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sacredfoolsacredfool Member UncommonPosts: 848

And no, I am not talking about consoles.

Basically, here is the deal. My laptop slowly needs to be replaced. I plan to replace it with a desktop and a small laptop or a desktop and a tablet.

I want a reasonably priced desktop that will be able to run games made for the newest XBO or PS4. Reasonably means below $1000 for the box, and then of course some extra on top of that for the monitor.

I am wondering if I should I replace my laptop now or should I wait 5-6 months?

I haven't been followoing the newest techs recently as much as I'd like to so I am a bit out of the loop. I prefer Intel and nvidia and have used MSI motherboards previously.

EDIT: Forgot to add that I am in Europe (Poland to be exact) so it's more like a $700 budget due to the price differences and all.


Originally posted by nethaniah

Seriously Farmville? Yeah I think it's great. In a World where half our population is dying of hunger the more fortunate half is spending their time harvesting food that doesn't exist.


Comments

  • jdnewelljdnewell Member UncommonPosts: 2,237

    I am not sure about Poland or the market you have available there. But in the US right now is a good time to buy. Just after the Holidays stores are looking to dump the excess inventory and you can get some amazing deals if you shop around.

    I saw you mention PS4 and XB1 ? Many games releasing for those will be console exclusives. There are always cross platform games of course, but the majority of the best titles will be exclusives to those consoles. Especially the PS4.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,130

    There are really only two reasons to wait unless you're planning on waiting most of a year:

    1)  If building a system around the Core i5-4670K is out of your budget, then AMD's upcoming Kaveri chips will be a major advance over the budget alternatives available today when it launches in mid January.

    2)  If you wanted a higher end AMD video card, prices on them are crazy right now due to people buying them up for mining bitcoins and related currencies, and this also prevents AMD from putting the intended price pressure on Nvidia's higher end cards.  But that's probably all out of your budget.

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen Member UncommonPosts: 2,483
    For a PC, you can build a nice one for $1k. For a tablet, a Nexux 7.

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

  • sacredfoolsacredfool Member UncommonPosts: 848

    The market here is fine but sadly no such thing as Black Friday sales. I commented on it since the prices are sometimes a bit different. Usually 20% higher then US because of taxes.

    The reason I want a PC that can match the newest consoles is because they will be the touchstone of the industry for the next 5 years. I don't actually play many games so I am not too worried about exclusives.

    Quizzical, I could possibly afford to build a system around Intels CORE I5-4670K since I do remember it's a great OC chip and I generally didn't hear anything bad about Haswell. It would be stretching my budget quite a bit though since it's $285 here and I am but a poor computer science student. :P I would be more comfortable going with something like one of the better Pentiums I think - I remember looking at those a while back, not sure if they are still good bang for the buck.

    I have used nvidia for the last 10 years and don't plan to switch, couldn't care less about currency mining.

    I know it gets asked a lot, and you probably get bored of answering those questions but what mobo, graphics card and cooling would you guys suggest for around $800 ($1000 including VAT)?


    Originally posted by nethaniah

    Seriously Farmville? Yeah I think it's great. In a World where half our population is dying of hunger the more fortunate half is spending their time harvesting food that doesn't exist.


  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,130
    Originally posted by sacredfool

    The market here is fine but sadly no such thing as Black Friday sales. I commented on it since the prices are sometimes a bit different. Usually 20% higher then US because of taxes.

    The reason I want a PC that can match the newest consoles is because they will be the touchstone of the industry for the next 5 years. I don't actually play many games so I am not too worried about exclusives.

    Quizzical, I could possibly afford to build a system around Intels CORE I5-4670K since I do remember it's a great OC chip and I generally didn't hear anything bad about Haswell. It would be stretching my budget quite a bit though since it's $285 here and I am but a poor computer science student. :P I would be more comfortable going with something like one of the better Pentiums I think - I remember looking at those a while back, not sure if they are still good bang for the buck.

    I have used nvidia for the last 10 years and don't plan to switch, couldn't care less about currency mining.

    I know it gets asked a lot, and you probably get bored of answering those questions but what mobo, graphics card and cooling would you guys suggest for around $800 ($1000 including VAT)?

    Most Black Friday "sales" are a farce, anyway.  Stores will get an item that they intend to sell for $100, then initially charge $200 for it, and before long, mark it 50% off to its "sale" price of $100.  The idea is that people will think it's a great deal because it's 50% off and not care if the same item is $90 at a non-sale price next door.

    -----

    If you can't afford a Core i5-4670K or at least a -4670 (non-K), then wait for Kaveri.  Lower clocked Core i5 processors take a lot off of the clock speed without saving you much money.  The Core i3 processors that are a lot cheaper are bad choices for gaming, as you basically get two cores for the price of six--and those two cores are barely faster than what AMD will sell you in an FX-6350 for the same price.  They probably won't be faster in single-threaded performance than the four cores in upcoming Kaveri chips.

    You may not care about bitcoin mining, but that doesn't necessarily stop bitcoin mining from caring about you.  The problem is if you want to buy a video card, but that card is out of stock because someone else bought out the stock to mine bitcoins and related currencies.  Competitors and alternatives are priced higher because they don't have to slash prices to compete with cards that are out of stock.

    But that really only affects the higher end of the market that you wouldn't be able to afford, anyway.

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,061

    Ironically,

    Haswell is not a great overclocker.

    Sandy Bridge was awesome.

    Ivy does very well, it won't clock quite as fast, but given that it's a bit faster out of the gate it amounts to about a wash.

    Haswell... does less then either of those, it just generates too much heat when you ramp the clocks up.

    Not that Haswell is bad - it's a very nice CPU, and better than Sandy/Ivy at stock clocks (marginally), but in an Overclock race, both Sandy and Ivy beat it, pretty handily.

    Depending on your neck of the woods; Ivy chips tend to be slightly less expensive (Intel doesn't discount them, but vendors often do to clear inventory space), and 1155 motherboards tend to be a bit cheaper ($10-15) than comparable 1150 motherboards.

    Your only really missing out on the "improved integrated video" of Haswell, which anyone in their right mind isn't going to use in the first place.

  • RocknissRockniss Member Posts: 1,034
    Go with the desktop / tablet - You can work anywhere with thr tablet and when your ready for serious gaming you will have that desktop at home. I would recommend i7 8gb ram 1tb hard 256 ssd 750watt gold psu and the sky is the limit with gpu's tight budget? Gtx 660 very nice and price vs performance highest score. want to go high end? I'm not the right guy to ask. I recommend doing a lot of studying before dipping into high end equipment. Prices jump all over the place.
  • syntax42syntax42 Member UncommonPosts: 1,378
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    There are really only two reasons to wait unless you're planning on waiting most of a year:

    1)  If building a system around the Core i5-4670K is out of your budget, then AMD's upcoming Kaveri chips will be a major advance over the budget alternatives available today when it launches in mid January.

    How well do you think Kaveri will compare to Vishera CPUs?  On the OP's budget, they should be able to build a system with a FX-63xx.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910


    Originally posted by Quizzical
    There are really only two reasons to wait unless you're planning on waiting most of a year:1)  If building a system around the Core i5-4670K is out of your budget, then AMD's upcoming Kaveri chips will be a major advance over the budget alternatives available today when it launches in mid January.2)  If you wanted a higher end AMD video card, prices on them are crazy right now due to people buying them up for mining bitcoins and related currencies, and this also prevents AMD from putting the intended price pressure on Nvidia's higher end cards.  But that's probably all out of your budget.

    When you say "Kaveri", are you talking about the A10-78xxk chip(s) coming out? That seems like a very good budget alternative to me. Also, don't those chips pair well with the R7-260x cards as an SLI upgrade? The 260s don't seem to be running out of stock and the performance of the A10s by themselves seem pretty decent (so far), and paired with the right SLI card, it seems like they might even be good, especially for the money.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • jdnewelljdnewell Member UncommonPosts: 2,237

    While Black Friday sales may be a " Farce", year end clearance and dumping excess inventory are not. Black Friday is in November anyways.

    Examples.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113285 $30 off. AMD FX 8320 for $120

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113280 $30 off . AMD A-10 5800k for $100

    Granted not everything is on sale or discounted. But if you have anything like newegg over there you may can save a few bucks.

    Last year at this time I bought two seasonic 550w Gold rated PSUs for less than $50 each after rebate and promo code, Two samsung SSDs for about $40 off each. It just depends on what your looking for I guess. Maybe not a reason to build a PC right at this moment, but if you were anyways its worth shopping around if you have the options.

  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,215
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by sacredfool

    Quizzical, I could possibly afford to build a system around Intels CORE I5-4670K since I do remember it's a great OC chip and I generally didn't hear anything bad about Haswell.

    I have used nvidia for the last 10 years and don't plan to switch, couldn't care less about currency mining.

    If you can't afford a Core i5-4670K or at least a -4670 (non-K), then wait for Kaveri. 

    +1. And if you like to stay with nVidia, I'd say pair up an i5-4670K (if it fits into the budget) with a GTX760. Those are a pretty balanced pair, and costing about 400 Euro around here. From the rest you can get a decent board, 8Gb mem, a good psu and the fluff (case, hdd/ssd, etc.)

    Without the K you can get the 4670 ~30 Euro lower. Or, for the same price you can get the 4670R, intel did a price drop recently on that.

     

    If you wait for the AMD, they will give you a Battlefield 4 bundled with it :)

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,061


    Originally posted by syntax42
    Originally posted by Quizzical There are really only two reasons to wait unless you're planning on waiting most of a year: 1)  If building a system around the Core i5-4670K is out of your budget, then AMD's upcoming Kaveri chips will be a major advance over the budget alternatives available today when it launches in mid January.
    How well do you think Kaveri will compare to Vishera CPUs?  On the OP's budget, they should be able to build a system with a FX-63xx.


    Here is a leaked benchmark photo, so take it with a grain of salt.

    http://wccftech.com/amd-kaveri-apu-a107850k-engineering-sample-spotted-benchmarked-cpuz-gpuz-screens-leaked/

    Based on the single core Cinebench score they show there (which I will preface that using any benchmark in a vacuum is an absolutely horrible way to try to compare CPUs), it comes in around the same speed as the original Bulldozers per-core (the FX-4100 being the most direct comparison).

    Bulldozer issues non-withstanding (another reason this is a flawed comparison, but the best I have to go on given it's all speculative), I would guess Kaveri around 15% slower per core than Vishera currently is on the CPU side (as well as restricted to quad core); however, you would get an APU planning on using the IGP, which is a pretty decent GPU in it's own right. At 512 SPU's on the top bin (with an estimated MSRP of around $170US) that puts it right in between a R7 250-260 in terms of SPU count, and probably performance, and therefor around a $125US value in GPU performance alone. An FX-4300 is around $100US by itself (can often find it on sale cheaper, but probably not half off) -- so if your looking at budget builds that makes the APU extremely attractive, and Kaveri especially so with improved CPU performance.

    All that said, take that with a grain of salt -- the Cinebench score they show on Kaveri there isn't that far off from what Richland would give in the first place on CPU performance. A good chance it's a fake screenshot...

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,130
    Originally posted by syntax42
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    There are really only two reasons to wait unless you're planning on waiting most of a year:

    1)  If building a system around the Core i5-4670K is out of your budget, then AMD's upcoming Kaveri chips will be a major advance over the budget alternatives available today when it launches in mid January.

    How well do you think Kaveri will compare to Vishera CPUs?  On the OP's budget, they should be able to build a system with a FX-63xx.

    Kaveri will top out at four cores, but they'll be faster cores than Vishera has.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,130
    Originally posted by Ridelynn

     


    Originally posted by syntax42

    Originally posted by Quizzical There are really only two reasons to wait unless you're planning on waiting most of a year: 1)  If building a system around the Core i5-4670K is out of your budget, then AMD's upcoming Kaveri chips will be a major advance over the budget alternatives available today when it launches in mid January.
    How well do you think Kaveri will compare to Vishera CPUs?  On the OP's budget, they should be able to build a system with a FX-63xx.

     


    Here is a leaked benchmark photo, so take it with a grain of salt.

    http://wccftech.com/amd-kaveri-apu-a107850k-engineering-sample-spotted-benchmarked-cpuz-gpuz-screens-leaked/

    Based on the single core Cinebench score they show there (which I will preface that using any benchmark in a vacuum is an absolutely horrible way to try to compare CPUs), it comes in around the same speed as the original Bulldozers per-core (the FX-4100 being the most direct comparison).

    Bulldozer issues non-withstanding (another reason this is a flawed comparison, but the best I have to go on given it's all speculative), I would guess Kaveri around 15% slower per core than Vishera currently is on the CPU side (as well as restricted to quad core); however, you would get an APU planning on using the IGP, which is a pretty decent GPU in it's own right. At 512 SPU's on the top bin (with an estimated MSRP of around $170US) that puts it right in between a R7 250-260 in terms of SPU count, and probably performance, and therefor around a $125US value in GPU performance alone. An FX-4300 is around $100US by itself (can often find it on sale cheaper, but probably not half off) -- so if your looking at budget builds that makes the APU extremely attractive, and Kaveri especially so with improved CPU performance.

    All that said, take that with a grain of salt -- the Cinebench score they show on Kaveri there isn't that far off from what Richland would give in the first place on CPU performance. A good chance it's a fake screenshot...

    AMD has been saying for years that Piledriver cores would just fix up some low-hanging fruit on what was wrong with Bulldozer cores, but Steamroller cores (in Kaveri) would be the big performance jump.  Do you really think that given 2 1/2 years to see what went wrong with Bulldozer and fix it, AMD would somehow manage to do worse than before?  I sure don't.  Bulldozer's IPC isn't any better than AMD's own Jaguar cores, and AMD's low power, lightweight core that is supposed to be much lower performance (and lower IPC) than their big cores.

    Kaveri won't have L3 cache, so it could get worse at programs that extensively used L3 cache.  If there are any such programs other than synthetic benchmarks, that is.

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,061


    Originally posted by Quizzical
     Do you really think that given 2 1/2 years to see what went wrong with Bulldozer and fix it, AMD would somehow manage to do worse than before?

    Isn't that exactly what happened with Bulldozer in the first place?

    So, yes, I wouldn't be surprised if for whatever reason AMD managed to do worse than before.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,130
    Originally posted by Ridelynn

     


    Originally posted by Quizzical
     Do you really think that given 2 1/2 years to see what went wrong with Bulldozer and fix it, AMD would somehow manage to do worse than before?

     

    Isn't that exactly what happened with Bulldozer in the first place?

    So, yes, I wouldn't be surprised if for whatever reason AMD managed to do worse than before.

    There have been some massive flops when trying to toss out the old architecture and change a ton of stuff.  See, for example, Netburst (Pentium 4), Radeon HD 2900, or the very Bulldozer cores discussed earlier.  But when you're only making smaller tweaks while keeping the bulk of the architecture in place, to still mess things up royally and go way backwards?  I can't think of any time that a major hardware vendor has done that.

  • ClassicstarClassicstar Member UncommonPosts: 2,697


    Originally posted by sacredfool
    The market here is fine but sadly no such thing as Black Friday sales. I commented on it since the prices are sometimes a bit different. Usually 20% higher then US because of taxes. The reason I want a PC that can match the newest consoles is because they will be the touchstone of the industry for the next 5 years. I don't actually play many games so I am not too worried about exclusives. Quizzical, I could possibly afford to build a system around Intels CORE I5-4670K since I do remember it's a great OC chip and I generally didn't hear anything bad about Haswell. It would be stretching my budget quite a bit though since it's $285 here and I am but a poor computer science student. :P I would be more comfortable going with something like one of the better Pentiums I think - I remember looking at those a while back, not sure if they are still good bang for the buck. I have used nvidia for the last 10 years and don't plan to switch, couldn't care less about currency mining. I know it gets asked a lot, and you probably get bored of answering those questions but what mobo, graphics card and cooling would you guys suggest for around $800 ($1000 including VAT)?

    Don't come to forum then when your precious product is to expensive ok ;)

    Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!

    MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
    CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
    GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
    MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
    PSU:Corsair AX1200i
    OS:Windows 10 64bit

  • sacredfoolsacredfool Member UncommonPosts: 848


    Originally posted by Classicstar
    Don't come to forum then when your precious product is to expensive ok ;)

    What?


    Thanks for the feedback guys! I will probably wait for a little for Kaveri. Depending on it's actual performance I'll either aim for that or hope it makes the prices of other CPUs drop.


    Originally posted by nethaniah

    Seriously Farmville? Yeah I think it's great. In a World where half our population is dying of hunger the more fortunate half is spending their time harvesting food that doesn't exist.


  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910

    So {drawn out dramatic pause}, does that mean that the AMD Kaveri is likely to be a better value for the money over the current crop of AMD apus and compared to buying a discrete cpu combined with an AMD R7260x? Especially considering the AMD gpu can be added later to boost performance in the apu based system.

    GIGABYTE GA-F2A75M-HD2 (rev. 3.0) FM2+ AMD A75 (Hudson D3) HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - $59.99
    AMD A10-7800K APU ~ $169
    Team Xtreme 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2400 (PC3 19200) Desktop Memory Model TXD38G2400HC10QDC01 - $79.99

    Brings the base system price to about $309 plus tax and shipping if ordering from NewEgg. No "deals" as far as I can see, but performance wise this seems like a good deal.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,130

    Just because you buy Kaveri doesn't mean that you have to use integrated graphics, any more than if you bought a Haswell or Ivy Bridge chip.  Indeed, on sacredfool's budget, you're probably better off getting a discrete video card--and not necessarily an AMD card, given his stated preference for Nvidia.

    He might be better off looking at a successor to something like this:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113333

    Lose 1/3 of the graphics, overclock it to match the top bin, and save $20.  Or this:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113328

    Disable the graphics entirely and save $60--and it still has an unlocked multiplier, so you can overclock it however you want.  Remember that Kaveri is primarily a laptop chip, and modern laptops absolutely have to have working integrated graphics, so any chips where the graphics don't work have to be sold in desktops.  With a new process node, there could easily be a lot of such chips.  Or there might not.  We don't know.

    Or maybe Kaveri will drop prices on older generation parts and thereby make them more attractive.  Have you seen what Llano goes for these days?

    Also remember that Kaveri doesn't have the shared scheduling resources between cores the way that predecessor parts did, so four cores at a given clock speed really does get you just a hair shy of 4x the performance of one core, rather than 3.6x like Richland or Trinity.

    Regardless, with the launch of Kaveri less than two weeks away, I'd recommend waiting to see how it performs before making a purchase.  And we might not even have to wait until the rumored January 14 launch, either; CES is next week, and AMD surely wants to show off the parts.

  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856
    Mm!surface pro 2  (updated hardware not the first gen surface pro 2)but I would get a nexus tablet and game on android ,best bang for your $
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