For me, I like to play F2P games to try them out. However, if I find a game I like and wish to continue to play for months or years, I don't like F2p and hate everything about the payment model. I prefer a subscription or B2P once I've found my MMO home.
I'm cheap and poor so I prefer p2p games. For $15 a month I know no one can buy an advantage over anyone else. F2p games cost too much to be competitive in.
The point is making a premium game isn't easy. Who here could say they could do it? I'm no expert but making a premium game imo takes a lot of dow, intuition, talent and risk and maybe also luck and a lot of people. Anyone who is interested should try to do some art work, modeling, texturing, coding, designing(there are a lot of free softwares) etc to flesh out new ideas for the industry. The game developers are fleshing out new ideas all the time to create better games for the growing gaming community. I'm just excited about what the future brings for the mmo genre.
Talking about games where thousands of players exist simultaneously in a single instance and mechanics related to such games.
Originally posted by c0exist Bottom line is people play games for different reason even more so with mmo's. I personally would never play a f2p, that doesnt make me all high and mighty or better than anyone else. But i am in a minority of mmo gamer that prefers longevity and community. Others like nariusseldon prefer to play games that are fun and has no commitment to a specific game or company. And hell why not? They are giving you access to the game free. But i see it as pointless to start up an mmo if I know I will not stay. I can tell pretty quickly if i will. Games are for fun and those like nariusseldon (sorry im not pointing my finger at you, its just your names comes to mind first) play them as such. It makes perfect sense if you think about it i am just weird and prefer to be loyal to a game and developer and i will pay plenty of money to do so. Does that make me better that i will not touch a f2p game? Absolutely not. Its because what i look for in a game is different than many others.
Originally posted by Darknessguy64
For me, I like to play F2P games to try them out. However, if I find a game I like and wish to continue to play for months or years, I don't like F2p and hate everything about the payment model. I prefer a subscription or B2P once I've found my MMO home.
Though I appreciate the tolerance regarding different approaches to gaming payment models, I have to disagree with your arguments.
P2P does not automatically equate to longevity and community, just like B2P/F2P does not automatically equate to a lack of comitment; and vice versa.
It would probably more accurate to specifically refer to individual games and the ability or inability of the developers to deliver with regards to their respective game's payment model. But to make stereotypical statements without considering the inumerable variables involved with each individual game I think is inaccurate at the very least.
Originally posted by DamonVile I'm cheap and poor so I prefer p2p games. For $15 a month I know no one can buy an advantage over anyone else. F2p games cost too much to be competitive in.
That makes no sense to me.
How does in-game advantage have anything to do with your economic situation or spending habits? It appears that your prerequisite is not how poor or cheap you are but in-game advantage.
If you are poor and cheap, why would you ever pay a monthly fee when you there are plenty of F2P/B2P games out there that offer just as much entertainment for a fraction of the cost (or no cost at all)? And there are plenty of F2P/B2P games that are not P2W; GW2 is a great example.
Originally posted by DamonVile I'm cheap and poor so I prefer p2p games. For $15 a month I know no one can buy an advantage over anyone else. F2p games cost too much to be competitive in.
That is your problem.
If you just enjoy the gameplay yourself, there is no competition, particularly in pve games.
Originally posted by c0exist Bottom line is people play games for different reason even more so with mmo's. I personally would never play a f2p, that doesnt make me all high and mighty or better than anyone else. But i am in a minority of mmo gamer that prefers longevity and community. Others like nariusseldon prefer to play games that are fun and has no commitment to a specific game or company. And hell why not? They are giving you access to the game free. But i see it as pointless to start up an mmo if I know I will not stay. I can tell pretty quickly if i will. Games are for fun and those like nariusseldon (sorry im not pointing my finger at you, its just your names comes to mind first) play them as such. It makes perfect sense if you think about it i am just weird and prefer to be loyal to a game and developer and i will pay plenty of money to do so. Does that make me better that i will not touch a f2p game? Absolutely not. Its because what i look for in a game is different than many others.
Originally posted by Darknessguy64
For me, I like to play F2P games to try them out. However, if I find a game I like and wish to continue to play for months or years, I don't like F2p and hate everything about the payment model. I prefer a subscription or B2P once I've found my MMO home.
Though I appreciate the tolerance regarding different approaches to gaming payment models, I have to disagree with your arguments.
P2P does not automatically equate to longevity and community, just like B2P/F2P does not automatically equate to a lack of comitment; and vice versa.
It would probably more accurate to specifically refer to individual games and the ability or inability of the developers to deliver with regards to their respective game's payment model. But to make stereotypical statements without considering the inumerable variables involved with each individual game I think is inaccurate at the very least.
p2p does not equal longevity, that is correct. But all games with longevity are p2p.
Originally posted by c0exist Bottom line is people play games for different reason even more so with mmo's. I personally would never play a f2p, that doesnt make me all high and mighty or better than anyone else. But i am in a minority of mmo gamer that prefers longevity and community. Others like nariusseldon prefer to play games that are fun and has no commitment to a specific game or company. And hell why not? They are giving you access to the game free. But i see it as pointless to start up an mmo if I know I will not stay. I can tell pretty quickly if i will. Games are for fun and those like nariusseldon (sorry im not pointing my finger at you, its just your names comes to mind first) play them as such. It makes perfect sense if you think about it i am just weird and prefer to be loyal to a game and developer and i will pay plenty of money to do so. Does that make me better that i will not touch a f2p game? Absolutely not. Its because what i look for in a game is different than many others.
Originally posted by Darknessguy64
For me, I like to play F2P games to try them out. However, if I find a game I like and wish to continue to play for months or years, I don't like F2p and hate everything about the payment model. I prefer a subscription or B2P once I've found my MMO home.
Though I appreciate the tolerance regarding different approaches to gaming payment models, I have to disagree with your arguments.
P2P does not automatically equate to longevity and community, just like B2P/F2P does not automatically equate to a lack of comitment; and vice versa.
It would probably more accurate to specifically refer to individual games and the ability or inability of the developers to deliver with regards to their respective game's payment model. But to make stereotypical statements without considering the inumerable variables involved with each individual game I think is inaccurate at the very least.
p2p does not equal longevity, that is correct. But all games with longevity are p2p.
Naw. With newer games that can't be proven because they are newer.
However there have been f2p games around for years, since before UO.
And EQ, EQ2, lotro are all f2p now. Years for Lotro, a couple for eq2.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by c0exist Bottom line is people play games for different reason even more so with mmo's. I personally would never play a f2p, that doesnt make me all high and mighty or better than anyone else. But i am in a minority of mmo gamer that prefers longevity and community. Others like nariusseldon prefer to play games that are fun and has no commitment to a specific game or company. And hell why not? They are giving you access to the game free. But i see it as pointless to start up an mmo if I know I will not stay. I can tell pretty quickly if i will. Games are for fun and those like nariusseldon (sorry im not pointing my finger at you, its just your names comes to mind first) play them as such. It makes perfect sense if you think about it i am just weird and prefer to be loyal to a game and developer and i will pay plenty of money to do so. Does that make me better that i will not touch a f2p game? Absolutely not. Its because what i look for in a game is different than many others.
Originally posted by Darknessguy64
For me, I like to play F2P games to try them out. However, if I find a game I like and wish to continue to play for months or years, I don't like F2p and hate everything about the payment model. I prefer a subscription or B2P once I've found my MMO home.
Though I appreciate the tolerance regarding different approaches to gaming payment models, I have to disagree with your arguments.
P2P does not automatically equate to longevity and community, just like B2P/F2P does not automatically equate to a lack of comitment; and vice versa.
It would probably more accurate to specifically refer to individual games and the ability or inability of the developers to deliver with regards to their respective game's payment model. But to make stereotypical statements without considering the inumerable variables involved with each individual game I think is inaccurate at the very least.
p2p does not equal longevity, that is correct. But all games with longevity are p2p.
GW1, a B2P game, is over 8 years old and still kicking.
Not only are not all games with longevity P2P games, but not all longevity is good; sometimes is better for a game to either just die once and for all or to re-invent itself.
Originally posted by Corehaven I do. I'm 31 years old. I like Pirates of the Burning Sea, Star Trek Online, GW2 (or I used to), World of Tanks, and World of Planes. Have a good deal of fun in all of them. My best friend from way back in college likes some of them too, and we play together some when we both have time. I've also paid for games or paid monthlies. However I didn't see a great divide in entertainment value between the two ( F2P and monthly ). I do like there are games I can download that day, and dive into without paying a red cent. Once upon a time, that wasn't even a daydream. It just wasn't a thing. So it's pretty cool as far as I'm concerned. No harm in it.
How much $ have you spent in cash shops and over what time period? I'm only asking because I want to learn how much people are spending on these "free" games.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Why again are you playing your free game 20h week? Free clearly lacks quality that a 15 mmo veteran demands.
Quality and quantity are two different things. Truth of the matter is games today are filled with better quality, problem is they lack quantity. Old mmos lacked quality but made up for it in quantity of time sinks. They lacked production value, lacked in game-play, lacked in execution, they lacked in tech. These things are what makes up the quality of life in a gaming experience. They sacrificed for abundance, they added length to a subscription by penalizing progression. The mainstay was in the players themselves, they provided the long-term end-game, they manufactured it.
Anyway, the problem today isn't one of quality, it's quantity, which is sacrificed to offer quality.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I like Pirates of the Burning Sea, Star Trek Online, GW2 (or I used to), World of Tanks, and World of Planes.
Have a good deal of fun in all of them. My best friend from way back in college likes some of them too, and we play together some when we both have time. I've also paid for games or paid monthlies. However I didn't see a great divide in entertainment value between the two ( F2P and monthly ).
I do like there are games I can download that day, and dive into without paying a red cent. Once upon a time, that wasn't even a daydream. It just wasn't a thing. So it's pretty cool as far as I'm concerned. No harm in it.
How much $ have you spent in cash shops and over what time period? I'm only asking because I want to learn how much people are spending on these "free" games.
But that's the beauty of B2P/F2P; you have the choice. In P2P you have no choice.
In GW2, players have the choice to spend real money in the gem store or you can trade in-game gold for gems and then buy stuff from the gem store. In GW2, my wife and I have the choice to either spend money or not; when we were playing WOW, we had no choice but to pay the monthly fees, including when we were not even playing the game!
Originally posted by c0exist Bottom line is people play games for different reason even more so with mmo's. I personally would never play a f2p, that doesnt make me all high and mighty or better than anyone else. But i am in a minority of mmo gamer that prefers longevity and community. Others like nariusseldon prefer to play games that are fun and has no commitment to a specific game or company. And hell why not? They are giving you access to the game free. But i see it as pointless to start up an mmo if I know I will not stay. I can tell pretty quickly if i will. Games are for fun and those like nariusseldon (sorry im not pointing my finger at you, its just your names comes to mind first) play them as such. It makes perfect sense if you think about it i am just weird and prefer to be loyal to a game and developer and i will pay plenty of money to do so. Does that make me better that i will not touch a f2p game? Absolutely not. Its because what i look for in a game is different than many others.
Originally posted by Darknessguy64
For me, I like to play F2P games to try them out. However, if I find a game I like and wish to continue to play for months or years, I don't like F2p and hate everything about the payment model. I prefer a subscription or B2P once I've found my MMO home.
Though I appreciate the tolerance regarding different approaches to gaming payment models, I have to disagree with your arguments.
P2P does not automatically equate to longevity and community, just like B2P/F2P does not automatically equate to a lack of comitment; and vice versa.
It would probably more accurate to specifically refer to individual games and the ability or inability of the developers to deliver with regards to their respective game's payment model. But to make stereotypical statements without considering the inumerable variables involved with each individual game I think is inaccurate at the very least.
I, traditionally a P2Player, like paying a monthly fee because I like enjoying the best the game has to offer. All the content and boons from such a sub. I pay the sub and then the rest is up to me. Go fast, slow, explore, craft and fight my way into adventure and have alot of fun doing it without having to buy anything more. I have friends of a similar age than I and none of us are gaming on consoles.
Gaming on consoles can be fun. They are not as expensive as PCs but I have found that alot of games designed with a console in mind are less command driven and more control driven respectively. If you are on a budget a console and a F2P game can put you into the action without alot of money...if the game has been out a while.
New games, you’re going to take the $60 hit regardless of platform. No copying software, its all about the code and they will get their $60 if the game is half way decent. If I am on a tight budget, I’m not kicking down money on a game anyway. And I have been in the past. I do not burn time playing either if I need to work more to make ends meat. That said, an MMO is about commerce. A company puts a game out to make money. It makes more money when a game is great and there are lots of men and women behind each game that are doing their jobs like everyone else. If these games don’t do well and allow a company to break even, people still were employed and made money on them.
That said most F2P games are either tryng to break even (and keeping people employed while doing it) or trying to make a profit. P2P games make alot of money in the first few months but both models, when released, require this $60-$100(for CE folks) to get you online. I feel this is what they are really after. There is little interest in making a lasting game. They hype it and make it playable by everyone to get that initial $60 and then….fizzle, pop, F2P...done. Have you noticed the quality of P2P games waning? I have, why do you think that is? It’s to get us MMOers to buy Single player games in an MMOs clothing. It’s a frickin rip off plain and simple. I’ve been playing MMORPGs since April 23, 1999 and these games are not real MMOs anymore. How can they be when it’s just a lot of Soloers and Moloers filling up the game? Having alot of people online in the same place doesn’t make it a MMO. I can appreciate that people don’t want to or can’t pay a sub. Alot of older games now allow you to DL their software for free and play F2P with a modest amount of content. If you have fun playing your game this way...um, you’re good, you’re solid. You spend your free time having fun with your buds or solo. There is nothing wrong with it.
But….
I have a $3k computer setup and I am looking for a new game with sweet graphics and a vast landscape to adventure in. If a sub (I’m waiting on TESO) game can give me what I desire, who is anyone to tell me I’m wrong? There is something to be said when a game publisher launches a game with a sub. It is becoming rarer and rarer for gaming companies to stand behind their products because not many really do anymore. P2P invites expectation for support, CS and content updates throughout the experience. (not that it happens all the time to be sure) But both models mostly just want their $60 up front then if you buy more pixels on top of that and the game is just ok? *scratches head*
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
I like Pirates of the Burning Sea, Star Trek Online, GW2 (or I used to), World of Tanks, and World of Planes.
Have a good deal of fun in all of them. My best friend from way back in college likes some of them too, and we play together some when we both have time. I've also paid for games or paid monthlies. However I didn't see a great divide in entertainment value between the two ( F2P and monthly ).
I do like there are games I can download that day, and dive into without paying a red cent. Once upon a time, that wasn't even a daydream. It just wasn't a thing. So it's pretty cool as far as I'm concerned. No harm in it.
How much $ have you spent in cash shops and over what time period? I'm only asking because I want to learn how much people are spending on these "free" games.
On my free account in EQ, 30 dollars over the last year (have not played it a year continuosly, just off/on, say 4 months). I also have a gold account that I box with.
In EQ2, a couple hundred over a few months. I really enjoyed building my castle, and thats what it costs, so I spent a lot. That item limit still cheeses me. Found the game itself a bit dull for my taste, but enjoyed the castle.
In CoH when it went free - nothing - off/on a couple years (however long it was f2p)
DCUO - nothing, 2 months.
Those are the main ones, all the others ones - only a week or so and nothing.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
p2p does not equal longevity, that is correct. But all games with longevity are p2p.
Since I doubt you have data on retention rates, I'm curious what you are basing that on.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Lol, the gaming world is being ruined by F2p, now most games are becoming pay to win, and its not the little kids using their mom's and dads credit card, its these older people with house's, jet ski's, and all that other stuff you said(that have money to waste), that sit here and spend thousands of dollars on these F2p games just to win. Credit card warriors are the new thing. I know people that spent up to 100k on a free to play game, its just absurd to think about, but hey if you got it like that more power to ya, but in the end it just turns off the older gamers that really like a challenge and the skill it took to compete on higher level, now its just about who can spend more money. guess who that is? Its the older people.
You want skilled games, where money don't matter stick to FPS games, seem to be only market not ruined by F2p now. You can't buy aim! well you could buy hacks, but that's not the same issues as some of these other games, where you can just buy wins. I love the people that sit there and brag about how much money they spent on a video game, just makes me laugh and think how pathetic they are, maybe not in real life cause they have that kind of money to spend, but in the virtual world they are pathetic, but does that really matter?
Its a sad sad era for gaming, All companies are seeing the benefit to f2p as it brings in more money then making the subscription based games, or pay once and that's its.
Money is ruining gaming, its not about good games any more, its about how can this game make the most money, and thats the end of the story. Its not that dev's don't want to listen to the players, they have to listen to their investors more. and that's the bottem line, some prick CEO who don't even play video games, is making the decisions.
Not to mention people spending loads of money on are half ass programmed games coming from some Asian country, All the american's have da monies to spend! and lots feed right into it, otherwise we wouldn't be seeing these p2win games like we do now.
p2p does not equal longevity, that is correct. But all games with longevity are p2p.
Since I doubt you have data on retention rates, I'm curious what you are basing that on.
Do you disagree with the statement? Name me a f2p game that one can play for years. Because what I see is they pop up in masses; those that play play for months and move on to the next one. Im not bashing f2p and am sorry if i hurt your feelings but they are like a concubine. Use them til you get bored and go on to the next.
Lol, the gaming world is being ruined by F2p, now most games are becoming pay to win, and its not the little kids using their mom's and dads credit card, its these older people with house's, jet ski's, and all that other stuff you said(that have money to waste), that sit here and spend thousands of dollars on these F2p games just to win. Credit card warriors are the new thing. I know people that spent up to 100k on a free to play game, its just absurd to think about, but hey if you got it like that more power to ya, but in the end it just turns off the older gamers that really like a challenge and the skill it took to compete on higher level, now its just about who can spend more money. guess who that is? Its the older people.
You want skilled games, where money don't matter stick to FPS games, seem to be only market not ruined by F2p now. You can't buy aim! well you could buy hacks, but that's not the same issues as some of these other games, where you can just buy wins. I love the people that sit there and brag about how much money they spent on a video game, just makes me laugh and think how pathetic they are, maybe not in real life cause they have that kind of money to spend, but in the virtual world they are pathetic, but does that really matter?
Its a sad sad era for gaming, All companies are seeing the benefit to f2p as it brings in more money then making the subscription based games, or pay once and that's its.
Money is ruining gaming, its not about good games any more, its about how can this game make the most money, and thats the end of the story. Its not that dev's don't want to listen to the players, they have to listen to their investors more. and that's the bottem line, some prick CEO who don't even play video games, is making the decisions.
Not to mention people spending loads of money on are half ass programmed games coming from some Asian country, All the american's have da monies to spend! and lots feed right into it, otherwise we wouldn't be seeing these p2win games like we do now.
You got stats to back up your claim? I personally know of people who spend at most hundreds of dollars, but not thousands.
Funny thing (not really) is that back in the day, when I played wow, I probably spent over $1,500 in buying gold from chinese farmers and not once did my account got hacked; and that was in a P2P game, not a B2P/F2P.
Since then I've reformed my ways (thanks to being married and having a famliy) and no longer buy gold. GW2 does a great job in discouraging gold farmers and buyers of gold from gold farmers and in my opinion has the best working cash shop in the industry; allowing for items worth buying to be sold but without ruining gameplay.
Money does not ruining gaming, gamers ruin gaming.
p2p does not equal longevity, that is correct. But all games with longevity are p2p.
Since I doubt you have data on retention rates, I'm curious what you are basing that on.
Do you disagree with the statement? Name me a f2p game that one can play for years. Because what I see is they pop up in masses; those that play play for months and move on to the next one. Im not bashing f2p and am sorry if i hurt your feelings but they are like a concubine. Use them til you get bored and go on to the next.
Mine was a simple, logical question considering you stated that as fact. That you perceived that as defensiveness and felt the need to reply in an insulting manner is rather telling, though.
What data on retention are you basing that on?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
What really gets me irate about all the F2P models is that you get all these people screaming F2P F2P F2P, then they end up subbing anyway because it offers the cheapest access to all the content.
p2p does not equal longevity, that is correct. But all games with longevity are p2p.
Since I doubt you have data on retention rates, I'm curious what you are basing that on.
Do you disagree with the statement? Name me a f2p game that one can play for years. Because what I see is they pop up in masses; those that play play for months and move on to the next one. Im not bashing f2p and am sorry if i hurt your feelings but they are like a concubine. Use them til you get bored and go on to the next.
GW1 (B2P) for one. Last time I checked, FLYFF (F2P) and ROSE Online (F2P) are also still kicking
p2p does not equal longevity, that is correct. But all games with longevity are p2p.
Since I doubt you have data on retention rates, I'm curious what you are basing that on.
Do you disagree with the statement? Name me a f2p game that one can play for years. Because what I see is they pop up in masses; those that play play for months and move on to the next one. Im not bashing f2p and am sorry if i hurt your feelings but they are like a concubine. Use them til you get bored and go on to the next.
GW1 (B2P) for one. Last time I checked, FLYFF (F2P) and ROSE Online (F2P) are also still kicking
Add to that Puzzle Pirates, Free Realms, Furcadia , Shattered Galaxy, Runescape, Travian, Neocron...
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
What really gets me irate about all the F2P models is that you get all these people screaming F2P F2P F2P, then they end up subbing anyway because it offers the cheapest access to all the content.
Grrr.
The key difference is the option players have to chose whether they wish to play the game as B2P/F2P or P2P.
p2p does not equal longevity, that is correct. But all games with longevity are p2p.
Since I doubt you have data on retention rates, I'm curious what you are basing that on.
Do you disagree with the statement? Name me a f2p game that one can play for years. Because what I see is they pop up in masses; those that play play for months and move on to the next one. Im not bashing f2p and am sorry if i hurt your feelings but they are like a concubine. Use them til you get bored and go on to the next.
Completely.
EQ, EQ2, Lotro, Aion, Age of Wushu... just to name a few.
I don't know about you, but thats whey I use ALL entertainment. Use them till I'm bored. If they are no longer entertaining, they are not serving their purpose.
"Im not bashing f2p ...but they are like a concubine." I wonder what you do consider bashing.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
p2p does not equal longevity, that is correct. But all games with longevity are p2p.
Since I doubt you have data on retention rates, I'm curious what you are basing that on.
Do you disagree with the statement? Name me a f2p game that one can play for years. Because what I see is they pop up in masses; those that play play for months and move on to the next one. Im not bashing f2p and am sorry if i hurt your feelings but they are like a concubine. Use them til you get bored and go on to the next.
GW1 (B2P) for one. Last time I checked, FLYFF (F2P) and ROSE Online (F2P) are also still kicking
Add to that Puzzle Pirates, Free Realms, Furcadia , Shattered Galaxy, Runescape, Travian, Neocron...
My manner was absolutely not insulting i was merely stating a pretty accurate analogy of what a f2p game is. But have fun playing Puzzle Pirates lol.
Comments
For me, I like to play F2P games to try them out. However, if I find a game I like and wish to continue to play for months or years, I don't like F2p and hate everything about the payment model. I prefer a subscription or B2P once I've found my MMO home.
Though I appreciate the tolerance regarding different approaches to gaming payment models, I have to disagree with your arguments.
P2P does not automatically equate to longevity and community, just like B2P/F2P does not automatically equate to a lack of comitment; and vice versa.
It would probably more accurate to specifically refer to individual games and the ability or inability of the developers to deliver with regards to their respective game's payment model. But to make stereotypical statements without considering the inumerable variables involved with each individual game I think is inaccurate at the very least.
That makes no sense to me.
How does in-game advantage have anything to do with your economic situation or spending habits? It appears that your prerequisite is not how poor or cheap you are but in-game advantage.
If you are poor and cheap, why would you ever pay a monthly fee when you there are plenty of F2P/B2P games out there that offer just as much entertainment for a fraction of the cost (or no cost at all)? And there are plenty of F2P/B2P games that are not P2W; GW2 is a great example.
That is your problem.
If you just enjoy the gameplay yourself, there is no competition, particularly in pve games.
p2p does not equal longevity, that is correct. But all games with longevity are p2p.
Naw. With newer games that can't be proven because they are newer.
However there have been f2p games around for years, since before UO.
And EQ, EQ2, lotro are all f2p now. Years for Lotro, a couple for eq2.
GW1, a B2P game, is over 8 years old and still kicking.
Not only are not all games with longevity P2P games, but not all longevity is good; sometimes is better for a game to either just die once and for all or to re-invent itself.
How much $ have you spent in cash shops and over what time period? I'm only asking because I want to learn how much people are spending on these "free" games.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Quality and quantity are two different things. Truth of the matter is games today are filled with better quality, problem is they lack quantity. Old mmos lacked quality but made up for it in quantity of time sinks. They lacked production value, lacked in game-play, lacked in execution, they lacked in tech. These things are what makes up the quality of life in a gaming experience. They sacrificed for abundance, they added length to a subscription by penalizing progression. The mainstay was in the players themselves, they provided the long-term end-game, they manufactured it.
Anyway, the problem today isn't one of quality, it's quantity, which is sacrificed to offer quality.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
But that's the beauty of B2P/F2P; you have the choice. In P2P you have no choice.
In GW2, players have the choice to spend real money in the gem store or you can trade in-game gold for gems and then buy stuff from the gem store. In GW2, my wife and I have the choice to either spend money or not; when we were playing WOW, we had no choice but to pay the monthly fees, including when we were not even playing the game!
I, traditionally a P2Player, like paying a monthly fee because I like enjoying the best the game has to offer. All the content and boons from such a sub. I pay the sub and then the rest is up to me. Go fast, slow, explore, craft and fight my way into adventure and have alot of fun doing it without having to buy anything more. I have friends of a similar age than I and none of us are gaming on consoles.
Gaming on consoles can be fun. They are not as expensive as PCs but I have found that alot of games designed with a console in mind are less command driven and more control driven respectively. If you are on a budget a console and a F2P game can put you into the action without alot of money...if the game has been out a while.
New games, you’re going to take the $60 hit regardless of platform. No copying software, its all about the code and they will get their $60 if the game is half way decent. If I am on a tight budget, I’m not kicking down money on a game anyway. And I have been in the past. I do not burn time playing either if I need to work more to make ends meat. That said, an MMO is about commerce. A company puts a game out to make money. It makes more money when a game is great and there are lots of men and women behind each game that are doing their jobs like everyone else. If these games don’t do well and allow a company to break even, people still were employed and made money on them.
That said most F2P games are either tryng to break even (and keeping people employed while doing it) or trying to make a profit. P2P games make alot of money in the first few months but both models, when released, require this $60-$100(for CE folks) to get you online. I feel this is what they are really after. There is little interest in making a lasting game. They hype it and make it playable by everyone to get that initial $60 and then….fizzle, pop, F2P...done. Have you noticed the quality of P2P games waning? I have, why do you think that is? It’s to get us MMOers to buy Single player games in an MMOs clothing. It’s a frickin rip off plain and simple. I’ve been playing MMORPGs since April 23, 1999 and these games are not real MMOs anymore. How can they be when it’s just a lot of Soloers and Moloers filling up the game? Having alot of people online in the same place doesn’t make it a MMO. I can appreciate that people don’t want to or can’t pay a sub. Alot of older games now allow you to DL their software for free and play F2P with a modest amount of content. If you have fun playing your game this way...um, you’re good, you’re solid. You spend your free time having fun with your buds or solo. There is nothing wrong with it.
But….
I have a $3k computer setup and I am looking for a new game with sweet graphics and a vast landscape to adventure in. If a sub (I’m waiting on TESO) game can give me what I desire, who is anyone to tell me I’m wrong? There is something to be said when a game publisher launches a game with a sub. It is becoming rarer and rarer for gaming companies to stand behind their products because not many really do anymore. P2P invites expectation for support, CS and content updates throughout the experience. (not that it happens all the time to be sure) But both models mostly just want their $60 up front then if you buy more pixels on top of that and the game is just ok? *scratches head*
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
On my free account in EQ, 30 dollars over the last year (have not played it a year continuosly, just off/on, say 4 months). I also have a gold account that I box with.
In EQ2, a couple hundred over a few months. I really enjoyed building my castle, and thats what it costs, so I spent a lot. That item limit still cheeses me.
Found the game itself a bit dull for my taste, but enjoyed the castle.
In CoH when it went free - nothing - off/on a couple years (however long it was f2p)
DCUO - nothing, 2 months.
Those are the main ones, all the others ones - only a week or so and nothing.
Since I doubt you have data on retention rates, I'm curious what you are basing that on.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Lol, the gaming world is being ruined by F2p, now most games are becoming pay to win, and its not the little kids using their mom's and dads credit card, its these older people with house's, jet ski's, and all that other stuff you said(that have money to waste), that sit here and spend thousands of dollars on these F2p games just to win. Credit card warriors are the new thing. I know people that spent up to 100k on a free to play game, its just absurd to think about, but hey if you got it like that more power to ya, but in the end it just turns off the older gamers that really like a challenge and the skill it took to compete on higher level, now its just about who can spend more money. guess who that is? Its the older people.
You want skilled games, where money don't matter stick to FPS games, seem to be only market not ruined by F2p now. You can't buy aim! well you could buy hacks, but that's not the same issues as some of these other games, where you can just buy wins. I love the people that sit there and brag about how much money they spent on a video game, just makes me laugh and think how pathetic they are, maybe not in real life cause they have that kind of money to spend, but in the virtual world they are pathetic, but does that really matter?
Its a sad sad era for gaming, All companies are seeing the benefit to f2p as it brings in more money then making the subscription based games, or pay once and that's its.
Money is ruining gaming, its not about good games any more, its about how can this game make the most money, and thats the end of the story. Its not that dev's don't want to listen to the players, they have to listen to their investors more. and that's the bottem line, some prick CEO who don't even play video games, is making the decisions.
Not to mention people spending loads of money on are half ass programmed games coming from some Asian country, All the american's have da monies to spend! and lots feed right into it, otherwise we wouldn't be seeing these p2win games like we do now.
Do you disagree with the statement? Name me a f2p game that one can play for years. Because what I see is they pop up in masses; those that play play for
months and move on to the next one. Im not bashing f2p and am sorry if i hurt your feelings but they are like a concubine. Use them til you get bored and go on to the next.
You got stats to back up your claim? I personally know of people who spend at most hundreds of dollars, but not thousands.
Funny thing (not really) is that back in the day, when I played wow, I probably spent over $1,500 in buying gold from chinese farmers and not once did my account got hacked; and that was in a P2P game, not a B2P/F2P.
Since then I've reformed my ways (thanks to being married and having a famliy) and no longer buy gold. GW2 does a great job in discouraging gold farmers and buyers of gold from gold farmers and in my opinion has the best working cash shop in the industry; allowing for items worth buying to be sold but without ruining gameplay.
Money does not ruining gaming, gamers ruin gaming.
Mine was a simple, logical question considering you stated that as fact. That you perceived that as defensiveness and felt the need to reply in an insulting manner is rather telling, though.
What data on retention are you basing that on?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
What really gets me irate about all the F2P models is that you get all these people screaming F2P F2P F2P, then they end up subbing anyway because it offers the cheapest access to all the content.
Grrr.
GW1 (B2P) for one. Last time I checked, FLYFF (F2P) and ROSE Online (F2P) are also still kicking
Add to that Puzzle Pirates, Free Realms, Furcadia , Shattered Galaxy, Runescape, Travian, Neocron...
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The key difference is the option players have to chose whether they wish to play the game as B2P/F2P or P2P.
Completely.
EQ, EQ2, Lotro, Aion, Age of Wushu... just to name a few.
I don't know about you, but thats whey I use ALL entertainment. Use them till I'm bored. If they are no longer entertaining, they are not serving their purpose.
"Im not bashing f2p ...but they are like a concubine." I wonder what you do consider bashing.
My manner was absolutely not insulting i was merely stating a pretty accurate analogy of what a f2p game is. But have fun playing Puzzle Pirates lol.