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EQNext VS Cryengine MMO

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  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Member UncommonPosts: 1,636

    Well, for starters, you're using a tactic that's all too common in these kinds of posts. You're cherry-picking screen-shots to support your argument. You chos.e the least interesting shots you could find for EQ:N, and then choose these beautiful sweeping vistas for the other games.

    Why not show shots like this one for character and environment art? Or this?

    Why not show environment shots like this?

    ... why choose 3 of the most uninteresting shots available out there for your demonstration?

    Point is, if you're going to do a comparison post of two different games/engines... well, first you should educate yourself a bit more on what it is, exactly, that you're comparing - but I'll get to that. The least you could do, though, is make it as honest a comparison as possible by trying to choose shots that similarly demonstrate both games in the best possible way available at that time.

    Having said that...

    OP's post is a classic case of people confusing Art Style with Graphics Tech. The two are not the same.

    Monster Hunter and those other games are going for a more realistic look, clearly reflected in the art style and the detail of the texture art, the look of the characters, etc.

    EQ:N is clearly going for a more styilzed/paintery/animated look, as evidenced by the look of the characters, the textures, etc.

    Personally, while I love realistically rendered worlds as much as anyone, there's a charm to stylized, more "animated" worlds that I find really pleasing in a way that realistic looking games can never meet. I love the look/style of Wildstar as well, for example. But back on topic...

    It's a style choice, not a technological restriction. That really should say it all right there. But I know it doesn't (which is why people keep making the same poor comparisons).

    Monster Hunter Online could have been made to look like EQ:N every bit as much as EQ:N could be made to look like Monster Hunter Online.

    To put it another way...

    Here's a video demonstrating/explaining the graphics tech behind the Forgelight Engine, which powers Planetside 2, and EQ:N. Planetside goes for a more realistic, but still stylized approach EQ:N goes for a more cartoony/painterly look. Same engine, same graphics rendering tech, two entirely different looking games. It all comes down to the overall style they're using. The Forgelight engine itself is actually quite powerful.

    To put it yet another way, using a different engine altogether. Gears of War, Borderlands and TERA are all made with the Unreal 3 engine. Same engine. Same graphics tech. Same rendering capabilities. Yet they're each completely different looking games. They range from hyper-realistic to cel-shaded and more "cartoony". The difference is the art direction/style.

     

     

  • AwDiddumsAwDiddums Member UncommonPosts: 416
    Originally posted by xAPOCx
    Originally posted by SelfDestructPro
    Originally posted by UtukuMoon
    That lion is an insult to the Val Shar.

     

    Is it really?  And it's "Vah Shir".  I'm not even an old EQ player and I know this is a ridiculous claim.  But, here it goes anyway:

     

    OLD EverQuest Vah Shir

     


    EverQuest NEXT Vah Shir

     

    I have a hard time seeing how the old beats the new.

    And that is the whole problem. You have a hard time seeing things that are right in front of your face.

    I have to agree, the new model is a breath a fresh air compared to the old model, the old animations aswell where so blasted ridgid, always seemed like they where rushing around looking for a toilet to me.

    Plus you can quite easily see this is supposed to be a fierce lion like race, where as the originals never quite portrayed that feeling to me. All ofc just from my point of view.

    Just as the detractors won't be swayed, neither will I when it comes to this graphics engine, I find it both appealing and fun to look at and I look forward to leaping into the game when I get my Alpha invite.

     

     

  • EnrifEnrif Member UncommonPosts: 152

    it shouldn't be EQN vs Cryengine, but Lightforge Engine vs Cryengine.

    You could use Voxel with CryEngine too. but then it would only high res blocks. nothing more.

    CryEngine is great for high res and high Polygon things. but i wonder how big zones and how many players can be on one at the same time.

    LightForge Engine on the other hand was build to make many players on the same time in a seamless world, with good graphics still. 

     

    I could nearly bet that EQN will have a seamless world,without zoning and the possibility to have hundred or even thousand players at the same time in the same area.(examples of past who failed  it : GW2, FF14, Neverwinter).

     

     

    Short answer:

    CryEnigne: Awesome Look, small-medium Zones, few-some Players.

    Lightforge Engine: Good Look, Huge Zones, massively amount of Players

     

    For an real MMO i think the Lightforge engine is the better Engine. CryEngine for MultiplayerGame

  • LlexXLlexX Member UncommonPosts: 199
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    Someone said that EQNext graphics are on par with recent MMO.

    I disagree.

    EQNext is somewhere between the era of WoW and  2013, but it's not even in the ballpark of recent MMO.

     

    EQN graphics is like a HD WoW mixed with Disney, it's nowhere near close to CryEngine graphics.

     

    FYI, Black Desert Online (last picture you linked) is not using CryEngine, Pearl Abyss made their own engine for BDO.

     

    The MMO's which are/will use CryEngine3+: ArcheAge, Kingdom Under Fire II, Bless, Icarus, Warface, Monster Hunter Online, Revival, Civilization Online...

  • NadiaNadia Member UncommonPosts: 11,798
    Originally posted by DMKano

    (EQN/PS2) all DX9 (thats the limitation)

    i agree it's probably a future can of worms

  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member RarePosts: 3,437
    Originally posted by MumboJumbo

    This is more impressive than CryEngine.

    On that front SOE has a very impressive engine to p*ss around with.

    I'm yet to see an MMORPG use CryEngine or Unreal Engine and be impressed bar shiny graphical presentation.

    You obviously haven't been looking then, ArcheAge is more than just shiny graphics when it comes to using the CryEngine 3.

    Just a small demo but you can see more in the youtube link.

    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=archeage+cryengine+3&sm=12




  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 2,141
    I agree this game looks like a sad cartoon, I will not play games that look like they were made for 12 year olds watching Saturday morning cartoons.
  • tom_goretom_gore Member UncommonPosts: 2,001

    Oh by the way everyone who is saying cartoony graphics suck need to play Brothers: A tale of two sons. If you after that still think cartoony graphics suck then... well I guess it's a matter of taste.

    It's one of the most beautiful games I've ever played and if an MMO would look like that it would be the most beautiful MMO in history, probably for a long, long time.

  • azarhalazarhal Member RarePosts: 1,402
    Originally posted by tom_gore

    Oh by the way everyone who is saying cartoony graphics suck need to play Brothers: A tale of two sons. If you after that still think cartoony graphics suck then... well I guess it's a matter of taste.

    It has always been a matter of taste when it comes to the player, I personally enjoy games with cartoon graphics a lot more, especially in RPGs where it just make you feel in another world.

    Also, going with stylized Pixar graphics have many advantage for the developers in term of time it takes to make models and textures, hardware scaling and aging (realistic graphics needs constant upgrade, cartoons looks like cartoon, you can upgrade them once in a while, but they don't require the same amount of upgrades as realistic games do).

     

     

  • VaporsVapors Member UncommonPosts: 407
    Originally posted by SelfDestructPro
    Originally posted by UtukuMoon
    That lion is an insult to the Val Shar.

     

    Is it really?  And it's "Vah Shir".  I'm not even an old EQ player and I know this is a ridiculous claim.  But, here it goes anyway:

     

    OLD EverQuest Vah Shir

     


    EverQuest NEXT Vah Shir

     

    I have a hard time seeing how the old beats the new.

    Old one looks like : GRRR I am badass

    New one looks like : Yay party party, cerials for everyone, this is tiger tastic, and suddenly my biceps growed bigger then hulks one.

  • killahhkillahh Member UncommonPosts: 445

    you know, i hate to interject in yet another one of these oh, so much fun, graphics debates, but, you all are crying about various stages of cartoony.

    wildstar: cartoony, WoW:cartoony,EQN:cartoony, think about it, theres at least another half dozen games that will have cartoony.

    its the gameplay that should matter, not the g-dammned graphics,

    you give me a game that has substance, the graphics wont matter.

     

     

    over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...

  • xAPOCxxAPOCx Member UncommonPosts: 869
    Originally posted by tom_gore

    And in just 5 years we will laugh our asses off at the Cryengine graphics, while the EQNext graphics still look fine.

     

    You mean while the EQNext graphics still look 10 years old? Seeing how they already look 5 years old now. This whole stylized graphics age better talking point is complete and utter bullshit. Wildstar and EQN look dated before they have even launched.

    image

  • tasburathtasburath Member UncommonPosts: 46

    If this game truly is DX9 only that sucks.

    Don't bother buying a high end video card just for this game as the game will only use the dx9 features of the card and the rest will sit idle.  You will just waste money.

    I really hope this is not true for a game being launched in 2014.

     

  • VaporsVapors Member UncommonPosts: 407
    Originally posted by killahh

    you know, i hate to interject in yet another one of these oh, so much fun, graphics debates, but, you all are crying about various stages of cartoony.

    wildstar: cartoony, WoW:cartoony,EQN:cartoony, think about it, theres at least another half dozen games that will have cartoony.

    its the gameplay that should matter, not the g-dammned graphics,

    you give me a game that has substance, the graphics wont matter.

     

     

    I think in this thread its more about the quality and not about the cartoony part of EQN, i mean even games which are 5 years old are playable on DX10.

    And I guess soon theres DX12, how can a game graphicly survive the next years which doesnt support new technologies.

  • Joseph_KerrJoseph_Kerr Member RarePosts: 1,113
    I'll take a voxel based world with stylized graphics over a static world any day, regardless of how good its graphics are. Besides, photo realistic graphics on an mmo never work out how they are supposed to and never actually look real.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,952
    question: an you get the same fidelity to detail in a voxel based, "players can create, change anything" game that you can with a game that has the level of detail of those other pictures?
  • tom_goretom_gore Member UncommonPosts: 2,001
    Originally posted by xAPOCx
    Originally posted by tom_gore

    And in just 5 years we will laugh our asses off at the Cryengine graphics, while the EQNext graphics still look fine.

     

    You mean while the EQNext graphics still look 10 years old? Seeing how they already look 5 years old now. This whole stylized graphics age better talking point is complete and utter bullshit. Wildstar and EQN look dated before they have even launched.

    You can keep claiming that as much as you like, but I'll still take WoW's graphics over EQ2's graphics today. You can keep wishing for your realistic graphics and/or hopping from the newest "realistic" graphics MMO to the next.

     

  • tasburathtasburath Member UncommonPosts: 46

    EQ2's world looks MUCH better than WoW, even today, in my opinion.

     

    The character models, however, are beyond horrible.

  • PilnkplonkPilnkplonk Member Posts: 1,532
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    question: an you get the same fidelity to detail in a voxel based, "players can create, change anything" game that you can with a game that has the level of detail of those other pictures?

    Well you just answered the question that's been bothering hardware manufacturers for quite some time... How to get the players to buy new hardware? Nowadays technical aspects of graphics are not as important as they used to be. Basically, no one NEEDS graphics much better than what we have today on better class rigs in order to better enjoy games. Wii blew competing consoles out of the water in spite of inferior graphics - it is gameplay that matters, allways. The graphics are there only to serve gameplay.

    So, I'll look in my Crystal Ball (tm) and predict: We are to see a huge new wave of voxel based games with new and exciting gameplay concepts. Since voxel-based graphics demand much much more processing power and memory than classical highly optimized engines in order  to produce an equivalent level of graphical fidelity, we now create an exciting new horizon, a goal we (and our buyers) can pursue for years to come - a system which can run voxel based engines on the level of realism and fidelity compared to the one already achieved by vertex-based ones. (i think that's the proper term).

    TL;DR: PS4 is a bork. It brings nothing truly new to the table unlike the first PS which offered true 3D graphics on a console for the masses. A PS5, which could conceivably integrate a high resolution hardware-based voxel engine (high resolution as in high voxel resolution, not just plain old pixel one), complete with realistic physics might just do the trick.

     

  • xAPOCxxAPOCx Member UncommonPosts: 869
    Originally posted by tom_gore
    Originally posted by xAPOCx
    Originally posted by tom_gore

    And in just 5 years we will laugh our asses off at the Cryengine graphics, while the EQNext graphics still look fine.

     

    You mean while the EQNext graphics still look 10 years old? Seeing how they already look 5 years old now. This whole stylized graphics age better talking point is complete and utter bullshit. Wildstar and EQN look dated before they have even launched.

    You can keep claiming that as much as you like, but I'll still take WoW's graphics over EQ2's graphics today. You can keep wishing for your realistic graphics and/or hopping from the newest "realistic" graphics MMO to the next.

     

    And thats fine. You can like w/e you want to. But dont hide behind that asinine argument. Dated is dated. regardless if its realistic or stylized. However, newer games that are coming down the pike like EQN and Wildstar are launching dated. Looking just like games that came out 5 6 even 7 years ago.

     

    And i dont have to "wish" for anything. Those game are being made as i post this. While other games like BD, Repop and AA are taking advantage of the technology they have and are delivering amazing looking worlds. Worlds that are so realistic that you can just loose yourself in them without knowing it. 

     

    And i dont game hope. Dont lump me up with your typical  MMOer with a d d of today. Im searching for a home. A MMO that has depth, charm and community. Traits that are missing from today's MMOs. 

    image

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,410

    Realistic graphics don't age as well as stylized cartoonish graphics. The mark for the former moves much faster than the mark for the latter. That is why, years later, WoW does look better than most games its age. That is why games like Borderlands, Bioshock Infinity, EQN, and Wildstar have a more timeless look.

    EQ2, LotRO, Aion, and AoC all look great, but nothing like what is considered "realistic" by current standards. They have aged much more severely. Additionally realistic graphics can be harder for me to immerse into. I expect to be able to interact with more - it's realistic after all, and most have horrible interactivity.

    I like realism, and EQ2 is currently my main game, but I like it despite the graphics not because of them. Besides, the OPs point is ridiculous. This has nothing to do with the quality and everything to do with artistic preference which is totally subjective. The OP does't like EQN graphics, big deal. I don't think they actually have a point they can prove.

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • ElikalElikal Member UncommonPosts: 7,912
    Originally posted by evilastro
    If you don't like the graphics then don't play the game. No one cares that you don't like the art style. People can make up their own minds whether they like it or not thanks.

    Hey, this forum is THERE that we debate about what we like and don't like! Don't boss people around.

     

    As to the OP: I am on the fence. I don't need photorealism, but some more details would do EQ:N good. Take the graphics of GW2 as example, it looks very lush and detailled without being photorealistic. I hope SOE does tune up their graphics a bit, yet.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • NitthNitth Member UncommonPosts: 3,904


    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Someone said that EQNext graphics are on par with recent MMO.

    I disagree.

    EQNext is somewhere between the era of WoW and  2013, but it's not even in the ballpark of recent MMO.

     

    VS

     


    Its not really about the engine, Look at how those textures and models are produced there is so much more detail the artists have put into the latter you have posted.

    While everquest next, still looks good, it has different art style which requires a lot less detail.

    Mechanically, From what i have seen Lightforge can produce some great effects shading, filters, particles ect that can make ps2 look great on ultra settings. If they put the effort into making realistic looking assets you would have something 'close'.

    imageimage

    The content is similar on these 2 pics which make it easier to distinguish between engine effects. almost look almost identical.

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • tom_goretom_gore Member UncommonPosts: 2,001
    Originally posted by xAPOCx

    And i dont have to "wish" for anything. Those game are being made as i post this. While other games like BD, Repop and AA are taking advantage of the technology they have and are delivering amazing looking worlds. Worlds that are so realistic that you can just loose yourself in them without knowing it. 

    If you claim the games being made today (much less MMOs) look realistic, you need to go out more often.

    That's the problem with "realistic" graphics - they don't look realistic and once you go a couple years forward, they don't even look good anymore, compared to the new games launching then.

    EDIT: I might explain my gripe with these "realistic" graphics a bit further. You talkes about loosing yourself into the game world. Here's the catch (for me). If the game has realistic graphics, everything that fights against that realism breaks the immersion. For example, EVE has gorgeus, realistic graphics, yet I lose my "suspense of disbelief" immediatly when I see ships sliding into each other and pivoting on a central point with zero inertia and mass.

    With cartoony graphics I can forigive much more when it comes to little things like that. Stuff like animations, gear/clothing/hair clipping, etc.

     

  • NitthNitth Member UncommonPosts: 3,904


    Originally posted by SelfDestructPro


     

     

     

    You know I haven't even mentioned that the game isn't even outside of "Friends and Family Alpha" yet.  I know because I bought in to both the Alpha and the Beta and I'm not in yet.  So you're comparing a game (very poorly I might add) to a bunch of games that have been in development or are even close to release in Korea for a long time now.


    To me, those images look great.

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

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