you can consider LotRO as a failure they are still chugging along. Failures are games like Vanguard, AC 2...those are failures.

    Didn't you get the memo?  On the internet, "failure" means any product you don't like, no matter how much money it makes.

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • killion81killion81 Member UncommonPosts: 995
    Originally posted by CazNeerg
    Originally posted by kitarad

    Cough..... Cough.... last I heard SWTOR is making money and have a good player base. Don't know how you can consider LotRO as a failure they are still chugging along. Failures are games like Vanguard, AC 2...those are failures.

    Didn't you get the memo?  On the internet, "failure" means any product you don't like, no matter how much money it makes.

     

    I'm certain TESO will be a monetary success, particularly when they convert to a full cash shop model.  Then again, they may push the cash shop while subscriptions are running to pump both as much as possible for as long as possible.

  • JJ82JJ82 Member UncommonPosts: 1,258
    Originally posted by kitarad

    Cough..... Cough.... last I heard SWTOR is making money and have a good player base.

    And not from EA, but some outside company that uses averages and circumstantial evidence as listed on their site as sources of information.

    EA however sure does LOVE to talk all day about their successes though!

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Member UncommonPosts: 2,077
    Originally posted by Torik

    That said I do own a pair of Sennheiser headphones that cost $200 so I appreciate the difference a pair of high-grade headphones make compared to the cheap stuff.

    Same here. But that's the limit I'll pay for a set of headphones. Sennheisers last so long, the tech will change before they break (previous Sennheisers lasted 5 years), and I don't want to be stuck with a really great pair of cans and the audio format/devices change (I buy hardware that lasts for 5+ years to be worth the price...just like my keyboard is going on 6 years now -- a Zboard. And no mouth breathers I won't keybind 1-9 keys to wear them down. Bad enough $60-80 mice don't last a year due to all the clicking. I came from the generation that overclocked not for epeen, but because hardware was hard to get and terribly expensive to buy. I still keep all my hardware/rigs all the way back to the 286 days including the disks, and yes, some still work to this day...I don't need emulators to play the old games).

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by Jemcrystal
    First come first served.  I don't have a problem with a company charging a lot after Beta.  I consider that time should be for VIP status.  But the price should come down each consecutive year a game is in circulation.  I'm the first person to defend poor people's rights but it doesn't hurt us poor folk for the rich to get a benefit.  I don't hate rich people.  Let them up at the head of the line.  They probably worked hard for their money so they need some reward befitting.  It doesn't insult my poor ass any.  Just so long as you get around to serving everyone at the table eventually.

    Playing a video game is not a right. There is no ethical issue if a company wants to price video games out of the hands of "poor people". It is probably not good business practice, but that is besides the point.

     

  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Member UncommonPosts: 2,077
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Jemcrystal
    First come first served.  I don't have a problem with a company charging a lot after Beta.  I consider that time should be for VIP status.  But the price should come down each consecutive year a game is in circulation.  I'm the first person to defend poor people's rights but it doesn't hurt us poor folk for the rich to get a benefit.  I don't hate rich people.  Let them up at the head of the line.  They probably worked hard for their money so they need some reward befitting.  It doesn't insult my poor ass any.  Just so long as you get around to serving everyone at the table eventually.

    Playing a video game is not a right. There is no ethical issue if a company wants to price video games out of the hands of "poor people". It is probably not good business practice, but that is besides the point.

     

    WoW proves that it isn't the wise choice.

     

    Don't know what they're thinking because brand alone doesn't sell games. Blizzard can't coast in just on their name anymore for example (and it's harder on established IP publishers, as players expect polish and innovation). Same can be said on ESO, players seen what Bethesda can produce and expect the same online (and god I hope with better player models...they were never good at making them. Never had to spend 2hrs trying correct the default face in a MMO before for symmetry. That Lincoln profile just won't do!).

  • NightliteNightlite Member UncommonPosts: 227
    All you tyrants that go off about BRs and kiddies in LFG chats need to understand, gotta pay to keep them away.
  • CazNeergCazNeerg Member Posts: 2,198

    Originally posted by killion81

    I'm certain TESO will be a monetary success, particularly when they convert to a full cash shop model.  Then again, they may push the cash shop while subscriptions are running to pump both as much as possible for as long as possible.

    Not sure why they would ever convert to a "full" cash shop model.  There is no reason to ever stop offering a subscription option that I can think of.  If somebody wants to pay you a monthly fee even though they don't need to anymore, why tell them they can't?

    Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris

    Same here. But that's the limit I'll pay for a set of headphones. Sennheisers last so long, the tech will change before they break (previous Sennheisers lasted 5 years), and I don't want to be stuck with a really great pair of cans and the audio format/devices change (I buy hardware that lasts for 5+ years to be worth the price...just like my keyboard is going on 6 years now -- a Zboard. And no mouth breathers I won't keybind 1-9 keys to wear them down. Bad enough $60-80 mice don't last a year due to all the clicking. I came from the generation that overclocked not for epeen, but because hardware was hard to get and terribly expensive to buy. I still keep all my hardware/rigs all the way back to the 286 days including the disks, and yes, some still work to this day...I don't need emulators to play the old games).

    Yeah, Sennheisers are bloody fantastic, only kind I ever buy for non-exercise headphones.  You reach a certain point, and even if the auditory quality of your equipment is technically improving, your ears aren't registering the difference anyway, so why bother?

    Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
    Through passion, I gain strength.
    Through strength, I gain power.
    Through power, I gain victory.
    Through victory, my chains are broken.
    The Force shall free me.

  • GaendricGaendric Member UncommonPosts: 624
    Originally posted by CazNeerg

    Originally posted by killion81

    I'm certain TESO will be a monetary success, particularly when they convert to a full cash shop model.  Then again, they may push the cash shop while subscriptions are running to pump both as much as possible for as long as possible.

    Not sure why they would ever convert to a "full" cash shop model.  There is no reason to ever stop offering a subscription option that I can think of.  If somebody wants to pay you a monthly fee even though they don't need to anymore, why tell them they can't?

    Agreed, doesn't make much sense. Especially with WoW and SWTOR showing that hybrid systems can do really well.

     

  • kartoolkartool Member UncommonPosts: 520
    If people are still willing to hand over their money, then the business model is successful regardless of how unfair people think it is. If people are willing to pay $25 for a mount in WoW, then I honestly don't see what the big deal is to pay for a specific race or whatever in a game. If you don't want to pay the extra, don't. If you really disagree with the business model then don't give them any money. It's that easy.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by Kevyne-Shandris
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Jemcrystal
    First come first served.  I don't have a problem with a company charging a lot after Beta.  I consider that time should be for VIP status.  But the price should come down each consecutive year a game is in circulation.  I'm the first person to defend poor people's rights but it doesn't hurt us poor folk for the rich to get a benefit.  I don't hate rich people.  Let them up at the head of the line.  They probably worked hard for their money so they need some reward befitting.  It doesn't insult my poor ass any.  Just so long as you get around to serving everyone at the table eventually.

    Playing a video game is not a right. There is no ethical issue if a company wants to price video games out of the hands of "poor people". It is probably not good business practice, but that is besides the point.

     

    WoW proves that it isn't the wise choice.

     

    Don't know what they're thinking because brand alone doesn't sell games. Blizzard can't coast in just on their name anymore for example (and it's harder on established IP publishers, as players expect polish and innovation). Same can be said on ESO, players seen what Bethesda can produce and expect the same online (and god I hope with better player models...they were never good at making them. Never had to spend 2hrs trying correct the default face in a MMO before for symmetry. That Lincoln profile just won't do!).

    What are you talking about? Blizz sold 12+M D3 boxes, and RoS probably sold millions. They go into new areas like a card game, and MOBA.

    May be the innovation is to walk away from traditional MMOs, and do something else (as Blizz has abandoned Titan).

     

Sign In or Register to comment.