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Tried it again but... no. Just no

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  • udonudon Member UncommonPosts: 1,803
    Originally posted by greatskys
    Combat may not be the best but its hands down the best questing experience I have ever had in an mmo since I started playing them ten years ago . TSW is quite simply one of the best games I have ever played and while its  not perfect I have got a huge amount of gameplay value out of it over the last two years . I can understand why it wouldn't be for everyone because some of the puzzles in it are real brain teasers . 

    TSW is a really good game but I wouldn't dismiss all it's critics as people who can't figure it out so easily.  There are some glaring issues with the game especially in the animations, combat and content scaling areas that either you can overlook or can't.  Not everyone who dislikes the game does so because they are not able to solve the puzzles.

    For me at least when I left around issue 9 the AP curve to really get into the new zone was pretty huge.  A new mostly solo player will finish the story line and issues up to 8 depending on how much repeating of content with about 30-50% of your wheel filled a few weapon sills maxed out, a couple pieces of purple gear and a bunch of blue pieces but than issue 9 assumes you have been grinding nightmare dungeons for the last year and have full sets of purples.  There was (I don't know about anymore) this wall between issue 8 and issue 9 that new players had to scale that wasn't fun to overcome.  The difficulty of scenarios was just a example to me of what was to come.  I can understand why they did it but they built issue 9 for their established fan base not new players to the game. 

    I was really close to buying a lifetime sub to this game before scenarios came out but once I saw the direction the game was headed I decided not to and ended up drifting away from it after that.  

  • Pekish79Pekish79 Member Posts: 91

    it is indeed a difficult game (more difficult then many others) and it need a certain degree of commitment (old school MMORPG)

     

    it clash vs the new generation of everything dumbed down for the public and this is the type of people will scare away

     

    There is no quantity of tutorial that will help a person that doesn't want to invest the time in it, and obviously it require a certain quantity of time invested otherwise if in 10 hours of a super casual player u can get access to everything it will 

    a) have no sense

    b) bore away 99% of the real players

     

    if the defect of TSW is that is a little bit challenging and it take more the a super casual player time to advance those are positive fact not negative if you are not willing to invest in the game there is always the option to buy it with money in the shop (xp potions xp boost etcetc) or admit online game is to demanding and focus on single player gaming where u can keep ur own speed

     

    I think some people only think about themselves without seeing the big picture MMORPG are all about the big picture u cannot pretend is a dress that fit everybody it WILL NEVER HAPPEN because is impossible

  • caveogre72caveogre72 Member UncommonPosts: 30

    This is an old thread, but i see its still alive.  As i check on this game from time to time, thought I would add my 2 cents worth.

     

    TSW was/maybe stil is, a great game.  Even with the clunky combat I liked it. I do agree it was not balanced at all and I think alot of people picked character skills because they worked and not because its what the envisioned their character to be.  I don't care what people say, some skills just didn't compare to others, and yes i know some are meant to work better in PvP instead of PVE.

    Even with that, I flat out loved the character building.  Being able to have 1 character do every role as needed is awesome, even if you do need gear for each role.  I loved the skill wheels, just wish it was more balanced as stated above.

    I really loved the dungeons, it was my first experience at interactive combat and not just bring enough firepower to overcome the obstacle. Even if it was repetitive, it was fun.  And there were many more things comming with the raids and whatnot.

    What drove me away was partially me and mostly my perception of Funcom.

    I was entangled in some of the mass temporary banning for "idling" in a pvp zone.  In my view, it's not my fault they were dumb enough to give points that bought gear simply for being present in a zone instead of actively participating to get rewards.

    The real clencher is how Funcom turned it on the players and blamed us for not behaving as they wanted us to.  At the time it was subscription to play, and I refuse to pay to play and have a game company blame me for their short-sightedness and tell me I have to be their puppet and do what they say when they say.

    I did try to go back after it went F2P.  but by then, as any game will do, once you lose your in game friends and contacts, its much harder to get involved again. But I still refuse to give 1 more penny to Funcom for any game.

  • OrtwigOrtwig Member UncommonPosts: 1,163
    Originally posted by caveogre72

    This is an old thread, but i see its still alive.  As i check on this game from time to time, thought I would add my 2 cents worth.

     

    TSW was/maybe stil is, a great game.  Even with the clunky combat I liked it. I do agree it was not balanced at all and I think alot of people picked character skills because they worked and not because its what the envisioned their character to be.  I don't care what people say, some skills just didn't compare to others, and yes i know some are meant to work better in PvP instead of PVE.

    Even with that, I flat out loved the character building.  Being able to have 1 character do every role as needed is awesome, even if you do need gear for each role.  I loved the skill wheels, just wish it was more balanced as stated above.

    I really loved the dungeons, it was my first experience at interactive combat and not just bring enough firepower to overcome the obstacle. Even if it was repetitive, it was fun.  And there were many more things comming with the raids and whatnot.

    What drove me away was partially me and mostly my perception of Funcom.

    I was entangled in some of the mass temporary banning for "idling" in a pvp zone.  In my view, it's not my fault they were dumb enough to give points that bought gear simply for being present in a zone instead of actively participating to get rewards.

    The real clencher is how Funcom turned it on the players and blamed us for not behaving as they wanted us to.  At the time it was subscription to play, and I refuse to pay to play and have a game company blame me for their short-sightedness and tell me I have to be their puppet and do what they say when they say.

    I did try to go back after it went F2P.  but by then, as any game will do, once you lose your in game friends and contacts, its much harder to get involved again. But I still refuse to give 1 more penny to Funcom for any game.

    Let me get this straight.  You're mad at Funcom because they kicked you for exploiting?  Every game company does that, and you're out of line to think you should be able to exploit at will.

  • caveogre72caveogre72 Member UncommonPosts: 30

    Oh no you don't, let's get this cleared up!  An exploit is creating a situation or taking advantage of an unintended situation.  Which I did neither of,  Funcom said game was working as intended.

    They created the game that way, i was mearly in the game.  I didn't have to do any tricks or find any hidden mistakes in the game.  

    If your perception is not the same as mine, you're welcome to your dillusions.

    After it was know what players were doing, they did nothing to change it.  You can still go in game and do it to this day as far as I know.

     

    Like I said, my complaint is not about the game, but the way Funcom handled their mistake ( or not handled).

     

  • FirstKnight117FirstKnight117 Member UncommonPosts: 108
    Originally posted by caveogre72

    Oh no you don't, let's get this cleared up!  An exploit is creating a situation or taking advantage of an unintended situation.  Which I did neither of,  Funcom said game was working as intended.

    They created the game that way, i was mearly in the game.  I didn't have to do any tricks or find any hidden mistakes in the game.  

    If your perception is not the same as mine, you're welcome to your dillusions.

    After it was know what players were doing, they did nothing to change it.  You can still go in game and do it to this day as far as I know.

     

    Like I said, my complaint is not about the game, but the way Funcom handled their mistake ( or not handled).

     

     

    Are you saying that Funcom intended for players to go AFK in a zone so they could get points/currency for gear? Just for being there?

  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100

    He's talking about Fusang. The zone is set up such that if your team is ahead, a bunch of freeloaders can zone in and sit, hidden, collecting tokens which can be redeemed, en masse, for what basically amounts to top level game gear. It's a slimy act, collecting reward while the people trying have to try doubly hard to compete. However, yes, that's the way it works. You're not exploiting the game, you're exploiting fellow players. So this guy is legitimizing exploiting fellow players. That's the person with whom you're conversing.

    I cannot, in my wildest dreams, imagine why you would go to a gaming forum and discuss how you practiced this and somehow argue it's ok. Takes all kinds.

    edit: It's like an outfielder who places bets to collect profits on the opposing team, then proceeds to sit down in the outfield.

  • vveaver_onlinevveaver_online Member UncommonPosts: 436
    Originally posted by FirstKnight117
    Originally posted by caveogre72

    Oh no you don't, let's get this cleared up!  An exploit is creating a situation or taking advantage of an unintended situation.  Which I did neither of,  Funcom said game was working as intended.

    They created the game that way, i was mearly in the game.  I didn't have to do any tricks or find any hidden mistakes in the game.  

    If your perception is not the same as mine, you're welcome to your dillusions.

    After it was know what players were doing, they did nothing to change it.  You can still go in game and do it to this day as far as I know.

     

    Like I said, my complaint is not about the game, but the way Funcom handled their mistake ( or not handled).

     

     

    Are you saying that Funcom intended for players to go AFK in a zone so they could get points/currency for gear? Just for being there?

    To me it always looked and felt like that was a conscious design decision until they noticed players hiding idle instead of fighting. I don't count idle as exploit in a persistent pvp environment.

  • OrtwigOrtwig Member UncommonPosts: 1,163
    Originally posted by vveaver
    Originally posted by FirstKnight117
    Originally posted by caveogre72

    Oh no you don't, let's get this cleared up!  An exploit is creating a situation or taking advantage of an unintended situation.  Which I did neither of,  Funcom said game was working as intended.

    They created the game that way, i was mearly in the game.  I didn't have to do any tricks or find any hidden mistakes in the game.  

    If your perception is not the same as mine, you're welcome to your dillusions.

    After it was know what players were doing, they did nothing to change it.  You can still go in game and do it to this day as far as I know.

     

    Like I said, my complaint is not about the game, but the way Funcom handled their mistake ( or not handled).

     

     

    Are you saying that Funcom intended for players to go AFK in a zone so they could get points/currency for gear? Just for being there?

    To me it always looked and felt like that was a conscious design decision until they noticed players hiding idle instead of fighting. I don't count idle as exploit in a persistent pvp environment.

    It was never intended that an open PvP battleground be a place where you could hide and sit AFK to collect points that could be spent later.  If GMs found you were sitting idle for too long (and after sending you a /tell with no response) or running into a wall constantly or spinning on the spot for an extended period, you were issued a temp ban.  Perfectly and totally reasonable.  To think sitting AFK for in-game rewards is not an exploit is basically preposterous.

  • mmorobommorobo Member UncommonPosts: 126

    Oh, it's an exploit in my book!

    His words:

    An exploit is creating a situation or taking advantage of an unintended situation.

     

    His actions were making it harder for his team to win and easier for the other team to win for his own personal gain.  So he was on purpose possibly lowering the amount of rewards for his team.  The amount of players depend on the numbers from each faction that are playing.  He was throwing the numbers off by NOT doing what he signed up for, i.e. PVPing for his team.  This was not an intended situation, and he was taking advantage of it.

     

    If rewards were for kills only, then 2 kinds of people would not be there.  His kind that was taking advantage of the situation and those that are new or suck at PVP.  They decided to kick the abusers and reward the new or just plain weak for trying.  And I agree with it.

  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100

    Well, how can you code for that? At one point people wouldn't even leave the death-wall protected zone-in, so they made it where you had to be x-distance outside to collect marks. Even then people would complain, "It's not moral to attack afk players!". Wut? You're in a pvp zone.

    What if the person is doing laps but not trying to do anything? What if the person's sitting in a closed facility, occasionally tapping a directional key while they watch tv? How do you code for people sandbagging anything? Do you say, "If player has not dealt x damage in x time period they're removed? What if there are no opponents for a time? How different is this from a guy who sits in a pve raid only auto-attacking?

    Fusang's alot of fun...when it works. You start to see the variations of builds shine that were intended by the diversity of the skill wheel. When it doesn't, it's because of the quality of character of player participation. How do you fix that in anything?

    I quit doing Fusang altogether because of people like Caveogre (not specifically him because he's an illuminati and even when he tried, after having farmed all those marks and gotten decent gear, he was bad at the game and an easy kill) and that's too bad because I really enjoyed it. I liked zoning in to help people who were trying to work as a team and compete, plus the objectives you "hold" in pvp in TSW yield little buffs over the other pvp zones (1 or 3% but hey, it's something). It's just incredibly frustrating to want to try and basically be trololo'd by defiant people who could give 2 shits.

    So, maybe it is bad design because it "lets", no less "rewards" you for doing that. Maybe you're right. I don't see how to fix it, based solely on human's ability to wreck anything good.

  • YaevinduskYaevindusk Member RarePosts: 2,094

     

    I'd have played it longer -- or to this day, even -- if the combat and animations were better at launch.  Though they decided to go for quantity as opposed to quality in that regard so that they may boast hundreds of skills.  Made a couple characters and bought costumes... eventually purchasing the double ability point potion since every tree I went down, I didn't like the feel of.  Then I had to start over back at the beginning (waiting for the next day for resets) since my ability set was lack luster and I just wanted to play the darn game and have all abilities available to me like in other MMOs (while also getting a feel for the new weapon and learning it).

     

    The setting?  Fantastic.  The concept?  Great.  The writing?  Pretty good.  The story?  Okay.  Missions?  Oft times unique.  But all are for naught if it's a game about fighting, where the fighting isn't that great for a lot of people.  Most of your time in MMOs is spent fighting nowadays.  It isn't like it was back in Ultima Online where you could have a different job, craft and become an artisan merchant or adventurer or something.   Essentially living as a character in the world with matters and events you create for yourself.   Though, I guess some people play FFXIV nowadays without ever touching a battle class.  So maybe we're leaning away from that as a whole.

    Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing).  German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century.  Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now).  I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things).  In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while.  If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.

    Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this.  If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own.  Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis.  Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,968
    I still go back to play it every once in awhile.  Good stories, none flowing combat, lots of useless skills, stuck animations...nice pets and outfits.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • TsumoroTsumoro Member UncommonPosts: 435
    Originally posted by Elikal
    Originally posted by mgilbrtsn
    I enjoy it

    How good for you. ;)

     

    No seriously. I love the setting, so it just saddens me that I find other parts so flawed. :/

    And not "oh it isn't so perfect", but really, really aggravating me.

    You're more than welcome to your view and many will share it with you, I've always enjoyed TSW as an on-off relationship, I enjoy going back and doing the new content, then I wait for more content to come. It is a game that missed the mark, purely because it was so underwhelming in the sale department which prevented all these lovely re-works and fixes we would like, including the monthly content updates that they had initially planned. 

    The sad thing for this game is that I really feel that the mess that was Age of Conan at launch left a very sour taste in a lot of peoples mouths to not really give this a chance at launch, it was a solid game, a few minor bugs sure but was a merry old jaunt and the investigation missions were fantastic for the Lovecraftian in us all.

    The game needs a lot of TLC to succeed, something, alas it will never get. 

  • caveogre72caveogre72 Member UncommonPosts: 30

    Well... shoulda known i'd get flamed, I'm not the best at clarifying things, the point was that it was a bad design and Funcom should have considered how players as a whole would interact with it and how the rewards affected the game.

    Take this for example... 

    You are in Fusang, there are 10 of your faction there, and 1 of another and zero of the third.   All points of interest are under your factions control.  The 1 enemy player gets wasted soon as combat registers on the map, so trying to run to join the fight is not an option. 

    What do you do? 

     

    and as far as the bans go, myself and a friend were both banned while afk AFTER zoning out of Fusang.  True story.

     

    and no, i'm not crying about it, no i'm not a horribly unskilled player whining the game isn't fair because i can't have everything i want.   My complaint was in how Funcom handled this situation, not even admitting any part on their end to allow this to happen.

    People were making tons of marks and getting basically, free gear, which prompted alot of people to participate in idling in that zone.  didn't say i agreed it was a good practice.

     

  • caveogre72caveogre72 Member UncommonPosts: 30

    "To think sitting AFK for in-game rewards is not an exploit is basically preposterous."

    Which I agree with, I was actually referring to comments made by Funcom at the time that the game was working as intended.

    Sitting AFK for rewards should never have been possible, therefore I was placing blame on Funcom for not seeing this comming.

    they did have other reward avenues, they had the missions you could do, so I don't see why they didn't stick to that and remove getting Marks just for being in the zone, even the "losing side" could sit and get a minimal number of marks.  Was it worth it? no, but it was possible all the same.

    I actually preferred the other instanced matches, forgot what they are called.  They were far more productive, but the que times were horrid.

  • mrneurosismrneurosis Member UncommonPosts: 305
  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100
    Originally posted by caveogre72

    Take this for example... 

    You are in Fusang, there are 10 of your faction there, and 1 of another and zero of the third.   All points of interest are under your factions control.  The 1 enemy player gets wasted soon as combat registers on the map, so trying to run to join the fight is not an option. 

    What do you do? 

    This is called embellishment. You're posing a premise which is not entirely true to your behavior.

    If there's no competition, generally people don't report. Even if they do, GMs don't take action. The issue of your ban and subsequent discussion here is not about "when the zone is underpopulated". The issue is, when the stuff is hitting the fan, you're losing half-defended facilities because 6 people on your team are standing still, afk.  When it becomes 8v8 or 10v10v2 in the zone, you are not moving and your team notices this. That is incredibly frustrating and it inspires people, who don't ordinarily report anyone for anything, to report you.

    How do I know? I'll tell you, I've done a lot  of Fusang and I "get" the politics. How did I know who you are and that you're illuminati? Well, aside from the fact you use the same screen name here you use in game, your team mates tell us where people, like you, are hiding so we can kill you. For the first 3 months I encountered you, when you did move, you didn't even bother to slot a pvp build. You've been doing this a long time. Your poor behavior is chronic.

    After the fact, you make these pointed philosophical discussion to imply you're treated unfairly because the system is flawed, but your punishment was like a ratio of 1/30 for your time spent doing this. You should man-up and own it, "yeh I did that because screw your game, it's broken", not defend your actions and pull some Hamlet maneuver, "to pvp or not to pvp in a pvp zone" . Grow a pair if you're going to outright snub your community.

  • caveogre72caveogre72 Member UncommonPosts: 30

    I see you still choose to attack me rather than see a point many share. we were talking about features we didn't like in the game, for me, that was Fusang. 

    Why did I go there then? because the game was VERY gear oriented.  and Fusang gave a ridiculous amount of Marks.

    Did I do the dungeons? you bet, loved them.  but you reach a point where you couldn't even get into a group because you didn't have the gear rating.

    The example I gave you earlier was just that, an example, I did not say that was the conditions of Fusang 100% of the time, but those conditions did exist, I saw it many many times, because once a faction took the upper hand, the opposing side would log out and all was left was some stragglers that ended up getting spawn camped.

    btw, I haven't played TSW in a very long time, so I don't know how you come off acting like you just saw me last week.

    I don't come here to start fights, like i said, i like to check on the game from time to time to see what people are saying about it.

  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100

    Anyone who plays this sees right through every argument in the above post. To touch on a couple issues, for the unaware to whom you seem to be appealing...

    1. Many people do both pvp and pve. You're not getting groups with them to help you because they don't like you because of what they see you do in Fusang.

    2. There are player-made channels in games, specifically "noobmares", wherein experienced players actually sit, waiting for inexperienced players to ask for help gearing.

    3. Join a cabal. For illuminati I recommend Army of Two if you want to do both pvp and pve, but there are many more.

    4. How can you not be geared for the amount of time you spent farming marks?

    5. You know all this and you're arguing from a point of someone who does not. You are feigning incapacity to somehow contribute to your argument that you're treated unfairly.

    You don't need to lie to make friends around here.

    edit: also, you "liked" Fusang enough 7-8 months ago when I first noticed you doing all this. Why didn't you discuss it then? Why is it, now, after you got a short ban, it's an aspect of the game you don't like, which needs to be discussed? Because you were exploiting your community, you thought you were clever, and you couldn't care less. See, your argument is bad.

  • Adjuvant1Adjuvant1 Member RarePosts: 2,100
    Originally posted by caveogre72

    Why did I go there then? because the game was VERY gear oriented.  and Fusang gave a ridiculous amount of Marks.

    This is a separate discussion that should be touched upon by people who know better. Really, the game is not so gear oriented. It's a misconception and a bit of an excuse in some uses.

    In truth there is very little in the game you "cannot do" with 10.2s and an appropriate deck and appropriate stats. The exceptions are going to be particularly effective leeching for under-geared tanks in nm or nm tanking for a zone like facility of slaughterhouse.

    10.2ish fist/pistol or fist/blood heal builds have always been "strong enough" to do the job. 10.2ish dps should pull their 1.8k to 2k dps to be a positive contributor. 10.2ish tank can hold threat, even from rampaging 10.5s provided they keep themselves in some modicum of check. The issue is slotting appropriate skills in your deck and your glyphs. With appropriate deck and glyphs I can parse 1600-1800 in blues ( I know, I just did it, having restarted a toon to play with people around here), and if every dps is pulling that weight, while it's not stellar or winning any races, you'll complete just about any 24/24 encounter.

    Many groups you see in pug lfg want 4k ar or .4.4. This can be for a couple reasons. Maybe they know they have a couple weak members and they need a capable pug to help. Maybe they just want to get the dungeon/dungeons done for the day and didn't wake up saying "I want to carry someone". Whatever, it's fine. There are two ways to remedy this, get a cabal or otherwise get connected socially, like in channel noobmares, and ask for help.

    Later on you get to encounters that seem insurmountable, like 2-6 in facility, 2nd in sh, 3rd in hf, and yeh, you need some specific organization of stats and specific builds, you can't just faceroll them like you do ur draug or eblis.  Those point value totals can be reached with .2s tho. I know, I've done it.

    So anyway, I'm not saying raise a big fit in LFG channel saying, "well I have .2s and that's enough, because you're newb if you think you need .4 to do 18s", even though it's true, but work with people and learn, show them what you know and that you're capable. You'll get in the swing of things and realize suddenly you have all these marks and black bullion you can't even spend unless you make up a reason.

  • stda149stda149 Member UncommonPosts: 3
    edited June 2016

    Players I think like the feeling that the world is a tad more dangerous and difficult than many MMOs.  I think the Ak'ab areas are the ones where mob density is a real problem/challenge. 

    Players like that they have complete control over their look, and that clothes are separate from gear.  Weapons and clothing rewards are plenty visible, and come as rewards for completing missions. 

    Somewhat agreed on the amount of difference in the factions, and in general would like to see more faction-specific content.  The factions have different flavor text for the missions, different cut scenes, and there are differences in clothes and some faction-specific missions, but yeah, there could be more stuff added for faction-specific stuff.  One thing on the table was the Black Ops missions for factions, but this may be a ways off.

    flc star tower - golden palm - chung cu five star -  imperial plaza

  • centkincentkin Member RarePosts: 1,527
    TSW storyline + Tera combat.  You got your TSW in my Tera...  You got your Tera in my TSW...  Yum. 
  • WarzodWarzod Member UncommonPosts: 464
    I liked the game. Don't agree with the OP at all. But that is what the market is about. If you don't like a restaurant, don't eat there. If you don't like a product, don't buy it. Doesn't mean it is bad or that countless other people aren't going to go there or buy it. I know every person likes to think that their opinion is the only one and that everyone else MUST be delusional or a fanbio/hater. Truth is, the game was not for you. Move one, Another pointless thread.
  • QuarterStackQuarterStack Member RarePosts: 436
    edited June 2016

    "To think sitting AFK for in-game rewards is not an exploit is basically preposterous."

    Which I agree with, I was actually referring to comments made by Funcom at the time that the game was working as intended.

    Sitting AFK for rewards should never have been possible, therefore I was placing blame on Funcom for not seeing this comming.

    So basically, "I knowingly did something wrong, but it's someone else's fault that I did, because they should have known I would".

    Wow.

    Welp, that's a sign of the times, folks. People think they can do whatever they want, when or where ever they want, and take zero personal responsibility for it, blaming it on someone else instead.

    Should FC have been prepared better for that kind of thing? Sure. Does that excuse you for doing it? No.




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