That just creates an other problem. Who the hell would want to turn off this system just to put himself at a great disadvantage? Especially when the game is online and when there's open world pvp server?
What i want, is an open world pvp with no telegraph. Those who started in a pve server with telegraph shouldnt be able to transfer their character in a pvp server with no telegraph because of the good start they would get.
That just creates an other problem. Who the hell would want to turn off this system just to put himself at a great disadvantage? Especially when the game is online and when there's open world pvp server?
What i want, is an open world pvp with no telegraph. Those who started in a pve server with telegraph shouldnt be able to transfer their character in a pvp server with no telegraph because of the good start they would get.
These options would make me want to try the game.
Why are MMO players so concerned with how other people play the game? If you're a good player you won't be at a disadvantage at all.
Wildstar will never be open world pvp. MMO PvP will always be pointless because of gear/levels. The fact that you can innately have an advantage over another player is what attracts turds to MMO pvp. Go fight someone on fair terms.
That just creates an other problem. Who the hell would want to turn off this system just to put himself at a great disadvantage? Especially when the game is online and when there's open world pvp server?
What i want, is an open world pvp with no telegraph. Those who started in a pve server with telegraph shouldnt be able to transfer their character in a pvp server with no telegraph because of the good start they would get.
These options would make me want to try the game.
Why are MMO players so concerned with how other people play the game? If you're a good player you won't be at a disadvantage at all.
Wildstar will never be open world pvp. MMO PvP will always be pointless because of gear/levels. The fact that you can innately have an advantage over another player is what attracts turds to MMO pvp. Go fight someone on fair terms.
Can you imagine how hard the level cap telegraphs fights will be?.... Now I want you to make a squishy DPS guy, turn off your telegraphs (Mr. Good player) and then run these three boses with your telegraphs off. I wonder how fast your group will boot you or your tank and healer will leave and get back in their 3 mins queues, just because their silly little squishy DPS guy keeps getting DESTROYED because he has no clue where the BOOM spots are and just sits in them like a idiot.
I'm guessing after the first wipe tank /tells the healer to boot you and get another DPS or the vice versa. Or if it's cross server instance group the Tank or healer (I know you seen this one before) just sits in one spot for a min after a wipe and then DC's, logs back in gets in his/her 3 mins queue and runs with a group that has their telegraphs on!
Better yet I'm pretty sure that after having failed a few runs due to people having telegraphs off and causing their groups to wipe, the tank and the healer will demand that everyone has their telegraphs on in every group they get into. And if they see that you don't (ala your not avoiding the telegraphs you CANNOT SEE) you get the boot or they leave.
I'm sure this will not only apply to DPS types, if a healer has a tank doesn't try to avoid anything he will probably do pretty much what has been said above.. So you can pretty much insert any class in the mix.
------------------------------ You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
That just creates an other problem. Who the hell would want to turn off this system just to put himself at a great disadvantage? Especially when the game is online and when there's open world pvp server?
What i want, is an open world pvp with no telegraph. Those who started in a pve server with telegraph shouldnt be able to transfer their character in a pvp server with no telegraph because of the good start they would get.
These options would make me want to try the game.
Why are MMO players so concerned with how other people play the game? If you're a good player you won't be at a disadvantage at all.
Wildstar will never be open world pvp. MMO PvP will always be pointless because of gear/levels. The fact that you can innately have an advantage over another player is what attracts turds to MMO pvp. Go fight someone on fair terms.
Can you imagine how hard the level cap telegraphs fights will be?.... Now I want you to make a squishy DPS guy, turn off your telegraphs (Mr. Good player) and then run these three boses with your telegraphs off. I wonder how fast your group will boot you or your tank and healer will leave and get back in their 3 mins queues, just because their silly little squishy DPS guy keeps getting DESTROYED because he has no clue where the BOOM spots are and just sits in them like a idiot.
I'm guessing after the first wipe tank /tells the healer to boot you and get another DPS or the vice versa. Or if it's cross server instance group the Tank or healer (I know you seen this one before) just sits in one spot for a min after a wipe and then DC's, logs back in gets in his/her 3 mins queue and runs with a group that has their telegraphs on!
Better yet I'm pretty sure that after having failed a few runs due to people having telegraphs off and causing their groups to wipe, the tank and the healer will demand that everyone has their telegraphs on in every group they get into. And if they see that you don't (ala your not avoiding the telegraphs you CANNOT SEE) you get the boot or they leave.
I'm sure this will not only apply to DPS types, if a healer has a tank doesn't try to avoid anything he will probably do pretty much what has been said above.. So you can pretty much insert any class in the mix.
You talk about booting me off, but i already said that i'm not gonna play wild star if there will be no server with telegraph off and pvp on.
Now, you just sound like someone who wants to beat every dungeon, bosses, raids, what ever in one shot. You don't want a second try.
I'm not a wow player, but i heard about how many time they had to fail to complete one raid. You can even lose in a dungeon, not only in a pvp arena. Now that the addon for telegraph exist, i bet you get booted for not downloading it and this is why i will never play wow again. Addons and autohotkeys should not even exist
My question to you, why do you hate losing that much? Losing is a part of life and it allows you to learn from your mistakes before you can advance. This whole telegraph system simply removes the whole aspect of losing and learning.
As for the immersion, it completely breaks it. Red giant dots all across the room will get old very quick. EQN use a telegraph too, but not for every abilities. Spell effects over interface system that's showing you what's going on, but it shouldnt be too obvious at the same time.
That just creates an other problem. Who the hell would want to turn off this system just to put himself at a great disadvantage? Especially when the game is online and when there's open world pvp server?
What i want, is an open world pvp with no telegraph. Those who started in a pve server with telegraph shouldnt be able to transfer their character in a pvp server with no telegraph because of the good start they would get.
These options would make me want to try the game.
Why are MMO players so concerned with how other people play the game? If you're a good player you won't be at a disadvantage at all.
Wildstar will never be open world pvp. MMO PvP will always be pointless because of gear/levels. The fact that you can innately have an advantage over another player is what attracts turds to MMO pvp. Go fight someone on fair terms.
Can you imagine how hard the level cap telegraphs fights will be?.... Now I want you to make a squishy DPS guy, turn off your telegraphs (Mr. Good player) and then run these three boses with your telegraphs off. I wonder how fast your group will boot you or your tank and healer will leave and get back in their 3 mins queues, just because their silly little squishy DPS guy keeps getting DESTROYED because he has no clue where the BOOM spots are and just sits in them like a idiot.
I'm guessing after the first wipe tank /tells the healer to boot you and get another DPS or the vice versa. Or if it's cross server instance group the Tank or healer (I know you seen this one before) just sits in one spot for a min after a wipe and then DC's, logs back in gets in his/her 3 mins queue and runs with a group that has their telegraphs on!
Better yet I'm pretty sure that after having failed a few runs due to people having telegraphs off and causing their groups to wipe, the tank and the healer will demand that everyone has their telegraphs on in every group they get into. And if they see that you don't (ala your not avoiding the telegraphs you CANNOT SEE) you get the boot or they leave.
I'm sure this will not only apply to DPS types, if a healer has a tank doesn't try to avoid anything he will probably do pretty much what has been said above.. So you can pretty much insert any class in the mix.
You talk about booting me off, but i already said that i'm not gonna play wild star if there will be no server with telegraph off and pvp on.
Now, you just sound like someone who wants to beat every dungeon, bosses, raids, what ever in one shot. You don't want a second try.
I'm not a wow player, but i heard about how many time they had to fail to complete one raid. You can even lose in a dungeon, not only in a pvp arena. Now that the addon for telegraph exist, i bet you get booted for not downloading it and this is why i will never play wow again. Addons and autohotkeys should not even exist
My question to you, why do you hate losing that much? Losing is a part of life and it allows you to learn from your mistakes before you can advance. This whole telegraph system simply removes the whole aspect of losing and learning.
As for the immersion, it completely breaks it. Red giant dots all across the room will get old very quick. EQN use a telegraph too, but not for every abilities. Spell effects over interface system that's showing you what's going on, but it shouldnt be too obvious at the same time.
I'm going to try to break this down for you real simple like.
EVEN WITH THE TELEGRAPHS THE GAME WAS STILL PRETTY HARD!
So um no, I don't want to beat the dungeons, quest and/or adventures (what ever the hell they are) on the first try nor do I think I could.
You haven't even played this game yet you seem to think that as long as you step out of ever telegraph all is good in the world. Yeah it helps, a lot, but Mobs still do white damage and the encounters are usual with MULTIPLE MOBS. Atleast when I got to play it earlier in the year at a show that was the case. Me and people around me where wiping on quest at level freaking 4 and 5! I don't think I ever got killed on a quest at that level in any MMO. Yet when I was trying to do the soldier missions and people would join me we had a really hard time of it.
Like they have preached over and over. This game will be hard, I just hope they keep it that way.
------------------------------ You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
You talk about booting me off, but i already said that i'm not gonna play wild star if there will be no server with telegraph off and pvp on.
You would die constantly without telegraphs. Even simple mobs would like rape the shit out of you. You can easily see what happens, even at low levels, if you stand in a telegraph. You get rocked!!!
If you refuse to play a challenging game with telegraphs, then I wish you luck playing the flavor the month casualized piles of shit that the other companies keep pumping out.
Originally posted by thecapitaine The last time I played Dragon's Prophet, their boss battles were like this, with no red circles or any such telegraphs. People didn't seem to have too much of a problem with them, except for some glitches and one-shotting abilities. I actually think there's not a whole lot of difference in challenge between avoiding big red circles and long, slow windups once you've had a little experience fighting the mob. It might be nice to have a toggle option for people who want to look at enemy animations instead of waiting for nasty stuff to appear on the ground.
Right. There needs to be SOME kind of prompt to let players know it's time to react. Does it really matter if it's a marker on the ground or a blatantly obvious animation? Should players need to learn every little different animation for every mob and memorize all that just to do fights? Can you expect healers to be watching healbars AND be able to keep track of stuff like that?
I don't see the telegraph stuff as a big deal. Players still have to react. Players still fail to move. Players still try to finish that one cast or whatever before moving. Etc. If the game moved your character to safety automatically, that'd be one thing. But if there's player awareness, decision making, movement, etc, does this really matter?
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo And also proves that you dont need big red dots to anticipate boss attacks and be completely easy to have a successful game.
This is like 4/5th thread I seen about this if you don't like telegraphs there is two options available
There are game mechanics that are best left to single player games and mechanics that mmo needs.
Some noobs dont understand at all.
You are not fighting only 1 mob. Outside of instances, you will also be dealing with several adds frequently in wildstar. No telegraphs will make combat a frustrating experience.
Devs can also give the mobs stronger and more interesting abilities that make the fights more intense. If not, we can go 10years back where mobs only use auto attacks.
Telegraphs enhance the combat. period.
I laugh at ppl who will not use telegraphs in mmos. I bet after 1-2 days of frustrating gaming, they will turn back on telegraphs.
After watching the video the telegraphing in this game seems excessive. Pretending like turning off the telegraphing is a real option is the same thing as saying playing this with your monitor off is a viable option. This amount of telegraphing is just red shape assault on your eyes. Actually I think you will be able to customize the color of the telegraphed shape barrage. Color me uninterested.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
I have already understood the same game play in FFXI,a game that came out long before most of these MMO's.
You are suppose to LEARN your player and the enemies through attrition,not through painted markers.You get to know an enemies habits and how it responds to your actions.You also know what to look for that might wipe you or your party in one hit.
FFXi already had tons and tons of this type Ai,don't steal hate from behind,don't use magic damage,stay out of AOE range,know the telling signals a mob might give ,pay attention at all times,know where to stand sometimes to the side or behind or on the feet of the enemy.
There is something else that FFXI showed us that games like Wildstar most likely do NOT.in FFXI there are enemies that react to magic casting,you cannot cast near them or they will aggro and attack.There will not be any red carpet signals to warn you,only your game experience can do that.There are also UNDEAD creatures that aggro to low hit points,in other words blood.This again will have no warning of a red carpet.
There is simply no excuse for red markers "hand holding" you can achieve the same level of creativity and challenge without it,games have been doing it for years.
I realize that some markers would be near impossible to figure out through game experience ,but in those cases i find the designs to be ridiculous,not even close to anything realistic.However in saying that,there are still similar ideas such as in the IFrit fight in FFXIV.Ifrit will use abilities that make you move or take high damage,one of it's phases it uses Radiant Plume,but instead of some cheap red carpet marker,it turns the ground to lava,so players can see when where to move if paying attention but it is done in a more realistic manner that matches the battle perfectly.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Long time lurker here,long time mmo player agree whole heartedly with wizardry,cant w8 for wildstar yes ive played it,also playing ffxiv arrb it has red telegraphs cba to list how many games ive played in the last 20 years that do it ,its old its moronic its not FUN,doing it from lvl1 to lvl 50 will make EVERY fight feel very similar and a bit mindless,what happened to LEARNING the fight or god forbid as mentioned in wizardrys post relevant telegraphs (burning ground ,lasers, cracked flooring,tilting, water,smoke,rumbling,eletricty strikes,ETC ETC ETC to feed our brains more than F&%$£*G red circles ,i want to love wildstar so much but plzzzzzz do away with them for the love of immersion....!!! red circles =lazy telegraphs for lazy players.....
I don't know, considering low graphics fidelity and lack of clarity in most MMO's (especially in the context of group encounters), telegraphs make a lot of sense. Half the time you can't really tell what's going on without them *ahem* GW2 *ahem*. It's an abstraction.
Generally, MMO's are heavily abstracted as it is due to various reasons (good example being addons and all the stuff that comes with them).
The example here works better for low-density single player situations in high graphics games aka Demon's Souls.
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW Currently playing: GW2, EVE Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
Originally posted by ZenMorph I'm not understanding all the angst over telegraphs. On the list of things that make or break an mmo, this is way, way at the bottom.
When it comes to MMOs. People love to nitpick over the smallest things. Let alone something which can be turned off. Granted, after watching those new PvP videos, I can't understand why you would want too.
Comments
For the onetrillionth time.
YOU CAN TURN THE TELEGRAPHS OFF
That just creates an other problem. Who the hell would want to turn off this system just to put himself at a great disadvantage? Especially when the game is online and when there's open world pvp server?
What i want, is an open world pvp with no telegraph. Those who started in a pve server with telegraph shouldnt be able to transfer their character in a pvp server with no telegraph because of the good start they would get.
These options would make me want to try the game.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
Why are MMO players so concerned with how other people play the game? If you're a good player you won't be at a disadvantage at all.
Wildstar will never be open world pvp. MMO PvP will always be pointless because of gear/levels. The fact that you can innately have an advantage over another player is what attracts turds to MMO pvp. Go fight someone on fair terms.
I've seen plenty of people miss telegraphs.
And honestly, when you've got death and decay style effects already all over the place courtesy of your fellow players, they can be easy to miss.
I remember TSW having telegraphs and still thinking that some of those boss fights were pretty challenging.
Watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG_82r0RzfI this is the one of the LOWEST LEVEL dungeons in Wildstar(fast forward to 2:40).
I hope you watched that first....
Can you imagine how hard the level cap telegraphs fights will be?.... Now I want you to make a squishy DPS guy, turn off your telegraphs (Mr. Good player) and then run these three boses with your telegraphs off. I wonder how fast your group will boot you or your tank and healer will leave and get back in their 3 mins queues, just because their silly little squishy DPS guy keeps getting DESTROYED because he has no clue where the BOOM spots are and just sits in them like a idiot.
I'm guessing after the first wipe tank /tells the healer to boot you and get another DPS or the vice versa. Or if it's cross server instance group the Tank or healer (I know you seen this one before) just sits in one spot for a min after a wipe and then DC's, logs back in gets in his/her 3 mins queue and runs with a group that has their telegraphs on!
Better yet I'm pretty sure that after having failed a few runs due to people having telegraphs off and causing their groups to wipe, the tank and the healer will demand that everyone has their telegraphs on in every group they get into. And if they see that you don't (ala your not avoiding the telegraphs you CANNOT SEE) you get the boot or they leave.
I'm sure this will not only apply to DPS types, if a healer has a tank doesn't try to avoid anything he will probably do pretty much what has been said above.. So you can pretty much insert any class in the mix.
------------------------------
You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
You talk about booting me off, but i already said that i'm not gonna play wild star if there will be no server with telegraph off and pvp on.
Now, you just sound like someone who wants to beat every dungeon, bosses, raids, what ever in one shot. You don't want a second try.
I'm not a wow player, but i heard about how many time they had to fail to complete one raid. You can even lose in a dungeon, not only in a pvp arena. Now that the addon for telegraph exist, i bet you get booted for not downloading it and this is why i will never play wow again. Addons and autohotkeys should not even exist
My question to you, why do you hate losing that much? Losing is a part of life and it allows you to learn from your mistakes before you can advance. This whole telegraph system simply removes the whole aspect of losing and learning.
As for the immersion, it completely breaks it. Red giant dots all across the room will get old very quick. EQN use a telegraph too, but not for every abilities. Spell effects over interface system that's showing you what's going on, but it shouldnt be too obvious at the same time.
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
I'm going to try to break this down for you real simple like.
EVEN WITH THE TELEGRAPHS THE GAME WAS STILL PRETTY HARD!
So um no, I don't want to beat the dungeons, quest and/or adventures (what ever the hell they are) on the first try nor do I think I could.
You haven't even played this game yet you seem to think that as long as you step out of ever telegraph all is good in the world. Yeah it helps, a lot, but Mobs still do white damage and the encounters are usual with MULTIPLE MOBS. Atleast when I got to play it earlier in the year at a show that was the case. Me and people around me where wiping on quest at level freaking 4 and 5! I don't think I ever got killed on a quest at that level in any MMO. Yet when I was trying to do the soldier missions and people would join me we had a really hard time of it.
Like they have preached over and over. This game will be hard, I just hope they keep it that way.
------------------------------
You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
You would die constantly without telegraphs. Even simple mobs would like rape the shit out of you. You can easily see what happens, even at low levels, if you stand in a telegraph. You get rocked!!!
If you refuse to play a challenging game with telegraphs, then I wish you luck playing the flavor the month casualized piles of shit that the other companies keep pumping out.
Right. There needs to be SOME kind of prompt to let players know it's time to react. Does it really matter if it's a marker on the ground or a blatantly obvious animation? Should players need to learn every little different animation for every mob and memorize all that just to do fights? Can you expect healers to be watching healbars AND be able to keep track of stuff like that?
I don't see the telegraph stuff as a big deal. Players still have to react. Players still fail to move. Players still try to finish that one cast or whatever before moving. Etc. If the game moved your character to safety automatically, that'd be one thing. But if there's player awareness, decision making, movement, etc, does this really matter?
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
This is like 4/5th thread I seen about this if you don't like telegraphs there is two options available
1 Disable them
2 Don't play the game
There are game mechanics that are best left to single player games and mechanics that mmo needs.
Some noobs dont understand at all.
You are not fighting only 1 mob. Outside of instances, you will also be dealing with several adds frequently in wildstar. No telegraphs will make combat a frustrating experience.
Devs can also give the mobs stronger and more interesting abilities that make the fights more intense. If not, we can go 10years back where mobs only use auto attacks.
Telegraphs enhance the combat. period.
I laugh at ppl who will not use telegraphs in mmos. I bet after 1-2 days of frustrating gaming, they will turn back on telegraphs.
IMO, it starts coming down to spell effects versus telegraphs.
In wow, it was hard to see what the boss was going to do unless you turned off all of the spell effects.
Would you rather play a game w/o spell effects and w/o telegraphs, or with both spell effects and telegraphs?
I hope you can scale the opaqueness of the telegraphs to make them more "hidden".
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/I have already understood the same game play in FFXI,a game that came out long before most of these MMO's.
You are suppose to LEARN your player and the enemies through attrition,not through painted markers.You get to know an enemies habits and how it responds to your actions.You also know what to look for that might wipe you or your party in one hit.
FFXi already had tons and tons of this type Ai,don't steal hate from behind,don't use magic damage,stay out of AOE range,know the telling signals a mob might give ,pay attention at all times,know where to stand sometimes to the side or behind or on the feet of the enemy.
There is something else that FFXI showed us that games like Wildstar most likely do NOT.in FFXI there are enemies that react to magic casting,you cannot cast near them or they will aggro and attack.There will not be any red carpet signals to warn you,only your game experience can do that.There are also UNDEAD creatures that aggro to low hit points,in other words blood.This again will have no warning of a red carpet.
There is simply no excuse for red markers "hand holding" you can achieve the same level of creativity and challenge without it,games have been doing it for years.
I realize that some markers would be near impossible to figure out through game experience ,but in those cases i find the designs to be ridiculous,not even close to anything realistic.However in saying that,there are still similar ideas such as in the IFrit fight in FFXIV.Ifrit will use abilities that make you move or take high damage,one of it's phases it uses Radiant Plume,but instead of some cheap red carpet marker,it turns the ground to lava,so players can see when where to move if paying attention but it is done in a more realistic manner that matches the battle perfectly.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Long time lurker here,long time mmo player agree whole heartedly with wizardry,cant w8 for wildstar yes ive played it,also playing ffxiv arrb it has red telegraphs cba to list how many games ive played in the last 20 years that do it ,its old its moronic its not FUN,doing it from lvl1 to lvl 50 will make EVERY fight feel very similar and a bit mindless,what happened to LEARNING the fight or god forbid as mentioned in wizardrys post relevant telegraphs (burning ground ,lasers, cracked flooring,tilting, water,smoke,rumbling,eletricty strikes,ETC ETC ETC to feed our brains more than F&%$£*G red circles ,i want to love wildstar so much but plzzzzzz do away with them for the love of immersion....!!! red circles =lazy telegraphs for lazy players.....
I don't know, considering low graphics fidelity and lack of clarity in most MMO's (especially in the context of group encounters), telegraphs make a lot of sense. Half the time you can't really tell what's going on without them *ahem* GW2 *ahem*. It's an abstraction.
Generally, MMO's are heavily abstracted as it is due to various reasons (good example being addons and all the stuff that comes with them).
The example here works better for low-density single player situations in high graphics games aka Demon's Souls.
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
When it comes to MMOs. People love to nitpick over the smallest things. Let alone something which can be turned off. Granted, after watching those new PvP videos, I can't understand why you would want too.