People want a mmo as a mid-life crisis? That has to be the stupidest thing I have ever read....Well not really, but it is up there.
I know, rose colored glasses too....We can't forget that one.
Anything but people want to play what they think is a quality mmo with depth.
Hey, I know it is a kickstarter, it isn't looking great for the funding as it is, but even if they get funding, and they can't attract a backer with money, it will not be a AAA quality mmo...Which is what people want. People act like everyone that gives money to a kickstarter is some moron that can't think for themselves. I know my $45 may evaporate, and I am prepared for that, if it happens. If it does, you won't see me throwing any temper tantrum about it. I don't commit or spend money that I haven't thought out the process.
So is your mid-life crisis worrying about what everyone else does with their money, or what kind of game they want to play?
Well just to cherry pick a little bit but there are a lot of reasons they could be closing down these MMO's. If they aren't profitable, why keep them? I really hope that this doesn't turn out to be true but if it is I don't think it will change much. I'm still going to try Everquest Next out and so are you and everyone else. That being said I hope the closing down of those 4 MMO's was to make more room for EQN or some IP that hasn't been on kickstarter.
EDIT: To add to this, Smedley said that he was working on a new MMO that SWG members would feel right at home with. I don't really know anything about Pantheon or SWG but does it seem like Pantheon is what Smedley was talking about?
actually eventhough the original post soungs like gossip. The truth is the thruth.
Verant gave up EQClassic to Sony, then Sigil- Vanguard was gave up to Sony as well. There's a pattern.
And obviously I've seen Brad jousting from his games to Sony back and forth. Eventhough I can concurr that Brad's been consistent with his perspective of more of a hardcore model than casual. My worries is, if it will work this time. I want a sandbox where I can be free and grind. I am tired of running around giving stupid quests in the new models of mmo's give me back the liberty I had in EQClassic.
Originally posted by muffins89 their KS faq clearly states that the 800k is "to get our studio set up and operational". "then we will visit other funding opportunities".
This is the point that a lot of people are missing. Their pledges aren't going towards the development of the game, the 800k is going to be used to rent office space, purchase hardware (and other infrastructure materials) and pay the wages of the current staff and future hires. They are pledging money to help Brad set up his company, that is pretty much it.
After which he will most probably launch another Kick Starter campaign to raise more cash to fund the continued existence of the company while they finally get around to the actual development of the game itself.
If this is true this is against the kickstarter rules. You can not under any circumstance use kickstarter for a business startup.
Check some of the posts that the dude from VR, Ceythos (or whatever it is) has made here. He has mentioned using the money to rent office space, pay wages, hire new people etc.
Originally posted by muffins89 their KS faq clearly states that the 800k is "to get our studio set up and operational". "then we will visit other funding opportunities".
This is the point that a lot of people are missing. Their pledges aren't going towards the development of the game, the 800k is going to be used to rent office space, purchase hardware (and other infrastructure materials) and pay the wages of the current staff and future hires. They are pledging money to help Brad set up his company, that is pretty much it.
After which he will most probably launch another Kick Starter campaign to raise more cash to fund the continued existence of the company while they finally get around to the actual development of the game itself.
This is exactly what he is doing. He has no game. Only concept art and "lore". Every cent raised with his KS will be put towards founding his new gaming studio, Sigil 2.0. NONE of it is being used to make a game. None. Its a scam people are willing buying into because they are desperate to recapture whatever positive feelings they had 10-15 years ago playing EQ.
Agreed.
If you look at the 'in game footage' they have shown, it is all stock standard stuff (models etc) from the Unity Engine store, that has been hastily thrown together to give the appearance that they have a product when in reality it is just something that they have thrown together in Brad's garage due to not having an office, servers and all the reast.
Brad and Co. should come clean and be more clear about what the cash is going to be used for. Sure, whatever is left over will be eventually used to develop the game, but initially it is going to be used to set up the company, and that isn't what Kick Starter is for.
Originally posted by muffins89 their KS faq clearly states that the 800k is "to get our studio set up and operational". "then we will visit other funding opportunities".
This is the point that a lot of people are missing. Their pledges aren't going towards the development of the game, the 800k is going to be used to rent office space, purchase hardware (and other infrastructure materials) and pay the wages of the current staff and future hires. They are pledging money to help Brad set up his company, that is pretty much it.
After which he will most probably launch another Kick Starter campaign to raise more cash to fund the continued existence of the company while they finally get around to the actual development of the game itself.
This is exactly what he is doing. He has no game. Only concept art and "lore". Every cent raised with his KS will be put towards founding his new gaming studio, Sigil 2.0. NONE of it is being used to make a game. None. Its a scam people are willing buying into because they are desperate to recapture whatever positive feelings they had 10-15 years ago playing EQ.
Okay, so now we know you clearly didn't bother to do any research on the game before coming here to post that. Either that, or you did... and you're just being dishonest so you can bash the game anyway.
What most people supporting this are actually longing for is not the game they were playing back then, but the lifestyle they had. I'm willing to bet most Pantheon supporters are in their 30's or 40's, which means they were in their late teens or early 20's when they were playing EQ. Back then, they had very few responsibilities in life. They could play 8 or more hours a day, playing into the early hours of the morning, without having to worry about too many consequences. Now that they are full fledged adults with jobs to go to, families to spend time with and mortgages to pay, their time is not their own. Their lifestyle has drastically changed. They don't want harsh death penalties, long travel times, forced grouping or whatever other nut punching feature makes a game "old school" and "hardcore". They want their old lifestyle back, the one where they could play an MMO all day and all night but now they can't because they grew up and became adults (theoretically). Or at least they want that old feeling, which will have to do since they can never go back and be 20 again and they're hoping this game will give it to them.
Right, because you actually know "what most people long for", well enough to assert it with absolute certainty. lol
Speaking for myself, I want a MMO that's a world again, not just a "game". I want that world to be dangerous, and to be presented in a way that encourages me to explore, challenges me and doesn't put me on rails, guiding me from point to point to point along a clearly defined and deliberate route. I want a MMO that brings focus back to the "we" of multiplayer gaming, instead of "Me Me Me" as it's been for the past decade almost. I want a MMO to be about the adventure again, and not just "getting to the end".
As for people pining for the lifestyles they "had back then". Ugh, that's so wrong in so many ways. Not least of which because it presumes an awful lot about people that you simply do not know to be the case.
It's also wrong because it can be, and has been, proven to be completely false.
I'm an adult, full-time job, less free time to play games. Know what? I still want a game like what I mentioned above. Know why? Because whether I have 30 minutes to play, or 3 hours, I know that the time I'm spending - whatever I end up doing - is going to be in a game world that I enjoy being in, and that whatever content I'm doing in that time is something that's actually challenging me on some level, or at the very least, entertaining me. If I don't have the time to take on some pre-set task with a minimum time requirement, then fine... I'll find something to do that I do have time for. I did it for years in FFXI and Lineage 2. I can certainly do it again in Pantheon.
But here's another example... A personal friend of mine has a wife, a child, a full-time job and all the other responsibilities that go with it. His play time was pretty limited - moreso even than mine. Regardless, in FFXI, he got more jobs to 75 than I did, he assembled and led a group through all of CoP (pre-nerf), Aht Urghan and I *think* WoTG (though he may have stopped playing before then). He did Sky runs. He did Dynamis runs. He did other stuff. All on very limited time. How did he do that and still enjoy himself? Because he set his expectations wisely and reasonably. He set goals that were realistic and achievable with the time he had available to play.
And I know there are others out there in the same position.
Oh, not to mention... there were people who played EQ1 and those old-school games back then, who were in their 30s and 40s and had jobs, families, careers, etc. as well. So your characterization of it wasn't even accurate back then.
Any one, of any age, with just about any amount of time can play and enjoy even an old-school style of MMO - they just have to set their expectations realistically, and find the game/world they're playing in enjoyable enough that they can have that fun regardless of what they're doing. It's a big help when their entire concept of "enjoying a MMO" isn't reliant on "how fast can I get to the end?", as it is with so many these days.
The problem with many people these days who fall under the "I don't have enough time anymore" is that they aren't willing to make those adjustments. They refuse to acknowledge that their changing life circumstances are not the developers' problem. That the game is not suddenly "flawed" because it no longer works with their schedule and on their terms. They want their cake and eat it, too. They want to be able to play the game with less time, but still be able to make the same progress they made when they had more time. They want the games to be developed around their personal life circumstances so they don't have to make any adjustments. That's not only incredibly ego-centric, it's also very unrealistic, and rather immature. Most reasonable people grow out of that "the world revolves around me" phase by the time they're out of their teens. Apparently, not all do, though.
Unless your'e someone who literally barely ever has a moment to partake in some recreational activity, you can find time to play and enjoy a MMO. Yes, even an old-school one. And if you can't? Well, then it's time to move on and find a new form of entertainment that better suits you on your terms.
I agree that something weird is going on - there is definitely a connection with SOE on some level. Ultimately it doesn't really matter though, it isn't going to fund. UNLESS at the last minute SOE picks up the remaining tab for funding anonymously
There is obviously funny business going on. The 'coincidence' of VG getting added to the list of games getting turned off by SOE (after they sent out a massive email push about their All Access pass which INCLUDED VG on it), Pantheon kickstarter out of nowhere, rumors that McQuaid offered to buy it back (with what money)?
I said it in VG forums and will say it here, anyone that would send that coked up clown a dime is an idiot. He even said it himself its for funding the infrastructure. There is no game probably barely an idea. Certainly no plan yet. Other than to have 'force' grouping.
Watching people praise this guy and hype this mess in VG chat the last few days is sick. But its also exactly the goal. shut down 'their' game and have the creator fof that game conveniently announce his new vision'. People actually bragging about sending the guy money. Or theyre just plants to make it look like theyre raising funds there. Who knows?
I just want to see a single one of these kickstarters that have been popping up the past few years release an actual game. All theyre good at is bragging about how much money theyre getting donated and posting a few vids on youtube.
To put it in a wrestling analogy (one geeks can relate to as well I am sure) ALL these guys are like Hulk Hogan. When we were kids and naive and thought it was real they were gods. Now that we have grown up some got a little life experience, watched their lives in reality we see thenm for what they are. or should. Also Hulk Hogan knows about as much about what people want from wrestling about as much as mcquaid knows about what people want from an MMO.
He knows what dinosaurs want. Not the people who actually will spend money. SO I am sure guys 40+ love him, or guys with a brain and a memory have other ideas.
But it really wouldnt take much of a pencil to connect the dots in the OP.
But either way the hype around the internet about this announcement of Pantheon makes guys lauding ESO look like amateurs on how to be a rabid fanbou.
The whole spirit of Kickstarter is to fund an idea. Some are obviously further funded than others when they get started. So the lack of game footage thus far shouldn't be that off putting.What you're getting behind is the idea that a niche game like Pantheon is worth funding.
For myself, there hasn't been a community nevermind a game getting involved with for quite some time. And that's why I chose to fund. Because at the end of the day its about if you like the direction/ideas behind the game, not who's making it. I feel the game and community for this one will be strong.
As for Brad, I think while he is sort of leading the charge, they do have a project manager in place. Games come and go, but inventive thinkers usually stick around. I'm willing to give the guy a second chance.
Lastly, if you want to see some in game footage one of the designers will be on the at 4pm pst today working on the game and showing off the world a bit.
and for those who played Vanguard Saga of Heroes over the last few years,
Salim Grant, the guy in the video with the punisher shirt and Detroit hat... Salim "Silius" Grant.
That's right, Silius is on the team making decisions too.
Remember the direction VG took when he took over? The faction mount quests and the sloooooow updates n no communication.
That's him
Just google his name with Vanguard and read all the interviews where he just blows smoke up people butts.
I am not touching this title with a ten foot pole now.
Yeah, he had so much help and a big team behind him, I am sure he wasn't being told what he could or couldn't say to people also.
To blame that guy, when he didn't have much help is absurd imo. I think VG at one point had 1-2 people actually working on it.
Ya? and how big is the team gonna be for pantheon? 6-8 more people? not all programmers....
When and if pantheon launches an starts "pulling a Vangaurd" is there no blame to be had when we are being shoveled doo-doo again but asked to keep up that sub?
After watching star citizen and elite: dangerous sweep up so much from investment from a publisher discarded genre these money hungry sharks have got be hurting. In their twisted little heads they believe that money, those products, SHOULD by rights belong to their outdated money gouging dark hearts. A lot of games have kickstarted this last year. That is a lot of potential revenue and a massive dent in their own projected earnings.
We have experienced the betrayal of SOE - with some saying Planetside2 and EQ:Next being indicative of the publishers turning on the loyal playerbases and feeding them glittering trash rather than the meaty products they once played. We have EA paying youtubers to sing and dance in their own little marionette shows about buggy, broken unfinished games. Even the almighty Blizzard have only stayed course by regurgitating crowd pleasing trash for their mothership WOW while Starcraft2 and Diablo 3 tread water, one through medicrity and the other through buggy release and bad design decisions.
A deep fatigue and suspicion is what all long term gamers carry with them now. The dog and pony show simply never ends and these kickstarting Indies were like a light at the end of an extremely long publisher constructed tunnel purpose built to keep us in the dark and fed shite like mushrooms. Of course they would attempt to corrupt that light. Their third summer homes in the Basque are under threat here, to them this is War!
So I was expecting that sooner, rather than later, the publishers would suborn the kickstarter process to get their own projects funded by unsuspecting players saving themselves huge amounts of investment money and then sweeping in at the last minute with the GIVE US 80% OR DIE publishing contracts and dance merrily off to buy a new mazzarrati to drive over the 99%'ers that dared threaten their holy profit margins.
I may, though, be inclined to a larger quotient of cynicism and paranoia than the original poster.
You know I am actually a believer in Kick starters, especially those associated with gaming. I always saw it as an indi game companys opportunity to skip the whole publisher BS game. Lets face it, a lot of the time the publishers are the problems with these new releases. "It's taking too long!", "It needs to play more like WoW!", "No, No ...... the majority of gamers like stylized graphics!" , "More cartoony more cartoony! .... etc ...... etc. Publishers screw up games .... plain and simple.
It is why we have 100 carbon copies of a few popular games. Introduce a publisher and the game dream suddenly has to compete with the flavor of the month. Once a publisher has entered the picture the developer has some one to answer to besides the gamer. If you aren't aware of this give it some thought ...... we'll wait. Let me help a bit (Publisher=Investor) ... words can be interchanged in most instances.
Back to kick starters .......... Woo Hoo, Fuq the publishers! We don't need them ..... Woo Hoo. You've gotta love it, we are starting to get some unique and varied games running around. Granted, not a one of them is complete, but they're playable and they have people talking. Now if you were a publisher, what would you do about this? Kick Starter is cutting them out of the profit. Not trimming them back, completely cutting them out of everything. Granted they still have their own studios generally ... but, pffft. If I we're a publisher I'd be concerned. I would rethink some things and act accordingly. I would get some stooge to act as if he were an indi game company CEO and push him a bit to make a kick starter game. All the while knowing if the kick starter succeeded gamers would be paying to make a game that I would eventually buy out cheaply and call my own. Genius ...... the long established publisher gets to make a Kick Starter game.
Now enter Brad McQuaid and Mr. SOE, John Smedley. For those of you that aren't aware, they are buds and have been for some time now. SOE bought Sigil to pull Vanguard from the flames, bought all assets and gave Brad the limited role of "Creative Consultant", for obvious reasons. HERE is some more info on where Brad has been for the last few years ..... working at SOE. (From Wikipedia).
May 15, 2007, Sony Online Entertainment officially announced that it had purchased the key assets of Sigil Games Online.
On June 16, 2010, Brad updated his Blog to announce that he is the co-founder of a new gaming company in San Diego, CA. Some months later, the blog was removed from the website, leaving the website as just a single page website.
On July 6, 2012, Sony Online Entertainment announced the re-hiring of Brad to continue work on Vanguard including its Free-to-Play transition.
On March 6, 2013, Brad announced that he has returned to working on EverQuest.
On September 9, 2013, Brad announced to the world that he left SOE but is still working closely with them, and that Smedley is even excited about this. This news coupled with the string of hints dropped throughout Twitter and various board leads the community to believe that Brad is now working on a true spiritual successor to EverQuest and Vanguard.
On January 13, 2014 the game was announced as Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen alongside a Kickstarter campaign.
I'm sorry but SOE is making this Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen game. Not some new start up company that needs money. Look at the stretch goals for the kick starter ..... are you kidding me. Brad MaQuaid as CEO? Are you kidding me? I am making this thread for one reason and one reason only. So I can bring it back to life when SOE takes over this game to finish it. Why do you think they are cleaning out MMOs like Vanguard, FreeRealms and Wizardry .... to make room is why.
Perhaps the proper response will be "So what" This is what publishers do, they make their investors money any way they can. I just can't help but feel it will be taking advantage of what I see "Kick Starter" as. It is supposed to be an opportunity for an indi company to get their feet in the door of the big boys arena. Not an opportunity for the big boys to make even more money and control the direction of a game. History does tend to repeat itself .......VG
So I will leave this now and bring it up in a couple years after Pantheons fourth kick starter fails them and SOE supposedly buys them out and takes control. Feel free to add to the thread as it will make the discussion in 2016 that much more interesting.
~Hairysun
Powerful points. Let's hope this isn't true and that McQuaid is finally creating the Vanguard he envisioned, because darnit, we need more games like this and less of the F2P nonsense.
You know I am actually a believer in Kick starters, especially those associated with gaming. I always saw it as an indi game companys opportunity to skip the whole publisher BS game. Lets face it, a lot of the time the publishers are the problems with these new releases. "It's taking too long!", "It needs to play more like WoW!", "No, No ...... the majority of gamers like stylized graphics!" , "More cartoony more cartoony! .... etc ...... etc. Publishers screw up games .... plain and simple.
It is why we have 100 carbon copies of a few popular games. Introduce a publisher and the game dream suddenly has to compete with the flavor of the month. Once a publisher has entered the picture the developer has some one to answer to besides the gamer. If you aren't aware of this give it some thought ...... we'll wait. Let me help a bit (Publisher=Investor) ... words can be interchanged in most instances.
Back to kick starters .......... Woo Hoo, Fuq the publishers! We don't need them ..... Woo Hoo. You've gotta love it, we are starting to get some unique and varied games running around. Granted, not a one of them is complete, but they're playable and they have people talking. Now if you were a publisher, what would you do about this? Kick Starter is cutting them out of the profit. Not trimming them back, completely cutting them out of everything. Granted they still have their own studios generally ... but, pffft. If I we're a publisher I'd be concerned. I would rethink some things and act accordingly. I would get some stooge to act as if he were an indi game company CEO and push him a bit to make a kick starter game. All the while knowing if the kick starter succeeded gamers would be paying to make a game that I would eventually buy out cheaply and call my own. Genius ...... the long established publisher gets to make a Kick Starter game.
Now enter Brad McQuaid and Mr. SOE, John Smedley. For those of you that aren't aware, they are buds and have been for some time now. SOE bought Sigil to pull Vanguard from the flames, bought all assets and gave Brad the limited role of "Creative Consultant", for obvious reasons. HERE is some more info on where Brad has been for the last few years ..... working at SOE. (From Wikipedia).
May 15, 2007, Sony Online Entertainment officially announced that it had purchased the key assets of Sigil Games Online.
On June 16, 2010, Brad updated his Blog to announce that he is the co-founder of a new gaming company in San Diego, CA. Some months later, the blog was removed from the website, leaving the website as just a single page website.
On July 6, 2012, Sony Online Entertainment announced the re-hiring of Brad to continue work on Vanguard including its Free-to-Play transition.
On March 6, 2013, Brad announced that he has returned to working on EverQuest.
On September 9, 2013, Brad announced to the world that he left SOE but is still working closely with them, and that Smedley is even excited about this. This news coupled with the string of hints dropped throughout Twitter and various board leads the community to believe that Brad is now working on a true spiritual successor to EverQuest and Vanguard.
On January 13, 2014 the game was announced as Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen alongside a Kickstarter campaign.
I'm sorry but SOE is making this Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen game. Not some new start up company that needs money. Look at the stretch goals for the kick starter ..... are you kidding me. Brad MaQuaid as CEO? Are you kidding me? I am making this thread for one reason and one reason only. So I can bring it back to life when SOE takes over this game to finish it. Why do you think they are cleaning out MMOs like Vanguard, FreeRealms and Wizardry .... to make room is why.
Perhaps the proper response will be "So what" This is what publishers do, they make their investors money any way they can. I just can't help but feel it will be taking advantage of what I see "Kick Starter" as. It is supposed to be an opportunity for an indi company to get their feet in the door of the big boys arena. Not an opportunity for the big boys to make even more money and control the direction of a game. History does tend to repeat itself .......VG
So I will leave this now and bring it up in a couple years after Pantheons fourth kick starter fails them and SOE supposedly buys them out and takes control. Feel free to add to the thread as it will make the discussion in 2016 that much more interesting.
~Hairysun
Powerful points. Let's hope this isn't true and that McQuaid is finally creating the Vanguard he envisioned, because darnit, we need more games like this and less of the F2P nonsense.
He's crazy and has no point. Brad met with Smed to see if he could lease the forge light engine from SoE.. Guess what engine the team is using?? Unity!! If they were working with SoE, he would of gotten the lease on forge light. Think about that.. Why would Brad use a new engine? It certainly wouldn't make SoEs job easier nor the team which consist of Devs who are already familiar with forge light. There is no backhand deal.. If anything I would expect to see someone like trion pick this up if the backers get in and start showing their voice! Back the game.. Even if just for $10. The money is important but the backing is a vote for the future!!
I wouldn't be surprised that in the last week we see a surge in donations that miraculously saves the KS. By hook or by crook, this is going to get funded.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Originally posted by muffins89 their KS faq clearly states that the 800k is "to get our studio set up and operational". "then we will visit other funding opportunities".
This is the point that a lot of people are missing. Their pledges aren't going towards the development of the game, the 800k is going to be used to rent office space, purchase hardware (and other infrastructure materials) and pay the wages of the current staff and future hires. They are pledging money to help Brad set up his company, that is pretty much it.
After which he will most probably launch another Kick Starter campaign to raise more cash to fund the continued existence of the company while they finally get around to the actual development of the game itself.
If this is true this is against the kickstarter rules. You can not under any circumstance use kickstarter for a business startup.
Should tell the guy who pitched Embers of whatever (EoC), as well as kickstarter that.
He closed the company he started with the money he got from kickstarter and is using that money to fund travel expenses to sell his game idea to a studio.
Some people aren't actually giving money to have a game made, they're giving money to people to fund ideas that will get sold to other companies. Kickstarter is a way for people to show that their concepts have a large enough following to warrant funding from established companies.
Sometimes, having a following is more valuable than having an actual game.
And Chris Roberts isn't using the millions he's collected over kickstarter in direct development, he's using it to get his company off the ground through the opening of offices in the US and Canada.
Pantheon will not be made for $800k. If they reach their initial goal on kickstarter, they will probably use that as proof of concept and shop around for a publisher or at least some bigger investors to help them get the game out the door. For the money they are asking, you are not going to get much more than the most basic of games, probably more like an extended demo, and if you watch the videos and read the kickstarter page they say as much.
The problem is Vanguard had to have had a much larger budget and Mcquaid couldn't get that off the ground in one piece. How are they going to get Pantheon made for under a million dollars? Even if they scale it way back leaving out classes and core mmo mechanics like crafting and such, how much content can they even make if they don't pass the million dollar mark? McQuaid states as much that this kickstarter is to get the development team up and running and that development could be very limited if they don't meet some of their stretch goals.
I hope they can work it out, but at the moment I have a Vanguard collectors edition sitting in a box somewhere that reminds me I don't want to pay a lot of money again for half a game. The music cd that came with it was good though, still listen to it sometimes.
The OP is very wrong in this instance. Really can't say much more then that.
SOE is cleaning house so more people will try EQNL/EQN and stay for the long haul. The more people they get invested into this game, the better off they will be.
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
The OP is very wrong in this instance. Really can't say much more then that.
SOE is cleaning house so more people will try EQNL/EQN and stay for the long haul. The more people they get invested into this game, the better off they will be.
I think it's more likely that they dropped the non earners. I highly doubt that SOE is going to close shop on games that are making money, well before they even release their new ones.
Nor is it out of the realm of possibility that Mcquaid is using kickstarter to show that his game idea warrants consideration, and has a follow, so it can be picked up by a publisher like SOE.
Most demos aren't created in the engine that the actual game will be coded in.
Kickstarter to get funding to build a demo in unity, as well as show that his name isn't toxic to the point that no one will play the game. At which point SOE agrees to publish for him, and provide a license for the forge light engine. That's far from tinfoil paranoia, it would be smart on SOE's end. I'm not saying that's what is going on, just that given the amount of money he's attempting to raise, he's obviously not going to make the game independently.
Comments
People want a mmo as a mid-life crisis? That has to be the stupidest thing I have ever read....Well not really, but it is up there.
I know, rose colored glasses too....We can't forget that one.
Anything but people want to play what they think is a quality mmo with depth.
Hey, I know it is a kickstarter, it isn't looking great for the funding as it is, but even if they get funding, and they can't attract a backer with money, it will not be a AAA quality mmo...Which is what people want. People act like everyone that gives money to a kickstarter is some moron that can't think for themselves. I know my $45 may evaporate, and I am prepared for that, if it happens. If it does, you won't see me throwing any temper tantrum about it. I don't commit or spend money that I haven't thought out the process.
So is your mid-life crisis worrying about what everyone else does with their money, or what kind of game they want to play?
And everyone lived happily ever after .......
The End
Well just to cherry pick a little bit but there are a lot of reasons they could be closing down these MMO's. If they aren't profitable, why keep them? I really hope that this doesn't turn out to be true but if it is I don't think it will change much. I'm still going to try Everquest Next out and so are you and everyone else. That being said I hope the closing down of those 4 MMO's was to make more room for EQN or some IP that hasn't been on kickstarter.
EDIT: To add to this, Smedley said that he was working on a new MMO that SWG members would feel right at home with. I don't really know anything about Pantheon or SWG but does it seem like Pantheon is what Smedley was talking about?
actually eventhough the original post soungs like gossip. The truth is the thruth.
Verant gave up EQClassic to Sony, then Sigil- Vanguard was gave up to Sony as well. There's a pattern.
And obviously I've seen Brad jousting from his games to Sony back and forth. Eventhough I can concurr that Brad's been consistent with his perspective of more of a hardcore model than casual. My worries is, if it will work this time. I want a sandbox where I can be free and grind. I am tired of running around giving stupid quests in the new models of mmo's give me back the liberty I had in EQClassic.
Professor Philip
Check some of the posts that the dude from VR, Ceythos (or whatever it is) has made here. He has mentioned using the money to rent office space, pay wages, hire new people etc.
Agreed.
If you look at the 'in game footage' they have shown, it is all stock standard stuff (models etc) from the Unity Engine store, that has been hastily thrown together to give the appearance that they have a product when in reality it is just something that they have thrown together in Brad's garage due to not having an office, servers and all the reast.
Look familiar? https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/#/content/7521
Brad and Co. should come clean and be more clear about what the cash is going to be used for. Sure, whatever is left over will be eventually used to develop the game, but initially it is going to be used to set up the company, and that isn't what Kick Starter is for.
I followed Vangaurd Saga of Heroes drama and remember the fallout.
Brad in any management capacity is a bad idea.
He's an ideas man.
Right, because you actually know "what most people long for", well enough to assert it with absolute certainty. lol
Speaking for myself, I want a MMO that's a world again, not just a "game". I want that world to be dangerous, and to be presented in a way that encourages me to explore, challenges me and doesn't put me on rails, guiding me from point to point to point along a clearly defined and deliberate route. I want a MMO that brings focus back to the "we" of multiplayer gaming, instead of "Me Me Me" as it's been for the past decade almost. I want a MMO to be about the adventure again, and not just "getting to the end".
As for people pining for the lifestyles they "had back then". Ugh, that's so wrong in so many ways. Not least of which because it presumes an awful lot about people that you simply do not know to be the case.
It's also wrong because it can be, and has been, proven to be completely false.
I'm an adult, full-time job, less free time to play games. Know what? I still want a game like what I mentioned above. Know why? Because whether I have 30 minutes to play, or 3 hours, I know that the time I'm spending - whatever I end up doing - is going to be in a game world that I enjoy being in, and that whatever content I'm doing in that time is something that's actually challenging me on some level, or at the very least, entertaining me. If I don't have the time to take on some pre-set task with a minimum time requirement, then fine... I'll find something to do that I do have time for. I did it for years in FFXI and Lineage 2. I can certainly do it again in Pantheon.
But here's another example... A personal friend of mine has a wife, a child, a full-time job and all the other responsibilities that go with it. His play time was pretty limited - moreso even than mine. Regardless, in FFXI, he got more jobs to 75 than I did, he assembled and led a group through all of CoP (pre-nerf), Aht Urghan and I *think* WoTG (though he may have stopped playing before then). He did Sky runs. He did Dynamis runs. He did other stuff. All on very limited time. How did he do that and still enjoy himself? Because he set his expectations wisely and reasonably. He set goals that were realistic and achievable with the time he had available to play.
And I know there are others out there in the same position.
Oh, not to mention... there were people who played EQ1 and those old-school games back then, who were in their 30s and 40s and had jobs, families, careers, etc. as well. So your characterization of it wasn't even accurate back then.
Any one, of any age, with just about any amount of time can play and enjoy even an old-school style of MMO - they just have to set their expectations realistically, and find the game/world they're playing in enjoyable enough that they can have that fun regardless of what they're doing. It's a big help when their entire concept of "enjoying a MMO" isn't reliant on "how fast can I get to the end?", as it is with so many these days.
The problem with many people these days who fall under the "I don't have enough time anymore" is that they aren't willing to make those adjustments. They refuse to acknowledge that their changing life circumstances are not the developers' problem. That the game is not suddenly "flawed" because it no longer works with their schedule and on their terms. They want their cake and eat it, too. They want to be able to play the game with less time, but still be able to make the same progress they made when they had more time. They want the games to be developed around their personal life circumstances so they don't have to make any adjustments. That's not only incredibly ego-centric, it's also very unrealistic, and rather immature. Most reasonable people grow out of that "the world revolves around me" phase by the time they're out of their teens. Apparently, not all do, though.
Unless your'e someone who literally barely ever has a moment to partake in some recreational activity, you can find time to play and enjoy a MMO. Yes, even an old-school one. And if you can't? Well, then it's time to move on and find a new form of entertainment that better suits you on your terms.
There is obviously funny business going on. The 'coincidence' of VG getting added to the list of games getting turned off by SOE (after they sent out a massive email push about their All Access pass which INCLUDED VG on it), Pantheon kickstarter out of nowhere, rumors that McQuaid offered to buy it back (with what money)?
I said it in VG forums and will say it here, anyone that would send that coked up clown a dime is an idiot. He even said it himself its for funding the infrastructure. There is no game probably barely an idea. Certainly no plan yet. Other than to have 'force' grouping.
Watching people praise this guy and hype this mess in VG chat the last few days is sick. But its also exactly the goal. shut down 'their' game and have the creator fof that game conveniently announce his new vision'. People actually bragging about sending the guy money. Or theyre just plants to make it look like theyre raising funds there. Who knows?
I just want to see a single one of these kickstarters that have been popping up the past few years release an actual game. All theyre good at is bragging about how much money theyre getting donated and posting a few vids on youtube.
To put it in a wrestling analogy (one geeks can relate to as well I am sure) ALL these guys are like Hulk Hogan. When we were kids and naive and thought it was real they were gods. Now that we have grown up some got a little life experience, watched their lives in reality we see thenm for what they are. or should. Also Hulk Hogan knows about as much about what people want from wrestling about as much as mcquaid knows about what people want from an MMO.
He knows what dinosaurs want. Not the people who actually will spend money. SO I am sure guys 40+ love him, or guys with a brain and a memory have other ideas.
But it really wouldnt take much of a pencil to connect the dots in the OP.
But either way the hype around the internet about this announcement of Pantheon makes guys lauding ESO look like amateurs on how to be a rabid fanbou.
he`s kick start will work I thinks.
the good thing about kick starter anybody can try but only the good ones make it through.
players just don't through money after something,shroud of the avatar and star citizen works.
The whole spirit of Kickstarter is to fund an idea. Some are obviously further funded than others when they get started. So the lack of game footage thus far shouldn't be that off putting.What you're getting behind is the idea that a niche game like Pantheon is worth funding.
For myself, there hasn't been a community nevermind a game getting involved with for quite some time. And that's why I chose to fund. Because at the end of the day its about if you like the direction/ideas behind the game, not who's making it. I feel the game and community for this one will be strong.
As for Brad, I think while he is sort of leading the charge, they do have a project manager in place. Games come and go, but inventive thinkers usually stick around. I'm willing to give the guy a second chance.
Lastly, if you want to see some in game footage one of the designers will be on the at 4pm pst today working on the game and showing off the world a bit.
and for those who played Vanguard Saga of Heroes over the last few years,
Salim Grant, the guy in the video with the punisher shirt and Detroit hat... Salim "Silius" Grant.
That's right, Silius is on the team making decisions too.
Remember the direction VG took when he took over? The faction mount quests and the sloooooow updates n no communication.
That's him
Just google his name with Vanguard and read all the interviews where he just blows smoke up people butts.
I am not touching this title with a ten foot pole now.
Yeah, he had so much help and a big team behind him, I am sure he wasn't being told what he could or couldn't say to people also.
To blame that guy, when he didn't have much help is absurd imo. I think VG at one point had 1-2 people actually working on it.
Ya? and how big is the team gonna be for pantheon? 6-8 more people? not all programmers....
When and if pantheon launches an starts "pulling a Vangaurd" is there no blame to be had when we are being shoveled doo-doo again but asked to keep up that sub?
I think not.
Im going to join you in your paranoia.
After watching star citizen and elite: dangerous sweep up so much from investment from a publisher discarded genre these money hungry sharks have got be hurting. In their twisted little heads they believe that money, those products, SHOULD by rights belong to their outdated money gouging dark hearts. A lot of games have kickstarted this last year. That is a lot of potential revenue and a massive dent in their own projected earnings.
We have experienced the betrayal of SOE - with some saying Planetside2 and EQ:Next being indicative of the publishers turning on the loyal playerbases and feeding them glittering trash rather than the meaty products they once played. We have EA paying youtubers to sing and dance in their own little marionette shows about buggy, broken unfinished games. Even the almighty Blizzard have only stayed course by regurgitating crowd pleasing trash for their mothership WOW while Starcraft2 and Diablo 3 tread water, one through medicrity and the other through buggy release and bad design decisions.
A deep fatigue and suspicion is what all long term gamers carry with them now. The dog and pony show simply never ends and these kickstarting Indies were like a light at the end of an extremely long publisher constructed tunnel purpose built to keep us in the dark and fed shite like mushrooms. Of course they would attempt to corrupt that light. Their third summer homes in the Basque are under threat here, to them this is War!
So I was expecting that sooner, rather than later, the publishers would suborn the kickstarter process to get their own projects funded by unsuspecting players saving themselves huge amounts of investment money and then sweeping in at the last minute with the GIVE US 80% OR DIE publishing contracts and dance merrily off to buy a new mazzarrati to drive over the 99%'ers that dared threaten their holy profit margins.
I may, though, be inclined to a larger quotient of cynicism and paranoia than the original poster.
Powerful points. Let's hope this isn't true and that McQuaid is finally creating the Vanguard he envisioned, because darnit, we need more games like this and less of the F2P nonsense.
He's crazy and has no point. Brad met with Smed to see if he could lease the forge light engine from SoE.. Guess what engine the team is using?? Unity!! If they were working with SoE, he would of gotten the lease on forge light. Think about that.. Why would Brad use a new engine? It certainly wouldn't make SoEs job easier nor the team which consist of Devs who are already familiar with forge light. There is no backhand deal.. If anything I would expect to see someone like trion pick this up if the backers get in and start showing their voice! Back the game.. Even if just for $10. The money is important but the backing is a vote for the future!!
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Should tell the guy who pitched Embers of whatever (EoC), as well as kickstarter that.
He closed the company he started with the money he got from kickstarter and is using that money to fund travel expenses to sell his game idea to a studio.
Some people aren't actually giving money to have a game made, they're giving money to people to fund ideas that will get sold to other companies. Kickstarter is a way for people to show that their concepts have a large enough following to warrant funding from established companies.
Sometimes, having a following is more valuable than having an actual game.
And Chris Roberts isn't using the millions he's collected over kickstarter in direct development, he's using it to get his company off the ground through the opening of offices in the US and Canada.
Pantheon will not be made for $800k. If they reach their initial goal on kickstarter, they will probably use that as proof of concept and shop around for a publisher or at least some bigger investors to help them get the game out the door. For the money they are asking, you are not going to get much more than the most basic of games, probably more like an extended demo, and if you watch the videos and read the kickstarter page they say as much.
The problem is Vanguard had to have had a much larger budget and Mcquaid couldn't get that off the ground in one piece. How are they going to get Pantheon made for under a million dollars? Even if they scale it way back leaving out classes and core mmo mechanics like crafting and such, how much content can they even make if they don't pass the million dollar mark? McQuaid states as much that this kickstarter is to get the development team up and running and that development could be very limited if they don't meet some of their stretch goals.
I hope they can work it out, but at the moment I have a Vanguard collectors edition sitting in a box somewhere that reminds me I don't want to pay a lot of money again for half a game. The music cd that came with it was good though, still listen to it sometimes.
Not all who wander are lost...
The OP is very wrong in this instance. Really can't say much more then that.
SOE is cleaning house so more people will try EQNL/EQN and stay for the long haul. The more people they get invested into this game, the better off they will be.
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
I think it's more likely that they dropped the non earners. I highly doubt that SOE is going to close shop on games that are making money, well before they even release their new ones.
Nor is it out of the realm of possibility that Mcquaid is using kickstarter to show that his game idea warrants consideration, and has a follow, so it can be picked up by a publisher like SOE.
Most demos aren't created in the engine that the actual game will be coded in.
Kickstarter to get funding to build a demo in unity, as well as show that his name isn't toxic to the point that no one will play the game. At which point SOE agrees to publish for him, and provide a license for the forge light engine. That's far from tinfoil paranoia, it would be smart on SOE's end. I'm not saying that's what is going on, just that given the amount of money he's attempting to raise, he's obviously not going to make the game independently.