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Worried about direction of SotA

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  • InsaneMembraneInsaneMembrane Member Posts: 130
    Originally posted by superconducting
    Originally posted by InsaneMembrane

    To the OP.

    Did you in fact know that Shroud of the Avatar is a crowdsource game? Do you know what a crowdsource game is? Well if you don't, go google crowdsource and read all about it.

    In short, there is no need to sit on this totally irrelevant forum and cry about things. Why do that, when you can sign up to the SotA forum and actually start making suggestions directly to their Devs and the community?

    I'm glad we have sorted this out.

    Says the guy who got banned from their official forums :)

     

    My advice to you is to open your eyes. I used to be in the blind love camp for RG and devs, but recently I've just been shocked by the huge focus on housing.

     

    Why the HECK are they primarily designing this game for the 20% of the players who could afford to throw money at the game?

    What is going on here?

     

    In that video RG was almost selling his soul, practically advertising the Lord of the Manor mansion as if he was a used car salesman. I could not believe it!

    Do you know how much the Lord of the Manor costs? TEN FRIKKEN THOUSAND DOLLARS!

     

    Yeah that's right, keep designing this game for the wealthy. UN- BE- LIEVABLE is all I can say.

     

    They can't ban all my accounts. I am still there lurking, dont worry.

    Who cares about lord of the manner? You are paying only to meet RG and have dinner at his house for that, big deal. Some people are of course much better off than others, that is life man, can't really do anything about that except do better for yourself.

    The cost of getting all five games is very low, it is not designed for the wealthy, and its price point is better than most. Everything on top of that are just huge carebear items or perks. 

    You that mad bro? You a huge carebear?

  • InsaneMembraneInsaneMembrane Member Posts: 130
    Originally posted by underthebridge
    Originally posted by InsaneMembrane

    To the OP.

    Did you in fact know that Shroud of the Avatar is a crowdsource game? Do you know what a crowdsource game is? Well if you don't, go google crowdsource and read all about it.

    In short, there is no need to sit on this totally irrelevant forum and cry about things. Why do that, when you can sign up to the SotA forum and actually start making suggestions directly to their Devs and the community?

    I'm glad we have sorted this out.

     

    I am not sure whether you mean crowdsourcing - as in players get to create content like their houses,  or crownfunding -- as in money being used to develop the project.

    I think you may have meant the latter, but here's my take on it...

    This game's primary funding is NOT through crowdfunding. Do you honestly think that $2.5 million or whatever is enough to develop a big MMO? With that being said, Portalarium had a legitimate opportunity to raise extra money through kickstarter... housing was available to a select few who could afford it. We were under the impression it was an optional or trivial thing featured in the game. Either way, it was no secret that the game would primarily be funded by other means.

    Now fast-forward to the present moment. We learn that housing has become one of the FOCUS of the game. And month after month, the team keeps trying to push you to buy a house, basement, etc. you name it. Next it will be "Buy an attic to add to your house!".  Surprisingly, their campaign to collect money from houses has continued well beyond kickstarter.

    Please don't tell me that crowdfunding and houses is being used to fund development... they would have ran out of money ages ago.

     

    Portalarium's selected interface to the players is crowd-whatevering. That is how they have chosen to communicate with us, so our only avenue to affect change is to use that method.

    You have a much better chance getting noticed or change over there than you do over here with your finger on the Q button all day long.

    Believe me it happens, not all of it good, but it happens. Some weirdo actually just got axes moved from slashing weapons into a bashing weapon category. Insane.

     

  • InsaneMembraneInsaneMembrane Member Posts: 130
    Originally posted by Gaeluian

    I'm in the wrong business.  $500 for a virtual house?

    Time to go to kickstarter, claim that I'm going to make a great game and see if people will just buy in, then, after a few mil, drop off the face of the earth.

    What a scam!

     

    For you? Not a chance. For the man who created computer RPGs and basically the defining MMO? Hell yes.

  • InsaneMembraneInsaneMembrane Member Posts: 130
    Originally posted by Boneserino

    Its a 6 month update and you people are freaking out?

    Sure there was a lot on housing that's probably what they focused on most the last 6 months and probably what people who contributed want to see.

    But there was other stuff too and I was intrigued by the vids they showed at the end.  Some were nicely done.

    Give them another 6 months and lets see what they have.   Still way too early to get this excited over some houses.

    Why everyone can't just wait for games to be finished, instead of jumping to all these unfounded conclusions, is beyond me.

     

    No, the freak out started long before the 6month demo on this site. It is very sad indeed. :(

  • Aragon100Aragon100 Member RarePosts: 2,686
    Originally posted by InsaneMembrane
    Originally posted by Boneserino

    Its a 6 month update and you people are freaking out?

    Sure there was a lot on housing that's probably what they focused on most the last 6 months and probably what people who contributed want to see.

    But there was other stuff too and I was intrigued by the vids they showed at the end.  Some were nicely done.

    Give them another 6 months and lets see what they have.   Still way too early to get this excited over some houses.

    Why everyone can't just wait for games to be finished, instead of jumping to all these unfounded conclusions, is beyond me.

     

    No, the freak out started long before the 6month demo on this site. It is very sad indeed. :(

    It is no freak out.

    People are concerned about the game.

    If you have issues with it then i think it is good you tell others about it.

    Old UO players believing they are funding the next UO game wont be happy when they find out this game is nowhere close to old UO, it is actually way closer to all the carebear games out there. Even PvP will be a carebear version of PvP.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,163
    Originally posted by Aragon100
    Originally posted by InsaneMembrane
    Originally posted by Boneserino

    Its a 6 month update and you people are freaking out?

    Sure there was a lot on housing that's probably what they focused on most the last 6 months and probably what people who contributed want to see.

    But there was other stuff too and I was intrigued by the vids they showed at the end.  Some were nicely done.

    Give them another 6 months and lets see what they have.   Still way too early to get this excited over some houses.

    Why everyone can't just wait for games to be finished, instead of jumping to all these unfounded conclusions, is beyond me.

     

    No, the freak out started long before the 6month demo on this site. It is very sad indeed. :(

    It is no freak out.

    People are concerned about the game.

    If you have issues with it then i think it is good you tell others about it.

    Old UO players believing they are funding the next UO game wont be happy when they find out this game is nowhere close to old UO, it is actually way closer to all the carebear games out there. Even PvP will be a carebear version of PvP.

    Old UO players should have known better than o believe this.

    It has been quite clear for many many years that RG is interested in creating games that make money,  and this is just a reuse of a favorite old IP in order to draw potential customers in, much as EQ Next is doing.

    But neither game is going to be very much like it's forebearers, regardless how much people hope for differently.

    Walk away Aragon,you are never going to get what you wish, no matter how much you complain about it. 

     

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  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,866

    The game will simply have both Trammel and Felucca built in from start, I don't see the problem. More choices = bigger player base = more money for the devs to add new quality content.

    What I'm worried about is the "pay to win a house" system. The PvP is a non issue.

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  • Aragon100Aragon100 Member RarePosts: 2,686
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

    The game will simply have both Trammel and Felucca built in from start, I don't see the problem. More choices = bigger player base = more money for the devs to add new quality content.

    What I'm worried about is the "pay to win a house" system. The PvP is a non issue.

    How can you say it have a felucca version when it havent? It isnt old felucca just cause the game have PvP.

    There is no non-consensual PvP, no skillbased PvP and full loot is not even decided if it will be in the game. There is no risk vs reward in SotA, PvE players will get same reward in their safe version of SotA.

    If your satisfied with the PvP SotA will provide then we obviously have different demands on the PvP games were playing.

    I want a PvP game as close as possible to old UO and that is not what SotA will bring to the table.

     

  • Aragon100Aragon100 Member RarePosts: 2,686
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Aragon100
    Originally posted by InsaneMembrane
    Originally posted by Boneserino

    Its a 6 month update and you people are freaking out?

    Sure there was a lot on housing that's probably what they focused on most the last 6 months and probably what people who contributed want to see.

    But there was other stuff too and I was intrigued by the vids they showed at the end.  Some were nicely done.

    Give them another 6 months and lets see what they have.   Still way too early to get this excited over some houses.

    Why everyone can't just wait for games to be finished, instead of jumping to all these unfounded conclusions, is beyond me.

     

    No, the freak out started long before the 6month demo on this site. It is very sad indeed. :(

    It is no freak out.

    People are concerned about the game.

    If you have issues with it then i think it is good you tell others about it.

    Old UO players believing they are funding the next UO game wont be happy when they find out this game is nowhere close to old UO, it is actually way closer to all the carebear games out there. Even PvP will be a carebear version of PvP.

    Old UO players should have known better than o believe this.

    It has been quite clear for many many years that RG is interested in creating games that make money,  and this is just a reuse of a favorite old IP in order to draw potential customers in, much as EQ Next is doing.

    But neither game is going to be very much like it's forebearers, regardless how much people hope for differently.

    Walk away Aragon,you are never going to get what you wish, no matter how much you complain about it. 

     

    Your right, we should have known better.

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,866
    Originally posted by Aragon100
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

    The game will simply have both Trammel and Felucca built in from start, I don't see the problem. More choices = bigger player base = more money for the devs to add new quality content.

    What I'm worried about is the "pay to win a house" system. The PvP is a non issue.

    How can you say it have a felucca version when it havent? It isnt old felucca just cause the game have PvP.

    There is no non-consensual PvP, no skillbased PvP and full loot is not even decided if it will be in the game. There is no risk vs reward in SotA, PvE players will get same reward in their safe version of SotA.

    If your satisfied with the PvP SotA will provide then we obviously have different demands on the PvP games were playing.

    I want a PvP game as close as possible to old UO and that is not what SotA will bring to the table.

    http://www.darkfallonline.com/

    Don't thank me, you're welcome. Instead of trying to turn games into what they are not, why not play games which are what you are looking for instead? Maybe because what you want is NOT VIABLE? Because a game like what you dream of just does not work anymore in today's market? Maybe that's because those games like Darkfall failed and suck?

    Not a single time the SotA development team has said this would be a copy of "old UO" with the forced full loot FFA PvP. Not a single time. You, and you alone, imagined this game would be something that it has never been meant to be.

    But whatever... time to use one of the features of this website and stop reading this boring repetitive complaining.

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    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
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  • underthebridgeunderthebridge Member Posts: 7

    Aragorn100,

    I don't think the SotA devs ever had any intention of making an RPG for an experienced gamer. We heard that RG wanted to make a game where low-level players could enjoy it equally well, where you were insulated from unfair PvP attacks, etc. But we never made much of it.


    Now the carebear p2w game is unfolding before our eyes. I am glad I didn't fall for their housing trap. Sad it will probably be a ghost town within a few months of its release.

  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 3,021

    Progress reports are exactly that. They report what has been worked on so far. When a game is designed every single little element to the game is planned out and put on a schedule for completion. This is done system by system which means certain things are not focused on until scheduled which can be further along in development. It DOES NOT mean the game is focused entirely on the current systems being developed.

     

    If the game is 30% completed it will be a mix of several systems nearly complete and many systems using initial place holders that simply are a proof of concept. The last video repeated over and over again that combat was an initial development and would be refined much more later on. 

     

    So you end up with a report, reporting about what has been worked on thus far, not what it will be. A concept many of you seem to be clueless about prior to bitching on the forums. I personally wonder if any of you ever go to a construction site of a building tower and say out loud, "This building has no windows! FAIL!" ... 6 months before the building is even close to completion. Do you hear yourselves? Do you wonder what others around you are thinking when you bypass the "stupid" filter in your brain?

     

    This is also a game where the systems simply allow a player to do what they want and the entirety of the end game is player driven. This means you likely rarely see "end game" epic'ness because it takes players to drive the content which only occurs when the game is both developed and has players. This is the big unknown in a sandbox game though until you actually play it.

     

    My biggest worry as always is how the monetization system will impact the game. 

    You stay sassy!

  • superconductingsuperconducting Member UncommonPosts: 871
    Originally posted by Tamanous

    Progress reports are exactly that. They report what has been worked on so far. When a game is designed every single little element to the game is planned out and put on a schedule for completion. This is done system by system which means certain things are not focused on until scheduled which can be further along in development. It DOES NOT mean the game is focused entirely on the current systems being developed.

     

    If the game is 30% completed it will be a mix of several systems nearly complete and many systems using initial place holders that simply are a proof of concept. The last video repeated over and over again that combat was an initial development and would be refined much more later on. 

     

    So you end up with a report, reporting about what has been worked on thus far, not what it will be. A concept many of you seem to be clueless about prior to bitching on the forums. I personally wonder if any of you ever go to a construction site of a building tower and say out loud, "This building has no windows! FAIL!" ... 6 months before the building is even close to completion. Do you hear yourselves? Do you wonder what others around you are thinking when you bypass the "stupid" filter in your brain?

     

    This is also a game where the systems simply allow a player to do what they want and the entirety of the end game is player driven. This means you likely rarely see "end game" epic'ness because it takes players to drive the content which only occurs when the game is both developed and has players. This is the big unknown in a sandbox game though until you actually play it.

     

    My biggest worry as always is how the monetization system will impact the game. 

    People who read between the lines and have a heightened sense of what really may be going on are most certainly NOT stupid, in fact the opposite is true. Also, nobody said progress reports were the only thing indicating how big of a deal housing would be. Just look at the add-on store and see for yourself.

     

    image
  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 3,021
    Originally posted by superconducting
    Originally posted by Tamanous

    Progress reports are exactly that. They report what has been worked on so far. When a game is designed every single little element to the game is planned out and put on a schedule for completion. This is done system by system which means certain things are not focused on until scheduled which can be further along in development. It DOES NOT mean the game is focused entirely on the current systems being developed.

     

    If the game is 30% completed it will be a mix of several systems nearly complete and many systems using initial place holders that simply are a proof of concept. The last video repeated over and over again that combat was an initial development and would be refined much more later on. 

     

    So you end up with a report, reporting about what has been worked on thus far, not what it will be. A concept many of you seem to be clueless about prior to bitching on the forums. I personally wonder if any of you ever go to a construction site of a building tower and say out loud, "This building has no windows! FAIL!" ... 6 months before the building is even close to completion. Do you hear yourselves? Do you wonder what others around you are thinking when you bypass the "stupid" filter in your brain?

     

    This is also a game where the systems simply allow a player to do what they want and the entirety of the end game is player driven. This means you likely rarely see "end game" epic'ness because it takes players to drive the content which only occurs when the game is both developed and has players. This is the big unknown in a sandbox game though until you actually play it.

     

    My biggest worry as always is how the monetization system will impact the game. 

    People who read between the lines and have a heightened sense of what really may be going on are most certainly NOT stupid, in fact the opposite is true. Also, nobody said progress reports were the only thing indicating how big of a deal housing would be. Just look at the add-on store and see for yourself.

     

    Which is why the payment model is my largest concern for any game. The only caveat to this is that they are still in crowd funding mode and this isn't necessarily a reflection on how it will be after launch. It doesn't leave a great feeling in my stomach so we agree there.

     

    The point of my post though is that it is silly judging where the game is headed when a sandbox game is developed system by system and the majority of the final game play is player driven by using all game systems concurrently. By definition this cannot occur until they are all made. Progress reports are not called Final Game reports for a reason.

     

    I also see nothing list in the FAQs and blogs on their site about having to master 100% of all systems in order to play this game. Going out to explore and raid the majority of time in game which is what many posters here obviously seem to want to do is not so much a game system as a player choice. You don't make a progress report focusing entirely on "Player movement is in game! Now you can go forth and explore!". That is a little redundant.

     

    What I see is a more a game trying to grant players far more freedom in game to do anything they want which clearly includes Viking like raiding for those interested in that play style. It also clearly supports those players not as interested in that sort of thing. The developers are working very closely with the founders and seeing how so many are UO fans (similar to CU being founded by many DAOC fans) I am sure their voice will be heard and head loudly.

     

    Very little on pvp is revealed yet and logically so seeing how early development is. Even CU had not revealed nearly anything specific on pvp and it is a 100% rvr game! Most of what we know is about housing as well which is about world building to set the stage for rvr which is extremely important for the game even if you have no interest in it.

     

    Basically it is still too early to judge and be thankful your voice can be heard if you pledged. If EQ were making an UO game you would have zero impact on it's development.

     

    As to my insult (If I insult it is to those worthy of receiving it. If you are not then ignore it), it refers to people making assumptions and them basing their opinion entirely around it despite there being no facts to back it up. You can have an opinion but until this game is released and YOU have played it your opinion should be fluid with every consideration possible for change once new evidence is presented. We simply do not know enough about the game. Developers rarely reveal content until proof of concept is locked into place ... even in a player funded game. 

    You stay sassy!

  • golden.radishgolden.radish Member UncommonPosts: 12

    So, a little more to be concerned about, from yesterday. Here's the official thread, which seems to be trying to offer some kind of clarification regarding when Kickstarter Backers will get a chance to select their reward in game.

    A quick review of the thread shows those that backed the game prior to April 7th are not getting what was promised in April, specifically, from this post.

    The upshot appears to be, Portalarium promised something in the past, when they had no money, and now that they have the money, they're giving the big middle finger to all those that helped them out.

    So, with respect to the OP, yeah, I'm a little worried about the direction of SotA.  This is just dirty pool.  You don't slap your early backers in the face.

    Oh, and on top of that?  The community chat was shut down because people were talking about this decision.  So yeah, more badness. :(

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Member UncommonPosts: 3,713
    There's enough other MMOs out there. This one looks to be different. It is a brilliant tactic on their part though as I only got the $140 explorer level pledge which doesn't come with housing :(. Makes me considering upping.

    image
  • BilgatoBilgato Member UncommonPosts: 24
    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    There's enough other MMOs out there. This one looks to be different. It is a brilliant tactic on their part though as I only got the $140 explorer level pledge which doesn't come with housing :(. Makes me considering upping.

    And they have you exactly where they want you...in front of the cash-register with your wallet in your hand. ; )

  • joe2721joe2721 Member UncommonPosts: 171

    I am not spending that kind of money  to own a house. However it makes sense that housing is  a big deal. In Ultima Online housing was huge. Infact during its prime on the the larger shards housing was limited, I sold a gm tamer with a castle for $650.00. So it does make sense that this game would try to recapture some of that.

     

    image
  • MargulisMargulis Member CommonPosts: 1,614
    Seems to me they are focusing on it a lot because it's what they consider one of their current strengths and not something you see every day in mmo's - quality open world non instanced housing.  It's what tons of people have been asking for in the genre so of course they are going to flaunt it.  They were already showing off a lot of combat in the 6 month video so what are you freaking out about?  Sounds more like you just don't like housing so making a huge stink that they are putting a lot into it.
  • ArtaiosArtaios Member UncommonPosts: 550

    i get the sota newsletter.

    and every time ive read it its only about buying some overpriced ingame items.
    no progress no patchnotes no gameplay.

    i feel pitty for all the people buying that stuff and financing a bad game that maybe never will hit final status.

  • AstrobiaAstrobia Member Posts: 23

    A couple of things... I think you'll find with the exception of a few obvious trolls you'll find most people are happy with the plans for lot selection priority. The compromise they have come up with does keep true to the wording of their original promises without giving the middle finger to new or high pledging backers.

    The game is not entirely about housing. It's just a very easy feature for them to set up and show off early. The game is a full 40+ hour single player story in the ilk of the classic ultimas with ultima 7 been the benchmark they are aiming for as well as a huge interactive online sandbox with a dynamic map and living breathing world. With NPC's running around on schedules, events triggering autonomously without dev input in response to seasonal triggers, astronomical triggers (moon phases), NPC faction dominance and player actions. None of that needs a house to take part in or enjoy.

    The SotA chat was not shut down for discussing that issue, in fact the issue was heavily discussed on the forums in the absence of the chat and on the chat again as soon as it came back up. The chat was shut down because certain members were using it to make ad hominem attacks against the devs direct to their face.

    That said shutting down the chat was the wrong reaction and I believe the devs realised that as they opened it up again earlier than announced. The extremes of their responses are interesting. They shut the chat down as a kneejerk reaction but have yet to issue a permanent ban to anyone... Normally their publisher handled all this community management stuff for them so they seem to be struggling with it like a fish out of water. They are learning though.

     

    As for the last comment about the game never been delivered and their being no development... You couldn't be more wrong. If you actually pledges and were participating in the monthly prealpha test builds you'd see they are making rapid progress. Most members of the community are utterly shocked with how fast the new content and systems are coming online. Each build so far has pretty much been twice as large as the last one in terms of content AND features... The rate seems to be picking up to boot. You only see new announcements in the weekly updates which yeah, doesn't include the build progress as thats not news, since they outlined their milestones for the gameplay development process months ago. http://ow.ly/u4JAJ To date they've only had one slip in meeting their projected timeline and that was by one week and only because they added in jumping and swimming due to community feedback.

  • Deerhunter71Deerhunter71 Member Posts: 527
    I became worried about this game once I heard their awful idea of combat being a card game.  Sorry but HUGE turn off and I think is just horrible.  I want my skill to matter not luck based on some cards...
  • AstrobiaAstrobia Member Posts: 23
    Originally posted by Deerhunter71
    I became worried about this game once I heard their awful idea of combat being a card game.  Sorry but HUGE turn off and I think is just horrible.  I want my skill to matter not luck based on some cards...

    Now that's a criticism I can agree with. The combat system is currently my biggest concern with the game... They system they've proposed I think can actually work, but not as they've currently outlined it... There response is to wait and at least try it before dismissing it as they think they have ideas about how to make it work, but it doesn't on paper. That said they have promised they'll listen to the feedback and if too many people declare it simply is not fun after they have tried they are willing to completely scrap it and start over on combat.

    Still it might not come to that. The system does have potential if they do it right... Which means letting your skill be a factor and not strictly locking you into luck of the draw. Because I agree that would be terrible. There's a large group up us just waiting for release 5 to roll around so we can bombard them with feedback on that issue. But yeah if combat is your primary concern I definitely agree it's worth taking a wait an see before committing approach. I love this team but lets face it, they aren't known for their combat systems. Hopefully the community can steer them in the right direction.

  • Aragon100Aragon100 Member RarePosts: 2,686
    Originally posted by Deerhunter71
    I became worried about this game once I heard their awful idea of combat being a card game.  Sorry but HUGE turn off and I think is just horrible.  I want my skill to matter not luck based on some cards...

    Agree.

    Making player skills matter will give the casual player hard times and that is something developers of SotA do their best to avoid.

    This is a carebear game so of course they create a carebear PvP system. 

    Just cause it is the creator of UO wont make the game old UO. 

  • Aragon100Aragon100 Member RarePosts: 2,686
    Originally posted by Astrobia

    A couple of things... I think you'll find with the exception of a few obvious trolls you'll find most people are happy with the plans for lot selection priority. 

    Havent seen any trolls here and i suggest you report them you find to be trolls cause trolling isnt allowed over here you know.

    And your wrong, most isn't happy.

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