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LOTRO is in trouble.

2

Comments

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,027
    Originally posted by keithian
    All I know is that every year in these forums all of you state how horrible the game is or how it should have been done by someone else and every year the game keeps on ticking and every time I go back it seems to have a healthy population. Seems to be a disconnect between what you guys think and reality....as usual. I do agree it could have been much better, but it isn't a bad game at all.

    You have to be careful when making claims like "all of you" as that encompasses far more than you can credibly speak for.

    There is always going to be complaints in forums like this about every game as people tend to post more when they are unhappy about something or have a "complaint" about something.

    Sure populations will rise n fall as older players get bored and move on or decide they don't like the "changes" that happen in every game over time yet at times you can see when  a game is in a downward spiral that is "unusual" especially if you have been playing the game a long time.

     

    Is there a disconnect?  I would say there is but recently it seems to be more on the devs side than the players, keep in mind this is from my POV from the DDO side of things rather than the Lotro side of things.  What many of us are wondering from DDO is if the disconnect is truly the devs fault or is it the WB pencil pushers fault.

     

    For example in DDO the last expansion is known as Shadowfail instead of Shadowfell and with good reason.

     

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,607

    The major problem with them is they are hamstrung by the lifetime subscriber holders. IMO they gave us too much, but who am I to argue. But basically we get everything free now, including expansions. But then again when expansions are 10 bux within a month of release then its all relative I guess.

     

    I was a founder who pre ordered in late 06. Was int he betas, pre release and have played of and on the entire time. But I havent spent a dime of real cash since Moria.

     

    I now some people claim to spend hundreds and thousands in the store but I simply dont believe them.

     

    Now some people will buy every new mount they come out with or even a bunch whatever crap they have in the store. But anyone who plays the game is going to make quite a bit of TP a month just doing that.  I have a little over 6K still and with no expansion coming out until who knows when I will have so much TP I wont know what to do with it all. Just for OWNING the game. Dont even have to log in to qualify.

     

    The two camps of this game are so far apart it isnt even funny. Some guys will say everything is fine. Those are the types who when hey try and log on and the game doesnt exist and the forums are gone will still be on here saying how well Lotro is doing, even after Turbine runs away like a thief in the night again. When I heard them say they werent releasing an expansion this next year I figured they were setting up for another pump and dump. Make some huge 'double' sized expansion which includes all of Gondor and then 6 months later pull the plug, a la AC 2.

     

    Whether the licence is renewed until 2017 doesnt matter. The next expansion probably gets released in late 2015, so they pull the plug early mid 2016, no biggie to them.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,852

    Come on now, They went Free to play. There's no way they are in trouble. Everyone knows that P2P is dead and F2P rules. Right? Am I right?

  • koboldfodderkoboldfodder Member UncommonPosts: 447

    LOTRO was once a pretty darn good game.  It's first year or two you could really see the game had style AND substance and clearly there was room to grow.  The Mines of Moria expansion might be one of the best MMO expansions ever.  Two excellent classes, a massive dungeon, a raid, end game gear and the legendary item feature.....oh, and probably some of the best music on any MMO.

     

    But for whatever reason, few people played the game.  They never advertised the game, ever.  Turbine is a very small company and while they made a stable, good product they had nothing left over to advertise the game or pay those people for the fourth year.

     

    So they had to go F2P, and that was the beginning of the end.  This current combat revamp is just a NGE.  Many classes are so overpowered that it is not even a challenge to play the game.  Captains and other classes when specced correctly can solo content meant for raids....AT the same level.

     

    They made their bed, now they have to sleep in it. 

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 5,645

    It started with the Mirkwood expansion, although that was at least fairly priced and labeled.

     

    I got the Rohan expansion with my free lifer points.  I first went to do the great river content I missed and got bored.  I didn't even bother spending my points on the last expansion.

     

    Turbine is a horrible company with one of the worst forum community managers I've ever seen.  They deserve the failure they've been wading in for years.  Shame on Tolkien Enterprises for renewing their contract.

     

    I think it all started by them way underestimating the appeal of playing as the forces of evil outside of a PVP map.  And no I don't buy the statement that hte license holders wouldn't let them.  Just look at what TE has allowed other licensees to do with the IP.

     

  • GardavsshadeGardavsshade Member UncommonPosts: 907
    Originally posted by Lithuanian
    Originally posted by Onsaboo
    • Right now there's spam threads and porn on the official boards which have been there for ages.
    • Just because no other forum on this planet is/was being attacked by spambots. Also, admins of any other forums on this planet never sleep/eat/go to toilet or kitchen
    • The last expansion was buggy as shit and STILL remains unfinished.
    • because OP thinks expansion is buggy and because there are few bugs, all reported. Also, only OP knows (yet does not share this knowledge) how to finish Helm's Deep
    • There is huge amounts of lag for many players which Turbine refuses to even acknowledge.
    • Lag may happen as long as game is played online. Servers may experience downtime etc.
    • Turbine are consistently lying to its playerbase.
    • Care about any proof?
    • Turbine refuse to make any more group content and is bleeding players because of it; their replacement for end-game content, big battles, are shockingly bad.
    • Turbine said clearly: they investigated player behaviour and players are not up to group content. Look at old regions' group content and you will see one shining word - Trouble. Why should Turbine be making things players do not really want?
    It's time to give this beloved IP to another developer to salvage something from it. Turbine used to be an excellent dev but I no longer recognise this company.

    Overall, yet another "because game does not fit MY genius, game is nonsense, unfinished, devs are lying and Apocalypse is near" post.

    I have been a player of LotRO since beta, and a hopeful player of LotRO and MEO since 2003. I have seen the game and the forums and Staff in good times and bad over the years.

    and right now something is wrong. There is some truth to the OP's comments and observations, and I share their concern for what is happening and why.

    If you want to blow it off as a BS post you are welcome to do so. I know it's a relevant post.

    If you are a corporate plant, and I emphasize "if", then get off these forums and get on the LotRO official forums to remove the spam and porn posts before any further rep damage is done. Do the Damage Control where it really matters.... at the scene of the damage.

  • GardavsshadeGardavsshade Member UncommonPosts: 907
    Originally posted by rodarin

    The major problem with them is they are hamstrung by the lifetime subscriber holders. IMO they gave us too much, but who am I to argue. But basically we get everything free now, including expansions. But then again when expansions are 10 bux within a month of release then its all relative I guess.

     

    I was a founder who pre ordered in late 06. Was int he betas, pre release and have played of and on the entire time. But I havent spent a dime of real cash since Moria.

     

    I now some people claim to spend hundreds and thousands in the store but I simply dont believe them.

     

    Now some people will buy every new mount they come out with or even a bunch whatever crap they have in the store. But anyone who plays the game is going to make quite a bit of TP a month just doing that.  I have a little over 6K still and with no expansion coming out until who knows when I will have so much TP I wont know what to do with it all. Just for OWNING the game. Dont even have to log in to qualify.

     

    The two camps of this game are so far apart it isnt even funny. Some guys will say everything is fine. Those are the types who when hey try and log on and the game doesnt exist and the forums are gone will still be on here saying how well Lotro is doing, even after Turbine runs away like a thief in the night again. When I heard them say they werent releasing an expansion this next year I figured they were setting up for another pump and dump. Make some huge 'double' sized expansion which includes all of Gondor and then 6 months later pull the plug, a la AC 2.

     

    Whether the licence is renewed until 2017 doesnt matter. The next expansion probably gets released in late 2015, so they pull the plug early mid 2016, no biggie to them.

    I am a Lifer as well, and as I feel the game is worth it (more because it's Tolkien's ME and out of respect for the original Dev Team) so I purchase each expansion and spend my TPs on vault expansions and whatnot.

    Not all Lifers are money sinks. Some of us still financially support the game. My wife's Sub isn't a Lifer, neither is my daughter's... just mine.

    As for the game, not everything is bad and not everything is good....  it's just that Turbine itself has changed over the years and so too has LotRO, and the game is far different in some important ways than it was years ago. It how it's changed that makes some happy and some upset.

    Example: Years ago My wife and I and our friends could do our quests together, and if we had to enter an Instance for a quest we could do that together as well.... not so much now with the new content last couple of years. Now most of the time we have to disband Fellowship and run the Instance solo and then reform FS.... and that to me is NOT a MMORPG experience.... that to me is a console game experience. More than anything else, more than even the stupid LotRO Store, this is my major pet peeve and discontent with LotRO.

    LotRO started out supporting both group and solo play, and now group play is being thrown by the wayside. This irritates me and I AM NOT A RAIDER! I am just a lover of Tolkien and his Middle Earth, and I want to enjoy this virtual version of it with my spouse and friends while we play the game and level our characters.... and we actually enjoy some of the stuff many people complain about here.... the virtues, the traits, we enjoy them because we are doing them together, but of course Players that play a MMO solo are going to find the same content boring. That's easy to figure out.

    I would say stop trying to solo a MMO designed for group play... but LotRO is changing and if it sticks around another year or two I am confident Turbine will remove all group content and then I really will have a compliant. The Solo Players will love it though.

  • free2playfree2play Member UncommonPosts: 2,041

    I just don't agree with the general idea that the game is in bad shape.

     

    It's a strong IP and a polished game with more content than you can keep track of. Put a new character modeling engine in as an optional upgrade and the game can carry for another 10 years.

     

  • evilastroevilastro Member Posts: 4,270
    Originally posted by Gruug
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by Gruug
    Don't know what all the doom and gloom are about here. Isn't LOTRO and DDO f2p (freemium)? As such, I thought they were so successful that they could not fail?

    *golf clap*

    Payment models have no bearing on whether a game is shit or not.  DDO has been on a downward slope for many years now since Mirkwood.  Bad content and design decisions drove everyone away, not the cash shop. 

     

     

    I was agreeing with you up until you said "Bad content and design decisions drove everyone away, NOT THE CASH SHOP". My guild jumped out of LOTRO within two months of the introduction of the "cash shop" BECAUSE of the introduction of the CASH SHOP.

     

     

    Sounds like a knee-jerk reaction.  The game was still fine with the cash shop, although as a Freemium game I just stayed subscribed and got access to everything.  I don't have some crazy ambition to get everything for free in a F2P title, I am happy to pay for full access if its easier than piecemeal.  I see most Freemium games as giving a few options:

    1) Completely free trial.

    2) Piecemeal for slow content consumers.

    3) Subscription for heavy users.

    I guess if someone was actually trying to consume a lot of content as a F2P rather than subscribing you might have a beef with Turbine, but otherwise the cash shop is a bit of a non-issue.

    The reason I stopped playing was just because the game became shit.  The new content, if you can call it that, is a joke.  They are diluting the game with gimmicks which are far removed from what everyone originally played the game for.  Mounted combat would have been fine for a few missions, but instead the whole expansion became about them.  Same with big battles. They just have no idea how to progress the game in a way that respects character progression and provides new challenges.

     

  • travamarstravamars Member CommonPosts: 417
    Originally posted by Wiha
    Originally posted by Malvious
    well to bad they got the licence recently renewed until 2017.

    Bad. I'd like to play a true Lord of the Rings game true to Tolkien's legacy. Lotro was even OK for a while but went right downhill after Moria imo.

    That made me laugh...

    True to tolkien's legacy??? Have you even read the books? Or did you just watch the movies?

    If it were true to tolkiens books instead of fighting and killing monsters people would just stand around in groups and sing silly songs until they reached end game, then they would get to fight for a lvl or 2. It would apeal to 12 year olds an younger, like the books were intended for, but i doubt anyone over 16 would want to play.

  • SiugSiug Member UncommonPosts: 1,257
    Originally posted by travamars
    Originally posted by Wiha
    Originally posted by Malvious
    well to bad they got the licence recently renewed until 2017.

    Bad. I'd like to play a true Lord of the Rings game true to Tolkien's legacy. Lotro was even OK for a while but went right downhill after Moria imo.

    That made me laugh...

    True to tolkien's legacy??? Have you even read the books? Or did you just watch the movies?

    If it were true to tolkiens books instead of fighting and killing monsters people would just stand around in groups and sing silly songs until they reached end game, then they would get to fight for a lvl or 2. It would apeal to 12 year olds an younger, like the books were intended for, but i doubt anyone over 16 would want to play.

    Yes I read the books. Like about 20 years ago for the first time. And I still think that Post-Moria Lotro has very vague resemblance to Lord of the Rings title in every form. Middle Earth Online instead of Lotro would have been times better game.

  • NadiaNadia Member UncommonPosts: 11,798
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    Most every major game company has continually improved their payment systems except Turbine. Just my opinion of course.

    i share the same opinion - Turbine has not improved their ftp restrictions in years

  • syriinxsyriinx Member UncommonPosts: 1,383
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    Most every major game company has continually improved their payment systems except Turbine. Just my opinion of course.

    i share the same opinion - Turbine has not improved their ftp restrictions in years

    I was in the minority, but I thought SoEs original F2P for EQ2 was better than LOTRO, because content is king and EQ2 opened most of its content and the gear/spell restrictions didnt matter until endgame.  People argued 'but LOTRO is completely free since you can grind TP", but grinding TP is extremely tedious and time consuming and not remotely fun.

     

    Over the last few years SoE has removed most of their restrictions, and Turbine only creeps further and further into pay 2 win territory.  their model was garbage when it started and its only become worse over time while everyone else's has gotten better.

     

    But the biggest blunder by turbine is subbing doesnt get you everything.  XP lockers are 6 bucks *per character*, thats just ridiculous.  And of course the stat tomes.  And when I play EQ2 I am only reminded of the cash shop when I log in.  LOTRO i am constantly reminded of it.

  • NephaeriusNephaerius Member UncommonPosts: 1,671
    Originally posted by Onsaboo
    • Right now there's spam threads and porn on the official boards which have been there for ages.
    • The last expansion was buggy as shit and STILL remains unfinished.
    • There is huge amounts of lag for many players which Turbine refuses to even acknowledge.
    • Turbine are consistently lying to its playerbase.
    • Turbine refuse to make any more group content and is bleeding players because of it; their replacement for end-game content, big battles, are shockingly bad.
    It's time to give this beloved IP to another developer to salvage something from it. Turbine used to be an excellent dev but I no longer recognise this company.

     Well they're certainly not suffering financially for it.  Just talked to their VP of product design.....

    Steam: Neph

  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,749

    While I'm still not quite happy with HD changes (though 12.2 at least eased and repaired some of the "over-easy" issues), nor like the latest Store additions, however I think the game and the community is still great.

     

    "LotRO is in trouble" says the title. I hope Whiteberry won't mind if I answer that with one of her pics:

    http://toarda.com/t/wp-content/gallery/comics/loahsp003.jpg

    :)

  • ProfGetzProfGetz Member UncommonPosts: 182
    Not in trouble, it's actually doing quite well in my opinion. Been playing off and on since launch, still enjoying it, still having fun. OP, I'm sorry you were unable to find a home here. Best of luck in your search.

    Every MMORPG is AWESOME, until it's released!
    I don't want a game so much as I want a WORLD!
    --
    o·pin·ion –noun
    1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
    2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

  • kevjardskevjards Member UncommonPosts: 1,452

    somehow I think the OP is exaggerating a little.they never said they were not doing group content.they stated they were going to do big battles I,e helms deep etc because it fits in with the story.has for the forums I cant commentate on that.Lag ,well every online game has lag but this game suffers no more no less than any other game.

    In saying that though this game could have been so much more than it is.pvp severly lacking.combat was rather poor but improved has of late.but this game will see it through til 2017.still a great game to play imo.

  • ninjagrannyninjagranny Member Posts: 25

    I have played this since beta i Have two founder and 1 lifetime accounts and have bought collectors or legendary editions of every expansion up to Helm's Deep .  I have 40 toons 10 or so at 85 ( 85 is pre HD cap)

    That's just for info 

    We loved this game and would have still been playing it apart from what they did to it with the Helms Deep expansion , an expansion we had been looking forward to for years ( its such an iconic period of LOTR) .

    I don't mind Big battles but I can understand why hardcore raiders don't like them as they aren't exclusive and can't be learned pixel by pixel .

    LOTRO had the only really original character setup and progression there were literally hundreds of thousands of possible combinations and these could be changed quite easily using normal in game cash .

    Then the dreaded skill trees arrived and everyone I have played with since the game started has stopped playing - kins are dead , raid channels are dead . The skill trees turned an expansive game into the same 3 button mashing of the other easy kids games .

    Great pity , its an old engine but it worked and the graphics are fun but old , what this game had going for it was the style and the ip - now it just as the ip .

    The OP is correct  and its such a shame - they changed too much too quickly and changed the wrong things . Note I still count as 3 active accounts as they never expire BUT I don't play so take any "official" subscribers figures with a sack of salt . My primary server used to have a healthy 1200 at most times recently its been just over 50 . My wife has 2 accounts and also counts my kin has 40 + accounts between them and they count - none of them play since HD .

     

  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,411
    personally like the changes with the skill trees.  Combat is better now for me.  My issue with the game is the fact that is it pretty much single player with end game multi options.  You want to run an instance...good luck it is either a kin run through which frankly are not fun or you sit in que for hours and days.  At low levels there is nothing in the game that really feels MMO.  Skirms are few and far between now for a group bigger than 2 even.
  • SuperNickSuperNick Member UncommonPosts: 460

    It's in trouble? Really?

    Speculation is great, but stating it as fact is not.

    The game is enjoying (compared with previous years) record player numbers, record profits and is going to focus the entire year of 2014 on revamping old content. This means all those old dungeons that newer players didn't get to enjoy will be returning.

    Please try to clarify next time hey, "I think this game is in trouble".

  • mxmissilemxmissile Member UncommonPosts: 275
    Originally posted by SuperNick

    It's in trouble? Really?

    Speculation is great, but stating it as fact is not.

    Please try to clarify next time hey, "I think this game is in trouble".

    In trouble for sure, clarifying for the OP:

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/loadNews/30042/Turbine-Enters-Another-Round-of-LayOffs

     

  • BMBenderBMBender Member UncommonPosts: 827

    Haven't played in over a year so can't say what it's like now.  But I got curi0ous and wandered over to my old stomping grounds and saw this:

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?534986-Guardian-soloing-many-3man-T2c-6man-videos-and-more-)
    tells me all I need to know

    image
  • OnsabooOnsaboo Member Posts: 48

    Am truly gutted about some of the LOTRO staff who've been laid off.

    But, for anyone who doesn't live in some crazy fantasy land this should be NO surprise.  The game had so few devs working on it already and even THEY have been culled. We're gonna be lucky to make it to Gondor never mind Mordor.

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,000
    Originally posted by killion81
    Originally posted by Sovrath

    I doubt another developer would make another Lord of the Rings mmo.

     

    Not because they wouldn't want to, but rather Disney will NEVER let go of those rights.  Of all companies in existence, Disney has done more lobbying to extend patent duration and coverage than any other.  (OK, I may be wrong on that, maybe some other company has done more, but Disney has done a LOT.)  In fact, Disney is one of the companies spearheading the charge for everyone's favorite internet regulation changes, stuff like SOPA and everything that has spawned off of it.

    Heard the same thing.  Otherwise their licenses for Mickey and others would have run out a long long time ago.  They keep getting the laws extended or put on hold by congress.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/10/25/15-years-ago-congress-kept-mickey-mouse-out-of-the-public-domain-will-they-do-it-again/

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • tagostagos Member UncommonPosts: 12

    LOTRO was my first MMO. Spent huge amounts on content and TP.  Helms Deep and the Skill Tree system makes it one that a kitten walking over the keyboard can solo tank 6 man instances.  Completely challenge free. Completely the same phoned in 'kill 10 of this, gather 10 of that' nonsense quests. 

    Stroll to L95 with the same 3 button rotation every other member of your class is using. Sure - that's fun.

    Big Battles? Can't play your class? Give me a break.

    I've gone from a well-paying customer to ex-paying customer. 

     

     

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