Now i was in SWG since its launch (June 26th). It's had its fair amount of bugs, balancing issues.. but all of the major issues were fixed, and decently fast at that. Maybe there was a balacing issue or 2, but given time they were fixed. For instance, commandos' flame DOT - fixed by a doctor's fire blanket. All in all, it was a great game for the past 2 years.
About...maybe 6 months to a year after launch, there was talk of "The Combat Upgrade". I think some people might remember. It stired up players for a little, but then you stopped hearing about it, and all was well. I myself have 2 main characters that i play. An Entertainer, and a combatant. I picked up 2 more accounts a little after i finished up my templates for those 2.
A few months back, they announced that the CU will be coming. There was chaos. It hit TestCenter with so much force that it devistated the entire SWG universe. People were going into the game and getting killed by an entry level creature. The balancing was horrific. A petition was started in order to save the game from complete destruction (www.swgpetition.com). At the moment, there are near 14,000 signatures. That is more than some games have in players. Maybe now something can happen right?
Wrong. Some people asked, "Why?". Well, we have our Chaos, a complete devistation to the game which we all supported through bugs, 14,000 unhappy players who contributed by signing the petition... let's ask SOE what they think about this mess, and the petition. Their answer? Probably my favorite! "We are working to make SWG a better SW experience." "The opinions of 14,000 players dont matter." Wait a sec, dont matter? A chunck of the SWG universe of THAT caliber, just doesnt matter? "With the launch of RotW, we will be gaining back the players". Hmm, I thought that a company should look to please current members, rather than try to attract more by having veteran members leave.
With our efforts invain, the battle lost, and the players running for their gaming lives..I along with 100's of other players watched at the servers slowly went down for the last time. The SWG Apocalypse. a few hours after they went down, something happened in test center. Was it a ray of hope? Nope again, appearently SOE wanted to announce that they "kinda fixed creature levels to be more balanced". Great. When the apocalyptic smoke cleared from my server, i logged back on only to hear my guild saying its goodbyes, then i got the ingame email that it was disbaned, and i watched its members slowly log off and havent seen them since.
The CU? It shot each crafter and entertainer in the leg, put them on Alderaan, then John Smedley (Pres. SOE) pulled the trigger on the Deathstar. They cant even walk 10 meters without being killed instantly by MOB's.
Player can no longer design their character template to be fun (I.E, A fighing profession & an entertainer profession) you MUST have both combat professions in order to even stand a chance in combat against the SWG environment and other players.
A standard combat skill takes about 125,000 XP. killing creatures near your level kills you. killing anything not as high as you? 1 XP point for you. But wait, SWG offered "Double XP Week" for any players left in the galaxy, and quote, "thanks players for their ongoing support of the CU". 2 XP points for you.
The CU has the game modeled EXACTLY like EQ2. If i was to change the keymap to EQ2 style, i'd be playing EQ2.
I guess i wouldnt be SO UPSET if they had handled their veteran players better, and if i just understood their motives for the CU going live in the first place. I'm sick of that answer "Making the SWG universe more SW like." Of yea, the only way they contributed to making it feel more SW like is like this:
SOE is the Galactic Empire and We, the players, are the Rebel Alliance fighing for what's right.
I have a question.... Are empty Star Wars Galaxies servers more Star Wars like to you?
The root cause I see is that the SOUL of the game has changed. A SOUL, which gave us a very OPEN world in which we had many options of how to play.
Okay so maybe you are a player that just sees SWG as a game and that is all well and good, but for many people it is much more than that. For many SWG has become a full immersion experience into a world in which they could do hundreds of different things at different times. The world was more or less OPEN to what they wanted to do.
In terms of what attracted me to this game like many others was the large range of options, which we had from the very beginning of the game.
Do you remember how complex the character creation screen is?
I mean we get to choose from different races each with their own unique physical features. Not to mention that each race has its own unique attribute modifiers. This in turn becomes more in depth when we get to choose a particular starting profession.
Yet amongst all of these initial choices when we get in game we can still alter our path, with the only exception being race. We can change our appearance. We can change our profession. We can change our clothes. We could even change our characters stat pools.
Oh yes, remember those. 12 different stat pools from which we could use or pull energy from or take damage/wounds in very complex very OPEN. If you wanted a character with lots of Health you could have it. More Action? No problem just move stats around to increase it. Need more Mind for your doc no problem.
Lots of choices to design a character how you wanted. Even when they took away stat migration individually they added the ability to image designers. Oh those poor image designers talk about losing an entire player market in one day.
And so some of you may be like so what it didnt matter with buffs. Well I hate to break the news to you but some of us didnt use buffs all that much in the first place. We attacked using strategy with a group, or solo with some stims to heal ourselves at the right moment.
Yeah but some combat professions were better than others. Well of course some professions were better than others, but we did have different requirements, different abilites, and different ways in which we could kill/attack/heal/posion creatures or players. And yes some were not laid out well or broken in some way. But still we had lots of options still very OPEN.
But armor and weapons were so overpowered. Yes some were because the people actually found out how to make them and spent the time searching for the resources to do so. And yes certain professions with certain weapons were uber and difficult to kill. But then again they did take the time and credits to create that template and master that style of play.
In no way did we have to do certain professions or master certain skills just to be able to play the game. We could craft/heal/dance/fight/explore the galaxy all with one character if we wished to. Sure it didnt make and uber character who could rule PvP or PvE for that matter, but at least it was our character based on how we wanted to play.
Now we have one bar that matters, Health, or 3 if you want to get technical. Okay so it may make combat easier point taken, but so are specials really that special anymore if they all hit the same pool? Other than damage amounts? OPEN? .Uh thats a stretch.
Is combat faster yeah I guess. But then again I find I spend more time watching the toolbar/my health pool/combat tab/things floating over my head and less time enjoying the immersion that combat was where I would notice my characters state/health/moves/combat tab/ creature states/chat messages/leaves falling/grass blowing in the wind all without me even realizing I was doing it. But then again I guess I am one of the few who like a game to immerse me into the virtual universe.
But enough about the nuances of the game old vs. new. If you want a better description I suggest checking out one of these posts because they cover the more technical details that I ever could.
So I guess I need to find a way to sum up what I am trying to say.
Basically, from my perspective the SOUL of SWG is the games OPEN feel that can immerse you in the game no matter how you play. If you want to come in suit up and beat down the opposition with the best weapon/profession in the game you could. If you wanted to search/explore/hunt with a varied profession character you could. If you wanted to craft most the time but have just enough skills to defend yourself you could. If you wanted to master as many novice professions as possible and play around with them you could.
But it seems now our choices are more limited. The OPEN feel many of us enjoyed is gone, replaced by a magical number that now rules our destiny and defines how we play the game. Some of us truly loved the game because we defined how we played the game, now some number defines how we play the game. Yes we can get used to it, but it doesnt mean we like it.
For those of you who prefer imagery,
SWG was like a huge ocean for me a simple unique fish. I had my own colors, strengths, and weaknesses. I could go where I please with some places being more dangerous than others. I could meet other fish like me or not like me. I could travel in a school or by myself. I could defend myself against some fish but not others, and over time I learned how to deal with each unique circumstance. I had fun regardless.
But then one day I got caught in a net. And now I am in a new ocean, a different ocean from the one I knew. It has water, it supports me, but it is different. I seem to be in some kind of plastic bag. Yet I see other fish, bigger fish in a tank with a little swimming diver guy. I know some of those fish, we used to school together, but now I am stuck in this plastic bag. Just a lonely crafter fish. I guess I can get used to this new ocean, but I sure do miss that big one that didnt separate me from all the different fish and I could go where I wanted when I wanted.
Tiggs, Thunderheart. Why did they get rid of the SOUL of our game?
Its going to be real hard and take a lot of work to build one to replace it. Some of us are scared please answer us tell us there is light at the end of the tunnel.
The archer who overshoots his target, misses just as much as the one who falls short.
This is the best thing that has happen to SWG. No more taking advantage to the system. It tells you something when everyone iplays a TKM and it's the only class to play if you want to be good. I have seen more individual classes than I have ever before. It is also nice not to have everyone wearing all the same armor. It feels more like star wars than ever before! I have enjoyed the game play and also enjoyed all the special effects they have added to this game. For battle situations you actually have to THINK about what you are going to do, instead of just jumping in the middle of a mob, grabbing a sandwich, then take a shower, watch some TV and then check your character. Ridiculous! Everyone is so unique and even when you have the same classes everyone plays their character differently. This was needed and Im glad that they did it! Lucas would be proud.
I am an original BETA tester for Star Wars Galaxies. Which makes me a 2 yr veteran.
I would suggest to anyone thinking of buying this game or any of its expansions "DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY". Two years of MMORPGing in this game has got me nothing. my characters have all been completely ruined. No responses are given from anyone at Sony Online (SOE).
I'll use one of my characters as an example:
I have a Jedi Padawan, it took me right at two years to open this slot. Jedis cannot be created from the start. I had other things to do also, so this grind took me a while. SOE pushes through its alpha test of their Combat Upgrade onto live servers, I went form +80,000 XP to - 154,000. Why? People have been forced into grouping. I have no problem with grouping, I have a lot of friends on my server, but if a Jedi uses any force powers around any players or NPC's, they raise their "visibility".Which means a Bounty Hunter can take a mission to kill that Jedi. Any order to gain XP a Jedi must kill, that's the only way. So you can see the dilema of grouping? Jedis are the weakest players in the SWG Universe. What does George Lucas think? Last week I could kill, basically anything I wanted. This week the lowest animals and mobs can kill me, quickly. SOE has done nothing to support its customers as stated above. MY server as have others, this week experianced mass exodus. Think I am kiddin'? Check E-bay, Jedi used to sell for $1,200.
I also have two sons that play the game, not anymore. before my 8 year old had become a good PvPer in his on right. after 10 minutes in the CU. He does not want to play anymore. He is a bigger fan of Star Wars than I ever thought I was and I grew up on it.
The game is not what I BETA tested nor played for the two years. So my last account expires in 3 weeks, I guess it's time for me to try WOW or Guild Wars, but I will never use a game that is on SOE.
I have been playing SWG off and on since launch. I am the leader of a guild, and general of an Inteligence Channel. Personally, I enjoy the CU (except the limitedness on Soloing) and I believe that SWG is even better.
Big thunmbs down from me. A damage multiplier system has no business in this game. It totally makes player crafted items pointless. Those that are enjoying the game are obviously young kids who dont craft and resent ubber players.
I got a chance to chat with Tiggs and 2 other devs at celebration 3. They kept repeating that they wanted the game to have more broad appeal. In other words, make crafting less important especially for 12 point smiths. Make owning ubber skill tapes, and anything else that 2 yr vets have been collecting worthless so that new players can compete.
In other words, allow WoW players the same experience with SWG...bleh.
And from what I read, its many thousands who are quitting. Not just 8k like someone else here posted. Reports are 1/8 to 1/4 players leaving which means 30-60k players. SOE blew it bigtime
First off I have been playing since June 26th 2003 (Launch day). I was an avid supported of the devs through JtL beta/launch and have deffended, and recommended SWG since I started.
That all changed when the CU hit live servers. It is a totally diffrent game now, one that does not feel more like Star Wars. Which was one of the goals of the CU. In fact it feels more like Ever Quest now. The new effects, and interface icons KILL any Star Wars feel the game had before the CU.
The main problem is the devs lack of communication, lieing, hideing/twisting the facts. Are parts of the CU good? Sure. The new HAM system is good, there is now a bit more balance between the professions (even tho people are already talking about uber templets again), the new weapons and armor are cool. Thoes things were all listed in the documents the devs released before the CU hit the test Center back in March. However the problems like in the new con systems, lack of combat quary, lelve system, interface changes, group restrictions, hard to gain xp, and overall simplifying of the system. These things were NOT in any docs about the CU released before it hit TC.
Combat now is slow, drawn out, and overal boaring. In order to get XP thats worth anything you need to be grouped. However with the massive amounts of people who have quit the game, it is near impossible to find a group, especially on smaller servers. Also for people like me (there are a lot) that dont like to group, or dont have the hour and a half to get one together, its VERY hard to train. For solo play style the game is ruined. Sure there are people who say you can solo level, but thats with new, uber templates.
That argument is made that people hate the CU because you have to be more tacticle. I think thats compleatly false. I was never a power gamer, and I love complicated games. But this system is just boaring and slow. I have to sit there stareing at my toolbar durring combat which sucks, and makes the game more like work then fun. I have played other MMORPGs and thats what Galaxies is now... no longer a uniqe game, it is now just like any generic MMORPG and SOE is determined to make the game more like EQ then Star Wars. Its truely sad.
Last thing... there are a lot of people quiting this game. People dont quit a game they played for 18 months for no reason. I know 25 vets that have quit, and thats the tip of the ice burg. I dont like to sya this, I wish I wasnt saying this... I love this game, but only the devs can save it. And they wont admit that the new system is hated by most... and thoes that do like it cant explain why they like it, and just say everyone else is whinning. When the more mature acting people are the ones that hate it... becuase we just want to save out game
I have never been a big poster nor am i a game-design-specialist.I have come to this side searching informations about online games as i have cancelled my swg accounts after the combatupgrade.
For me i am unable to judge the CU as i dont know what is a bug and what a new feature(there is no online-handbook available and informations are that kind :treat it as a new game)....there seem to be obviously many bugs.....
Balancing is totally out of shape and as a player you seem not to be identified by your professions and skills but are treated as a number (combatlevel xx against combatlevel xx). One poster (Bedsheet) worked it out very well that that is due to a badly integrated "level-based-system".
Before the cu it felt like total freedom adventuring in the galaxies....now i feel restricted like i am playing in a dictatorship.
...AND: i feel cheated for paying for betatesting!(there are many hotfixes in the line ....)and the way Soe treats the customers and player base----the whole case is really unbelievable for me.
As i said,i am no big poster,just an average player for many years,and this is the first time for me that i feel the urge to post my oppinion and give backup to many other players that complain .
So many new MMORPG.com users posting about the awful CU that I witnessed in person at the SWG breakfast and the LucasArts display at Star Wars Celebrations 3.
Since I was stupidly game banned for aledged forum misuse since 1/9/05 all I can say is thank the maker that Lucas Arts has better collaborations with other developers for the Star Wars franchise. SOE has some of nerve taking one of the best ideas for a MMOG and allowing it to become a flushable waste of money and time of the user/player.
I started the same day the CU went live. I could have sworn i bought a unique, skill based, fast paced, easy to learn MMORPG. what did i get? EQ2/FFXI. slow, forced grouping, typicle boring MMORPG in a star wars skin. i keep seeing people compare this game to WoW now. Well i just got finished with WoW after nearly a year and let me say its FAR from WoW. infact, from what i read about pre-cu combat and pace, that was more like WoW. WoW is solo friendly fast paced combat and leveling(sounds like what pre cu was eh?)
I've also seen the arguement that the CU is good for bringing in new players. With all the bugs, some of which are game stopping, and complete lack of information even from vets since this is a new game to them to, let me say its not newbie friendly. the starter planet is all but empty so asking questions there isnt all that helpful. i know theres a command to get a list of "HELPERS" but SWG forums search is down and again theres few people around to ask what it is.
Some examples from today. I log in and quickly level up rifle since theres an xp boost going on to get people to stay. i start doing recon mission to actually make money to buy my skills. half of them give me a mission incomplete msg for god knows what reason effectivly wasting 5-10 mins of auto run in the newbie speeder if i didnt shuttle(potentially wasting more money). ok i say, i take some killing missions. i get out to the layer for a level 3 combat mission and level 5's have spawn. i kill a few then i get 1 hit death blowed by a much higher level which spawned out of the nest. never saw the level but it was 5k dmg to a level 3. fun, no really very newbie friendly. so back to recon and delivery missions to finally get enough credits to buy lvl 3 rifle. after buying it i jumped up from lvl 3 to combat lvl 5?? 2 levels for one skill, hmm. wanting to actually level i take another killing mission and head out to the nest where level 1 mobs had spawned for a level 6 mission. 1 small problem other then there level was that they seemed to be level 5-6 mobs. i can 1 shot or 2 at max the lvl 1's outside town. these took as long as lvl 5 mobs but gave lvl 1 exp. rinse and repeat 3 or 4 times and i finally gave up. i either get uber lvl 1 mobs or a random insane lvl spawn. newbie friendly indeed.
This has to be the biggest mistake i can think of. 3 years into a games life you changed the game completely. thats a big pill to swallow for non monthly fee games like diablo and the various FPS, but a game that people have invested hundreds into. wow, just wow. i feel sorry for the people who have established themselves in a game that no longer cares. i feel bad for the devs who more then likely had this forced on them to. i cannot bring myself to believe they thought this was a good idea. to alienate a playerbase for what? to attract new players? 3 days in game, account cancelled. no thanks SOE.
I was a beta tester for SWG way back in the bygone days. Just to clarify things for folks reading this thread:
In beta, SWG sucked. It was horrible. It didn't have spaceflight, which many of us felt it needed. And combat was skewed towards the melee classes (which baffled us) Then it went live, many of us in the beta flat out didn't buy it. More people complained about it A revamp was promised. DOC Buffs were implemented, which just made the already imbalanced system even more so. A revamp was promised. JTL eventually came out Revamp was promised Things started changing JTL was a ton of fun, an excellent implementation by everyone's standards. Brought new life to the game. PVP was fixed... a good and solid change. PVP is very well done now.
Then the CU hit
There are good things about the CU and there are some that are bad. Good things: 1) Doc buffs no longer imbalance things. I'm sorry folks but they were borked. People were soloing 2-3 Krayt Dragons at a time. That's just not how it's supposed to be. So I'm glad Buffs got nerfed. 2) Grouping is back! While I do enjoy soloing from time to time I really missed grouping in this game. It was extroardinarilly wierd to go hunting and the only group you could get in was a 'solo group'. 3) Still possible to solo but you'll want to add some pieces to your template: a) An elite Combat prof.... any of them is fine... They are about the same 'power' just different styles b) A tad of healing... Novice Medic is all that takes. c) Add any other professions you want after this.
Is it a tad cookie cutter? Yeah a little, but overall it's a good mix and there's plenty of flexibility left to master other areas. Personally I love my BH so I am MBH with a tad of CM just for giggles (don't need the CM but it's fun).
4) No more waiting in Buff lines!!!! that alone makes this whole CU worth it to me.
5) Another big one for me: Jedi are human again! No more lone Jedi taking on 20-30 MASTERS at their professions solo. They're still very powerful but they are killable now. As an MBH this has redeemed my love for that aspect of my profession.
Bad things: 1) No documentation at all on how to proceed. It took me a good solid 3 days to figure out how everything works in the new system. If you are a combat prof solo is still very do-able, you just need to cut back your expectations. You aren't gonna be soloing savage Quenkers or Krayt Dragons anymore.
2) Crafters got the shaft. I'll say this right now. Everyone who has said it is 100% correct. If you do not have an elite combat prof as a crafter it's going to be VERY tough to gather resources. This is a bad design and I'm hoping the DEVS fix it fast. It's easily the most legit of the complaints out there.
3) Items that were 'top of the line' before the CU went live are now "average" afterwards. This is messed up and shouldn't have happened. If you had a super-hack on a rare weapon (450dmg DE-10 for example) it should have STAYED extremely powerful after the hack. Not dropped down to average. People invested tons of time in gathering equipment so the stuff that's still VALID after the CU should be equally 'top end' now as it was prior. It's just wrong that people invested millions of credits (Read hours of playtime) and now the gear they got is mediocre at best. (Don't get me wrong, DE10 is still the best pistol, but going from a top-end mega-slice Krayted DE-10 to one that isn't much different at all from what a crafter can crank out raw is kind of crappy).
4) Entertainers: Hmm I am not sure whether to put this in the positive collumn or the negative. They still give great buffs and now they don't have to be grouped to do so but it may impact their tips since people don't have to group with them or ask them to direct. Personally I never used entertainer buffs for general hunting before, I'd just swig some Brandy and go play. Now I love getting them because of the bonus to XP and other things they give. So I wind up tipping them more. Hard to say how this will work out in the long run.
5) Docs: Buffs got nerfed hard for these guys.... they needed to go but I think Docs roles should have been maintained a bit more. I think the buffs should be a little more powerful than they are now and I think they'll wind up getting tweaked. I do like that docs are the only folks who can heal wounds now. (Asside from self-healing TKM) But overall I Think Docs got bent over.
Now, those are my top 5 in both categories. As you can see I'm a bit mixed on the CU. I DO like the loosening up of the skill trees that was done. It's a lot more fun now that you don't have to master an entire sub-profession to get an elite. I think people will find that they can become a lot more diverse if they give the game a chance. I also think those moaning about the combat system need to really learn it. CL was always in the game before, you just didn't see it, and it was rendered irrelevent due to the power of DOC BUFFS. I agree that maybe too much was changed... but I do like that the mind/health/action damage was taken out because it was just annoying that certain classes could attack mind while others couldn't (thus the cookie cutter professions of yesteryear) and the fact that Mind was the only pool that couldn't be healed. Short of making major changes to every prof to add damage attacks to the mind pool and modifying profs to add a way to heal mind wounds I don't see how they could have done anything else. So I'll call that a wash. I don't really care how something dies as long as it dies
As to the combat system, I am a bit disturbed by the removal of different damage types (heat/fire/cold/sonic/kinetic/energy etc). As a BH one of the things I used most was my examine ability to determine strengths/weaknesses... I'm pretty dissapointed that that level of detail has been removed from the game now. As others have said, it makes things a bit EQ/WOW'ish.
Other than those items, however, I've pretty much enjoyed the CU. I like the new look to the icons too. I know the purists out there moan that the new icons are too flashy or busy but I sort of like them. I do agree that the loss of the combat queue is annoying as well.
Overall I'd rate the CU as a wash with a slight emphasis on the negative. Hopefully some of the areas that are most glaring will be fixed.
I'd like to see the combat queue come back. I think the new timer system is 'ok' but I prefer the combat queue.
I'd like to see them fix the non-combat profs so that someone who is pure support doesn't get obliteratted when they go out alone to gather resources. That's just wrong.
I'd like to see them put damage types (and the ability to see strenghts/weaknesses to those types) back in the game. (Heat/Cold etc, not mind/action/health)
Oh... and whoever said this: I agree... the effects that were added to so many 'normal' actions need to go. I do NOT like that I glow or flash circle things around me ever time I hop on my bike... it's ANNOYING.
Overall I'm neutral on the CU.. It's OK and I'm glad it made us able to have more control over our templates. And I'm glad it got rid of buff lines and other aspects but it definitely has issues that need to be adressed.
I'm glad grouping is back I'm also glad it's still possible to solo, just not the things we were used to before. Solo things right around your CL and you should be fine. I solo CL 60-67 myself.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Four changes could have been made to the original system to make players happy...
1. Lower Medical Buffs - SOE actually did this, but as a side effect, they made the doctor profession virtually useless. Wounds still don't appear too often, so there isn't much use for a Doctor.
2. Lower Armor Resists - Making armor resist at 40% at the most would help even casual weapons to do damage. The 90% resists were too powerful.
3. Give MBH's a complete makeover, so they could effectively hunt and kill Jedi. Raising their defenses, and offering an armor type that resisted Lightsabers would have been perfect.
4. Remove the ability to stack defenses. Instead of Dodge from Pistoleer and Fencer stacking together, make it so Pistol Dodge is for when you have a pistol equipped, and Fencer dodge for when you have a 1-handed weapon equipped.
Now, granted, the Combat Upgrade offered most of these solutions. People aren't complaining about that. People are complaining about the new animations, the new timers, the new interface.... People are complaining about all the OTHER stuff that the developers changed. The Devs took 1 step forward, but 2 steps back.
I don't believe the developers care, though. With Episode 3 hitting theaters soon, I think they'll just use their amazing marketing team to pull in even more players.
It's sad that they would toss their veteran players aside, though. I've personally dropped $2500 into this game, for paying my single account, and for upgrading my computer to continually counter the increasing latency of the servers.
For them to throw my opinions into the trash pile, is like spitting in my face.
I'm so disappointed about this, that I no longer purchase any sony products or services. I convince others to do the same.
"Have you ever been punched in the face for talking too much?" - XXX
We're damned no matter what we do. Whatever we decide to change half the playerbase is going to hate us. So let's make it what we want and whomever leaves, leaves.
Not saying that's the right attitude for them to take, but with all the flack they've caught over the CU and all the different (WILDLY different) suggestions on the feedback forums before, during and post-CU I suspect that's exactly what happened.
Somebody up high made the decision: "The players are giving us too many different things they want. Lets go with the most common threads"
And thus we now have what we now have. Personally I think there's a lot more good to the CU than there is bad. Honestly, interfaces can be changed with ease. Combat mechanics can't. And I think MOST of the combat mechanics were good changes. People rant and rave about the CL but... just a hint... it's ALWAYS been there. Thats why Jedi got more XP for taking down a MBH or Master Commando.
The difference now: They show it and you can "see" the difference it makes.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
We're damned no matter what we do. Whatever we decide to change half the playerbase is going to hate us. So let's make it what we want and whomever leaves, leaves.
If they did adopt that attitude, they were wrong. If all they had done was what they promised to do - rebalance the professions and clean up long standing combat bugs - half the playerbase would NOT have hated them. A few would have groused and most of those would soon get over it. The community and gaming press would have lauded SOE for year's best patch.
But instead, they changed a boatload of unrelated stuff for change's sake. They were definitely "damned" if they did that, but they didn't care.
People rant and rave about the CL but... just a hint... it's ALWAYS been there. Thats why Jedi got more XP for taking down a MBH or Master Commando.
The difference now: They show it and you can "see" the difference it makes.
The juiciest myth they're peddling with the CU is "there was always a combat level." WRONG, in the sense that it's used now. Yes, there was a DYNAMIC combat strength number that was computed when necessary for /con and for XP awards. It was based on a variety of factors, including your skill with your wielded weapon. It could and did change as your equipment changed. IT DID NOT AFFECT THE ACTUAL COURSE OF COMBAT. AND IT DID NOT DETERMINE YOUR IDENTITY IN THE GAME. It was just a number used for a couple of practical purposes. THAT'S WHY IT WAS HIDDEN.
Now they have fixed numeric levels emblazoned for all to see, with a drastic effect on combat, equipment options, and other stuff. It totally determines who you are in the game.
First of all ppl that love the CU=Downgrade: ur in the minority and u damm well know it because most ppl have already lrft SWG which isnt Star Wars anymore and never reallt was with the devs lieing with everything they have said, this was the lasr straw.
Only Ppl who like it r High end Jedi knights, and thats not even most or ppl with no real Professions that Require Crafting or grinding Combat. Most are Noobs.
I lost a Jedi because it was hacked so i tried grinding on other characters. when i found the right 1 the CU came without Notice and grinding went to hell. Most ppl can only get 1xp per kill maybe 2 solo.
Stupid SOE wants to force ppl to to group like shiny happy ppl holding hands, well i dont trust ppl i hate ppl and i was doing fine Solo as half of us were in the Community.
We dont need to solo Krayts or solo Nighsister elders but they went to far and their paying the price as i dont see hardly any1 ever around on any servers, but SOE maggots dont care and never did.
And by the to those idiots thats say SOE never knew what the Majority wanted............ Yes they did almost half of us tested that stupid CU and told them in our Suveys that it sucked, but they lied as usuall and said the CU=Downgrade was going just great when in fact it was Junk
First of all ppl that love the CU=Downgrade: ur in the minority and u damm well know it because most ppl have already lrft SWG which isnt Star Wars anymore and never reallt was with the devs lieing with everything they have said, this was the lasr straw.
Only Ppl who like it r High end Jedi knights, and thats not even most or ppl with no real Professions that Require Crafting or grinding Combat. Most are Noobs.
I lost a Jedi because it was hacked so i tried grinding on other characters. when i found the right 1 the CU came without Notice and grinding went to hell. Most ppl can only get 1xp per kill maybe 2 solo.
Stupid SOE wants to force ppl to to group like shiny happy ppl holding hands, well i dont trust ppl i hate ppl and i was doing fine Solo as half of us were in the Community.
We dont need to solo Krayts or solo Nighsister elders but they went to far and their paying the price as i dont see hardly any1 ever around on any servers, but SOE maggots dont care and never did.
And by the to those idiots thats say SOE never knew what the Majority wanted............ Yes they did almost half of us tested that stupid CU and told them in our Suveys that it sucked, but they lied as usuall and said the CU=Downgrade was going just great when in fact it was Junk
I was with SWG over 2years plus the beta and before when it was just on Posting for the Site to be the Game to come, with 5 accounts cancelled now becauseSOEr nothing but habitual liars and thugs that will do and say anything to get that extra $15.00 of urs.
I remember that when i did this CU=Downgrade it reminded me of the Matrix and look what happened to them most of us left them because the combat sucked when it hit Live and they had to Cut over half their servers. SOE should take a point from that stupidity.
To Lepidus and other Players that this may concern about CU answeres that have not been addressed.
A guy from another site Emailed LucasArts and they said that they wanted ppl to email them immediately about any CS, CSR, Dev, and Moderator abuse just because we did not agree with or Tested and and told Devs that the CU=Downgrade didnt work reported this to TC centers and to the ppl when it went Live and SOE wanted to Hush us up.
LucasArts says they are interested in hearing from all of us that have quit for these reasons and others like the all the lies and this was the last straw.
I love the CU! People are just afraid of change. They don't like it because now they're not "ub3er" anymore. Now there's more effects (yes, i think they rock the old ones), more tactics, more danger, more challenge, more soundtrack and the PvP rocks! And you can no longer be god-like with buffs and such. And now, the wilderness is dangerous for real! People need to give it a chance and they will soon realise the greatness of the CU. You know that old feeling back when you were a noob, and you went out with some friends and enjoyed yourself to death with some missions, using team-work and tactics? That feeling is back for me! Every single day I go out there. Star wars is not about going alone, doing missions solo, or grinding your ass off in the squill cave... The CU is the best thing that's ever happened to star wars galaxies! ... Since JTL
I gotta agree that the people who are against this change are spoiled.....
I like so many other SWG vets played the game from launch. Back when there were no buffs and very little in the way of useful armor. Also no mounts no vehicles and no space ships. once they added the mounts and vehicles they should have stopped right there. The game had the very best community at that point.
Soon after that they started bowing to the wishes of leet wannabes who cried about not being powerful enough. All of the sudden anyone who can afford buffs and comp armor becomes completely invincible. PVE becomes a grind with no risk and no need for groups. At that point a large majority of us walked away. It was no longer a game worth playing.
Now they have FINALLY seen the error of their ways and turned the game back into a challenge and most of all it is finally a multiplayer game again.
ALL HAIL THE DEATH OF THE SOLO GROUP!!!
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
spoiled! I played for 2 years and worked my tail off to make my shop nice. what the CU did to me after being loyal for that long is a joke! They destroyed the game. i played it becouse it was NOT a level system, and had excellent non combat roles.
The cu is a new game period. If they where going to change so much they should have made it a new game and called it what it is SWG2 .
Once again, people are focusing on the little bit of the CU that people really WERE looking forward to - balancing out some of the uber stuff, relieving the monotony of composite etc - and pretending that's why the CU is so unpopular. IT'S NOT.
So once again, repeat after me: Numeric Level System. Magical Pixie Dust. Kandy Koted Kiddie Icons. No Combat Queue. Magical Combat Multipliers. Etc etc.
Yes, we were all SPOILED, even if we played a 3223 Scout, because we had a great and cool game with logic, smarts and a Star Wars look and feel. Now that's gone - not rebalanced, but gone.
Comments
Now i was in SWG since its launch (June 26th). It's had its fair amount of bugs, balancing issues.. but all of the major issues were fixed, and decently fast at that. Maybe there was a balacing issue or 2, but given time they were fixed. For instance, commandos' flame DOT - fixed by a doctor's fire blanket. All in all, it was a great game for the past 2 years.
About...maybe 6 months to a year after launch, there was talk of "The Combat Upgrade". I think some people might remember. It stired up players for a little, but then you stopped hearing about it, and all was well. I myself have 2 main characters that i play. An Entertainer, and a combatant. I picked up 2 more accounts a little after i finished up my templates for those 2.
A few months back, they announced that the CU will be coming. There was chaos. It hit TestCenter with so much force that it devistated the entire SWG universe. People were going into the game and getting killed by an entry level creature. The balancing was horrific. A petition was started in order to save the game from complete destruction (www.swgpetition.com). At the moment, there are near 14,000 signatures. That is more than some games have in players. Maybe now something can happen right?
Wrong. Some people asked, "Why?". Well, we have our Chaos, a complete devistation to the game which we all supported through bugs, 14,000 unhappy players who contributed by signing the petition... let's ask SOE what they think about this mess, and the petition. Their answer? Probably my favorite! "We are working to make SWG a better SW experience." "The opinions of 14,000 players dont matter." Wait a sec, dont matter? A chunck of the SWG universe of THAT caliber, just doesnt matter? "With the launch of RotW, we will be gaining back the players". Hmm, I thought that a company should look to please current members, rather than try to attract more by having veteran members leave.
With our efforts invain, the battle lost, and the players running for their gaming lives..I along with 100's of other players watched at the servers slowly went down for the last time. The SWG Apocalypse. a few hours after they went down, something happened in test center. Was it a ray of hope? Nope again, appearently SOE wanted to announce that they "kinda fixed creature levels to be more balanced". Great. When the apocalyptic smoke cleared from my server, i logged back on only to hear my guild saying its goodbyes, then i got the ingame email that it was disbaned, and i watched its members slowly log off and havent seen them since.
The CU? It shot each crafter and entertainer in the leg, put them on Alderaan, then John Smedley (Pres. SOE) pulled the trigger on the Deathstar. They cant even walk 10 meters without being killed instantly by MOB's.
Player can no longer design their character template to be fun (I.E, A fighing profession & an entertainer profession) you MUST have both combat professions in order to even stand a chance in combat against the SWG environment and other players.
A standard combat skill takes about 125,000 XP. killing creatures near your level kills you. killing anything not as high as you? 1 XP point for you. But wait, SWG offered "Double XP Week" for any players left in the galaxy, and quote, "thanks players for their ongoing support of the CU". 2 XP points for you.
The CU has the game modeled EXACTLY like EQ2. If i was to change the keymap to EQ2 style, i'd be playing EQ2.
I guess i wouldnt be SO UPSET if they had handled their veteran players better, and if i just understood their motives for the CU going live in the first place. I'm sick of that answer "Making the SWG universe more SW like." Of yea, the only way they contributed to making it feel more SW like is like this:
SOE is the Galactic Empire and We, the players, are the Rebel Alliance fighing for what's right.
I have a question.... Are empty Star Wars Galaxies servers more Star Wars like to you?
The root cause I see is that the SOUL of the game has changed. A SOUL, which gave us a very OPEN world in which we had many options of how to play.
Okay so maybe you are a player that just sees SWG as a game and that is all well and good, but for many people it is much more than that. For many SWG has become a full immersion experience into a world in which they could do hundreds of different things at different times. The world was more or less OPEN to what they wanted to do.
In terms of what attracted me to this game like many others was the large range of options, which we had from the very beginning of the game.
Do you remember how complex the character creation screen is?
I mean we get to choose from different races each with their own unique physical features. Not to mention that each race has its own unique attribute modifiers. This in turn becomes more in depth when we get to choose a particular starting profession.
Yet amongst all of these initial choices when we get in game we can still alter our path, with the only exception being race. We can change our appearance. We can change our profession. We can change our clothes. We could even change our characters stat pools.
Oh yes, remember those. 12 different stat pools from which we could use or pull energy from or take damage/wounds in very complex very OPEN. If you wanted a character with lots of Health you could have it. More Action? No problem just move stats around to increase it. Need more Mind for your doc no problem.
Lots of choices to design a character how you wanted. Even when they took away stat migration individually they added the ability to image designers. Oh those poor image designers talk about losing an entire player market in one day.
And so some of you may be like so what it didnt matter with buffs. Well I hate to break the news to you but some of us didnt use buffs all that much in the first place. We attacked using strategy with a group, or solo with some stims to heal ourselves at the right moment.
Yeah but some combat professions were better than others. Well of course some professions were better than others, but we did have different requirements, different abilites, and different ways in which we could kill/attack/heal/posion creatures or players. And yes some were not laid out well or broken in some way. But still we had lots of options still very OPEN.
But armor and weapons were so overpowered. Yes some were because the people actually found out how to make them and spent the time searching for the resources to do so. And yes certain professions with certain weapons were uber and difficult to kill. But then again they did take the time and credits to create that template and master that style of play.
In no way did we have to do certain professions or master certain skills just to be able to play the game. We could craft/heal/dance/fight/explore the galaxy all with one character if we wished to. Sure it didnt make and uber character who could rule PvP or PvE for that matter, but at least it was our character based on how we wanted to play.
Now we have one bar that matters, Health, or 3 if you want to get technical. Okay so it may make combat easier point taken, but so are specials really that special anymore if they all hit the same pool? Other than damage amounts? OPEN? .Uh thats a stretch.
Is combat faster yeah I guess. But then again I find I spend more time watching the toolbar/my health pool/combat tab/things floating over my head and less time enjoying the immersion that combat was where I would notice my characters state/health/moves/combat tab/ creature states/chat messages/leaves falling/grass blowing in the wind all without me even realizing I was doing it. But then again I guess I am one of the few who like a game to immerse me into the virtual universe.
But enough about the nuances of the game old vs. new. If you want a better description I suggest checking out one of these posts because they cover the more technical details that I ever could.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=cudiscussiontemp&message.id=26461
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=cudiscussiontemp&message.id=26461
So I guess I need to find a way to sum up what I am trying to say.
Basically, from my perspective the SOUL of SWG is the games OPEN feel that can immerse you in the game no matter how you play. If you want to come in suit up and beat down the opposition with the best weapon/profession in the game you could. If you wanted to search/explore/hunt with a varied profession character you could. If you wanted to craft most the time but have just enough skills to defend yourself you could. If you wanted to master as many novice professions as possible and play around with them you could.
But it seems now our choices are more limited. The OPEN feel many of us enjoyed is gone, replaced by a magical number that now rules our destiny and defines how we play the game. Some of us truly loved the game because we defined how we played the game, now some number defines how we play the game. Yes we can get used to it, but it doesnt mean we like it.
For those of you who prefer imagery,
SWG was like a huge ocean for me a simple unique fish. I had my own colors, strengths, and weaknesses. I could go where I please with some places being more dangerous than others. I could meet other fish like me or not like me. I could travel in a school or by myself. I could defend myself against some fish but not others, and over time I learned how to deal with each unique circumstance. I had fun regardless.
But then one day I got caught in a net. And now I am in a new ocean, a different ocean from the one I knew. It has water, it supports me, but it is different. I seem to be in some kind of plastic bag. Yet I see other fish, bigger fish in a tank with a little swimming diver guy. I know some of those fish, we used to school together, but now I am stuck in this plastic bag. Just a lonely crafter fish. I guess I can get used to this new ocean, but I sure do miss that big one that didnt separate me from all the different fish and I could go where I wanted when I wanted.
Tiggs, Thunderheart. Why did they get rid of the SOUL of our game?
Its going to be real hard and take a lot of work to build one to replace it. Some of us are scared please answer us tell us there is light at the end of the tunnel.
The archer who overshoots his target, misses just as much as the one who falls short.
This is the best thing that has happen to SWG. No more taking advantage to the system. It tells you something when everyone iplays a TKM and it's the only class to play if you want to be good. I have seen more individual classes than I have ever before. It is also nice not to have everyone wearing all the same armor. It feels more like star wars than ever before! I have enjoyed the game play and also enjoyed all the special effects they have added to this game. For battle situations you actually have to THINK about what you are going to do, instead of just jumping in the middle of a mob, grabbing a sandwich, then take a shower, watch some TV and then check your character. Ridiculous! Everyone is so unique and even when you have the same classes everyone plays their character differently. This was needed and Im glad that they did it! Lucas would be proud.
I would suggest to anyone thinking of buying this game or any of its expansions "DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY". Two years of MMORPGing in this game has got me nothing. my characters have all been completely ruined. No responses are given from anyone at Sony Online (SOE).
I'll use one of my characters as an example:
I have a Jedi Padawan, it took me right at two years to open this slot. Jedis cannot be created from the start. I had other things to do also, so this grind took me a while. SOE pushes through its alpha test of their Combat Upgrade onto live servers, I went form +80,000 XP to - 154,000. Why? People have been forced into grouping. I have no problem with grouping, I have a lot of friends on my server, but if a Jedi uses any force powers around any players or NPC's, they raise their "visibility".Which means a Bounty Hunter can take a mission to kill that Jedi. Any order to gain XP a Jedi must kill, that's the only way. So you can see the dilema of grouping? Jedis are the weakest players in the SWG Universe. What does George Lucas think? Last week I could kill, basically anything I wanted. This week the lowest animals and mobs can kill me, quickly. SOE has done nothing to support its customers as stated above. MY server as have others, this week experianced mass exodus. Think I am kiddin'? Check E-bay, Jedi used to sell for $1,200.
I also have two sons that play the game, not anymore. before my 8 year old had become a good PvPer in his on right. after 10 minutes in the CU. He does not want to play anymore. He is a bigger fan of Star Wars than I ever thought I was and I grew up on it.
The game is not what I BETA tested nor played for the two years. So my last account expires in 3 weeks, I guess it's time for me to try WOW or Guild Wars, but I will never use a game that is on SOE.
I have been playing SWG off and on since launch. I am the leader of a guild, and general of an Inteligence Channel. Personally, I enjoy the CU (except the limitedness on Soloing) and I believe that SWG is even better.
Also, I was a TKM, and I still enjoy the CU
Big thunmbs down from me. A damage multiplier system has no business in this game. It totally makes player crafted items pointless. Those that are enjoying the game are obviously young kids who dont craft and resent ubber players.
I got a chance to chat with Tiggs and 2 other devs at celebration 3. They kept repeating that they wanted the game to have more broad appeal. In other words, make crafting less important especially for 12 point smiths. Make owning ubber skill tapes, and anything else that 2 yr vets have been collecting worthless so that new players can compete.
In other words, allow WoW players the same experience with SWG...bleh.
And from what I read, its many thousands who are quitting. Not just 8k like someone else here posted. Reports are 1/8 to 1/4 players leaving which means 30-60k players. SOE blew it bigtime
First off I have been playing since June 26th 2003 (Launch day). I was an avid supported of the devs through JtL beta/launch and have deffended, and recommended SWG since I started.
That all changed when the CU hit live servers. It is a totally diffrent game now, one that does not feel more like Star Wars. Which was one of the goals of the CU. In fact it feels more like Ever Quest now. The new effects, and interface icons KILL any Star Wars feel the game had before the CU.
The main problem is the devs lack of communication, lieing, hideing/twisting the facts. Are parts of the CU good? Sure. The new HAM system is good, there is now a bit more balance between the professions (even tho people are already talking about uber templets again), the new weapons and armor are cool. Thoes things were all listed in the documents the devs released before the CU hit the test Center back in March. However the problems like in the new con systems, lack of combat quary, lelve system, interface changes, group restrictions, hard to gain xp, and overall simplifying of the system. These things were NOT in any docs about the CU released before it hit TC.
Combat now is slow, drawn out, and overal boaring. In order to get XP thats worth anything you need to be grouped. However with the massive amounts of people who have quit the game, it is near impossible to find a group, especially on smaller servers. Also for people like me (there are a lot) that dont like to group, or dont have the hour and a half to get one together, its VERY hard to train. For solo play style the game is ruined. Sure there are people who say you can solo level, but thats with new, uber templates.
That argument is made that people hate the CU because you have to be more tacticle. I think thats compleatly false. I was never a power gamer, and I love complicated games. But this system is just boaring and slow. I have to sit there stareing at my toolbar durring combat which sucks, and makes the game more like work then fun. I have played other MMORPGs and thats what Galaxies is now... no longer a uniqe game, it is now just like any generic MMORPG and SOE is determined to make the game more like EQ then Star Wars. Its truely sad.
Last thing... there are a lot of people quiting this game. People dont quit a game they played for 18 months for no reason. I know 25 vets that have quit, and thats the tip of the ice burg. I dont like to sya this, I wish I wasnt saying this... I love this game, but only the devs can save it. And they wont admit that the new system is hated by most... and thoes that do like it cant explain why they like it, and just say everyone else is whinning. When the more mature acting people are the ones that hate it... becuase we just want to save out game
I have never been a big poster nor am i a game-design-specialist.I have come to this side searching informations about online games as i have cancelled my swg accounts after the combatupgrade.
For me i am unable to judge the CU as i dont know what is a bug and what a new feature(there is no online-handbook available and informations are that kind :treat it as a new game)....there seem to be obviously many bugs.....
Balancing is totally out of shape and as a player you seem not to be identified by your professions and skills but are treated as a number (combatlevel xx against combatlevel xx). One poster (Bedsheet) worked it out very well that that is due to a badly integrated "level-based-system".
Before the cu it felt like total freedom adventuring in the galaxies....now i feel restricted like i am playing in a dictatorship.
...AND: i feel cheated for paying for betatesting!(there are many hotfixes in the line ....)and the way Soe treats the customers and player base----the whole case is really unbelievable for me.
As i said,i am no big poster,just an average player for many years,and this is the first time for me that i feel the urge to post my oppinion and give backup to many other players that complain .
So many new MMORPG.com users posting about the awful CU that I witnessed in person at the SWG breakfast and the LucasArts display at Star Wars Celebrations 3.
Since I was stupidly game banned for aledged forum misuse since 1/9/05 all I can say is thank the maker that Lucas Arts has better collaborations with other developers for the Star Wars franchise. SOE has some of nerve taking one of the best ideas for a MMOG and allowing it to become a flushable waste of money and time of the user/player.
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A new players perspective. I never played pre-cu.
I started the same day the CU went live. I could have sworn i bought a unique, skill based, fast paced, easy to learn MMORPG. what did i get? EQ2/FFXI. slow, forced grouping, typicle boring MMORPG in a star wars skin. i keep seeing people compare this game to WoW now. Well i just got finished with WoW after nearly a year and let me say its FAR from WoW. infact, from what i read about pre-cu combat and pace, that was more like WoW. WoW is solo friendly fast paced combat and leveling(sounds like what pre cu was eh?)
I've also seen the arguement that the CU is good for bringing in new players. With all the bugs, some of which are game stopping, and complete lack of information even from vets since this is a new game to them to, let me say its not newbie friendly. the starter planet is all but empty so asking questions there isnt all that helpful. i know theres a command to get a list of "HELPERS" but SWG forums search is down and again theres few people around to ask what it is.
Some examples from today. I log in and quickly level up rifle since theres an xp boost going on to get people to stay. i start doing recon mission to actually make money to buy my skills. half of them give me a mission incomplete msg for god knows what reason effectivly wasting 5-10 mins of auto run in the newbie speeder if i didnt shuttle(potentially wasting more money). ok i say, i take some killing missions. i get out to the layer for a level 3 combat mission and level 5's have spawn. i kill a few then i get 1 hit death blowed by a much higher level which spawned out of the nest. never saw the level but it was 5k dmg to a level 3. fun, no really very newbie friendly. so back to recon and delivery missions to finally get enough credits to buy lvl 3 rifle. after buying it i jumped up from lvl 3 to combat lvl 5?? 2 levels for one skill, hmm. wanting to actually level i take another killing mission and head out to the nest where level 1 mobs had spawned for a level 6 mission. 1 small problem other then there level was that they seemed to be level 5-6 mobs. i can 1 shot or 2 at max the lvl 1's outside town. these took as long as lvl 5 mobs but gave lvl 1 exp. rinse and repeat 3 or 4 times and i finally gave up. i either get uber lvl 1 mobs or a random insane lvl spawn. newbie friendly indeed.
This has to be the biggest mistake i can think of. 3 years into a games life you changed the game completely. thats a big pill to swallow for non monthly fee games like diablo and the various FPS, but a game that people have invested hundreds into. wow, just wow. i feel sorry for the people who have established themselves in a game that no longer cares. i feel bad for the devs who more then likely had this forced on them to. i cannot bring myself to believe they thought this was a good idea. to alienate a playerbase for what? to attract new players? 3 days in game, account cancelled. no thanks SOE.
I was a beta tester for SWG way back in the bygone days. Just to clarify things for folks reading this thread:
In beta, SWG sucked. It was horrible.
It didn't have spaceflight, which many of us felt it needed. And combat was skewed towards the melee classes (which baffled us)
Then it went live, many of us in the beta flat out didn't buy it.
More people complained about it
A revamp was promised.
DOC Buffs were implemented, which just made the already imbalanced system even more so.
A revamp was promised.
JTL eventually came out
Revamp was promised
Things started changing
JTL was a ton of fun, an excellent implementation by everyone's standards. Brought new life to the game.
PVP was fixed... a good and solid change. PVP is very well done now.
Then the CU hit
There are good things about the CU and there are some that are bad.
Good things:
1) Doc buffs no longer imbalance things. I'm sorry folks but they were borked. People were soloing 2-3 Krayt Dragons at a time. That's just not how it's supposed to be. So I'm glad Buffs got nerfed.
2) Grouping is back! While I do enjoy soloing from time to time I really missed grouping in this game. It was extroardinarilly wierd to go hunting and the only group you could get in was a 'solo group'.
3) Still possible to solo but you'll want to add some pieces to your template:
a) An elite Combat prof.... any of them is fine... They are about the same 'power' just different styles
b) A tad of healing... Novice Medic is all that takes.
c) Add any other professions you want after this.
Is it a tad cookie cutter? Yeah a little, but overall it's a good mix and there's plenty of flexibility left to master other areas. Personally I love my BH so I am MBH with a tad of CM just for giggles (don't need the CM but it's fun).
4) No more waiting in Buff lines!!!! that alone makes this whole CU worth it to me.
5) Another big one for me: Jedi are human again! No more lone Jedi taking on 20-30 MASTERS at their professions solo. They're still very powerful but they are killable now. As an MBH this has redeemed my love for that aspect of my profession.
Bad things:
1) No documentation at all on how to proceed. It took me a good solid 3 days to figure out how everything works in the new system. If you are a combat prof solo is still very do-able, you just need to cut back your expectations. You aren't gonna be soloing savage Quenkers or Krayt Dragons anymore.
2) Crafters got the shaft. I'll say this right now. Everyone who has said it is 100% correct. If you do not have an elite combat prof as a crafter it's going to be VERY tough to gather resources. This is a bad design and I'm hoping the DEVS fix it fast. It's easily the most legit of the complaints out there.
3) Items that were 'top of the line' before the CU went live are now "average" afterwards. This is messed up and shouldn't have happened. If you had a super-hack on a rare weapon (450dmg DE-10 for example) it should have STAYED extremely powerful after the hack. Not dropped down to average. People invested tons of time in gathering equipment so the stuff that's still VALID after the CU should be equally 'top end' now as it was prior. It's just wrong that people invested millions of credits (Read hours of playtime) and now the gear they got is mediocre at best. (Don't get me wrong, DE10 is still the best pistol, but going from a top-end mega-slice Krayted DE-10 to one that isn't much different at all from what a crafter can crank out raw is kind of crappy).
4) Entertainers: Hmm I am not sure whether to put this in the positive collumn or the negative. They still give great buffs and now they don't have to be grouped to do so but it may impact their tips since people don't have to group with them or ask them to direct. Personally I never used entertainer buffs for general hunting before, I'd just swig some Brandy and go play. Now I love getting them because of the bonus to XP and other things they give. So I wind up tipping them more. Hard to say how this will work out in the long run.
5) Docs: Buffs got nerfed hard for these guys.... they needed to go but I think Docs roles should have been maintained a bit more. I think the buffs should be a little more powerful than they are now and I think they'll wind up getting tweaked. I do like that docs are the only folks who can heal wounds now. (Asside from self-healing TKM) But overall I Think Docs got bent over.
Now, those are my top 5 in both categories. As you can see I'm a bit mixed on the CU. I DO like the loosening up of the skill trees that was done. It's a lot more fun now that you don't have to master an entire sub-profession to get an elite. I think people will find that they can become a lot more diverse if they give the game a chance. I also think those moaning about the combat system need to really learn it. CL was always in the game before, you just didn't see it, and it was rendered irrelevent due to the power of DOC BUFFS. I agree that maybe too much was changed... but I do like that the mind/health/action damage was taken out because it was just annoying that certain classes could attack mind while others couldn't (thus the cookie cutter professions of yesteryear) and the fact that Mind was the only pool that couldn't be healed. Short of making major changes to every prof to add damage attacks to the mind pool and modifying profs to add a way to heal mind wounds I don't see how they could have done anything else. So I'll call that a wash. I don't really care how something dies as long as it dies
As to the combat system, I am a bit disturbed by the removal of different damage types (heat/fire/cold/sonic/kinetic/energy etc). As a BH one of the things I used most was my examine ability to determine strengths/weaknesses... I'm pretty dissapointed that that level of detail has been removed from the game now. As others have said, it makes things a bit EQ/WOW'ish.
Other than those items, however, I've pretty much enjoyed the CU. I like the new look to the icons too. I know the purists out there moan that the new icons are too flashy or busy but I sort of like them. I do agree that the loss of the combat queue is annoying as well.
Overall I'd rate the CU as a wash with a slight emphasis on the negative. Hopefully some of the areas that are most glaring will be fixed.
I'd like to see the combat queue come back. I think the new timer system is 'ok' but I prefer the combat queue.
I'd like to see them fix the non-combat profs so that someone who is pure support doesn't get obliteratted when they go out alone to gather resources. That's just wrong.
I'd like to see them put damage types (and the ability to see strenghts/weaknesses to those types) back in the game. (Heat/Cold etc, not mind/action/health)
Oh... and whoever said this:
I agree... the effects that were added to so many 'normal' actions need to go. I do NOT like that I glow or flash circle things around me ever time I hop on my bike... it's ANNOYING.
Overall I'm neutral on the CU.. It's OK and I'm glad it made us able to have more control over our templates. And I'm glad it got rid of buff lines and other aspects but it definitely has issues that need to be adressed.
I'm glad grouping is back
I'm also glad it's still possible to solo, just not the things we were used to before. Solo things right around your CL and you should be fine. I solo CL 60-67 myself.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
The Combat Upgrade changed combat far too much.
Four changes could have been made to the original system to make players happy...
1. Lower Medical Buffs - SOE actually did this, but as a side effect, they made the doctor profession virtually useless. Wounds still don't appear too often, so there isn't much use for a Doctor.
2. Lower Armor Resists - Making armor resist at 40% at the most would help even casual weapons to do damage. The 90% resists were too powerful.
3. Give MBH's a complete makeover, so they could effectively hunt and kill Jedi. Raising their defenses, and offering an armor type that resisted Lightsabers would have been perfect.
4. Remove the ability to stack defenses. Instead of Dodge from Pistoleer and Fencer stacking together, make it so Pistol Dodge is for when you have a pistol equipped, and Fencer dodge for when you have a 1-handed weapon equipped.
Now, granted, the Combat Upgrade offered most of these solutions. People aren't complaining about that. People are complaining about the new animations, the new timers, the new interface.... People are complaining about all the OTHER stuff that the developers changed. The Devs took 1 step forward, but 2 steps back.
I don't believe the developers care, though. With Episode 3 hitting theaters soon, I think they'll just use their amazing marketing team to pull in even more players.
It's sad that they would toss their veteran players aside, though. I've personally dropped $2500 into this game, for paying my single account, and for upgrading my computer to continually counter the increasing latency of the servers.
For them to throw my opinions into the trash pile, is like spitting in my face.
I'm so disappointed about this, that I no longer purchase any sony products or services. I convince others to do the same.
"Have you ever been punched in the face for talking too much?" - XXX
I think they just picked up this attitude:
We're damned no matter what we do. Whatever we decide to change half the playerbase is going to hate us. So let's make it what we want and whomever leaves, leaves.
Not saying that's the right attitude for them to take, but with all the flack they've caught over the CU and all the different (WILDLY different) suggestions on the feedback forums before, during and post-CU I suspect that's exactly what happened.
Somebody up high made the decision:
"The players are giving us too many different things they want. Lets go with the most common threads"
And thus we now have what we now have. Personally I think there's a lot more good to the CU than there is bad. Honestly, interfaces can be changed with ease. Combat mechanics can't. And I think MOST of the combat mechanics were good changes. People rant and rave about the CL but... just a hint... it's ALWAYS been there. Thats why Jedi got more XP for taking down a MBH or Master Commando.
The difference now: They show it and you can "see" the difference it makes.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Developers&message.id=63147&view=by_date_ascending&page=221
to see the oppinons of the on going debate of the cu..also words from the devs...well tiggs toon anyway
The archer who overshoots his target, misses just as much as the one who falls short.
Just to update you all..
We got back our Q&A on the topic just now and will run it tomorrow or Wednesday.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
If they did adopt that attitude, they were wrong. If all they had done was what they promised to do - rebalance the professions and clean up long standing combat bugs - half the playerbase would NOT have hated them. A few would have groused and most of those would soon get over it. The community and gaming press would have lauded SOE for year's best patch.
But instead, they changed a boatload of unrelated stuff for change's sake. They were definitely "damned" if they did that, but they didn't care.
The juiciest myth they're peddling with the CU is "there was always a combat level." WRONG, in the sense that it's used now. Yes, there was a DYNAMIC combat strength number that was computed when necessary for /con and for XP awards. It was based on a variety of factors, including your skill with your wielded weapon. It could and did change as your equipment changed. IT DID NOT AFFECT THE ACTUAL COURSE OF COMBAT. AND IT DID NOT DETERMINE YOUR IDENTITY IN THE GAME. It was just a number used for a couple of practical purposes. THAT'S WHY IT WAS HIDDEN.
Now they have fixed numeric levels emblazoned for all to see, with a drastic effect on combat, equipment options, and other stuff. It totally determines who you are in the game.
First of all ppl that love the CU=Downgrade: ur in the minority and u damm well know it because most ppl have already lrft SWG which isnt Star Wars anymore and never reallt was with the devs lieing with everything they have said, this was the lasr straw.
Only Ppl who like it r High end Jedi knights, and thats not even most or ppl with no real Professions that Require Crafting or grinding Combat. Most are Noobs.
I lost a Jedi because it was hacked so i tried grinding on other characters. when i found the right 1 the CU came without Notice and grinding went to hell. Most ppl can only get 1xp per kill maybe 2 solo.
Stupid SOE wants to force ppl to to group like shiny happy ppl holding hands, well i dont trust ppl i hate ppl and i was doing fine Solo as half of us were in the Community.
We dont need to solo Krayts or solo Nighsister elders but they went to far and their paying the price as i dont see hardly any1 ever around on any servers, but SOE maggots dont care and never did.
And by the to those idiots thats say SOE never knew what the Majority wanted............ Yes they did almost half of us tested that stupid CU and told them in our Suveys that it sucked, but they lied as usuall and said the CU=Downgrade was going just great when in fact it was Junk
First of all ppl that love the CU=Downgrade: ur in the minority and u damm well know it because most ppl have already lrft SWG which isnt Star Wars anymore and never reallt was with the devs lieing with everything they have said, this was the lasr straw.
Only Ppl who like it r High end Jedi knights, and thats not even most or ppl with no real Professions that Require Crafting or grinding Combat. Most are Noobs.
I lost a Jedi because it was hacked so i tried grinding on other characters. when i found the right 1 the CU came without Notice and grinding went to hell. Most ppl can only get 1xp per kill maybe 2 solo.
Stupid SOE wants to force ppl to to group like shiny happy ppl holding hands, well i dont trust ppl i hate ppl and i was doing fine Solo as half of us were in the Community.
We dont need to solo Krayts or solo Nighsister elders but they went to far and their paying the price as i dont see hardly any1 ever around on any servers, but SOE maggots dont care and never did.
And by the to those idiots thats say SOE never knew what the Majority wanted............ Yes they did almost half of us tested that stupid CU and told them in our Suveys that it sucked, but they lied as usuall and said the CU=Downgrade was going just great when in fact it was Junk
I was with SWG over 2years plus the beta and before when it was just on Posting for the Site to be the Game to come, with 5 accounts cancelled now becauseSOEr nothing but habitual liars and thugs that will do and say anything to get that extra $15.00 of urs.
I remember that when i did this CU=Downgrade it reminded me of the Matrix and look what happened to them most of us left them because the combat sucked when it hit Live and they had to Cut over half their servers. SOE should take a point from that stupidity.
To Lepidus and other Players that this may concern about CU answeres that have not been addressed.
A guy from another site Emailed LucasArts and they said that they wanted ppl to email them immediately about any CS, CSR, Dev, and Moderator abuse just because we did not agree with or Tested and and told Devs that the CU=Downgrade didnt work reported this to TC centers and to the ppl when it went Live and SOE wanted to Hush us up.
LucasArts says they are interested in hearing from all of us that have quit for these reasons and others like the all the lies and this was the last straw.
He said to send it to [email protected]
thanx, and he said to be consructive as possible heh.
By the way went on some servers just to check and pretty much are about all empty becausewe about all cancelled oor accounts mine hasnt ran out yet.
I love the CU! People are just afraid of change. They don't like it because now they're not "ub3er" anymore. Now there's more effects (yes, i think they rock the old ones), more tactics, more danger, more challenge, more soundtrack and the PvP rocks! And you can no longer be god-like with buffs and such. And now, the wilderness is dangerous for real! People need to give it a chance and they will soon realise the greatness of the CU. You know that old feeling back when you were a noob, and you went out with some friends and enjoyed yourself to death with some missions, using team-work and tactics? That feeling is back for me! Every single day I go out there. Star wars is not about going alone, doing missions solo, or grinding your ass off in the squill cave... The CU is the best thing that's ever happened to star wars galaxies! ... Since JTL
I gotta agree that the people who are against this change are spoiled.....
I like so many other SWG vets played the game from launch. Back when there were no buffs and very little in the way of useful armor. Also no mounts no vehicles and no space ships. once they added the mounts and vehicles they should have stopped right there. The game had the very best community at that point.
Soon after that they started bowing to the wishes of leet wannabes who cried about not being powerful enough. All of the sudden anyone who can afford buffs and comp armor becomes completely invincible. PVE becomes a grind with no risk and no need for groups. At that point a large majority of us walked away. It was no longer a game worth playing.
Now they have FINALLY seen the error of their ways and turned the game back into a challenge and most of all it is finally a multiplayer game again.
ALL HAIL THE DEATH OF THE SOLO GROUP!!!
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
The cu is a new game period. If they where going to change so much they should have made it a new game and called it what it is SWG2 .
Once again, people are focusing on the little bit of the CU that people really WERE looking forward to - balancing out some of the uber stuff, relieving the monotony of composite etc - and pretending that's why the CU is so unpopular. IT'S NOT.
So once again, repeat after me: Numeric Level System. Magical Pixie Dust. Kandy Koted Kiddie Icons. No Combat Queue. Magical Combat Multipliers. Etc etc.
Yes, we were all SPOILED, even if we played a 3223 Scout, because we had a great and cool game with logic, smarts and a Star Wars look and feel. Now that's gone - not rebalanced, but gone.