The main issue with the game is the terrible combat. Other than that, if you play MMOs for everything besides the combat, it is probably the best one out there for now. But if combat is your main interest, you should start looking for something else.
Not really, there are games with better PVP, better character development, better story, better exploration and better crafting.
ARR has fun dungeons and exciting primal battle, pretty animation and good music, every other aspect other games done it better.
The main issue with the game is the terrible combat. Other than that, if you play MMOs for everything besides the combat, it is probably the best one out there for now. But if combat is your main interest, you should start looking for something else.
Not really, there are games with better PVP, better character development, better story, better exploration and better crafting.
ARR has fun dungeons and exciting primal battle, pretty animation and good music, every other aspect other games done it better.
Which is irrelevant unless you like playing ten different games that each do one thing better than ARR.
Those looking for a one solid package full of decent-to-great attributes will hardly find something "better" elsewhere.
Especially when it comes to post-release production values. No other current MMORPG is meeting the standards of ARR's post-release content additions. WoW may be close but is slowing down every year.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
The main issue with the game is the terrible combat. Other than that, if you play MMOs for everything besides the combat, it is probably the best one out there for now. But if combat is your main interest, you should start looking for something else.
Not really, there are games with better PVP, better character development, better story, better exploration and better crafting.
ARR has fun dungeons and exciting primal battle, pretty animation and good music, every other aspect other games done it better.
Which is irrelevant unless you like playing ten different games that each do one thing better than ARR.
Those looking for a one solid package full of decent-to-great attributes will hardly find something "better" elsewhere.
Especially when it comes to post-release production values. No other current MMORPG is meeting the standards of ARR's post-release content additions. WoW may be close but is slowing down every year.
It is relevant if you want highest quality when playing for certain aspect. And that doesn't make the game "best one out there for now" if it doesn't make every aspect better than others.
And I find 2.1 patch nothing exciting, personally, especially that crappy PVP.
been playing a bit now, and I don't see this "horrible combat" that guy is talking about. I actually like the combat. It's tab targeting and it's good for its genre. So stop imposing your personal opinion on everyone else.
The ms lag can be a bit annoying, but you get used to it, and I understand it is there way of dealing with network lag. What I don't get is how a company as successful as them use such an obtrusive way to deal with network lag. Most other games make it as transparent as possible. I just expected a more sophisticated system from Square Enix.
I didn't see if you posted a Server but I would say Cactuar (Seems nice enough and always people on).
The one gripe I have with crafting is every crafter makes the same things. I'd like some variety like boss dropped recipes.
The one issue a caster has is if you start casting in an area marked as about to be hit by boss AOE and you run out you will still be hit sometimes as the server sees your last location where the spell started. It's odd. As a bard you won't have this issue at all
At least at the low levels, it's as polished as people said. I haven't yet come across any obvious bugs.
The combat isn't terrible, but it's not very good, either. Even so, that's more forgivable in a game that isn't purely about the combat.
The most disappointing thing to me has been that, while there is a crafting puzzle, it's exactly the same crafting puzzle for every single crafting profession. And at least so far, it doesn't look like a very deep one, either.
I didn't see if you posted a Server but I would say Cactuar (Seems nice enough and always people on).
The one gripe I have with crafting is every crafter makes the same things. I'd like some variety like boss dropped recipes.
The one issue a caster has is if you start casting in an area marked as about to be hit by boss AOE and you run out you will still be hit sometimes as the server sees your last location where the spell started. It's odd. As a bard you won't have this issue at all
I don't see that as a problem. The built in 300 ms (open world)/100 ms (endgame zones/pvp) delay in checking character positions in order to reduce server load is negated whenever you use an action based on a target such as abilities, spells, or using the face target key. So if you start a cast and then in under 100 ms move it might flag you as being in your previous location. The reason it should not be fixed, is because without this you are at the mercy of the regular server check. Whereas because of it so long as you use ANY action on target, even if you cancel it or it doesn't activate because it is on cooldown, the server will still instantly check your position making the "latency/lag etc." issues that you see people whine about all the time due to this built in delay irrelevant.
Bards have the same issue if they use an ability and then move shortly after without using another action. Maybe you don't notice it as much on your bard because you are spamming abilities quicker on your bard than whatever casting job you were playing.
At least at the low levels, it's as polished as people said. I haven't yet come across any obvious bugs.
The combat isn't terrible, but it's not very good, either. Even so, that's more forgivable in a game that isn't purely about the combat.
The most disappointing thing to me has been that, while there is a crafting puzzle, it's exactly the same crafting puzzle for every single crafting profession. And at least so far, it doesn't look like a very deep one, either.
I don't know, it's as combat centric as pretty much every modern mmo. Crafting took a big hit in terms of depth and relevance with ARR. As someone who had every crafting class maxed in FFXIV I found that I used my crafting less in FFXIV than in WoW, which says a lot.
been playing a bit now, and I don't see this "horrible combat" that guy is talking about. I actually like the combat. It's tab targeting and it's good for its genre. So stop imposing your personal opinion on everyone else.
The ms lag can be a bit annoying, but you get used to it, and I understand it is there way of dealing with network lag. What I don't get is how a company as successful as them use such an obtrusive way to deal with network lag. Most other games make it as transparent as possible. I just expected a more sophisticated system from Square Enix.
The whole point of a forum is to impose your personal opinion on everyone else, just like you have done in this hypocritical post.
For what its worth, I agree with him, the combat is pretty much the worst I have seen even for a tab-target MMO. WoW, SWTOR, TSW and god help me - even RIFT - have better combat than FFXIV ARR.
But of course that is an opinion. Just like its your opinion that it is good somehow.
The main issue with the game is the terrible combat. Other than that, if you play MMOs for everything besides the combat, it is probably the best one out there for now. But if combat is your main interest, you should start looking for something else.
Not really, there are games with better PVP, better character development, better story, better exploration and better crafting.
ARR has fun dungeons and exciting primal battle, pretty animation and good music, every other aspect other games done it better.
Which is irrelevant unless you like playing ten different games that each do one thing better than ARR.
Those looking for a one solid package full of decent-to-great attributes will hardly find something "better" elsewhere.
Especially when it comes to post-release production values. No other current MMORPG is meeting the standards of ARR's post-release content additions. WoW may be close but is slowing down every year.
It is relevant if you want highest quality when playing for certain aspect. And that doesn't make the game "best one out there for now" if it doesn't make every aspect better than others.
And I find 2.1 patch nothing exciting, personally, especially that crappy PVP.
You don't have to be the best in everything to be the best one out there. Because then there would never be "the best one" since no game can meet such ridiculous demands. Defeats the point of "best one" entirely. The only way for it to make sense is to look at the whole package, but that would mean ARR actually has a good shot at being "the best one" and that obviously doesn't suit your agenda so too bad.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
The main issue with the game is the terrible combat. Other than that, if you play MMOs for everything besides the combat, it is probably the best one out there for now. But if combat is your main interest, you should start looking for something else.
Not really, there are games with better PVP, better character development, better story, better exploration and better crafting.
ARR has fun dungeons and exciting primal battle, pretty animation and good music, every other aspect other games done it better.
Which is irrelevant unless you like playing ten different games that each do one thing better than ARR.
Those looking for a one solid package full of decent-to-great attributes will hardly find something "better" elsewhere in my opinion.
Especially when it comes to post-release production values. No other current MMORPG is meeting the standards of ARR's post-release content additions in my opinion. WoW may be close but is slowing down every year.
Made a couple necessary changes there for ya, Hyan. You seem to have this penchant for over-stating things.
I chuckled at the bit about "no other current MMORPG is meeting the standards.."...
What standards has ARR set, in its ripe old age of nearly 5 months?
What "standards" are other post-release MMOs not meeting, that ARR has somehow already set in their very first and only update?
Please answer that objectively, without resorting to over-baked fanboy hyperbole. I'm genuinely curious what you feel SE has achieved so soon that no other MMO out there has. When you're answering it - if you do - please remember... these are your opinions. Not indisputable fact.
The main issue with the game is the terrible combat. Other than that, if you play MMOs for everything besides the combat, it is probably the best one out there for now. But if combat is your main interest, you should start looking for something else.
Not really, there are games with better PVP, better character development, better story, better exploration and better crafting.
ARR has fun dungeons and exciting primal battle, pretty animation and good music, every other aspect other games done it better.
Which is irrelevant unless you like playing ten different games that each do one thing better than ARR.
Those looking for a one solid package full of decent-to-great attributes will hardly find something "better" elsewhere.
Especially when it comes to post-release production values. No other current MMORPG is meeting the standards of ARR's post-release content additions. WoW may be close but is slowing down every year.
It is relevant if you want highest quality when playing for certain aspect. And that doesn't make the game "best one out there for now" if it doesn't make every aspect better than others.
And I find 2.1 patch nothing exciting, personally, especially that crappy PVP.
You don't have to be the best in everything to be the best one out there. Because then there would never be "the best one" since no game can meet such ridiculous demands. Defeats the point of "best one" entirely. The only way for it to make sense is to look at the whole package, but that would mean ARR actually has a good shot at being "the best one" and that obviously doesn't suit your agenda so too bad.
Don't you think you're contradicting yourself with the above statement?
neobahamut20 said this game is "the best" barring combat, I listed several aspect that's obviously weaker than other titles. Then you defend ARR for "you don't have to be the best in everything to be the best one out there".
Right, so I can tell you SWTOR/GW2/WOW/"insert your MMO title here with 1 strong aspect but not perfect" is the best MMORPG because "you don't have to be the best in everything to be the best".
Not counting battle system and art, IMO ARR has better endgame than GW2 and better dungeons than SWTOR, but SWTOR has better story/lving experience and GW2 has better exploration/PVP. No game has the best in everything, but saying ARR is the best without having everything when GW2/SWTOR is obviously not allowed to be the best on this site because they have 1 negative aspect being overemphasized is just fan boyism and unfair.
It's more like you picked the what you like in ARR, and ignored every other negative aspect of the game because ARR is still the best with flaws. Then when it comes to other MMO like SWTOR or GW2 or w/e other AAA titles, you ignored their positive aspect and overemphasized the weak part so ARR can be "the best". When honest people pointed out the flaws in ARR, they're "haters" and shouldn't be on the forum.
IMO I think a good MMO needs talent tree/character build/complicated skill system and big open world to explore/do activity with because it's RPG. ARR has none of those, by your logic I can overemphasize the lack of RPG element and claim other titles are better?
The main issue with the game is the terrible combat. Other than that, if you play MMOs for everything besides the combat, it is probably the best one out there for now. But if combat is your main interest, you should start looking for something else.
Not really, there are games with better PVP, better character development, better story, better exploration and better crafting.
ARR has fun dungeons and exciting primal battle, pretty animation and good music, every other aspect other games done it better.
Which is irrelevant unless you like playing ten different games that each do one thing better than ARR.
Those looking for a one solid package full of decent-to-great attributes will hardly find something "better" elsewhere in my opinion.
Especially when it comes to post-release production values. No other current MMORPG is meeting the standards of ARR's post-release content additions in my opinion. WoW may be close but is slowing down every year.
Made a couple necessary changes there for ya, Hyan. You seem to have this penchant for over-stating things.
I chuckled at the bit about "no other current MMORPG is meeting the standards.."...
What standards has ARR set, in its ripe old age of nearly 5 months?
What "standards" are other post-release MMOs not meeting, that ARR has somehow already set in their very first and only update?
Please answer that objectively, without resorting to over-baked fanboy hyperbole. I'm genuinely curious what you feel SE has achieved so soon that no other MMO out there has. When you're answering it - if you do - please remember... these are your opinions. Not indisputable fact.
Perhaps I can somewhat answer this question better than Hyan himself: The standard is already set in his mind.
I find majority of the fanboys/haters on this site tend to have an opinion on "what makes a good MMO". They must see certain element in a title they're looking for, otherwise they'd bash it to death, overemphasize every aspect they don't like. If they see a design they like in an MMO, they'd praise it endlessly, and ignore every other design flaws.
That's why haters bash SWTOR for not being SWG or WoW with good endgame, then bash GW2 for not having endgame progression and holy trinity, and bash WoW for not being EQ, bash TESO for being PVP focused and less freedom than single player ES, with animation worse than Japanese/Korean MMOs.....and the list goes on.
That's why fanboys ignored terrible PVP in ARR, because PVP isn't important in a PVE focused MMO. Fanboys ignored the lack of talent tree/character builds because talent tree/character build isn't important in MMO since there's only 1 optimal choice. Then fanboys ignored the lack of staying power because they haven't enter coil yet(even though majority of my friends already beat coil T5). Obviously fan boys can ignore terrible combat with animation lock because they want slow paced combat....oh right I promised I can't bash combat system right?
When you ignored every negative aspect of the game, of course the game is "the best" because it's simply kind of the game fan boys are looking for. That doesn't make it the best.
"No other current MMORPG is meeting the standards", it's more like Hyan set a standard in this mind, and the game simply followed the direction he wants.
IMO, last update gave players a crappy PVP and raid that should have been in the game at launch, a few more quests that's not so interesting, a few more instances that doesn't really change the game direction. What I really wanted, bigger open world, more exploration and more complex character development still doesn't exist.
By his logic I can say ARR doesn't meet the standard right?
By his logic I can say ARR doesn't meet the standard right?
Of course you can. Just not to him.
Excellent points, by the way. You nailed the fanboy/hater phenomenon pretty accurately.
No, he described the status quo of forum discussions. I wonder if he (and you) honestly think you're not doing the exact same thing as everyone else.
Indeed sir indeed
Indeed not.
I draw a very clear distinction between what is fact and what is opinion. I do not assert things as "fact" or "truth" simply because I really want them to be, or feel strongly about it.
When I'm sharing an opinion, I make it a point to present it as such, using qualifiers like "IMO", or "in my opinion", or "I think". I do not - ever - assert opinion as 'Fact'; Hyanmen does so consistently, especially where ARR is concerned.
When I'm sharing something as fact, I provide references and/or links to my sources so others can check it for themselves and verify its accuracy.
I do not immediately dismiss or build strawmen out of others' opinions simply because they aren't in parity with my own.
I do call people out when they are being dishonest or disingenuous in expressing their statements, however - for example, misrepresenting factual details in order to "support" their opinion. Opinions can't be inherently "wrong", but they can be based on wrong - or misrepresented - info. For example, the person who has stated ARR is doing awesome because it has 1.5 million subs is voicing an opinion based on false info.
So, while I acknowledge that there are certainly people on these forums that fit your characterization... I do not count myself among them. Accuracy and intellectual honesty matter to me, and I do my best to maintain both in my posts.
neobahamut20 said this game is "the best" barring combat, I listed several aspect that's obviously weaker than other titles. Then you defend ARR for "you don't have to be the best in everything to be the best one out there".
Right, so I can tell you SWTOR/GW2/WOW/"insert your MMO title here with 1 strong aspect but not perfect" is the best MMORPG because "you don't have to be the best in everything to be the best".
If a game allows it (which is a huge caveat), I prefer to focus on the features that it does well and not the ones that it does poorly. That's why I regard Uncharted Waters Online as the one the best games ever made, even though the ship combat was merely okay and the land combat was terrible--and certainly much worse than FFXIV combat. One could readily ignore the combat and do other things.
Badly features are only problematic if they can't be readily ignored and the game wouldn't be any good without them.
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I initially found crafting to be rather disappointing. Up to level 5, it's completely stupid. Past that, it gets a little better, but still wasn't very good. Last night when I hit 13 in something, the condition of materials started changing, which could add a lot more complexity, though I haven't played with it enough to have a strong opinion. Is that the last big change that adds a lot more complexity to crafting than seen at lower levels, or is there something left to come that I should be aware of?
neobahamut20 said this game is "the best" barring combat, I listed several aspect that's obviously weaker than other titles. Then you defend ARR for "you don't have to be the best in everything to be the best one out there".
Right, so I can tell you SWTOR/GW2/WOW/"insert your MMO title here with 1 strong aspect but not perfect" is the best MMORPG because "you don't have to be the best in everything to be the best".
If a game allows it (which is a huge caveat), I prefer to focus on the features that it does well and not the ones that it does poorly. That's why I regard Uncharted Waters Online as the one the best games ever made, even though the ship combat was merely okay and the land combat was terrible--and certainly much worse than FFXIV combat. One could readily ignore the combat and do other things.
Badly features are only problematic if they can't be readily ignored and the game wouldn't be any good without them.
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I initially found crafting to be rather disappointing. Up to level 5, it's completely stupid. Past that, it gets a little better, but still wasn't very good. Last night when I hit 13 in something, the condition of materials started changing, which could add a lot more complexity, though I haven't played with it enough to have a strong opinion. Is that the last big change that adds a lot more complexity to crafting than seen at lower levels, or is there something left to come that I should be aware of?
IT gets much more complex. You will be getting crafting abilities up to lvl 50 with some of the best ones being lvl 50. you will add 10 more abilities from cross classing other crafts, adding to the complexity and fun.
Stick with it, i think you're going to enjoy it. I have 5 crafts at 50.
By his logic I can say ARR doesn't meet the standard right?
Of course you can. Just not to him.
Excellent points, by the way. You nailed the fanboy/hater phenomenon pretty accurately.
No, he described the status quo of forum discussions. I wonder if he (and you) honestly think you're not doing the exact same thing as everyone else.
Most forum discussions are opinions, but you can either present your opinion in a more objective/convincing way, or present it in a more subjective/biased way.
If I tell everyone WoW is the best MMO ever made, plenty of WoW haters are probably going to disagree because they liked sandbox MMO or EQ more.
If I tell everyone WoW is the best MMO because no other title has this much impact to the industry and make this much money, and no other title has such high production value as a whole, probably only a few would disagree that WoW is the greatest MMO, or at least one of the most successful one. Even if players prefer sandbox/EQ or w/e, it's hard to deny that the reasons I stated is indeed fact.
Present an opinion without telling everyone why often ended up as biased opinions.
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by Bluewhitehell
neobahamut20 said this game is "the best" barring combat, I listed several aspect that's obviously weaker than other titles. Then you defend ARR for "you don't have to be the best in everything to be the best one out there".
Right, so I can tell you SWTOR/GW2/WOW/"insert your MMO title here with 1 strong aspect but not perfect" is the best MMORPG because "you don't have to be the best in everything to be the best".
If a game allows it (which is a huge caveat), I prefer to focus on the features that it does well and not the ones that it does poorly. That's why I regard Uncharted Waters Online as the one the best games ever made, even though the ship combat was merely okay and the land combat was terrible--and certainly much worse than FFXIV combat. One could readily ignore the combat and do other things.
Badly features are only problematic if they can't be readily ignored and the game wouldn't be any good without them.
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I initially found crafting to be rather disappointing. Up to level 5, it's completely stupid. Past that, it gets a little better, but still wasn't very good. Last night when I hit 13 in something, the condition of materials started changing, which could add a lot more complexity, though I haven't played with it enough to have a strong opinion. Is that the last big change that adds a lot more complexity to crafting than seen at lower levels, or is there something left to come that I should be aware of?
Highlighted for the importance. What you prefer is different from outright claiming something is the best, using "you don't have to be the best in everything to be the best" as a reason. You stated the reason why you like it, that is a hundred times more helpful in a "is this game ready?" or "is this game good?" discussion. Whoever ask questions like "is this game ready?" or "is this game good?", they're trying to find out whether the game is something they would like before trying. Maybe the OP is looking for a bigger game that has everything? Telling him "This game is the best, nothing beats it, go try it!" doesn't help him if it ended up not being something he's been looking for.
Now if you stated that the game only focus on something such as animation, the FF-ness or dungeon holy trinity mechanics, then whoever read the forum can decide whether he wants this type of game.
I was thinking of trying this too. Is there some kind of free trial for it?
A lot of places have it for $20 bucks. That gets you the game and 30 days free.....
It may not be a free trial but i think it's a great value. You may hate the game, but at least it's not like ps4/x box where you're out $60 bucks and nothing to show for.
A lot of people who hate on this game actually loved the trek up to 50 with the story content. Again, it's probably the best value right now if you decide to play for only a month... a lot of stuff to do and than it will be up to you if you want ot continue.
I've been looking into playing FFXIV ever since it launched--in 2010. But I don't like playing games that are a buggy mess, which this game reputedly was in 2010. And in 2011, and 2012. Now the word seems to be that it's much better. Is it now a solid, polished game, or is there still a major revamp coming that I ought to wait for before picking it up? Or worse, is it still a buggy mess to the degree that I ought to wait longer to see if it gets fixed?
For what it's worth, I don't care if the endgame is a mess, unless the endgame is so bad that it ruins lower level content. I'll play all classes equally and keep them roughly together in levels. (Well, I'll keep the battle classes together in levels; crafting and gathering may vary.) That means every class levels slowly, so I'm not going to hit the cap for a long, long time. But I want to know if the lower level areas are polished and ready yet.
Currently playing and plan to still play. To answer your question though the game is SUBSTANTIALLY better than its prior 1.0 incarnation. If you were finding a time to jump on the band wagon then now is the time!
No problems at all with the game with how it is working, I have had no issues with the game what-so-ever. No crashes, no error codes, no graphic based bugs, no popping nothing at all like that.
Now, playing the game with all classes on one character is quite a feat so I would suggest you hook up with a FC as quickly as you can and get the lovely exp bonus they provide, also eat any experience based food also. Note, that you will not be able to play other classes until you have progressed far enough into the story, which is around level 15 or so I believe.
End game content is fine and runs smoothly. Chances are if you are starting to play now, you'll most likely catch the ass end of 2.2 so you'll have even more content to get your mitts into.
Really fun game.
(Note: Not everyone feels the same as I do, but I am very happy with my MMO choice and I don't plan on leaving this game for ESO or EQ or anything).
You don't have to be the best in everything to be the best one out there. Because then there would never be "the best one" since no game can meet such ridiculous demands. Defeats the point of "best one" entirely. The only way for it to make sense is to look at the whole package, but that would mean ARR actually has a good shot at being "the best one" and that obviously doesn't suit your agenda so too bad.
Don't you think you're contradicting yourself with the above statement?
neobahamut20 said this game is "the best" barring combat, I listed several aspect that's obviously weaker than other titles. Then you defend ARR for "you don't have to be the best in everything to be the best one out there".
Right, so I can tell you SWTOR/GW2/WOW/"insert your MMO title here with 1 strong aspect but not perfect" is the best MMORPG because "you don't have to be the best in everything to be the best".
Not counting battle system and art, IMO ARR has better endgame than GW2 and better dungeons than SWTOR, but SWTOR has better story/lving experience and GW2 has better exploration/PVP. No game has the best in everything, but saying ARR is the best without having everything when GW2/SWTOR is obviously not allowed to be the best on this site because they have 1 negative aspect being overemphasized is just fan boyism and unfair.
It's more like you picked the what you like in ARR, and ignored every other negative aspect of the game because ARR is still the best with flaws. Then when it comes to other MMO like SWTOR or GW2 or w/e other AAA titles, you ignored their positive aspect and overemphasized the weak part so ARR can be "the best". When honest people pointed out the flaws in ARR, they're "haters" and shouldn't be on the forum.
IMO I think a good MMO needs talent tree/character build/complicated skill system and big open world to explore/do activity with because it's RPG. ARR has none of those, by your logic I can overemphasize the lack of RPG element and claim other titles are better?
Actually you very explicitly stated that if every aspect isn't better than others, the game can't be considered "the best one out there." I called you out on that extremely flawed opinion, because it makes zero sense, regardless of the game in question. The concept is hardly specific to FFXIV.
You can make the argument that SWTOR/GW2/WOW is the best MMORPG because the same logic applies to every game. I never claimed you can't.
Actually that is an infinitely sounder thing to do because then ARR can actually be compared to a certain game with concrete attributes, not just "MMO's in general". Obviously no game is going to win that comparison because you can pick and choose the cream of the crop for every attribute. But you never brought anything concrete to the discussion, simply extremely ambiguous claims with no basis. "Other games do X and Y better" is such a meaningful contribution that I must applaud you.
Last but not the least to quote myself "ARR actually has a good shot at being "the best one"" which is not me saying ARR is the best one out there.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Comments
Not really, there are games with better PVP, better character development, better story, better exploration and better crafting.
ARR has fun dungeons and exciting primal battle, pretty animation and good music, every other aspect other games done it better.
Which is irrelevant unless you like playing ten different games that each do one thing better than ARR.
Those looking for a one solid package full of decent-to-great attributes will hardly find something "better" elsewhere.
Especially when it comes to post-release production values. No other current MMORPG is meeting the standards of ARR's post-release content additions. WoW may be close but is slowing down every year.
It is relevant if you want highest quality when playing for certain aspect. And that doesn't make the game "best one out there for now" if it doesn't make every aspect better than others.
And I find 2.1 patch nothing exciting, personally, especially that crappy PVP.
been playing a bit now, and I don't see this "horrible combat" that guy is talking about. I actually like the combat. It's tab targeting and it's good for its genre. So stop imposing your personal opinion on everyone else.
The ms lag can be a bit annoying, but you get used to it, and I understand it is there way of dealing with network lag. What I don't get is how a company as successful as them use such an obtrusive way to deal with network lag. Most other games make it as transparent as possible. I just expected a more sophisticated system from Square Enix.
I didn't see if you posted a Server but I would say Cactuar (Seems nice enough and always people on).
The one gripe I have with crafting is every crafter makes the same things. I'd like some variety like boss dropped recipes.
The one issue a caster has is if you start casting in an area marked as about to be hit by boss AOE and you run out you will still be hit sometimes as the server sees your last location where the spell started. It's odd. As a bard you won't have this issue at all
At least at the low levels, it's as polished as people said. I haven't yet come across any obvious bugs.
The combat isn't terrible, but it's not very good, either. Even so, that's more forgivable in a game that isn't purely about the combat.
The most disappointing thing to me has been that, while there is a crafting puzzle, it's exactly the same crafting puzzle for every single crafting profession. And at least so far, it doesn't look like a very deep one, either.
I don't see that as a problem. The built in 300 ms (open world)/100 ms (endgame zones/pvp) delay in checking character positions in order to reduce server load is negated whenever you use an action based on a target such as abilities, spells, or using the face target key. So if you start a cast and then in under 100 ms move it might flag you as being in your previous location. The reason it should not be fixed, is because without this you are at the mercy of the regular server check. Whereas because of it so long as you use ANY action on target, even if you cancel it or it doesn't activate because it is on cooldown, the server will still instantly check your position making the "latency/lag etc." issues that you see people whine about all the time due to this built in delay irrelevant.
Bards have the same issue if they use an ability and then move shortly after without using another action. Maybe you don't notice it as much on your bard because you are spamming abilities quicker on your bard than whatever casting job you were playing.
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I don't know, it's as combat centric as pretty much every modern mmo. Crafting took a big hit in terms of depth and relevance with ARR. As someone who had every crafting class maxed in FFXIV I found that I used my crafting less in FFXIV than in WoW, which says a lot.
The whole point of a forum is to impose your personal opinion on everyone else, just like you have done in this hypocritical post.
For what its worth, I agree with him, the combat is pretty much the worst I have seen even for a tab-target MMO. WoW, SWTOR, TSW and god help me - even RIFT - have better combat than FFXIV ARR.
But of course that is an opinion. Just like its your opinion that it is good somehow.
You don't have to be the best in everything to be the best one out there. Because then there would never be "the best one" since no game can meet such ridiculous demands. Defeats the point of "best one" entirely. The only way for it to make sense is to look at the whole package, but that would mean ARR actually has a good shot at being "the best one" and that obviously doesn't suit your agenda so too bad.
Made a couple necessary changes there for ya, Hyan. You seem to have this penchant for over-stating things.
I chuckled at the bit about "no other current MMORPG is meeting the standards.."...
What standards has ARR set, in its ripe old age of nearly 5 months?
What "standards" are other post-release MMOs not meeting, that ARR has somehow already set in their very first and only update?
Please answer that objectively, without resorting to over-baked fanboy hyperbole. I'm genuinely curious what you feel SE has achieved so soon that no other MMO out there has. When you're answering it - if you do - please remember... these are your opinions. Not indisputable fact.
Don't you think you're contradicting yourself with the above statement?
neobahamut20 said this game is "the best" barring combat, I listed several aspect that's obviously weaker than other titles. Then you defend ARR for "you don't have to be the best in everything to be the best one out there".
Right, so I can tell you SWTOR/GW2/WOW/"insert your MMO title here with 1 strong aspect but not perfect" is the best MMORPG because "you don't have to be the best in everything to be the best".
Not counting battle system and art, IMO ARR has better endgame than GW2 and better dungeons than SWTOR, but SWTOR has better story/lving experience and GW2 has better exploration/PVP. No game has the best in everything, but saying ARR is the best without having everything when GW2/SWTOR is obviously not allowed to be the best on this site because they have 1 negative aspect being overemphasized is just fan boyism and unfair.
It's more like you picked the what you like in ARR, and ignored every other negative aspect of the game because ARR is still the best with flaws. Then when it comes to other MMO like SWTOR or GW2 or w/e other AAA titles, you ignored their positive aspect and overemphasized the weak part so ARR can be "the best". When honest people pointed out the flaws in ARR, they're "haters" and shouldn't be on the forum.
IMO I think a good MMO needs talent tree/character build/complicated skill system and big open world to explore/do activity with because it's RPG. ARR has none of those, by your logic I can overemphasize the lack of RPG element and claim other titles are better?
Perhaps I can somewhat answer this question better than Hyan himself: The standard is already set in his mind.
I find majority of the fanboys/haters on this site tend to have an opinion on "what makes a good MMO". They must see certain element in a title they're looking for, otherwise they'd bash it to death, overemphasize every aspect they don't like. If they see a design they like in an MMO, they'd praise it endlessly, and ignore every other design flaws.
That's why haters bash SWTOR for not being SWG or WoW with good endgame, then bash GW2 for not having endgame progression and holy trinity, and bash WoW for not being EQ, bash TESO for being PVP focused and less freedom than single player ES, with animation worse than Japanese/Korean MMOs.....and the list goes on.
That's why fanboys ignored terrible PVP in ARR, because PVP isn't important in a PVE focused MMO. Fanboys ignored the lack of talent tree/character builds because talent tree/character build isn't important in MMO since there's only 1 optimal choice. Then fanboys ignored the lack of staying power because they haven't enter coil yet(even though majority of my friends already beat coil T5). Obviously fan boys can ignore terrible combat with animation lock because they want slow paced combat....oh right I promised I can't bash combat system right?
When you ignored every negative aspect of the game, of course the game is "the best" because it's simply kind of the game fan boys are looking for. That doesn't make it the best.
"No other current MMORPG is meeting the standards", it's more like Hyan set a standard in this mind, and the game simply followed the direction he wants.
IMO, last update gave players a crappy PVP and raid that should have been in the game at launch, a few more quests that's not so interesting, a few more instances that doesn't really change the game direction. What I really wanted, bigger open world, more exploration and more complex character development still doesn't exist.
By his logic I can say ARR doesn't meet the standard right?
No, he described the status quo of forum discussions. I wonder if he (and you) honestly think you're not doing the exact same thing as everyone else.
Indeed not.
I draw a very clear distinction between what is fact and what is opinion. I do not assert things as "fact" or "truth" simply because I really want them to be, or feel strongly about it.
When I'm sharing an opinion, I make it a point to present it as such, using qualifiers like "IMO", or "in my opinion", or "I think". I do not - ever - assert opinion as 'Fact'; Hyanmen does so consistently, especially where ARR is concerned.
When I'm sharing something as fact, I provide references and/or links to my sources so others can check it for themselves and verify its accuracy.
I do not immediately dismiss or build strawmen out of others' opinions simply because they aren't in parity with my own.
I do call people out when they are being dishonest or disingenuous in expressing their statements, however - for example, misrepresenting factual details in order to "support" their opinion. Opinions can't be inherently "wrong", but they can be based on wrong - or misrepresented - info. For example, the person who has stated ARR is doing awesome because it has 1.5 million subs is voicing an opinion based on false info.
So, while I acknowledge that there are certainly people on these forums that fit your characterization... I do not count myself among them. Accuracy and intellectual honesty matter to me, and I do my best to maintain both in my posts.
If a game allows it (which is a huge caveat), I prefer to focus on the features that it does well and not the ones that it does poorly. That's why I regard Uncharted Waters Online as the one the best games ever made, even though the ship combat was merely okay and the land combat was terrible--and certainly much worse than FFXIV combat. One could readily ignore the combat and do other things.
Badly features are only problematic if they can't be readily ignored and the game wouldn't be any good without them.
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I initially found crafting to be rather disappointing. Up to level 5, it's completely stupid. Past that, it gets a little better, but still wasn't very good. Last night when I hit 13 in something, the condition of materials started changing, which could add a lot more complexity, though I haven't played with it enough to have a strong opinion. Is that the last big change that adds a lot more complexity to crafting than seen at lower levels, or is there something left to come that I should be aware of?
IT gets much more complex. You will be getting crafting abilities up to lvl 50 with some of the best ones being lvl 50. you will add 10 more abilities from cross classing other crafts, adding to the complexity and fun.
Stick with it, i think you're going to enjoy it. I have 5 crafts at 50.
Most forum discussions are opinions, but you can either present your opinion in a more objective/convincing way, or present it in a more subjective/biased way.
If I tell everyone WoW is the best MMO ever made, plenty of WoW haters are probably going to disagree because they liked sandbox MMO or EQ more.
If I tell everyone WoW is the best MMO because no other title has this much impact to the industry and make this much money, and no other title has such high production value as a whole, probably only a few would disagree that WoW is the greatest MMO, or at least one of the most successful one. Even if players prefer sandbox/EQ or w/e, it's hard to deny that the reasons I stated is indeed fact.
Present an opinion without telling everyone why often ended up as biased opinions.
Highlighted for the importance. What you prefer is different from outright claiming something is the best, using "you don't have to be the best in everything to be the best" as a reason. You stated the reason why you like it, that is a hundred times more helpful in a "is this game ready?" or "is this game good?" discussion. Whoever ask questions like "is this game ready?" or "is this game good?", they're trying to find out whether the game is something they would like before trying. Maybe the OP is looking for a bigger game that has everything? Telling him "This game is the best, nothing beats it, go try it!" doesn't help him if it ended up not being something he's been looking for.
Now if you stated that the game only focus on something such as animation, the FF-ness or dungeon holy trinity mechanics, then whoever read the forum can decide whether he wants this type of game.
I was thinking of trying this too. Is there some kind of free trial for it?
A lot of places have it for $20 bucks. That gets you the game and 30 days free.....
It may not be a free trial but i think it's a great value. You may hate the game, but at least it's not like ps4/x box where you're out $60 bucks and nothing to show for.
A lot of people who hate on this game actually loved the trek up to 50 with the story content. Again, it's probably the best value right now if you decide to play for only a month... a lot of stuff to do and than it will be up to you if you want ot continue.
Currently playing and plan to still play. To answer your question though the game is SUBSTANTIALLY better than its prior 1.0 incarnation. If you were finding a time to jump on the band wagon then now is the time!
No problems at all with the game with how it is working, I have had no issues with the game what-so-ever. No crashes, no error codes, no graphic based bugs, no popping nothing at all like that.
Now, playing the game with all classes on one character is quite a feat so I would suggest you hook up with a FC as quickly as you can and get the lovely exp bonus they provide, also eat any experience based food also. Note, that you will not be able to play other classes until you have progressed far enough into the story, which is around level 15 or so I believe.
End game content is fine and runs smoothly. Chances are if you are starting to play now, you'll most likely catch the ass end of 2.2 so you'll have even more content to get your mitts into.
Really fun game.
(Note: Not everyone feels the same as I do, but I am very happy with my MMO choice and I don't plan on leaving this game for ESO or EQ or anything).
Actually you very explicitly stated that if every aspect isn't better than others, the game can't be considered "the best one out there." I called you out on that extremely flawed opinion, because it makes zero sense, regardless of the game in question. The concept is hardly specific to FFXIV.
You can make the argument that SWTOR/GW2/WOW is the best MMORPG because the same logic applies to every game. I never claimed you can't.
Actually that is an infinitely sounder thing to do because then ARR can actually be compared to a certain game with concrete attributes, not just "MMO's in general". Obviously no game is going to win that comparison because you can pick and choose the cream of the crop for every attribute. But you never brought anything concrete to the discussion, simply extremely ambiguous claims with no basis. "Other games do X and Y better" is such a meaningful contribution that I must applaud you.
Last but not the least to quote myself "ARR actually has a good shot at being "the best one"" which is not me saying ARR is the best one out there.