What you are seeing is total number of accounts and active subscriptions measured by MMOdata. It is the best data we have, short of the data the publishers themselves have. Right now, the total MMO market is about at the levels it was at in late 2008/early 2009.
This doesn't bode well. There are more people online today than in 2008/2009, yet the total numbers in these games are decreasing.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
The decline is a loss of heart and soul, there is no more spirit. It doesn't matter if 6 and a half billion or so (the entire human race) plays mmos or not, the fact is that mmos died since Vanguard was released in its buggy state, and now all of them refuse to innovate....
Yes, I totally agree with this...I have been craving for a new mmorpg that I will enjoy as much as I have enjoyed some previous mmos I played, but no game has captivated me in a long time. It seems the problem now is that many companies are just releasing as many mmos as they can, all copies of each other. I was really excited about GW2, but it was a huge disappointment. Hopefully some of the upcoming titles (Wildstar, EQ-next, Archage) will be a step forward.
'Why can't I re-capture the first time experiance of my youth??'
Because you aren't as young, and it isn't your first time anymore.
Now if you want to try it anyway, you'd better start supporting those games/developers who are trying to use the mechanics/atmosphere that you prefer. Because if they can't even support themselves profitably, then those types of games won't continue to get made.
I don't think they'll ever measure up to memory, but that's the road you need to travel, if you want to try....
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Mmorpg dieing? Changing might be a better word , if cell provider and hardware maker could speak to their programmer so they stop being stupid next gen mobile would already be here ,programmer stupidity? OK on a nexus 4 if for example you reset APN to default (any have kids playing on their n4 ?)it revert to LTE setting ! Cheer you say ,ROFL what LTE Google disconnected LTE but T-Mobile doesn't know this ,so you are with a hspa+ using android 4.4.2 but Google reverted you to nexus 5 setting which isnt a good idea on a n4 . left hand not speaking to right hand .Google engineer are so busy finding windows flaw that they don't have timwe to fix their own .ms might need to help Google .ROFL!so bottom line ? Nope mkorpg are triving the issue is people can't play because too many engineer and programmer are busy lobbying to be bothered about doing their own job properly
I suppose what keeps people coming back is different from person to person. For me it is character progression to a large degree.
Even though it isn't an MMORPG I will use PoE as an example that manages to suck my back and keep me coming back. The character progression is basically 2 things, gear and their passive skill tree. Loot drops are such that there is always a chance to get something awesome, and it manages to keep things exciting, but even when you don't get something awesome you get mats that can be used for another chance at getting something awesome or making something better. The passive skill tree gives you a lot of freedom, but your choices do matter. I like that if you want to have a decent character you actually have to put some thought into it. I like that when I level up I feel like I am making progress towards my goal/planned build. I like that you can't just reset everything and do it over whenever you feel like it. It means that I have an incentive to start a new character and try something completely new. It is a time sink, but it is one I enjoy as opposed to go kill 20 boars.
Compare this to your WoW type MMORPG. Often the character progression systems are much simpler and shallow, can be reset on a whim. It feels like your choices don't have much meaning because they can just be changed whenever you feel like it. Other players of the same class feel more or less exactly the same. Which gear is the best is predetermined, as is where you go and what you have to do to get it. When loot drops it isn't particularly exciting unless you need loot from that particular encounter and even then it doesn't feel exciting so much as relief(arrrgh finallly).
Story and quests can provide a different kind of progression in the sense of seeing and doing new things, but tend to be very short lived and hence you need a lot more of this kind of content to keep people interested.
I think a game doesn't have to do something revolutionary to succeed. It just has to do the things it does well. Most MMORPGs have these systems just because they are supposed to, and it doesn't feel like much time has been spent making them feel special but instead just made to fit a predetermined checklist of features. It feels like we have time sinks because we need time sinks instead of having features that are fun that just happen to provide a time sink because people want to keep coming back and use them. It feels like character specialization and customization have disappeared from MMORPGs when for many people these systems are a major defining feature of tradtional RPGs.
Youtube is partly responsible for killing mmo's too.
Back in the day if you wanted to see a spell, an effect, a place, etc. you had to get there in the game. You had to do it in the game. It made the moment special. These days, the fact that you can see everything with a click detracts from that.
Another way youtube is killing these games. Back in the day, if someone needed information, the easiest way was to ask people in game. This naturally created a lot of friendly social interaction. And gave experienced players a certain level of automatic respect.
Now... people spend as much time on youtube watching tutorials, and getting information as they do in the games. By the time they actually play the game, they've already seen everything. There are not as many of those fun mistakes. That sense of adventure and exploration.
It is important to distinguish artistic decline from financial decline. A game could be doing one but not the other.
The MMO genre is not in financial decline. More companies may be competing for the pot, but the pot itself is not shrinking.
Nor is the MMO genre in obvious artistic decline. Successful, innovative MMOs have always been few and far between. The MMO genre is full of derivative copies of what is successful, but that's true of every genre I can think of. If a vampire novel sells, people will churn out vampire novels.
Like a lot of posters in this thread, I do find MMOs too samey for my tastes. The public in general, on the other hands, seems to be getting just what it wants.
The problem with MMORPGs is people only want MMO's and don't give a rats arse about RPGing.
Games like Ultima Online were outstanding in their prime not because of the game mechanics, (or lack of) but because people/guilds created a really fun place to hang out, and interact, and all within rules they placed upon themselves as role played characters in their world. They took ownership of the world.
The rise in bigger and better graphics fed the MMO style of leveling like a maniac and the demise of RPGIng.
The RPG is still available in the current MMOs , all you need is a group with the perseverance to not go into "cheat" mode and a little imagination.
EVERY SINGLE MMORPG HAS SOME FLAWS --> GW2-PVP/Bores AION/Bots, Overly Grindy, Very old interface/combat system
Tera/no content, town afk dungeon game, Neverwinter..all good games nothing more ,dont want to name 10-20 others
It is either outdated graphics, bad quest/pvp system, bad interface ,or even bad community which is not a game problem but still impacts it like in League of Legends
+1
If anyone is saying they are enjoying mmorpg, its either short-termed untill they go through its content, or they have
low standards, i personally am settled with POE, Planetside 2 and League of Legends/Dota for continuous play so far
MMORPGs in decline? well if that's true then good riddance. mmos are terrible games and have always been terrible games
the only reason to play one is because of the community, other than that they are a poor excuse for a game
Well then, since current game mechanics don't really favor the development of a good community these days, (outside of any small clique/guild/social circle you may set up) then there's probably no reason to play them at all then.
I actually have enjoyed playing MMORPG's over the years, though have grown quite bored of the current popular designs and am hoping this next wave of indie driven change will result in a game or two that I'll enjoy.
In the meantime I've decided to go back to EVE for a few months, and when ESO releases consider playing it just for the RVR factor. (besides, haven't bought a new MMO for myself since 2012)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The MMORPG genre is not declining, it is thriving. This is why you are seeing such large emphasis on the idea of instant gratification and non stop hand holding. The days of deep game play and meaningful content is over friends. MMORPG's have officially hit 'mainstream'.
Perhaps this is why you see such desperation of the people throwing money at these relics on kickstarter. They are wishing with all their might (Bless their hearts) that a developer will come along and give them that deep meaningful MMORPG they once had, but it's not going to happen.
Originally posted by Lobotomist Clap , clap ! ... Always great editorials, Adam !
In Agreement! <clap> <clap>
What I see is that players who did NOT like the RPG aspect, did not play MMORPGs. As the RPG aspect gets slimmer and near extinction, more and more players (still not liking the RPG aspect) flock to MMOs now.
It is evidenced by the attitude that "old MMORPGs were grinds JUST to get keep you playing - and paying." These new players just do not get that some players actually enjoyed the old gameplay. When I was playing EQ and CoH, I never once thought, "Gee, looks like I'll have to sub another month to accomplish this goal." Never. Once.
What I did think about was "I can not wait to get back into the game" after logging out. "What will do once I go log back on?" Player interaction covered more than swords, maces, daggers, bows, and spells.
Agreed that MMORPGs are on the decline. MMO<add 3 letters here> are on the rise. Virtual Worlds. Players today have no need of them, other than how it affects their enjoyment of fighting. Is there a tree or rock I can dodge behind? Most virtual worlds are too big and having to "walk/run" all that way is "boring!" Who cares about the other players, other than how they can help me get to my end-game faster.
I raise my hand to be counted in the "used to enjoy old MMORPGs, but sitting out the genre now."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I don't think MMOs are in decline, they just feel stagnant to oldschool players because the themeparks have gotten bigger, fancier and a few new rides, but nothing really groundbreaking. I don't think excessive hand-holding is killing the genre either but interestingly Eve Online has something like 500k subscribers and it's one of the hardest games to get into.
Originally posted by DamonVile Market by Segment in 2013 Consoles remain the highest revenue generating platform, with $30.6 billion (-1% y-o-y) equal to 43% of global games revenues. This includes all DLC spend and business-to-consumer second-hand trade. Traditional PC gaming (downloads and boxed) contracts slightly to $6.0 billion (-7% y-o-y), but this is offset by 14% year-on-year growth for MMO games, totaling $14.9 billion. Game revenues generated by tablet and smartphones will gross 18% of the global games market, surpassing $12bn, which is roughly double the amount spent on games for handheld consoles.Read more at http://www.newzoo.com/press-releases/newzoo-announces-new-report-and-projects-global-games-market-to-grow-6-to-70-4bn-in-2013/#hP49r7qRPuLeAZ5c.99
As always, a study brings up more questions than answers. I also find it odd that a "Global Gaming Revenue" report is used to show the health and welfare of the MMORPG specific segment.
1) How much has the total population of the world grown in the same time-frame? 2) How much has internet access grown in the same time frame? 3) How much has the cost of personal computers declined in the same time frame? 4) How much more money is in the world today? What about inflation rates? 5) How does MMO growth compare with other entertainment industries? 6) Has the development of consoles in this same time frame influenced MMO growth?
I don't dispute that MMOs make more money and have more players. That, as you've shown, is a fact. What I wonder about is what exactly this means. Stats, after all, are all about "presentation and interpretation", right?
Do these numbers mean that genre is hale and healthy? Business-wise, of course! Quality-wise is a point of contention
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by BadSpock I guess you are writing to your intended audience, the rose colored glasses / teary-eyed nostalgia chasers who seem to overpopulate this site.
So, you HATED every aspect of playing UO? You never enjoyed your time there? If you did enjoy any bit of those old games, you must have "rose colored glasses" in place as you accuse others having.
I am just as tired of the canned response of "rose colored glasses" as you are of hearing how great older MMORPGs were.
If ANYONE actually enjoyed the gameplay of old MMORPGs, they must be crazy, right? How on earth can anyone "enjoy" something so utterly terrible, right?
Please stop the "rose colored glasses" crap. Not EVERYONE who played old MMORPGs hated every minute they logged in, as you seem to believe. I actually play on an EQ emulator every now and again. What keeps me from playing more often is the lack of any semblance of low level community. The mechanics are still just as fun (or frustrating) as before.
Imagine that. Someone is actually enjoying playing an OLD MMORPG! And enjoying it today...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by Lobotomist Clap , clap ! ... Always great editorials, Adam !
In Agreement! What I see is that players who did NOT like the RPG aspect, did not play MMORPGs. As the RPG aspect gets slimmer and near extinction, more and more players (still not liking the RPG aspect) flock to MMOs now. It is evidenced by the attitude that "old MMORPGs were grinds JUST to get keep you playing - and paying." These new players just do not get that some players actually enjoyed the old gameplay. When I was playing EQ and CoH, I never once thought, "Gee, looks like I'll have to sub another month to accomplish this goal." Never. Once. What I did think about was "I can not wait to get back into the game" after logging out. "What will do once I go log back on?" Player interaction covered more than swords, maces, daggers, bows, and spells. Agreed that MMORPGs are on the decline. MMO are on the rise. Virtual Worlds. Players today have no need of them, other than how it affects their enjoyment of fighting. Is there a tree or rock I can dodge behind? Most virtual worlds are too big and having to "walk/run" all that way is "boring!" Who cares about the other players, other than how they can help me get to my end-game faster. I raise my hand to be counted in the "used to enjoy old MMORPGs, but sitting out the genre now."
Very much agreed! I used to think at work what will i do in-game when i get off and home. If only these new people knew what they missed..
Originally posted by Frigiddeath I rarely respond to articles like this, but I felt it would be a good excuse to get my current feelings about MMOs off my chest. The premise of the article is only half correct. MMOs have gotten more boring in the recent years, but not because game devs have gotten worse, but mainly because MMO players are some of the whiniest people on planet Earth. No game is good enough, and players demand the world. It is impossible to make most MMO players happy, in any way. Everything is a WoW clone, or a cash grab, or "name reason #100 while this game suck and will be F2P in a month". Seriously, it is not the game, it's you. Does not matter if newer MMOs are better built, has more content, and are overall better games. Let's pretend that EQ, UO, and Vanilla WoW were magical. Let's forget the reason why most of us did random things in those game; because there was nothing else to do. There were not better communities, just people who were bored, because there was nothing to do in those games. Seriously, vanilla WoW, for most people, was doing UBRS over and over again or the same BGs for days. Maybe a few tribute run in DM for shits and giggles in between sitting on top of Org bank running in circles. That is why the best MMO stories are not about playing the game, but random shit that happened with the people around us in the game. There was plenty of bitching back then too, but people actually were excited when things changed. There is a reason patches from 1.6 to 1.13 were nothing but class balancing in WoW. Back then, people eagerly awaited to see how x class would change, and then blew up the forums about it. Did people say the game was DOOOOOOMMMED!!!, not really. If you had a similar thing happened today, it would lead to a jihad, with people going "See, I told you this game was dumpster trash, F2P in a week". Seriously, my problem with MMOs are not the games, but the people. Most players, no matter how good they are, suck.Let's look at the Wildstar whole bruhaha over breast size. First, it was people bitching they were too large. Then the dev were like, ok we can change that. Then it people bitching that it was just caving to "feminazi" and were terrible people for doing it. Let's remind are self, this entire conversation is about the size of fictional characters breast. Not game play concerns or balancing issues, BREAST SIZE. Then you hear the other crap line "They just should have added in sliders." This sounds like a reasonable request, but really, who the fuck cares. 99% of people would barely even adjust them. Let's not forget that art style is important, because random person X really wants to make a 300 pound Chua just as a joke, and will never actually play them. No, they just want to option to do it, even if they will never probably use it. Please dev, spend count hours and money reworking the game, so I can have a feature I will seriously never use in a meaningful way. Most people don't care about it, and it just messes with how the art style of the game is supposed to look. While we are at it, let's petition Nintendo to shave Mario stache and force him to lose 30 pounds, because it just promote the negative stereotype of Italian plumbers, or at least give us the option to do it in game. I mean, dev should be giving everyone options that are stupid and in no way affect game play.While I agree a lot of MMOs have come out being not ready for prime time, that does not make them really any different from games in the past. One of the strengths of MMOs is that they can always be changed, updated, and improved on. They don't have to start out as the "greatest game ever", just a game with an actual direction. For all of the comments of "look at SWTOR", from what I hear most people think the game is in a much better spot today than launch. There are more things to do and it plays a lot better. Some complain about the monetary changes since going F2P, but that is an entirely separate issue. There are true dumpster game, like Scarlet Blade or other game made just to make money, but anyone with an IQ of 10 or a non prepubescent boy will notice within 10 seconds of seeing an ad for it.Long story short, it is not that MMOs have gotten more boring, but MMO players have become nothing more than a group of self-entitled whiners, demanding way more than any game dev team can do. I will bet money right now, by the end of the year, people will be doing nothing about how EQ:N and Star Citizen are dumpster game. They seem great right now because you don't know anything about them. There no real game play footage and all you have to go off of is the concept of the game. When players' illusion of what the game is meets the actual reality of what the game is, this has been the normal reaction for the last 10 major MMOs. Sadly, these games are not going to get any better treatment, no matter how good they actually are.
So, you come out of "lurker mode" to post this load of crap?
Paragraph 1: I have changed? Possibly. I am more "MMO savvy" than I was when I first logged into EQ. That really does not mean crap. Name me one recently released MMO that has the same type of gameplay that EQ had, back in the day.
Paragraph 2: New MMOs are "better built" with "more content" and "overall better games"?
"Better games" is an opinion, not a fact.
Exactly HOW are these new monstrosities "better built?" Do you mean "streamlined" so that getting to end-game is the most efficient?
"More content?" Name me one recently released MMO that has 12 races (at launch) choosing from 14 classes (at launch) with 14 starting cities (at launch) on 3 continents (and a moon in a later expansion) with 2 or 3 more continents added in expansions with 3 "otherworldly planes" (at launch). Just one. This was done in 1999. Going on 15 years later, what do we have?
Paragraphs 3. 4, and 5:: I actually agree with your assessment here. One thing that has not changed in MMOs is the complaining. It was rampant back then and still is today. Breast size in Wildstar is ridiculous. So what about pixelated breasts?
Paragraph 6: Agreement here, too. There has not been ONE MMO ever launched that did not have troubles. Not one. A good launch is one that has the fewest bugs (not bug-free) as possible. As you said, MMOs have the luxury of always evolving and being able to fix problematic issues.
Paragraph 7: Anyone who plays games is a "self-entitled whiner." Anyone who says differently is lying. Why on earth would I (or you or anyone else) rant and rave about a game I (You, or they) have no desire to play? We ALL want games that *we* find fun and enjoyable. I guess voicing opinions is labeled "self-entitled whining" now...
"Games have not changed, YOU have." What a load of crap! Tell me with a straight face that MMOs have NOT changed in their gameplay in the past 10 or so years. I will laugh right along with you if you do. The proof that they have changed is this very discussion we are having. If they have NOT changed, why do so many gamers "long for the old days?" Why do so many new MMO gamers flock to play them now, instead of playing them yesteryore?
Now, the "newness" of playing an MMO will never be the same. That is lost for ever. You can be innocent for only so long. I feel for the players seeking this experience again.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by Maquiame Brad "Everquest" McQuaid's new mmoRPG, I certainly hope you and your girl are investing friend!
I am getting so sick of this reply. IF it ever launches, I may give it a try. What is put down on paper hardly ever gets to production without changes.
I hear that they are selling flying cars, too. They may even be a reality before you're dead.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
This particulate website has always pushed the image that the genre is fine. I think maybe finally the tide is so strong they're going to try to pander to what has become the majority. This would have been a bold statement about 6 years ago. Now it's just "Well.. duh."
The MMORPG market has been in a nose dive since the end of 2003. It let up briefly with Vanguard and even more briefly with GW2, but that's about it.
Take away WoW, and maybe EVE, and the picture is vastly different. MMOs have never been mainstream, and never will be. The genre doesn't rise and fall. It just smoulders and sometimes sparks.
how do you define mainstream?
Within the majority. Which is solo or co-op console based gaming. GTA, Call of Duty, etc. Anecdotaly, in my social circle, im the only one I know that plays MMOs. But all of them that plays any games, owns a console.
Originally posted by Maquiame Brad "Everquest" McQuaid's new mmoRPG, I certainly hope you and your girl are investing friend!
I am getting so sick of this reply. IF it ever launches, I may give it a try. What is put down on paper hardly ever gets to production without changes.
I hear that they are selling flying cars, too. They may even be a reality before you're dead.
I'd rather invest in something by someone who made two games I liked instead of sit here and complain.
Play games not forums
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
Originally posted by BadSpock I guess you are writing to your intended audience, the rose colored glasses / teary-eyed nostalgia chasers who seem to overpopulate this site.
So, you HATED every aspect of playing UO? You never enjoyed your time there? If you did enjoy any bit of those old games, you must have "rose colored glasses" in place as you accuse others having.
I am just as tired of the canned response of "rose colored glasses" as you are of hearing how great older MMORPGs were.
If ANYONE actually enjoyed the gameplay of old MMORPGs, they must be crazy, right? How on earth can anyone "enjoy" something so utterly terrible, right?
Please stop the "rose colored glasses" crap. Not EVERYONE who played old MMORPGs hated every minute they logged in, as you seem to believe. I actually play on an EQ emulator every now and again. What keeps me from playing more often is the lack of any semblance of low level community. The mechanics are still just as fun (or frustrating) as before.
Imagine that. Someone is actually enjoying playing an OLD MMORPG! And enjoying it today...
You know, I investigated UO, EQ, SWG, EVE, even WoW, and decided that the negatives outweighed the positives. For me. This kept me from playing MMORPGs for years. So, the enjoyment, for me, was not there.
For other folks, sure. But....if you all don't support games that try to harken back to this old style, they won't continue to get supported or made. If the developers can't make a profitable enough game to live on, they won't build it, and you folks won't get to come. Now I like aspects of all these worlds: The no-class skill sets of UO, the economies of SWG and EVE, the depth of the virutal world in EQ. Those are attractive, but they weren't enough to offset other problems. Given a reasonable game design, I'd happily try out something that is built on old school principles. But no rosey glory for me.
Your comment on the low level community is telling though. IF you can't get enough folks to support these things.....
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Yeah read the article and like almost everything on the internet its an opinion based on observation. I'd say MMO's are seemingly on the decline because of the lack of quality MMO's out there.
We've had quite of few yrs of this F2P item mall crap which is more cash grab than quality MMO. Also games with very very few players being categorized as an MMO which they'd be more of an MO or Co-OP game.
The F2P "make any and everything, give in game purchases, then says its part of the MMO genre" has given us buttloads of crap. If anyones really paying attention you can see the hoards of players waiting at the gates of each big dev true MMO hoping it delivers the massive fun we had in UO, EQ, and WoW.
Rift is out there but its just not doing it for alot of us, Eve is out there and its not doing it for alot of us, WoW is still out there and now no matter what they add it still feels like "this has been done, ive done this before"
Like a fool i waited at the gates of SWTOR and got burned, like an idiot i waited at the gates of Planetside 2 thinking i was gonna get that fun factor i had in Planetside 1..didint happen. Hopefully i'm not being a foolish idiot by waiting for Wildstar to deliver.
Side note i watched GW2, Tera and FFXIV from the sidelines..not wasting anymore money.
So yeah you can honestly say MMO's are on the decline because..theyre arent any real MMO's out there. First letter being Massive. Massive because a LARGE number of players think the thing is fun and worth shoveling money into.
Darn it. Well, investigating and playing are 2 different animals. Um i jumped in UO head first back in the 90's and i enjoyed every bit of having to watch my back when i left town.
I personally avoid rating or judging an MMO if i havent really played it. Reason 1 why i'll never take a magazine or website review of an MMO seriously. 15 mins of play and you can rate it??? nope , nope , nope.
I dipped my big toe in EQ way back when, didnt like it personally but theres no way i have the experience to say its bad or list the negatives. Those negatives are an opinion.
Being a 5 yr UO vet, before they screwed it up by making pvp and no pvp servers, it still cracks me up to this day that they call the safe, no penalty pvp in these games ..pvp..its just dueling..its all just dueling. Staged pvp..jeez its still dueling
Comments
The decline is real...
What you are seeing is total number of accounts and active subscriptions measured by MMOdata. It is the best data we have, short of the data the publishers themselves have. Right now, the total MMO market is about at the levels it was at in late 2008/early 2009.
This doesn't bode well. There are more people online today than in 2008/2009, yet the total numbers in these games are decreasing.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
The decline is a loss of heart and soul, there is no more spirit. It doesn't matter if 6 and a half billion or so (the entire human race) plays mmos or not, the fact is that mmos died since Vanguard was released in its buggy state, and now all of them refuse to innovate....
Why can't they quit copying wow and move on?
'Why can't I re-capture the first time experiance of my youth??'
Because you aren't as young, and it isn't your first time anymore.
Now if you want to try it anyway, you'd better start supporting those games/developers who are trying to use the mechanics/atmosphere that you prefer. Because if they can't even support themselves profitably, then those types of games won't continue to get made.
I don't think they'll ever measure up to memory, but that's the road you need to travel, if you want to try....
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
I suppose what keeps people coming back is different from person to person. For me it is character progression to a large degree.
Even though it isn't an MMORPG I will use PoE as an example that manages to suck my back and keep me coming back. The character progression is basically 2 things, gear and their passive skill tree. Loot drops are such that there is always a chance to get something awesome, and it manages to keep things exciting, but even when you don't get something awesome you get mats that can be used for another chance at getting something awesome or making something better. The passive skill tree gives you a lot of freedom, but your choices do matter. I like that if you want to have a decent character you actually have to put some thought into it. I like that when I level up I feel like I am making progress towards my goal/planned build. I like that you can't just reset everything and do it over whenever you feel like it. It means that I have an incentive to start a new character and try something completely new. It is a time sink, but it is one I enjoy as opposed to go kill 20 boars.
Compare this to your WoW type MMORPG. Often the character progression systems are much simpler and shallow, can be reset on a whim. It feels like your choices don't have much meaning because they can just be changed whenever you feel like it. Other players of the same class feel more or less exactly the same. Which gear is the best is predetermined, as is where you go and what you have to do to get it. When loot drops it isn't particularly exciting unless you need loot from that particular encounter and even then it doesn't feel exciting so much as relief(arrrgh finallly).
Story and quests can provide a different kind of progression in the sense of seeing and doing new things, but tend to be very short lived and hence you need a lot more of this kind of content to keep people interested.
I think a game doesn't have to do something revolutionary to succeed. It just has to do the things it does well. Most MMORPGs have these systems just because they are supposed to, and it doesn't feel like much time has been spent making them feel special but instead just made to fit a predetermined checklist of features. It feels like we have time sinks because we need time sinks instead of having features that are fun that just happen to provide a time sink because people want to keep coming back and use them. It feels like character specialization and customization have disappeared from MMORPGs when for many people these systems are a major defining feature of tradtional RPGs.
Youtube is partly responsible for killing mmo's too.
Back in the day if you wanted to see a spell, an effect, a place, etc. you had to get there in the game. You had to do it in the game. It made the moment special. These days, the fact that you can see everything with a click detracts from that.
Another way youtube is killing these games. Back in the day, if someone needed information, the easiest way was to ask people in game. This naturally created a lot of friendly social interaction. And gave experienced players a certain level of automatic respect.
Now... people spend as much time on youtube watching tutorials, and getting information as they do in the games. By the time they actually play the game, they've already seen everything. There are not as many of those fun mistakes. That sense of adventure and exploration.
Partly because of youtube.
It is important to distinguish artistic decline from financial decline. A game could be doing one but not the other.
The MMO genre is not in financial decline. More companies may be competing for the pot, but the pot itself is not shrinking.
Nor is the MMO genre in obvious artistic decline. Successful, innovative MMOs have always been few and far between. The MMO genre is full of derivative copies of what is successful, but that's true of every genre I can think of. If a vampire novel sells, people will churn out vampire novels.
Like a lot of posters in this thread, I do find MMOs too samey for my tastes. The public in general, on the other hands, seems to be getting just what it wants.
The problem with MMORPGs is people only want MMO's and don't give a rats arse about RPGing.
Games like Ultima Online were outstanding in their prime not because of the game mechanics, (or lack of) but because people/guilds created a really fun place to hang out, and interact, and all within rules they placed upon themselves as role played characters in their world. They took ownership of the world.
The rise in bigger and better graphics fed the MMO style of leveling like a maniac and the demise of RPGIng.
The RPG is still available in the current MMOs , all you need is a group with the perseverance to not go into "cheat" mode and a little imagination.
Almost completely True.
EVERY SINGLE MMORPG HAS SOME FLAWS --> GW2-PVP/Bores AION/Bots, Overly Grindy, Very old interface/combat system
Tera/no content, town afk dungeon game, Neverwinter..all good games nothing more ,dont want to name 10-20 others
It is either outdated graphics, bad quest/pvp system, bad interface ,or even bad community which is not a game problem but still impacts it like in League of Legends
+1
If anyone is saying they are enjoying mmorpg, its either short-termed untill they go through its content, or they have
low standards, i personally am settled with POE, Planetside 2 and League of Legends/Dota for continuous play so far
Well then, since current game mechanics don't really favor the development of a good community these days, (outside of any small clique/guild/social circle you may set up) then there's probably no reason to play them at all then.
I actually have enjoyed playing MMORPG's over the years, though have grown quite bored of the current popular designs and am hoping this next wave of indie driven change will result in a game or two that I'll enjoy.
In the meantime I've decided to go back to EVE for a few months, and when ESO releases consider playing it just for the RVR factor. (besides, haven't bought a new MMO for myself since 2012)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The MMORPG genre is not declining, it is thriving. This is why you are seeing such large emphasis on the idea of instant gratification and non stop hand holding. The days of deep game play and meaningful content is over friends. MMORPG's have officially hit 'mainstream'.
Perhaps this is why you see such desperation of the people throwing money at these relics on kickstarter. They are wishing with all their might (Bless their hearts) that a developer will come along and give them that deep meaningful MMORPG they once had, but it's not going to happen.
At this point, it is either adjust or leave.
What I see is that players who did NOT like the RPG aspect, did not play MMORPGs. As the RPG aspect gets slimmer and near extinction, more and more players (still not liking the RPG aspect) flock to MMOs now.
It is evidenced by the attitude that "old MMORPGs were grinds JUST to get keep you playing - and paying." These new players just do not get that some players actually enjoyed the old gameplay. When I was playing EQ and CoH, I never once thought, "Gee, looks like I'll have to sub another month to accomplish this goal." Never. Once.
What I did think about was "I can not wait to get back into the game" after logging out. "What will do once I go log back on?" Player interaction covered more than swords, maces, daggers, bows, and spells.
Agreed that MMORPGs are on the decline. MMO<add 3 letters here> are on the rise. Virtual Worlds. Players today have no need of them, other than how it affects their enjoyment of fighting. Is there a tree or rock I can dodge behind? Most virtual worlds are too big and having to "walk/run" all that way is "boring!" Who cares about the other players, other than how they can help me get to my end-game faster.
I raise my hand to be counted in the "used to enjoy old MMORPGs, but sitting out the genre now."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Currently playing: Eldevin Online as a Deadly Assassin
1) How much has the total population of the world grown in the same time-frame?
2) How much has internet access grown in the same time frame?
3) How much has the cost of personal computers declined in the same time frame?
4) How much more money is in the world today? What about inflation rates?
5) How does MMO growth compare with other entertainment industries?
6) Has the development of consoles in this same time frame influenced MMO growth?
I don't dispute that MMOs make more money and have more players. That, as you've shown, is a fact. What I wonder about is what exactly this means. Stats, after all, are all about "presentation and interpretation", right?
Do these numbers mean that genre is hale and healthy? Business-wise, of course! Quality-wise is a point of contention
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I am just as tired of the canned response of "rose colored glasses" as you are of hearing how great older MMORPGs were.
If ANYONE actually enjoyed the gameplay of old MMORPGs, they must be crazy, right? How on earth can anyone "enjoy" something so utterly terrible, right?
Please stop the "rose colored glasses" crap. Not EVERYONE who played old MMORPGs hated every minute they logged in, as you seem to believe. I actually play on an EQ emulator every now and again. What keeps me from playing more often is the lack of any semblance of low level community. The mechanics are still just as fun (or frustrating) as before.
Imagine that. Someone is actually enjoying playing an OLD MMORPG! And enjoying it today...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Very much agreed! I used to think at work what will i do in-game when i get off and home. If only these new people knew what they missed..
Count me in too, chief. *raises hand*
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I have changed? Possibly. I am more "MMO savvy" than I was when I first logged into EQ. That really does not mean crap. Name me one recently released MMO that has the same type of gameplay that EQ had, back in the day.
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New MMOs are "better built" with "more content" and "overall better games"?
"Better games" is an opinion, not a fact.
Exactly HOW are these new monstrosities "better built?" Do you mean "streamlined" so that getting to end-game is the most efficient?
"More content?" Name me one recently released MMO that has 12 races (at launch) choosing from 14 classes (at launch) with 14 starting cities (at launch) on 3 continents (and a moon in a later expansion) with 2 or 3 more continents added in expansions with 3 "otherworldly planes" (at launch). Just one. This was done in 1999. Going on 15 years later, what do we have?
Paragraphs 3. 4, and 5::
I actually agree with your assessment here. One thing that has not changed in MMOs is the complaining. It was rampant back then and still is today. Breast size in Wildstar is ridiculous. So what about pixelated breasts?
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Agreement here, too. There has not been ONE MMO ever launched that did not have troubles. Not one. A good launch is one that has the fewest bugs (not bug-free) as possible. As you said, MMOs have the luxury of always evolving and being able to fix problematic issues.
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Anyone who plays games is a "self-entitled whiner." Anyone who says differently is lying. Why on earth would I (or you or anyone else) rant and rave about a game I (You, or they) have no desire to play? We ALL want games that *we* find fun and enjoyable. I guess voicing opinions is labeled "self-entitled whining" now...
"Games have not changed, YOU have." What a load of crap! Tell me with a straight face that MMOs have NOT changed in their gameplay in the past 10 or so years. I will laugh right along with you if you do. The proof that they have changed is this very discussion we are having. If they have NOT changed, why do so many gamers "long for the old days?" Why do so many new MMO gamers flock to play them now, instead of playing them yesteryore?
Now, the "newness" of playing an MMO will never be the same. That is lost for ever. You can be innocent for only so long. I feel for the players seeking this experience again.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I hear that they are selling flying cars, too. They may even be a reality before you're dead.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
This column feels... late. And safe.
This particulate website has always pushed the image that the genre is fine. I think maybe finally the tide is so strong they're going to try to pander to what has become the majority. This would have been a bold statement about 6 years ago. Now it's just "Well.. duh."
The MMORPG market has been in a nose dive since the end of 2003. It let up briefly with Vanguard and even more briefly with GW2, but that's about it.
Within the majority. Which is solo or co-op console based gaming. GTA, Call of Duty, etc. Anecdotaly, in my social circle, im the only one I know that plays MMOs. But all of them that plays any games, owns a console.
I'd rather invest in something by someone who made two games I liked instead of sit here and complain.
Play games not forums
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
You know, I investigated UO, EQ, SWG, EVE, even WoW, and decided that the negatives outweighed the positives. For me. This kept me from playing MMORPGs for years. So, the enjoyment, for me, was not there.
For other folks, sure. But....if you all don't support games that try to harken back to this old style, they won't continue to get supported or made. If the developers can't make a profitable enough game to live on, they won't build it, and you folks won't get to come. Now I like aspects of all these worlds: The no-class skill sets of UO, the economies of SWG and EVE, the depth of the virutal world in EQ. Those are attractive, but they weren't enough to offset other problems. Given a reasonable game design, I'd happily try out something that is built on old school principles. But no rosey glory for me.
Your comment on the low level community is telling though. IF you can't get enough folks to support these things.....
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Yeah read the article and like almost everything on the internet its an opinion based on observation. I'd say MMO's are seemingly on the decline because of the lack of quality MMO's out there.
We've had quite of few yrs of this F2P item mall crap which is more cash grab than quality MMO. Also games with very very few players being categorized as an MMO which they'd be more of an MO or Co-OP game.
The F2P "make any and everything, give in game purchases, then says its part of the MMO genre" has given us buttloads of crap. If anyones really paying attention you can see the hoards of players waiting at the gates of each big dev true MMO hoping it delivers the massive fun we had in UO, EQ, and WoW.
Rift is out there but its just not doing it for alot of us, Eve is out there and its not doing it for alot of us, WoW is still out there and now no matter what they add it still feels like "this has been done, ive done this before"
Like a fool i waited at the gates of SWTOR and got burned, like an idiot i waited at the gates of Planetside 2 thinking i was gonna get that fun factor i had in Planetside 1..didint happen. Hopefully i'm not being a foolish idiot by waiting for Wildstar to deliver.
Side note i watched GW2, Tera and FFXIV from the sidelines..not wasting anymore money.
So yeah you can honestly say MMO's are on the decline because..theyre arent any real MMO's out there. First letter being Massive. Massive because a LARGE number of players think the thing is fun and worth shoveling money into.
Darn it. Well, investigating and playing are 2 different animals. Um i jumped in UO head first back in the 90's and i enjoyed every bit of having to watch my back when i left town.
I personally avoid rating or judging an MMO if i havent really played it. Reason 1 why i'll never take a magazine or website review of an MMO seriously. 15 mins of play and you can rate it??? nope , nope , nope.
I dipped my big toe in EQ way back when, didnt like it personally but theres no way i have the experience to say its bad or list the negatives. Those negatives are an opinion.
Being a 5 yr UO vet, before they screwed it up by making pvp and no pvp servers, it still cracks me up to this day that they call the safe, no penalty pvp in these games ..pvp..its just dueling..its all just dueling. Staged pvp..jeez its still dueling