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Is endgame right now just speed rushing dungeons?

DzoneDzone Member UncommonPosts: 371

I've always been taking my time enjoying this game, but I just did CM for the first time. Of corse it ended up being a speed run and I had to skip all the CS's or i'd get left behind. Our main tank did a pretty good job explaning during the whole run. Being the first time doing it, plus being a tank was very stressfull. Took me awhile to figure out certain parts and everyone had to wait on me a few times :(

 

Like the time I had to light 2 search lights, didn't know were the 2nd one was... but aventually found it.

 

I'm sure after I've done that run some more times, i'll get more used to it. I just wish I wasn't rushed through that :(

 

Is the whole end game going to be just people Speed Rushing dungeons? Hopefully i'll get more used to it in the future. Sure is a big change at end game from levels 1-49.

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Comments

  • RelytDnegelRelytDnegel Member UncommonPosts: 261
    There is a lot of speed running yes because those tomes you get are used to buy your first tier of raiding gear, known as dark light. You will run through Castrum and Amdapor Keep sooooo many times but it is so you can get geared up enough to do the hard modes and then move onto coil. I don't mind the speed runs that much but I can see how it would suck if people tried to force it on you when you were new to the dungeon. 
  • jskeets916jskeets916 Member Posts: 154
    Originally posted by Dzone
    I've always been taking my time enjoying this game, but I just did CM for the first time. Of corse it ended up being a speed run and I had to skip all the CS's or i'd get left behind. Our main tank did a pretty good job explaning during the whole run. Being the first time doing it, plus being a tank was very stressfull. Took me awhile to figure out certain parts and everyone had to wait on me a few times :(   Like the time I had to light 2 search lights, didn't know were the 2nd one was... but aventually found it.   I'm sure after I've done that run some more times, i'll get more used to it. I just wish I wasn't rushed through that :(   Is the whole end game going to be just people Speed Rushing dungeons? Hopefully i'll get more used to it in the future. Sure is a big change at end game from levels 1-49.

     

    These threads the last few days are quite irritating I must say, have any of you done Binding Coil of Bahamut? The only designed endgame content we really have atm?

    You just continue your main story progression of hardmode primals to get there...

     

    MMORPG.com posters with thread titles like "getting bored already?" or this one, I ask you a very simple question

    What Turn have you completed of the only end game dungeon available at launch? I'm on Turn 4 atm, where are ya'll at?

     

    So much criticism of endgame content that still has yet to implement pvp, housing, additional endgame dungeons, but the ONE that they do provide at launch NONE of you post or want to talk about?

     

    It seems like it's intentionally avoided by bad players so they can find something else to explain why they dislike the game. They have an elaborate 5 turn dungeon designed to challenge those who have completed their content, yet you guys nitpick other facets of the game that don't apply and complain that your not having fun? In a PvE game that just launched?  I just don't understand...

  • ErgoProxyDecayErgoProxyDecay Member UncommonPosts: 1,498
    I hate these speed runs. but killing more mobs is just meaningless because they dont really drop anything. Not even coins. Its really a waste of time to not speed run. Of course; Yoshi probably didnt plan to have the dungeons speed run available. Must be a design flaw. But yeah youll be seeing probably only speed runs. Sadly even games as easy as wow, dont have dungeons where you could skip everything. I thought Yoshi was a hardcore gamer; though he did bring XIV back to life, he seems to be too killing it in another way.


    "Basking in your hatred... Feels quite nice." - Raven
  • gamekid2kgamekid2k Member Posts: 360
    Hate to be the one that doesn't want to do speed run. 

    Now Playing: DARKFALL Unholy Wars "Return to Open World, Full Loot PvP, Conquest in a Sandbox MMO with player driven economy! Just like classic MMOs!"

  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 1,952
    Originally posted by Br3akingDawn
    I hate these speed runs. but killing more mobs is just meaningless because they dont really drop anything. Not even coins. Its really a waste of time to not speed run. Of course; Yoshi probably didnt plan to have the dungeons speed run available. Must be a design flaw. But yeah youll be seeing probably only speed runs. Sadly even games as easy as wow, dont have dungeons where you could skip everything. I thought Yoshi was a hardcore gamer; though he did bring XIV back to life, he seems to be too killing it in another way.

    It was a design flaw to make the story dungeons drop tokens to purchase entry-level raid gear.

    As far as skipping everything, they're workingon fixing that, they already did one fix to AK, though they didn't do enough cause you can still skip majority of pulls.

    image
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  • CymdaiCymdai Member UncommonPosts: 1,041

    Yeah, basically.

    End game is: 

    1) Farm up tomes all day by running CM and AK

    2) Farm up primal weapons

    3) Clear Garuda and Titan on hard

    4) Search for a BC group

    Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...

  • GrailerGrailer Member UncommonPosts: 892
    Originally posted by Cymdai
    Yeah, basically. End game is:  1) Farm up tomes all day by running CM and AK 2) Farm up primal weapons 3) Clear Garuda and Titan on hard 4) Search for a BC group

    Yep basically if you were having fun ,  that is over now , the grind begins :)

     

     

  • HyanmenHyanmen Member UncommonPosts: 5,357

    Who would've thought that speed rushing the game results in more speed rushing?

    You reap what you sow. Then you bitch about it on mmorpg.com.

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,367
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    Who would've thought that speed rushing the game results in more speed rushing? You reap what you sow. Then you bitch about it on mmorpg.com.

    Not to mention a ton of content that was bypassed. Meh, whatever. It's as you say

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,180
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    Who would've thought that speed rushing the game results in more speed rushing? You reap what you sow. Then you bitch about it on mmorpg.com.

    Many of us have tried saying this for years now during the launch era of most MMORPGs. I'll just repeat what has always been said in reply, "when complete games are available, why would I pay to play one that isn't?"

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • HyanmenHyanmen Member UncommonPosts: 5,357
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    Who would've thought that speed rushing the game results in more speed rushing? You reap what you sow. Then you bitch about it on mmorpg.com.

    Many of us have tried saying this for years now during the launch era of most MMORPGs. I'll just repeat what has always been said in reply, "when complete games are available, why would I pay to play one that isn't?"

    If MMORPG's are one giant pile of grey matter to the person with nothing to distinguish between them (which should be true considering they skip through everything like it doesn't matter) then that statement is a perfect one.

    (Un)fortunately, many of us do not think like that.

    Then again, those who don't think like that don't come here to bitch. It's always the "why didn't I just keep playing WoW/EVE/Rift" or "why didn't I just continue bitching miserably at mmorpg.com for the Xth year?" crowd.

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • GravargGravarg Member UncommonPosts: 3,420

    For me, endgame is going back and starting to level another job :)

     

    As for people saying an MMO isn't complete, I'll never understand that logic...MMOs are never complete, until they're taken offline....WoW still isn't complete...In MMOs, there are no finish lines, there is no real "endgame".  Unlike other games that have a finite ending, MMOs do not...this is one of the major things that seperate MMOs from other game genres.

  • twruletwrule Member Posts: 1,251
    Originally posted by Gravarg
    For me, endgame is going back and starting to level another job :)   As for people saying an MMO isn't complete, I'll never understand that logic...MMOs are never complete, until they're taken offline....WoW still isn't complete...

    It's worse reasoning than that even - it's not even the same kind of completeness they want to imply.

    How does the concept of 'completeness' apply to games in general?

    Seems there is only one possible way -  in the case of a game that is meant to have certain rules or mechanisms that are missing, like a game of chess where the queens are missing.

    Does that analogy apply here? I don't think it does.

    All the basic constitutive features and mechanics of the game are there - a shortage of content would be something like not having all the possible cards available for a trading card game, but still having enough for at least one deck; is the trading card game less complete because of it? No.

    If you revised the 'reply' to say "when games with more content are available, why would I play a game with less content?" That's like asking "Why wouldn't I play a different trading card game for which I have access to 500 cards instead of this particular card game for which I only have access to one full deck?", to which one could easily reply "Because you might prefer the rules of the second game/ how that game is played."

    Anyway, sorry for the off-topic rant.

  • Cod_EyeCod_Eye Member UncommonPosts: 1,016
    Originally posted by twrule
    Originally posted by Gravarg
    For me, endgame is going back and starting to level another job :)   As for people saying an MMO isn't complete, I'll never understand that logic...MMOs are never complete, until they're taken offline....WoW still isn't complete...

    It's worse reasoning than that even - it's not even the same kind of completeness they want to imply.

    How does the concept of 'completeness' apply to games in general?

    Seems there is only one possible way -  in the case of a game that is meant to have certain rules or mechanisms that are missing, like a game of chess where the queens are missing.

    Does that analogy apply here? I don't think it does.

    All the basic constitutive features and mechanics of the game are there - a shortage of content would be something like not having all the possible cards available for a trading card game, but still having enough for at least one deck; is the trading card game less complete because of it? No.

    If you revised the 'reply' to say "when games with more content are available, why would I play a game with less content?" That's like asking "Why wouldn't I play a different trading card game for which I have access to 500 cards instead of this particular card game for which I only have access to one full deck?", to which one could easily reply "Because you might prefer the rules of the second game/ how that game is played."

    Anyway, sorry for the off-topic rant.

    Not sure if trading card game is a good example for your analogy, I've played MtgO for yrs never went into it with collecting every card due to the games reliance on me spending a lot of money, tourny pro's mainly play with a set of 75 cards, 60 main deck 15 sideboard and then dispense of cards when they can be replaced with new cards from latest expansion with very few of those players having a complete set.  Though I do see where you are coming from, different players play at different pace with different achievements in mind.  Whichever way players play they will never achieve 100% game completion, and certainly not at this point of time frame the game has been out.

  • twruletwrule Member Posts: 1,251
    Originally posted by Cod_Eye
    Originally posted by twrule
    Originally posted by Gravarg
    For me, endgame is going back and starting to level another job :)   As for people saying an MMO isn't complete, I'll never understand that logic...MMOs are never complete, until they're taken offline....WoW still isn't complete...

    It's worse reasoning than that even - it's not even the same kind of completeness they want to imply.

    How does the concept of 'completeness' apply to games in general?

    Seems there is only one possible way -  in the case of a game that is meant to have certain rules or mechanisms that are missing, like a game of chess where the queens are missing.

    Does that analogy apply here? I don't think it does.

    All the basic constitutive features and mechanics of the game are there - a shortage of content would be something like not having all the possible cards available for a trading card game, but still having enough for at least one deck; is the trading card game less complete because of it? No.

    If you revised the 'reply' to say "when games with more content are available, why would I play a game with less content?" That's like asking "Why wouldn't I play a different trading card game for which I have access to 500 cards instead of this particular card game for which I only have access to one full deck?", to which one could easily reply "Because you might prefer the rules of the second game/ how that game is played."

    Anyway, sorry for the off-topic rant.

    Not sure if trading card game is a good example for your analogy, I've played MtgO for yrs never went into it with collecting every card due to the games reliance on me spending a lot of money, tourny pro's mainly play with a set of 75 cards, 60 main deck 15 sideboard and then dispense of cards when they can be replaced with new cards from latest expansion with very few of those players having a complete set.  Though I do see where you are coming from, different players play at different pace with different achievements in mind.  Whichever way players play they will never achieve 100% game completion, and certainly not at this point of time frame the game has been out.

    What you're saying doesn't conflict with what I was saying, except that it may be more likely for someone to clear 100% of the content in an MMO than it would be for a player in a trading card game to collect 100% of the available cards - but that wasn't really the main point of the analogy - the point was that the core gameplay is there regardless of how many scenarios are available to you; you have combat in all its forms (all team sizes and solo), crafting, gathering, etc. Whether you have more or fewer endgame dungeons to run doesn't change that (as long as you don't have zero), so the game is "complete", just as the trading card game becomes "complete" as soon as you have the minimum deck required to play.

    You could argue that since people rely more on consuming new content in MMOs to keep the game fun than they necessarily do in TC games, what I'm saying isn't an excuse for some particular amount of content being in the game, and that's fine - I was only arguing that one can't call the one with less content less "complete", maybe just more short-lived (assuming one does rely on consuming novel content to have fun).

  • AlamarethAlamareth Member UncommonPosts: 570

    Essentially, yes - for about a week or two.

    Basically, you want to have one ilevel 90 item (relic or chest - depending) and full ilevel 70 before you even think about tackling coil in any serious fashion.

    That brings us to a pretty glaring design flaw.  The only way to get ilevel 90 is to obtain Tomestones of Mythology, which are capped at 300 per week.  The only way to get those tomes is through running Ampador Keep or other HM Primals.  Assuming the DF queues are reasonably low, AK is normally the fastest way of doing it.

    Thus, people speed run.  None of us really enjoy the dungeon, we go on full on auto pilot and just blow through it.  After you've run it 40+ times, I think you'll sort of understand why we don't like people that take their time with it.

    That said, I won't bring PUGs with me - ever.  I respect that you want the full game experience and I expect that you have a similar respect for my time.  That's why PUGs and FCs exist.

  • CymdaiCymdai Member UncommonPosts: 1,041

    There's also a running misconception too. I got raged at in my topic about it as well, even though it's inaccurate. The statement goes along the lines of (roughly):

    "If you want to zerg the game and skip all the content then you deserve to be bored"

    The problem is, most of the people at end-game didn't skip any of the content. In order to do the end-game, you have to be completely up to date on your story line, as access to the end game is 100% dependent on the story line completion. People who got to the end game already did all the content; there's nothing left to do!

    Even more irritating, is people act like it's impossible. I know I was accused of playing the game 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, despite playing roughly 4-5 hours a day, often times during the slow time at work. It's a very venomous mind-set. It's a concept I think many casuals struggle to grasp; the art of playing smart.

    Using leves, leveling with your FC, doing some basic research on the game gave, etc me a pretty good idea how to level quickly and efficiently. But if you tell that to *anyone* they tend to just blow up on you, tell you that you have no life, go outside, etc. Try it on any forum; you'll see exactly what I mean.

    Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...

  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 18,885
    Originally posted by Cymdai
    There's also a running misconception too. I got raged at in my topic about it as well, even though it's inaccurate. The statement goes along the lines of (roughly): "If you want to zerg the game and skip all the content then you deserve to be bored" The problem is, most of the people at end-game didn't skip any of the content. In order to do the end-game, you have to be completely up to date on your story line, as access to the end game is 100% dependent on the story line completion. People who got to the end game already did all the content; there's nothing left to do! Even more irritating, is people act like it's impossible. I know I was accused of playing the game 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, despite playing roughly 4-5 hours a day, often times during the slow time at work. It's a very venomous mind-set. It's a concept I think many casuals struggle to grasp; the art of playing smart. Using leves, leveling with your FC, doing some basic research on the game gave, etc me a pretty good idea how to level quickly and efficiently. But if you tell that to *anyone* they tend to just blow up on you, tell you that you have no life, go outside, etc. Try it on any forum; you'll see exactly what I mean.

    There are some posters here who don't understand this. My entire FC was 50 at 10 day mark post launch. We played together, did primals together, progressed through the story line together. We have a 50 crafter in every profession.

    Its so easy to go 1-50 none of us played around the clock, are all have full time jobs, we play evenings.

    There is little content and its very easy to get through with not a lot of effort.

     

  • thekzethekze Member UncommonPosts: 180
    No, end-game is the Coil of Bahamut. If you don't want or can't make it there for X reason, at least dont post about how ''end-game is speed rushing dungeons''
  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Member RarePosts: 1,247
    Endgame is what you make of it.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 30,078
    Originally posted by Alamareth
    Essentially, yes - for about a week or two. Basically, you want to have one ilevel 90 item (relic or chest - depending) and full ilevel 70 before you even think about tackling coil in any serious fashion. That brings us to a pretty glaring design flaw.  The only way to get ilevel 90 is to obtain Tomestones of Mythology, which are capped at 300 per week.  The only way to get those tomes is through running Ampador Keep or other HM Primals.  Assuming the DF queues are reasonably low, AK is normally the fastest way of doing it. Thus, people speed run.  None of us really enjoy the dungeon, we go on full on auto pilot and just blow through it.  After you've run it 40+ times, I think you'll sort of understand why we don't like people that take their time with it. That said, I won't bring PUGs with me - ever.  I respect that you want the full game experience and I expect that you have a similar respect for my time.  That's why PUGs and FCs exist.

    Thank you, your post confirmed in several ways why this title isn't one I would enjoy.

     

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  • FlawSGIFlawSGI Member UncommonPosts: 1,379
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Cymdai
    There's also a running misconception too. I got raged at in my topic about it as well, even though it's inaccurate. The statement goes along the lines of (roughly): "If you want to zerg the game and skip all the content then you deserve to be bored" The problem is, most of the people at end-game didn't skip any of the content. In order to do the end-game, you have to be completely up to date on your story line, as access to the end game is 100% dependent on the story line completion. People who got to the end game already did all the content; there's nothing left to do! Even more irritating, is people act like it's impossible. I know I was accused of playing the game 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, despite playing roughly 4-5 hours a day, often times during the slow time at work. It's a very venomous mind-set. It's a concept I think many casuals struggle to grasp; the art of playing smart. Using leves, leveling with your FC, doing some basic research on the game gave, etc me a pretty good idea how to level quickly and efficiently. But if you tell that to *anyone* they tend to just blow up on you, tell you that you have no life, go outside, etc. Try it on any forum; you'll see exactly what I mean.

    There are some posters here who don't understand this. My entire FC was 50 at 10 day mark post launch. We played together, did primals together, progressed through the story line together. We have a 50 crafter in every profession.

    Its so easy to go 1-50 none of us played around the clock, are all have full time jobs, we play evenings.

    There is little content and its very easy to get through with not a lot of effort.

     

     I have also stated this point and gotten some pretty interesting responses. The fact is I am a full time student and I rarely played because when my wife is home I do stuff with here rather than play an MMO she won't play. With that being said I was in a FC with members who were grinding hard mode primals every night and had maxed crafters. The responses are usually "did they have every job and every craft maxed?" and I am thinking why the hell do people seem to think that unless you have leveled all the alts and crafts that you have not gotten the content. My time in FFXIV has given the opinion that  the ride to the top was way to short and the view on the way was less than impressive I am sorry but if my FC was grinding hardmodes within the first 3 weeks ( I didn't play a 4th so I can't comment) then the game is lacking something. 2 months of content for those that level slowly maybe. Even the alt experience was boring as hell so I couldn't even enjoy scratching my alt itch.

    RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

  • HyanmenHyanmen Member UncommonPosts: 5,357
    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Thank you, your post confirmed in several ways why this title isn't one I would enjoy.  

    Yet you keep coming here. Not that I don't believe you, but you seem to need a lot of reasons to not enjoy this game before letting go!

    Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
  • FoomerangFoomerang Member UncommonPosts: 5,615

    Its weird I'm playing the shit out of this game when I have time. Maybe a couple hours a day, six on the weekends. I'm mid to upper 20s on most crafting and gathering professions and I have one combat class to 30.

    I found that I can choose something different to do every time I log on and that activity consumes my entire play session.

    I don't even know if or when I will hit the true endgame. Dont care either heh.

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 6,420

    CM is really good at it's point in time of the storyline. It is a great leadup to the Ultima Weapon fight.

    It's an utterly horrible design decision to make that the one of the few ways to obtain Tomes.

    Sure, there are other ways to get Tomes, Praet drops 100, AK 80, WP 50, all Lvl 40+ dungeons drop around 10 or so... but you need a lot of Tomes.... a lot of them.

    The full Darklite set a bit more than 4,500 tomes - but that isn't absolutely required, you could just get your 900 tomes for Relic and then get Coil attuned. But right now, it's either farm Tomes for Darklite, or farm Tomes for crafting material to make the iLvl 70 stuff - which is a lot fewer tomes, but ends up costing a lot more gil (or time, if you chose to farm/craft it yourself).

    Until we get Crystal Palace, which drops iLvl 80 gear, or the cap is lifted on Myths and removes the artificial time limit on getting the iLvl 90 gear, there isn't really any choice but to farm a lot of tomes, farm gil (which really is difficult right now) or really push crafting hard. So most people are choosing to farm tomes, and right now, that means running AK until you cap on Myths, then steamrolling CM until you puke because Praet takes longer and nothing else comes close to offering as many tomes per unit time.

    After all, you only need around 5,500 Tomes to get all your gear and be ready for Coil... that's only 55 runs through CM if your looking for the most time efficent means to do so. By the time you've finished that many runs in CM, you probably will know where the searchlights are.

    Poor decision on S/E - because the dungeon really is a good storyline mechanic, but it's being abused to farm tomes because there aren't a lot of other good alternatives. Rather similar to FATEs, which are being abused for XP because there aren't a lot of other good alternatives. And it's a shame that it forces players on their first run, where they should be all "WOW COOL" and taking in the story, to get pushed by a bunch of grumpy players who are getting carpal tunnel from slamming the ESC key over and over on all 11 of the damn cutscenes just trying to get their 14 runs in for the day so they can afford their chestpiece.

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