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I believe the violence in nearly all mmorpg's caters to our "inner battle" when us battlecowboys deal with a massive multiplayer environment!
Originally posted by zethcarn MMO will continue to be boring pieces of crap if they continue to make solo quest to max level content their #1 priority.
There must be a reason that most mmo's that used to be tough enough to need grouping to play them morphed into solo friendly games.
Ultima Online during its early days was at times the best mmo there has ever been since it mixed pvp'rs with non pvp'rs which made it a great feeding frenzy for those that need to dominate others to have fun and at the same time provided a dangerous world for the non-pk types to try and survive in while they did their things. But if was failing as a business so it had to change.
Everquest (not going to say the first one as that name will always mean something unique to me) while not a pvp game was not easy and if you didn't group you were setting yourself up for a long slow and difficult path. The difficulties are legend now but apparently it had to change also.
I spent 3 years in both from the beginning in both and I wouldn't trade those memories for anything but it seems that now the typical gamer looks for different things now (status, glory and things to brag about with others) so the developers have had to adapt to compete. I'm not sure what would happen to a new mmo existed now that required grouping. I'm guessing it would fail horribly as a business.
"The acronym, "MMO", means Massive MULTIPLAYER Online, the operative word being multiplayer. Yet even in today's crowded MMO market, there are many games that never necessitate any human interaction, that allow players to be Forever Alone should they choose to be so."
You lose the debate with your first paragraph. You seem to think that MMO means Massively Grouped Online, it doesn't. MMO means a game with a massive amount of people playing the same game, online. Oh, and I also agree you're a troll.
However, I want to play in your trollish game so I'll match your opinion with my own. I am one of the few people who have a job and pay for my fun. That means I like doing what I want to do to have fun. I do not want to put up with little kids talking smack. I do not want to listen to Barrens Chat. I do not want to put up with the frustration of members of my group doing things that make me die. I also do not want to ruin my wonderment of the world by running through it trying to keep up with my group.
I'm old. I like to go slow. I like to stop, sit down, and enjoy the beauty of the artwork that the devs have created. I want to go over there --> (points into the distance), without worrying about slowing my group down. I want to get up from my chair and lay down to straighten out my back muscles whenever I want to.
Yes, I like to talk to people. Yes, I like helping people keep their characters alive and accomplish their goals. I also like forming relationships with people who can put up with me.
(shrug) Like someone else said, enjoy what you like and let me enjoy what I like.
I loved SWToR, but with a party limit of 4, you could only duo the x 4 zones and you couldn't take a party, because those companions would count as 2 people ! Thus, turning the mmo into a duo game more than a soloist game, although you can do the x 2 content by yourself with a companion, it really is most fun to duo it, since you can't attain any conversation social points solo.
As proven above, people are to impatient and action twitch finger for mmos. They make it hard for the rest of us who want a harder challenging game, because they tend to pull before the healers and tanks are ready and wipe the group/raid. Dps that pull during the strategy explanation, or blame everyone else for having low dps on a boss fight, although yes, we all hate when people show up without any equipment on to a high level raid zone, but it doesn't make for a fun grouping/raiding experience with all the swearing and arguing.
Most communities on mmos are toxic, and we all solo to avoid other people, where once we wanted to be with other people. We still want to group with good people , who are friends and guildmates, we just don't want to group with the random strangers of impatient people or trolls, who will pull then disband raids, and make the raid wipe for no reason.
I'm tired of the zergs myself, and I'm only 29 yr old. I like to see the beautiful artwork and enjoy the world, I want more in-depth customization and variety, true rpg statistics, and exploration.
This linear zerg point a to point b is so boring and it is why my boyfriend quit playing mmos.
All you do is join a group of dead silence, maybe a hi and a bye, and run through the zone as fast as possible tank/spanking mobs with hotbar rotations, and rushing all the way through it, so the group can disband and leave as you slowly walk around the zone by yourself to enjoy the cleared zone at your leisure.
They even took out complicated quests, knowing that groups were impatient and didn't care to do quests anymore, Blizzard made quests so easy, that most quests are simply point a to point b. There's no variation in quests, and its all the same boring linear kill this and loot that, and all quests are pretty much done by the end of the dungeon, because there was nothing to them.
Oh yeah, I miss long groups on Everquest 1, where you actually could go afk as you guys camped an exp spot, but the camping and grinding exp was boring and tedious and the game needed some quests badly. They need a balance of old grinding and solo / group / raid quests , because right now its so easy its boring and before, it was so difficult that it was boring. The kill rate on EQ1 was so tediously slow, and if you weren't a tank/healer/slower you didn't get the groups. So , all the dps tried to solo and we had kite groups, but it was pretty boring not being able to do the cool challenging stuff (as we had no tank).
The article seems to make a mess of a few different concepts, IMHO.
1) You have games that rely heavily on content meant for groups, but where finding a group doesn't require effort from the players (Rift and GW2 with public-quest type auto-grouping for rifts and hearts);
2) You have games where a big part of the content downright discourages grouping (SWTOR's personal storylines with their party class restrictions and complete lack of logical storyline flow when participating in the personal storylines of others);
3) And then in some games (arguably most) you just have enough solo content to keep people busy for so long they may not care about the type and quantity of group content available in the game (the article cites WOW, people have listed many more).
Looking at current MMOs I think #3 seems to be the rule, #1 seems to be the trend, and #2 seems to be a shot in the foot.
Originally posted by AvarixNo, I think people should group because the genre is based on MULTIPLAYER. If you don't want to actually play with other players, that's fine. We already have a ton of those games, they are single player RPGs. Grouping should be encouraged because it's the difference between these two genres, among other things.It's because I am interested in MMORPGs. When I want to play alone I boot up something like "The Witcher".
Now, to really blow your mind... How does a PvPer who likes to solo fit in? Is he a multiplayer ONLY if he PvPs in groups?
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
A good article.
Why are there so many off topic comments on the group vs solo debate?
Originally posted by thorwood A good article. Why are there so many off topic comments on the group vs solo debate?
If you throw a bone to wolves what do you expect them to do? But hey it bumped up the site post count.
You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!
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Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P
Originally posted by Nadia this needs a companion article of Best MMOs for gamers who enjoy teamwork
Originally posted by DMKano Raid content - not soloable (not even multi-boxable) in vast majority of MMOs with the exception of EQ1 which is currently the most mult-boxable game.
thats the problem with mmos nowadays. They only make teamwork functional in instanced dungeons. Teamwork should be vital in the open world pve as well. I say make pve content hard for everyone. Add level scale so every area is relevant and anyone can have teamwork regardless of levels and still have a hard challenge. And for those times when you want to be a lone wolf but cant get things done, add henchmen like GW1 did. It would still be harder without a real group but not always you will find other people willing to help you so the option should be there.
>>SMITE<<>>Strife: best ever MOBA<<>>Rift: FREE Ally of the Ascended Pack<<
Anarchy Online solo missions use to make me feel all James Bond.
World of Warcraft has certainly been the most enjoyable due to the quests (especially since the revamp).
EQ had groups because the mentality of the players was different at the time. When EQ was at it's height there were not many if any real competitors on the market in the late 90's. People cared about their standing in the communities because of the time investment you had in your character. The communities had their own sites for each server where "ninja-looting" would land you on the shit list and others in the community would turn their back on you.
In modern MMOs I can reroll a character in seconds and level them to max level in little to no time using experience potions or I could rename my character at any time. I could be a racist asshole and tomorrow nobody would remember or care. Every class can perform every job and my warrior can heal himself in a few seconds, in EQ if you took a beating you may loose your gear or have to sit and heal for 20+ min... different mentality.
Originally posted by Shmackpappy Gaming companies are businesses and will continue to produce games that people WANT to play. Obviously there is a big market in producing MMOs that are soloable. As mentioned by others, there is nothing stopping you fron grouping up. Every game I've been on has active guilds. Join one and group up with others. It doesn't mean that it should be at the exclusion of people who don't want to group.
If forced grouping games are so "superior" they wouldnt go way of the do-do.
Every MMO offers both solo AND EXCLUSIVE GROUP CONTENT (while you can group solo content you cannot solo group content)
Its up the individual to play as he wants.
Oh, and btw, those 4 are pretty much most successful western games (besides EvE).
Forced grouping = ultra niche, so you can either take your niche in a larger MMO, with (obviosuly) more options besides forced grouping, or play some obsucure games with 1000 people total (which obviously these people dont want, they rather whine about the latter MMO with options besides forced grouping). Its also your pick.
Originally posted by Akuum EQ had groups because the mentality of the players was different at the time. When EQ was at it's height there were not many if any real competitors on the market in the late 90's. People cared about their standing in the communities because of the time investment you had in your character. The communities had their own sites for each server where "ninja-looting" would land you on the shit list and others in the community would turn their back on you. In modern MMOs I can reroll a character in seconds and level them to max level in little to no time using experience potions or I could rename my character at any time. I could be a racist asshole and tomorrow nobody would remember or care. Every class can perform every job and my warrior can heal himself in a few seconds, in EQ if you took a beating you may loose your gear or have to sit and heal for 20+ min... different mentality.
And thats exactly why noone play EQ but games in the list.
I play MMORPG,'s not MSORPG's (Masivly singleplayer online) games. I play MMO's for the interaction & socialization with my fellow gamers. The more games I play with instancing the more I notice that the entire instance goes by without one player saying a single word to another player. Where as games I play that don't utilize much instancing (Vanguard is a prime example) , I'm noticing I talk with a LOT more folks.
I see so many people say that they play MMO's solo because they like playing alone, but still want to know that there are other people out there that they can talk with and connect with. I respond to those people by saying, "Go play a singleplayer game and run facebook in the background or on your tablet at the same time." You will get a better game and the same socialization that way.