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Worried about direction of SotA

Hello everyone. I have been lurking around these forums for awhile but decided to join today and will start by voicing some of my concerns about this game.

First of all, if you haven't watched the 6 month progress video of Shroud of the Avatar please watch it on the their website.

So, what are your thoughts? As a non-citizen backer, here's what I think --

1. This game is going to be all about HOUSING! WTH??  I do not want to live in a VIRTUAL house, decorate a room with VIRTUAL chairs, pictures etc. from the game. If I wanted to do that, I could play The Sims or Second Life. A little simulation in a game ok... but this to the extreme. It seems they have forgotten that before this a virtual world, it is a GAME. And a game is supposed to be fun because of something called GAMEPLAY. I think they are making a big mistake by neglecting the the actual game (quests, stories, fighting, players etc) so early in development. Instead, they are bringing housing to the forefront and treating it as one of the main pillars of the game. You almost seem at a disadvantage not to own a house.

 

2. If housing requires a $200+ investment just to have the minimum deed+property (some say $500 for citizen makes most sense), HOW DO THEY EXPECT TO GET A DECENT PLAYERBASE?

Are they seriously setting themselves up for failure? This model will never work. The only people who will populate the game will be die-hard fans. It will have a hard time becoming a widely played MMO. I don't think anyone in their right mind can pay that kind of money for a video game (no, correction-- video simulation). Casual gamers like myself will go elsewhere. But wait, there's more...

 

3. If you do not pay this money UPFRONT, well SORRY, you lost your chance to own a house for a long time (until episode 2?)

So let me get this straight... the game is not even near launch yet. We do not know how successful it will be. You expect me to shell out serious cash and take a huge risk like that without even knowing how things will turn out.

 

I hope I am wrong. I think the dev team is doing some great work, but their direction is seriously flawed and I don't know who is responsible, whether it's Richard Garriott or someone else.

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Comments

  • superconductingsuperconducting Member UncommonPosts: 871
    I hear you bro.

    Update after update, much of what I've seen is housing.
    In the six-month progress video, the entire first half was dedicated to housing.
    Richard Garriott, stating himself in that video that "Property player ownership we think is one of the major features, major attractions of Shroud of the Avatar."
    Almost the entire add-on store, dedicated to housing.

    Do you catch my drift yet? The majority of what we've been seeing is housing, housing, housing... and more housing.

    A feature that's expected to be enjoyed by an estimated 20% of players. Really?

    Is this what the project intended to do? Cater primarily to the minority of players who payed an arm and a leg to own a house?

    Is this what the project intended to do? Run a cash shop a year before the game is released?


    What is happening to SotA? What is happening to the game I've been looking so forward to? Why is the RPG I've been dreaming of suddenly turning into a cash-grabbing scheme?


    Just look at some of the comments on the latest newspost http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/935/view/news/read/28977/Shroud-of-the-Avatar-Richard-Garriott-Hosts-a-6Month-Progress-Video.html. The community is slowly but surely turning away. Before you know it, a huge portion of the community will be lost. An mmorpg without its community cannot stand.

    I have been a strong supporter and backer of SotA since its inception. But I can't help but think this project now has its hands extended out WAY too far. I don't think anybody could have foreseen things going this far at the time of the kickstarter.

    With the most sincere of intentions and utmost respect, I strongly urge Richard Garriott and devs to please curtail these money-centric tactics that none of us had backed this project for. We believed in you because we thought you believed in ALL of us, not just those with deep pockets.

    image
  • udonudon Member UncommonPosts: 1,803

    I don't think the game is going to be all about housing I just thing that was the theme they decided to focus on this time as thats the parts of the game they are currently working on.

    I guess my feeling on the supporter lots is that as long as the number of open lots far exceeds the number of early adopters so what?  I'm going to assume that given how much revenue they stand to make off of house and house related item sales that if a person wants to buy a lot they are going to make sure there is one available for you to buy.  It might not be in the exact spot or town you want but you will be able to spend your money if you want after launch.  It would be stupid of them not to.

  • Ender4Ender4 Member UncommonPosts: 2,247

    Ultima Online was a really awful game. I know you have this nostalgia about it but the PvE was awful, the game was exploitable as heck and the netcode itself was bad even given the times. Lord Brittish made some great single player RPG when it wasn't a flourishing market but there is no reason to think he can make an awesome MMORPG.

  • InsaneMembraneInsaneMembrane Member Posts: 130

    To the OP.

    Did you in fact know that Shroud of the Avatar is a crowdsource game? Do you know what a crowdsource game is? Well if you don't, go google crowdsource and read all about it.

    In short, there is no need to sit on this totally irrelevant forum and cry about things. Why do that, when you can sign up to the SotA forum and actually start making suggestions directly to their Devs and the community?

    I'm glad we have sorted this out.

  • iridescenceiridescence Member UncommonPosts: 1,552

    I share some of the OP's concerns as a backer. I don't care about housing, probably wouldn't spend $5 to own a house in a game and, while this may sound bad, don't even mind if RG makes some money off the sucker fat cats who think that a bunch of pixels in a game to stroke their ego with is  is worth hundreds (thousands?!) of dollars. But I don't want housing to be a focus of the game. It should be a very to the side and minor thing like it is in LOTRO. I only hope he will see reason about this. Most players don't care at all about housing, we want an RPG not a real estate simulator.

     

  • InsaneMembraneInsaneMembrane Member Posts: 130
    Originally posted by iridescence

    I share some of the OP's concerns as a backer. I don't care about housing, probably wouldn't spend $5 to own a house in a game and, while this may sound bad, don't even mind if RG makes some money off the sucker fat cats who think that a bunch of pixels in a game to stroke their ego with is  is worth hundreds (thousands?!) of dollars. But I don't want housing to be a focus of the game. It should be a very to the side and minor thing like it is in LOTRO. I only hope he will see reason about this. Most players don't care at all about housing, we want an RPG not a real estate simulator.

     

     

    I dont do housing either, but I certainly will not argue with those fat cats paying for their housing to improve my game for me :P 

    That is exactly what is happening by the way, you should find different ways of looking at things. 

  • Swedish_ChefSwedish_Chef Member Posts: 213

    Indeed. All we've really seen so far is housing, a feature which (excessively) Greedy Garriott has effectively locked people who can't afford $100+ out of. I didn't back this game so I could miss out on what looks like a huge chunk of content; had Greedy Garriott been more clear on what he intended to do with housing during the Kickstarter, I'd never have backed him.

    It's looking as though this game will be all about the cash shop.

  • InsaneMembraneInsaneMembrane Member Posts: 130

    At no point in time did anyone promise free housing to the masses. From the beginning the Devs have been upfront about the limited housing and why they are doing it.

     

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148Member CommonPosts: 6,690
    LOL the game is not going to be all about housing. There will be combat, places to explore and kill stuff. There is a main storyline as well. They seem to be promoting the housing now because it is a way for them to make extra money. I see no problem with that right now. You can also earn houses in the game. Perhaps you will not earn a house right away but you'll get there eventually.
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  • RaquisRaquis Member RarePosts: 1,020

    I payed  for 5 years and their is no way ill buy a house.

    we will se if the game is good,its all about questing for me.

    crowdfunding is great but you take a chance atleast we can tell the devs what we want.

    I will not fund quickly again but I am glad to see all the interesting games being made,it can only make gaming grow.

    and cause of our corrupt incompetent anc government in south-Africa we are at 10 rand to the dollar now so I have to watch my expenditure.

  • Aragon100Aragon100 Member RarePosts: 2,686
    Originally posted by superconducting


    With the most sincere of intentions and utmost respect, I strongly urge Richard Garriott and devs to please curtail these money-centric tactics that none of us had backed this project for. We believed in you because we thought you believed in ALL of us, not just those with deep pockets.

    SotA developers just about only care about the players that have deep pockets. They even have a special secluded forum for them where they communicate with them but not with the ones that just handed them 45 $, we with less money dont seem to be that interesting for them.

    When features are discussed you can see polls and deeper discussions over at the developer forums where the ones with deep pockets are.

    Why do the ones with deeper pockets have a bigger impact on the future game?

    That's at least what it seems like.

  • Aragon100Aragon100 Member RarePosts: 2,686
    Originally posted by InsaneMembrane

    To the OP.

    Did you in fact know that Shroud of the Avatar is a crowdsource game? Do you know what a crowdsource game is? Well if you don't, go google crowdsource and read all about it.

    In short, there is no need to sit on this totally irrelevant forum and cry about things. Why do that, when you can sign up to the SotA forum and actually start making suggestions directly to their Devs and the community?

    I'm glad we have sorted this out.

    You need to pay alot of money to take part in the developer forums, thought you knew that?

    And since when is MMORPG.com a irrelevant forum? =)

    This is the place most players read up on games to see if it is something for them.

     

  • Aragon100Aragon100 Member RarePosts: 2,686
    Originally posted by ThomasN7
     You can also earn houses in the game. Perhaps you will not earn a house right away but you'll get there eventually.

    You might be able to buy a already placed house for alot of real life money but getting a house ingame for ingame money i very much doubt.

  • SlampigSlampig Member UncommonPosts: 2,342
    Originally posted by Swedish_Chef

    Indeed. All we've really seen so far is housing, a feature which (excessively) Greedy Garriott has effectively locked people who can't afford $100+ out of. I didn't back this game so I could miss out on what looks like a huge chunk of content; had Greedy Garriott been more clear on what he intended to do with housing during the Kickstarter, I'd never have backed him.

    It's looking as though this game will be all about the cash shop.

    Huh?

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • RocknissRockniss Member Posts: 1,034
    You have valid concerns, but don't worry just let things shake down and see what comes of it. The game looks cool but just like with everything else if its out of wack in terms of industry standard, it will dissappear or evolve. Let it be, keep a circumspect eye and in the mean time enjoy what we have. - Peace my friend
  • InsaneMembraneInsaneMembrane Member Posts: 130
    Originally posted by Aragon100
    Originally posted by superconducting


    With the most sincere of intentions and utmost respect, I strongly urge Richard Garriott and devs to please curtail these money-centric tactics that none of us had backed this project for. We believed in you because we thought you believed in ALL of us, not just those with deep pockets.

    SotA developers just about only care about the players that have deep pockets. They even have a special secluded forum for them where they communicate with them but not with the ones that just handed them 45 $, we with less money dont seem to be that interesting for them.

    When features are discussed you can see polls and deeper discussions over at the developer forums where the ones with deep pockets are.

    Why do the ones with deeper pockets have a bigger impact on the future game?

    That's at least what it seems like.

     

    You may wish to skool up on the crowd source business model bro. Seems like you don't quite understand how it works.

     

  • Aragon100Aragon100 Member RarePosts: 2,686
    Originally posted by InsaneMembrane
    Originally posted by Aragon100
    Originally posted by superconducting


    With the most sincere of intentions and utmost respect, I strongly urge Richard Garriott and devs to please curtail these money-centric tactics that none of us had backed this project for. We believed in you because we thought you believed in ALL of us, not just those with deep pockets.

    SotA developers just about only care about the players that have deep pockets. They even have a special secluded forum for them where they communicate with them but not with the ones that just handed them 45 $, we with less money dont seem to be that interesting for them.

    When features are discussed you can see polls and deeper discussions over at the developer forums where the ones with deep pockets are.

    Why do the ones with deeper pockets have a bigger impact on the future game?

    That's at least what it seems like.

     

    You may wish to skool up on the crowd source business model bro. Seems like you don't quite understand how it works.

     

    What was it you didnt understand?

    They have made their choises with how their version of crowdsourcing works and i dont approve with their choices.

    Having a certain forum for the ones with deep pockets is nothing but an insult to the ones with less real life economy.

  • PieRadPieRad Member Posts: 1,108

    It's a risk you take when you hand over your hard earned cash for an idea, and maybe, eventually a game...

    The idea you paid for, can be something else entirely when it launches, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

     

    Stop backing random people on KS, or accept the fact that you're throwing money out the window.. If you keep insisting to throw out your money, then perhaps you'd like to know my paypal?

     

    image

  • InsaneMembraneInsaneMembrane Member Posts: 130
    Originally posted by Aragon100
    Originally posted by InsaneMembrane
    Originally posted by Aragon100
    Originally posted by superconducting


    With the most sincere of intentions and utmost respect, I strongly urge Richard Garriott and devs to please curtail these money-centric tactics that none of us had backed this project for. We believed in you because we thought you believed in ALL of us, not just those with deep pockets.

    SotA developers just about only care about the players that have deep pockets. They even have a special secluded forum for them where they communicate with them but not with the ones that just handed them 45 $, we with less money dont seem to be that interesting for them.

    When features are discussed you can see polls and deeper discussions over at the developer forums where the ones with deep pockets are.

    Why do the ones with deeper pockets have a bigger impact on the future game?

    That's at least what it seems like.

     

    You may wish to skool up on the crowd source business model bro. Seems like you don't quite understand how it works.

     

    What was it you didnt understand?

    They have made their choises with how their version of crowdsourcing works and i dont approve with their choices.

    Having a certain forum for the ones with deep pockets is nothing but an insult to the ones with less real life economy.

    Well that is your opinion. You can have it. Short of an act of god, no person in the world is going to change you off it and I'm pretty sure everyone here is clear what your opinion is.

    Is the fact that this Dev+ forum exists at the very core of all your dislike? Is that driving you to see the entire project in a dark shady place to begin with?

    Perhaps if they didn't have the Dev+ forum, would you be more willing to contribute to the SotA forum more?

  • superconductingsuperconducting Member UncommonPosts: 871
    Originally posted by InsaneMembrane

    To the OP.

    Did you in fact know that Shroud of the Avatar is a crowdsource game? Do you know what a crowdsource game is? Well if you don't, go google crowdsource and read all about it.

    In short, there is no need to sit on this totally irrelevant forum and cry about things. Why do that, when you can sign up to the SotA forum and actually start making suggestions directly to their Devs and the community?

    I'm glad we have sorted this out.

    Says the guy who got banned from their official forums :)

     

    My advice to you is to open your eyes. I used to be in the blind love camp for RG and devs, but recently I've just been shocked by the huge focus on housing.

     

    Why the HECK are they primarily designing this game for the 20% of the players who could afford to throw money at the game?

    What is going on here?

     

    In that video RG was almost selling his soul, practically advertising the Lord of the Manor mansion as if he was a used car salesman. I could not believe it!

    Do you know how much the Lord of the Manor costs? TEN FRIKKEN THOUSAND DOLLARS!

     

    Yeah that's right, keep designing this game for the wealthy. UN- BE- LIEVABLE is all I can say.

    image
  • underthebridgeunderthebridge Member Posts: 7
    Originally posted by InsaneMembrane

    To the OP.

    Did you in fact know that Shroud of the Avatar is a crowdsource game? Do you know what a crowdsource game is? Well if you don't, go google crowdsource and read all about it.

    In short, there is no need to sit on this totally irrelevant forum and cry about things. Why do that, when you can sign up to the SotA forum and actually start making suggestions directly to their Devs and the community?

    I'm glad we have sorted this out.

     

    I am not sure whether you mean crowdsourcing - as in players get to create content like their houses,  or crownfunding -- as in money being used to develop the project.

    I think you may have meant the latter, but here's my take on it...

    This game's primary funding is NOT through crowdfunding. Do you honestly think that $2.5 million or whatever is enough to develop a big MMO? With that being said, Portalarium had a legitimate opportunity to raise extra money through kickstarter... housing was available to a select few who could afford it. We were under the impression it was an optional or trivial thing featured in the game. Either way, it was no secret that the game would primarily be funded by other means.

    Now fast-forward to the present moment. We learn that housing has become one of the FOCUS of the game. And month after month, the team keeps trying to push you to buy a house, basement, etc. you name it. Next it will be "Buy an attic to add to your house!".  Surprisingly, their campaign to collect money from houses has continued well beyond kickstarter.

    Please don't tell me that crowdfunding and houses is being used to fund development... they would have ran out of money ages ago.

  • GaeluianGaeluian Member UncommonPosts: 114

    I'm in the wrong business.  $500 for a virtual house?

    Time to go to kickstarter, claim that I'm going to make a great game and see if people will just buy in, then, after a few mil, drop off the face of the earth.

    What a scam!

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,404

    Where did you get the idea housing and simulation were just ancillary features? I always got the impression from their KS and reveals that housing, crafting, and simulation was a huge part of the game. I really don't think they have misrepresented themselves about this at all, especially given Garriott's history with game design.

    I didn't mind that, but their housing sales looked very expensive to me: $200 - $500 for nice setups. It's one reason I haven't funded the game yet, that and I don't know how pvp among other systems will turn out.

    If the game launches and it's not what I want then I won't play it. I'm not going to play a vassal to a bunch of early adopters who bought their titles and positions. Now if the gameplay appeals to me and I play on a relatively even field with the opportunity to advance as any other, then maybe I'll give it a go.

    Early adopters and funders donated money on an assumption, but the fact is none of those systems were set in stone and many of them not even well defined. It sounds to me like you had your own concept of what the game would mean and I can understand that, but the reality isn't matching up and there was nothing saying it would. If you're not willing to fund a vague concept and accept the final results however the cake ends up baked, then it's probably best to wait for the final product before investing your money and time into the project.

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,858
    Originally posted by Ender4

    Ultima Online was a really awful game. I know you have this nostalgia about it but the PvE was awful, the game was exploitable as heck and the netcode itself was bad even given the times. Lord Brittish made some great single player RPG when it wasn't a flourishing market but there is no reason to think he can make an awesome MMORPG.

    I'm going to vote no and disagree with you on this. Of course it is your opinion, but UO was an awesome game and still is for it's style. Nothing awful lasts this many years and has so many fans associated with it. 

    As far as SotA goes, I will have to play it before making my mind up about it. It looks interesting and I like the idea of the housing, especially if it holds the same ideas that UO has.

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • BoneserinoBoneserino Member UncommonPosts: 1,767

    Its a 6 month update and you people are freaking out?

    Sure there was a lot on housing that's probably what they focused on most the last 6 months and probably what people who contributed want to see.

    But there was other stuff too and I was intrigued by the vids they showed at the end.  Some were nicely done.

    Give them another 6 months and lets see what they have.   Still way too early to get this excited over some houses.

    Why everyone can't just wait for games to be finished, instead of jumping to all these unfounded conclusions, is beyond me.

    FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

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