Not only that but people pay for that........Eve is the ultimate "let me ruin your fun" game, and I could never see what was any fun about it to begin with.
Did you ever think that the people who are on the giving and receiving end don't think of it as ruining your fun?
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Are some people demonstrably better at EVE pvp than others?
I posit yes, and I've got a raft of Rooks and Kings videos to prove my position. Since skill is defined as "the ability to do something well; expertise", then by definition EVE pvp requires skill. Simple as that.
Yeah, funny thing about that, people who claim that EVE requires little skill can't actually win consistently vs others that figure out a way to do so.
But it takes no skill, anyone can do it.
Right.
Eve requires skill points and good gear. Just like any other mmo out there. The pvp that requires skill are fps. As long as your clicking buttons to fire that takes no skill. If one player researches his gear better than the other player he wins. In eve you need to invest in skill books and gear to have the best abilities which cost isk. Its no different then any other mmo. Eve fanboys want to believe there game is different but its not. Eve is an mmo with mmo pvp. Shooter's require skill, mmo's require good gear and button pushing.
Generally, mmo's require skill when it comes to pvp, and it's not just all about the gear. Yes, gear makes a huge difference, but understanding things are as well, like hard counters, knowing what class and spec your opponent is using, exploiting the fight area, and being coordinated enough control your character and be where you need to be when you need to be there.
I tend to agree with the author of the article in that most of the large battle "skills" come from planning and not from individual piloting. Though the author does include training the individual pilots as part of that planner's skill set.
You can't threaten their virtual self-worth (regardless of true or false). Declaring there just might be at lot less mad skillz involved than commonly portrayed is a huge threat in any PVP title.
Are some people demonstrably better at EVE pvp than others?
I posit yes, and I've got a raft of Rooks and Kings videos to prove my position. Since skill is defined as "the ability to do something well; expertise", then by definition EVE pvp requires skill. Simple as that.
Yeah, funny thing about that, people who claim that EVE requires little skill can't actually win consistently vs others that figure out a way to do so.
But it takes no skill, anyone can do it.
Right.
Eve requires skill points and good gear. Just like any other mmo out there. The pvp that requires skill are fps. As long as your clicking buttons to fire that takes no skill. If one player researches his gear better than the other player he wins. In eve you need to invest in skill books and gear to have the best abilities which cost isk. Its no different then any other mmo. Eve fanboys want to believe there game is different but its not. Eve is an mmo with mmo pvp. Shooter's require skill, mmo's require good gear and button pushing.
Codscrap
I am not going to pretend to have played many PvP games, yes i played Wushu, and yes i have the title of 'WoWs worst PVPer" but in eve there is a big difference against a normal 'fantasy mmo pvp'
Firstly, SP (skill points) this only matters to a small few, fact is 5mill sp V 150mill SP in frigates is same its about picking your fight,
You say gear.
In EvE gear /equipment has little difference, yes you may get point little bit better, maybe (if your lucky slow you down) but trust me you can fly your 40bill isk ship and i will t2 fit a same named ship with 2mill but I WILL beat your ass if you dont know mechanics.
Unlike ANY other mmo (i know) Mechanics in eve are what matters, for instance, transversal / velocity / speed / orbit / location all these are far more important than equipment and SP ...
If i may give the best example of this back in my VERY early days i lost a fairly expensivly fitted Stealth Bomber to a new player in a shuttle, HOW..... simply i fired on him from 80km at a gate in low sec(he was AFK) I did not know that the gate would shoot back at said distance, I insta-Popped, so please tell me how your gear wins fits this??? (nb shuttles have no slots and very very little armor etc) - this is a good example of knowing mechanics, of which you can use to your advantage, like getting someone to fire on you in higsec becuaes you hit them with snowballs (was a xmas pressie few years back) when people shot back thinking they had been agrod tehy got insta popped by Concord... so you see equipment means very very little V mechanics
Eve is not based on the stero typical button pushing because your always having to make adjustments rather than run around / jump you have to consider distance / speed / then change your ammo depending on your aponent. So dont judge eve because of what haters say.
ah yes, eve PVP, click, orbit 2000m, press a button, launch drones, go to sleep, rinse, repeat. Not to mention that the skills you get by clicking a button and waiting a long ass time without any kind of challenge to achieve. so basically the game is, the longer you play the "better" you are cause everythings on a timer.
mods donteven exist.But please, keep telling us what more you could grasp from watching one video. Its always funny to ridicule people like you.
Originally posted by Katilla oh, and gear is everything in this game. If you don't have the mods you lose.
i was referring to slotting your ship. If you don't have the high end weapons, drones, and shields, you are pretty much toast compared to someone who's been training for years to get them. I played for two years, not just watched a video and compared it to that. I was poking at the fact that people say that gear has nothing to do with success in this game.
If EVE didn't need twitch skill I'd have 100:1 K:D ratio instead of a measly 11:1. I've had a lot of killmails escape because I targeted the wrong thing, activated overheat 1 second too late, misclicked on empty space and flew in wrong direction, didn't target stuff in time, DIDN'T DODGE ASTEROIDS AT 5KM/S, etc.
Eve never has and never will be based on the individual reflexes and agility of it's players. It's not a FPS nor is it a true flight/space sim, rather, it's gameplay is based on the organizational skills, planning and outright deviousness of it's players. I've always thought that it completely leveled the playing field in the age of all the CoD/BF/Halo elitists because a twitchy finger gives you no advantage. Thinking nonstop from the moment you login until the moment you logout is the skillset necessary to succeed.
As far as the backlash, hehehe... That unto itself is part of the charm that is Eve. The first attribute one should upgrade when rolling a new character is: Thick Skin. Eve does not suffer fools and punishes all. While a lot of the comments are just flaming, have no doubt that there are very smart, calculating people at those keyboards typing them that are prepared to make your life miserable the moment you undock. And that in itself, is a skill...
Originally posted by Kaelaan21
I think this article argues Semantics. The author is discrediting the skill in a strategy game.
I do not view DOTA/LoL clones as "strategy" games in the strict sense that many do people seem to today. Strategy is all about using your knowledge wisely to prepare yourself for your next move. Just like in a chess, a wise and skillful Eve player will make sure that targets are chosen wisely for the type of ship they are currently flying. They will also know how to use the UI and manage proper engagement.
A skilled eve pilot will usually have won before the battle has already begun. This is because they know that they are properly equipped to have the upper hand for the target they have chosen. In the event that the battle is evenly matched (such as the tournaments suggested), the skill is all about anticipating what moves your opponent will make next and execute without mistakes.
All games are going to have unskilled players that join the zerg - whether it's a traditional MMO such as WoW, a hardcore MMO such as Darkfall or a strategic MMO such as Eve. But saying that Eve PvP doesn't have skill just because it isn't played with "muscle memory" or twitch skill is kind of silly.
This article is like comparing football to chess and saying chess doesn't require skill.
The article talked about player skill, not just twitch and muscle memory. There is a degree of mechanical expertise in every game you must obtain to be good, but every game also has a degree of mental expertise as well. And while games like LoL, Starcraft and Street Fighter may need a high level of mechanical skill, that doesn't mean those games require any less mental skill; thus, a game like Eve Online may need less skill, in general, than any of the games mentioned.
Make all the bookmarks, do the scouting, organize the fleet, be ready to deploy or have it deployed if you have anything to deploy, make sure fleet boosters are in place, set up target callers, anchors, warp-ins... Often it is like going through a checklist. How does preparing take skill if it is just a chore?
Ironically, it's no different than military training aboard ships at sea if not most branches of the U.S. Armed Forces. Constant training, drilling and going through a set process to help take the indecisiveness out of a situation and let the drilled response take over. The crew sitting in CIC (I'm old school) of an Aegis Cruiser aren't necessarily twitchy fingers, they are running tactical precision responses to input from their sensors and deploying weapons and countermeasures to destroy the enemy and keep themselves alive. It may seem like a chore on the outside, but it's very real and exhilarating when it's time to do the deed. As sublime as eve can be sometimes, it compares to no other game when you see another player. You become instantly defensive and start checking to see that those checklists you spoke about have been run and everything is primed to defend yourself or try to run like a bat out hell.
Comments
Did you ever think that the people who are on the giving and receiving end don't think of it as ruining your fun?
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Generally, mmo's require skill when it comes to pvp, and it's not just all about the gear. Yes, gear makes a huge difference, but understanding things are as well, like hard counters, knowing what class and spec your opponent is using, exploiting the fight area, and being coordinated enough control your character and be where you need to be when you need to be there.
You make me like charity
This is not always true, even multiple skilled players make mistakes and get caught.
You can't threaten their virtual self-worth (regardless of true or false). Declaring there just might be at lot less mad skillz involved than commonly portrayed is a huge threat in any PVP title.
Codscrap
I am not going to pretend to have played many PvP games, yes i played Wushu, and yes i have the title of 'WoWs worst PVPer" but in eve there is a big difference against a normal 'fantasy mmo pvp'
Firstly, SP (skill points) this only matters to a small few, fact is 5mill sp V 150mill SP in frigates is same its about picking your fight,
You say gear.
In EvE gear /equipment has little difference, yes you may get point little bit better, maybe (if your lucky slow you down) but trust me you can fly your 40bill isk ship and i will t2 fit a same named ship with 2mill but I WILL beat your ass if you dont know mechanics.
Unlike ANY other mmo (i know) Mechanics in eve are what matters, for instance, transversal / velocity / speed / orbit / location all these are far more important than equipment and SP ...
If i may give the best example of this back in my VERY early days i lost a fairly expensivly fitted Stealth Bomber to a new player in a shuttle, HOW..... simply i fired on him from 80km at a gate in low sec(he was AFK) I did not know that the gate would shoot back at said distance, I insta-Popped, so please tell me how your gear wins fits this??? (nb shuttles have no slots and very very little armor etc) - this is a good example of knowing mechanics, of which you can use to your advantage, like getting someone to fire on you in higsec becuaes you hit them with snowballs (was a xmas pressie few years back) when people shot back thinking they had been agrod tehy got insta popped by Concord... so you see equipment means very very little V mechanics
Eve is not based on the stero typical button pushing because your always having to make adjustments rather than run around / jump you have to consider distance / speed / then change your ammo depending on your aponent. So dont judge eve because of what haters say.
This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game
where of course you're welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
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it comes down to this: yes, skills and gear make the character, BUT its how smart the guy is behind that character.
I can tell you this, as a guy that played eve 10 years, and basically won it as far as any guy could:
EVE DOESN'T SUFFER FOOLS.
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...
i was referring to slotting your ship. If you don't have the high end weapons, drones, and shields, you are pretty much toast compared to someone who's been training for years to get them. I played for two years, not just watched a video and compared it to that. I was poking at the fact that people say that gear has nothing to do with success in this game.
Ironically, it's no different than military training aboard ships at sea if not most branches of the U.S. Armed Forces. Constant training, drilling and going through a set process to help take the indecisiveness out of a situation and let the drilled response take over. The crew sitting in CIC (I'm old school) of an Aegis Cruiser aren't necessarily twitchy fingers, they are running tactical precision responses to input from their sensors and deploying weapons and countermeasures to destroy the enemy and keep themselves alive. It may seem like a chore on the outside, but it's very real and exhilarating when it's time to do the deed. As sublime as eve can be sometimes, it compares to no other game when you see another player. You become instantly defensive and start checking to see that those checklists you spoke about have been run and everything is primed to defend yourself or try to run like a bat out hell.