That could be either that one game's playerbase, the particular server's playerbase or even a time of day thing. Can't really judge a community on one question.
Sure; and "just having a rotten day" is an explanation too.
But there are definitely communities that are toxic to newbs. How do we turn them around?
Depends who "we" is. The players? It's not their job. It would be nice to see them do it - it could even be considered right for them to try to turn around the bad apples - but I do not expect them to. The devs? That's part of the job of the community team, although some are just glorified forum moderators and social media spammers.
This is exactly who I'm expecting to see it from. Back in the early days when MMO's were small budget, (and less corporate) providing good customer service including active in game moderation of chat channels and behavior was the standard.
Now this has all but gone away as being too "expensive". Dammit, I'm not giving you a 15.00 a month so they can turn around and use it all to create their next game, some of that is supposed to go to properly servicing the game I'm currently playing.
There are a few really good examples of community at work in games, and of the best ones (readiest for several here to go ballistic over this) is GamersFirst. G1's community team in Fallen Earth and some of their other titles are part of the community, well-known individuals and take part in the game world, chatting, answering questions and running events. G1, even back when it was K2 Networks, has had service - in game and out - that keeps community a priority.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Does not matter as to why the newb is asking a seemingly obvious-to-answer question. If I am standing around long enough to see it and reflect on it. Then I am doing nothing so important that I can't help out another player. If they ask nicely about something I know the answer to, I tell them. That simple. Don't need to over think it. Because, the wonderment is more of a mental hassle then simply answering the question.
My opinion has always been the same. New player to the game. i know its direct but i do this funny thing when i meet newb's... i help them with what they are asking. and usually allow them to friend me and ask me questions whenever they have them.
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
Depends who "we" is. The players? It's not their job.
There you go folks, the exact reason why MMO communities suck.
At least I now know to place Loktofeit is this bucket:
"The problem"
Instead of this bucket:
"The solution"
Taking that snippet out of context and ignoring my statement immediately after that, I could see how one would think that. Luckily, I have faith that the posters who are here for meaningful discussion will read the post in its entirety.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
And it's not the gui's fault, let's say s/he can play the game, can navigate in the settings, etc., and bumps into Target assist on/off
That particular part of the poll drew from the particular newb (really happened).
All he wanted to know was how to remove a power from his bar (powers locked, by default). Experienced gamer probably figures it out, on his own, in a few seconds. But I can see someone who's not a vet not being able to find it. Nope, no docs.
What created the poll was how much abuse he took, before somebody gave him the simple, short answer he was looking for. Pointless hostility. So yep, it was an entirely one-sided poll devoted to sarcastic treatment of their sterling characters.
We can go into 'applause for helpful mentors' poll some other time, I guess. They certainly deserve some.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
And it's not the gui's fault, let's say s/he can play the game, can navigate in the settings, etc., and bumps into Target assist on/off
That particular part of the poll drew from the particular newb (really happened).
All he wanted to know was how to remove a power from his bar (powers locked, by default). Experienced gamer probably figures it out, on his own, in a few seconds. But I can see someone who's not a vet not being able to find it. Nope, no docs.
What created the poll was how much abuse he took, before somebody gave him the simple, short answer he was looking for. Pointless hostility. So yep, it was an entirely one-sided poll devoted to sarcastic treatment of their sterling characters.
We can go into 'applause for helpful mentors' poll some other time, I guess. They certainly deserve some.
Eh, I'll toss an applause for helpful members here:
The APB:Reloaded community takes vulgarity and smack-talking to a whole new level when they're out on the streets of the game's San Paro city, but they're surprisingly helpful whenever a noob asks a question in chat or on the forums.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
And it's not the gui's fault, let's say s/he can play the game, can navigate in the settings, etc., and bumps into Target assist on/off
That particular part of the poll drew from the particular newb (really happened).
All he wanted to know was how to remove a power from his bar (powers locked, by default). Experienced gamer probably figures it out, on his own, in a few seconds. But I can see someone who's not a vet not being able to find it. Nope, no docs.
What created the poll was how much abuse he took, before somebody gave him the simple, short answer he was looking for. Pointless hostility. So yep, it was an entirely one-sided poll devoted to sarcastic treatment of their sterling characters.
We can go into 'applause for helpful mentors' poll some other time, I guess. They certainly deserve some.
I am still trying to justify the rage. It is a very serious problem in the times we live in. People slowly lose the ability to look for answers on their own. It is becoming a handicap. It is noticable in every part of life, specially in schools and college but not exclusively. With each year people ask more and more stupid questions, the current span for trying to figure something out on your own is like 5 seconds and then you just google it. Not long ago people started to fail even on google... I know I am going way to deep into this, but I just felt the need to share...
Also the mentality... the demand... people get mad if you don't answer, like it is your duty, Also very often the person asking can be very impolite. Hard to find anyone that asks politely for something and is able to accept lack of answer.
This can be incredibly annoying, people expect that everyone will do all the work in figuring everything out for them...
I answer questions in games very often and I always try to be polite, but lets be honest I do get angry when I hear some questions, I won't try to make a great samaritan out of myself like some of the people here try to.
Sooo...I've been playing a lot of DOTA 2 lately, and I think you would be hard-pressed to find a game that is MORE hostile to "n00bs." I mean, if you are a n00b in DOTA 2, you should fully expect insults to your intelligence, demands that you commit suicide, and threats against your family...and these are just the more minor attacks.
As of now, I am not a n00b at DOTA 2, so I don't really get these attacks, except from idiots who are trying to blame their sucking on me . But anyway, I have to say that this n00b abuse is one of the most despicable things about the PC gaming community. I mean, literally EVERY player on any game has been a n00b at some point. What kind of elitist jackass must someone be to constantly bully someone just for being new?
So what if a new player asks when they can change class in FFXIV, or gets ganked in DOTA 2? Instead of attacking them, why not just help them...answer their questions or help them avoid getting ganked in the future.
That could be either that one game's playerbase, the particular server's playerbase or even a time of day thing. Can't really judge a community on one question.
Sure; and "just having a rotten day" is an explanation too.
But there are definitely communities that are toxic to newbs. How do we turn them around?
First I voted muffins because your options are all negative.
Second how about this. If you are a Dick to newbs your IP and MAC address are upload to a database. Then at the leisure of non computer "Newbs" you can be hacked, and your computer shit bagged. Then you receive an email, text message or snail mail explaining that your douchbaggery led to the untimely demise of your PC. And if you were not a newb at Computers you would have had Elite countermeasures in place to prevent hacking.
Orderly conduct through Fear. It works for almost everything else.
I do not disrespect noobs, I merely give them some bullets and 1 out of every 20 a gun as well and tell them that if the run from the enemy Ivan (the Maxim Gorky machinegunner) will make sure to make them good flower watering instruments.
What kind of elitist jackass must someone be to constantly bully someone just for being new?
Human nature tends to involve a little jockying for status. I suspect the illusion of empowerment, a few supportive voices and easy-to-misread social signals you get in games (and on the Internet in general) tends to lure out a lot of peoples' inner alpha male/female.
Now add in competitive team environments and strangers being tossed into each others' paths ... the negatives just get amplified. Even here.
Newbs are unworthy of receiving help from a superior being such as myself.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
I remember back to the earlier days of Everquest when the game was pretty tough for new players. Sometimes people would send me tells out of the blue asking for me to give them money or gear. Those players I would not help.
However, if someone is a new player and is nice and is asking questions about their class, a quest, where they should go at a certain level, etc, I would be happy to help them. I might even give them some random gear I have laying around provided they didn't flat out beg me for handouts.
The same goes with grouping. If I group with a player who clearly doesn't know what they are doing but they are willing to listen to advice about what they should do and area nice person, I am more than happy to help them. If they ignore or don't want advice or are just a jerk, then I am generally less helpful.
Newbs are unworthy of receiving help from a superior being such as myself.
I sure hope that was in jest otherwise you deserve an award for proving everything that's wrong with MMO "communities" in a mere 13 words.
You might want to ease off on this crusade to slap a scarlet letter on people.
For me, an example of "everything that is wrong with a community" is someone that has been reading the viewpoints of someone else in their community for four years and still can read dave6660's post above and not just miss that it was joking but castigate him for it. There's a certain level of ironic apathy or detachment involved there.
After four or five or six years hanging out in the same place - virtual or otherwise - someone still does not know anything about the regulars they interact with, presenting a clear disassociation from them and an obvious disinterest in getting to know them or at least their online persona. By itself, that's odd but it's what should be expected of some in online communities. However, you take it one step further and interject (twice in this thread alone) solely to tell others they are "everything that is wrong with online communities," a scarlet letter you brand upon them not by any fault of theirs, but due to your own failure or refusal to actually be a community-minded contributor yourself.
That behavior, grimgryphon, is everything that is wrong with online communities.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
It depends on what they want...If its just answering questions, then sure no problem...IF its constantly sitting in town begging, then I dont give them the time of day.....Uninfromed noobs are one thing, lazy noobs are something entirely different.
Originally posted by Theocritus It depends on what they want...If its just answering questions, then sure no problem...IF its constantly sitting in town begging, then I dont give them the time of day.....Uninfromed noobs are one thing, lazy noobs are something entirely different.
tbh. there is only one kind of noob. lazy noobs. because uninformed noobs are people who are too lazy to figure things out for them selves. making them lazy noobs
either that or they are asking questions about things wich do not concern them.
Newbs are unworthy of receiving help from a superior being such as myself.
I sure hope that was in jest otherwise you deserve an award for proving everything that's wrong with MMO "communities" in a mere 13 words.
Since you thought I was serious, I can see a bridge from my window that I'd like to sell you.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
It isn't just games. In life in general now a days a lot of people are really lazy and won't take the time (or energy) to figure anything out on their own. They want everyone to tell them what to do and how to do it and if possible a guide already showing them the way.
I don't bother with hostility towards newb questions that can be easily figured out on their own, I just ignore them. But I get tired of "You could figure that out if you tried for even a minute" questions in the real world to and it makes me sad every time I see someone so lazy.
Comments
There are a few really good examples of community at work in games, and of the best ones (readiest for several here to go ballistic over this) is GamersFirst. G1's community team in Fallen Earth and some of their other titles are part of the community, well-known individuals and take part in the game world, chatting, answering questions and running events. G1, even back when it was K2 Networks, has had service - in game and out - that keeps community a priority.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
There you go folks, the exact reason why MMO communities suck.
At least I now know to place Loktofeit is this bucket:
"The problem"
Instead of this bucket:
"The solution"
Taking that snippet out of context and ignoring my statement immediately after that, I could see how one would think that. Luckily, I have faith that the posters who are here for meaningful discussion will read the post in its entirety.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
That particular part of the poll drew from the particular newb (really happened).
All he wanted to know was how to remove a power from his bar (powers locked, by default). Experienced gamer probably figures it out, on his own, in a few seconds. But I can see someone who's not a vet not being able to find it. Nope, no docs.
What created the poll was how much abuse he took, before somebody gave him the simple, short answer he was looking for. Pointless hostility. So yep, it was an entirely one-sided poll devoted to sarcastic treatment of their sterling characters.
We can go into 'applause for helpful mentors' poll some other time, I guess. They certainly deserve some.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Eh, I'll toss an applause for helpful members here:
The APB:Reloaded community takes vulgarity and smack-talking to a whole new level when they're out on the streets of the game's San Paro city, but they're surprisingly helpful whenever a noob asks a question in chat or on the forums.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I am still trying to justify the rage. It is a very serious problem in the times we live in. People slowly lose the ability to look for answers on their own. It is becoming a handicap. It is noticable in every part of life, specially in schools and college but not exclusively. With each year people ask more and more stupid questions, the current span for trying to figure something out on your own is like 5 seconds and then you just google it. Not long ago people started to fail even on google... I know I am going way to deep into this, but I just felt the need to share...
Also the mentality... the demand... people get mad if you don't answer, like it is your duty, Also very often the person asking can be very impolite. Hard to find anyone that asks politely for something and is able to accept lack of answer.
This can be incredibly annoying, people expect that everyone will do all the work in figuring everything out for them...
I answer questions in games very often and I always try to be polite, but lets be honest I do get angry when I hear some questions, I won't try to make a great samaritan out of myself like some of the people here try to.
I don't believe this statement. I leave it as an exercise to Mr. Kujo to look up why I don't believe this.
Why thank you!
Sooo...I've been playing a lot of DOTA 2 lately, and I think you would be hard-pressed to find a game that is MORE hostile to "n00bs." I mean, if you are a n00b in DOTA 2, you should fully expect insults to your intelligence, demands that you commit suicide, and threats against your family...and these are just the more minor attacks.
As of now, I am not a n00b at DOTA 2, so I don't really get these attacks, except from idiots who are trying to blame their sucking on me
. But anyway, I have to say that this n00b abuse is one of the most despicable things about the PC gaming community. I mean, literally EVERY player on any game has been a n00b at some point. What kind of elitist jackass must someone be to constantly bully someone just for being new?
So what if a new player asks when they can change class in FFXIV, or gets ganked in DOTA 2? Instead of attacking them, why not just help them...answer their questions or help them avoid getting ganked in the future.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
First I voted muffins because your options are all negative.
Second how about this. If you are a Dick to newbs your IP and MAC address are upload to a database. Then at the leisure of non computer "Newbs" you can be hacked, and your computer shit bagged. Then you receive an email, text message or snail mail explaining that your douchbaggery led to the untimely demise of your PC. And if you were not a newb at Computers you would have had Elite countermeasures in place to prevent hacking.
Orderly conduct through Fear. It works for almost everything else.
This is a joke.
Ea is like a poo fingered midas ~ShakyMo
Now add in competitive team environments and strangers being tossed into each others' paths ... the negatives just get amplified. Even here.
Newbs are unworthy of receiving help from a superior being such as myself.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
How I treat new players depends on the player.
I remember back to the earlier days of Everquest when the game was pretty tough for new players. Sometimes people would send me tells out of the blue asking for me to give them money or gear. Those players I would not help.
However, if someone is a new player and is nice and is asking questions about their class, a quest, where they should go at a certain level, etc, I would be happy to help them. I might even give them some random gear I have laying around provided they didn't flat out beg me for handouts.
The same goes with grouping. If I group with a player who clearly doesn't know what they are doing but they are willing to listen to advice about what they should do and area nice person, I am more than happy to help them. If they ignore or don't want advice or are just a jerk, then I am generally less helpful.
I sure hope that was in jest otherwise you deserve an award for proving everything that's wrong with MMO "communities" in a mere 13 words.
You might want to ease off on this crusade to slap a scarlet letter on people.
For me, an example of "everything that is wrong with a community" is someone that has been reading the viewpoints of someone else in their community for four years and still can read dave6660's post above and not just miss that it was joking but castigate him for it. There's a certain level of ironic apathy or detachment involved there.
After four or five or six years hanging out in the same place - virtual or otherwise - someone still does not know anything about the regulars they interact with, presenting a clear disassociation from them and an obvious disinterest in getting to know them or at least their online persona. By itself, that's odd but it's what should be expected of some in online communities. However, you take it one step further and interject (twice in this thread alone) solely to tell others they are "everything that is wrong with online communities," a scarlet letter you brand upon them not by any fault of theirs, but due to your own failure or refusal to actually be a community-minded contributor yourself.
That behavior, grimgryphon, is everything that is wrong with online communities.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I don't think you'd get 10 smart ass answers to a genuine noob question even in a full pvp game like Darkfall.
Was this an ARPG or MOBA you were playing by chance?
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
-The MMO Forum Community
tbh. there is only one kind of noob. lazy noobs. because uninformed noobs are people who are too lazy to figure things out for them selves. making them lazy noobs
either that or they are asking questions about things wich do not concern them.
Since you thought I was serious, I can see a bridge from my window that I'd like to sell you.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
It truly depends on the question.
It isn't just games. In life in general now a days a lot of people are really lazy and won't take the time (or energy) to figure anything out on their own. They want everyone to tell them what to do and how to do it and if possible a guide already showing them the way.
I don't bother with hostility towards newb questions that can be easily figured out on their own, I just ignore them. But I get tired of "You could figure that out if you tried for even a minute" questions in the real world to and it makes me sad every time I see someone so lazy.
I made the assumption you were kidding, but on these forums it is entirely possible the post was serious.