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GW2's combat system is boring, zerg everything, why do people want that?

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Comments

  • crashdxcrashdx Member Posts: 53
    Originally posted by SuperPaneki
    It's a good single player, and a mediocre mmo. The combat is tedious and repetitive. The world is childish. The content is slick. I bought it, I played it till the end as I play any single player, and left. I played a few events looking forward to some good stuff, and disappointed left. I lost 50 euros, gained a few days of playing like you do when you buy single players. They are the most expensive games, but people don't realize that I suppose. It's like free-to-play games like War of Tanks, you spend more money in them than in normal games, and the company treats you like shit, because since it is free to play, fuck you. I just was banned for 24% because I killed a guy who was insulting me and shooting me all the time, I defended myself, and was insta-banned. I just spent 20 euros in that game, but I'm sick and tired of it. I won't ever play it again. And yes, I'm really pissed off right now.

     

    Really? That's news to me, I've yet to spend more than 30 dollars in GW2. That is over lets see...over  a year. Had GW2 been a subscription game I'd have paid 120 instead of the 90 that I've spent. You can buy everything with in game gold, have you played it?

     

    Also the whole zerg thing continues to be funny because you can't even zerg with 5 people.

     

    Not sure why anyone complains about a open world boss being a zerg though. That usually what they are. Although the new ones in queens pavilion can be pretty tough, the centaur guy usually kills about half the players attempting to kill him.

  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser Member Posts: 1,873
    Originally posted by GregorMcgregor
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    Many people don't want strategy, they down't want downtime to discuss tactics, they don't want community, they want action.

    And now every other MMO coming out is a zergfest.

    EQ and EQNext couldn't be further apart. They're at the complete opposites of the MMO spectrum.

    One is a slow trinity game with community. The other is a casual zergfest with gimmicks.

    Well someone needs to tell these younglings that MMOs aren't about action, if they want that, there is always super mario and all them kids games.

    And before the "oh but that's progress, its modernization!" crowd kicks off... NO, it isn't. Us older people call it "going backwards, to appease impatient brats!" Look at where it all started... D&D (the pen version, not those other jokes), D&D set the whole idea of roleplaying games alight, then jumped to computers as tech became more commonplace.

    Now while I do find myself more in favour of a trinity style system, that's only because it's slightly more real, with heavy armoured knights trading blows (no jumping about in full plate here!), and wizards casting fireballs etc.

    I have fond memories of many a Sunday in our loft (converted attic) with 5 friends, a ton of beer and as many cigs as you could smoke (hey it was the 80s, we all smoked!), and it was heaven. Yes, not much got done at times for fecking around and laughing at stupid things, but it was FUN! Now? Now, it's like..

    "omg we can't wait 5 mins, we're wasting time! Sit? Sit for more than a min waiting? Are you mad?"

    MMO's have gone to hell, and I blame the generation, all them 12yo's I met in WoW a few years back are now screaming for action and killing MMO's. In the last few years MMO's have gone from bad to worse, and the future isn't so bright looking either...

     

    TL/DR: If you want "action" your Xbox is in the other room!

    So much generalisation and BS i don't know from where to even start. It is not just the kids (the 12 years old) but mature grown up players are also favoring these MMOS. The same players who grew up playing UO and EQ. Why? because they have more responsiblities now and time is not a luxury anymore.

    Only on MMO forums you can diss peeople for not wanting to spend a lot of time in front of PC. Because it is a bizzare world we live in.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • GregorMcgregorGregorMcgregor Member UncommonPosts: 248
    Originally posted by crashdx
    Originally posted by SuperPaneki
    It's a good single player, and a mediocre mmo. The combat is tedious and repetitive. The world is childish. The content is slick. I bought it, I played it till the end as I play any single player, and left. I played a few events looking forward to some good stuff, and disappointed left. I lost 50 euros, gained a few days of playing like you do when you buy single players. They are the most expensive games, but people don't realize that I suppose. It's like free-to-play games like War of Tanks, you spend more money in them than in normal games, and the company treats you like shit, because since it is free to play, fuck you. I just was banned for 24% because I killed a guy who was insulting me and shooting me all the time, I defended myself, and was insta-banned. I just spent 20 euros in that game, but I'm sick and tired of it. I won't ever play it again. And yes, I'm really pissed off right now.

     

    Really? That's news to me, I've yet to spend more than 30 dollars in GW2. That is over lets see...over  a year. Had GW2 been a subscription game I'd have paid 120 instead of the 90 that I've spent. You can buy everything with in game gold, have you played it?

     

    Also the whole zerg thing continues to be funny because you can't even zerg with 5 people.

     

    Not sure why anyone complains about a open world boss being a zerg though. That usually what they are. Although the new ones in queens pavilion can be pretty tough, the centaur guy usually kills about half the players attempting to kill him.

    The only flaw in your plan is: "You can buy everything with in game gold!" ...only you need to buy cashshop tokens to buy game gold because they nerfed the hell out of ANY, and all items that ever made cash on the trading market.

    But everyone with sense seen what they were up to...

    "Let's drag out making money, so the fools either (A)Play for longer, suckers! OR (B) They'll use the cash shop because they have real lives and families/jobs etc... the suckers!"

    So they added "cash grinding", that would be one of them "grinds" that they said wasn't in their MMO. The grinding monster. :(

    No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!

    image

    ...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!
  • crashdxcrashdx Member Posts: 53
    Originally posted by GregorMcgregor
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    Many people don't want strategy, they down't want downtime to discuss tactics, they don't want community, they want action.

    And now every other MMO coming out is a zergfest.

    EQ and EQNext couldn't be further apart. They're at the complete opposites of the MMO spectrum.

    One is a slow trinity game with community. The other is a casual zergfest with gimmicks.

    Well someone needs to tell these younglings that MMOs aren't about action, if they want that, there is always super mario and all them kids games.

    And before the "oh but that's progress, its modernization!" crowd kicks off... NO, it isn't. Us older people call it "going backwards, to appease impatient brats!" Look at where it all started... D&D (the pen version, not those other jokes), D&D set the whole idea of roleplaying games alight, then jumped to computers as tech became more commonplace.

    Now while I do find myself more in favour of a trinity style system, that's only because it's slightly more real, with heavy armoured knights trading blows (no jumping about in full plate here!), and wizards casting fireballs etc.

    I have fond memories of many a Sunday in our loft (converted attic) with 5 friends, a ton of beer and as many cigs as you could smoke (hey it was the 80s, we all smoked!), and it was heaven. Yes, not much got done at times for fecking around and laughing at stupid things, but it was FUN! Now? Now, it's like..

    "omg we can't wait 5 mins, we're wasting time! Sit? Sit for more than a min waiting? Are you mad?"

    MMO's have gone to hell, and I blame the generation, all them 12yo's I met in WoW a few years back are now screaming for action and killing MMO's. In the last few years MMO's have gone from bad to worse, and the future isn't so bright looking either...

     

    TL/DR: If you want "action" your Xbox is in the other room!

     

    Nah it's certainly progress.

     

    As a genre grows it also gets sub-genres. Now we have MMOs that are shooters...so what? If you want every game to be the same for the next 50 years that's on you. Just buy those games that stick to the old traditional way.

     

    These games...GW2...EQN...even say Destiny...they aren't coming out to compete with old school tradtional MMORPGs, even GW2 says "If you don't like MMOs you'll really love this game" in one of it's early trailers...these games are trying to bring in a different audience to MMOs and not necessarily steal all the WoW players away. I'm sure they'd love that but it's not really the goal here I'm sure.

  • GregorMcgregorGregorMcgregor Member UncommonPosts: 248
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by GregorMcgregor
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    Many people don't want strategy, they down't want downtime to discuss tactics, they don't want community, they want action.

    And now every other MMO coming out is a zergfest.

    EQ and EQNext couldn't be further apart. They're at the complete opposites of the MMO spectrum.

    One is a slow trinity game with community. The other is a casual zergfest with gimmicks.

    Well someone needs to tell these younglings that MMOs aren't about action, if they want that, there is always super mario and all them kids games.

    And before the "oh but that's progress, its modernization!" crowd kicks off... NO, it isn't. Us older people call it "going backwards, to appease impatient brats!" Look at where it all started... D&D (the pen version, not those other jokes), D&D set the whole idea of roleplaying games alight, then jumped to computers as tech became more commonplace.

    Now while I do find myself more in favour of a trinity style system, that's only because it's slightly more real, with heavy armoured knights trading blows (no jumping about in full plate here!), and wizards casting fireballs etc.

    I have fond memories of many a Sunday in our loft (converted attic) with 5 friends, a ton of beer and as many cigs as you could smoke (hey it was the 80s, we all smoked!), and it was heaven. Yes, not much got done at times for fecking around and laughing at stupid things, but it was FUN! Now? Now, it's like..

    "omg we can't wait 5 mins, we're wasting time! Sit? Sit for more than a min waiting? Are you mad?"

    MMO's have gone to hell, and I blame the generation, all them 12yo's I met in WoW a few years back are now screaming for action and killing MMO's. In the last few years MMO's have gone from bad to worse, and the future isn't so bright looking either...

     

    TL/DR: If you want "action" your Xbox is in the other room!

    So much generalisation and BS i don't know from where to even start. It is not just the kids (the 12 years old) but mature grown up players are also favoring these MMOS. The same players who grew up playing UO and EQ. Why? because they have more responsiblities now and time is not a luxury anymore.

    Only on MMO forums you can diss peeople for not wanting to spend a lot of time in front of PC. Because it is a bizzare world we live in.

    My turn to call "BS!"? Thought so...

    No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!

    image

    ...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!
  • crashdxcrashdx Member Posts: 53
    Originally posted by GregorMcgregor
    Originally posted by crashdx
    Originally posted by SuperPaneki
    It's a good single player, and a mediocre mmo. The combat is tedious and repetitive. The world is childish. The content is slick. I bought it, I played it till the end as I play any single player, and left. I played a few events looking forward to some good stuff, and disappointed left. I lost 50 euros, gained a few days of playing like you do when you buy single players. They are the most expensive games, but people don't realize that I suppose. It's like free-to-play games like War of Tanks, you spend more money in them than in normal games, and the company treats you like shit, because since it is free to play, fuck you. I just was banned for 24% because I killed a guy who was insulting me and shooting me all the time, I defended myself, and was insta-banned. I just spent 20 euros in that game, but I'm sick and tired of it. I won't ever play it again. And yes, I'm really pissed off right now.

     

    Really? That's news to me, I've yet to spend more than 30 dollars in GW2. That is over lets see...over  a year. Had GW2 been a subscription game I'd have paid 120 instead of the 90 that I've spent. You can buy everything with in game gold, have you played it?

     

    Also the whole zerg thing continues to be funny because you can't even zerg with 5 people.

     

    Not sure why anyone complains about a open world boss being a zerg though. That usually what they are. Although the new ones in queens pavilion can be pretty tough, the centaur guy usually kills about half the players attempting to kill him.

    The only flaw in your plan is: "You can buy everything with in game gold!" ...only you need to buy cashshop tokens to buy game gold because they nerfed the hell out of ANY, and all items that ever made cash on the trading market.

    But everyone with sense seen what they were up to...

    "Let's drag out making money, so the fools either (A)Play for longer, suckers! OR (B) They'll use the cash shop because they have real lives and families/jobs etc... the suckers!"

    So they added "cash grinding", that would be one of them "grinds" that they said wasn't in their MMO. The grinding monster. :(

    "...only you need to buy cashshop tokens to buy game gold.."

     

    What are you talking about? What the hell is a cash shop token? You trade in your gold straight up for gems, at least in the NA version of the game. So i've saved 90 bucks thanks to not having to pay a 15 dollar a month fee. That's a fact, now sure there are people I see buying tons of gems with money but that's their choice.

     

    They nerfed things to help the game balance so to get people out of farming the same thing every single day. They then added it so that you can farm champions anywhere in the world and get a good amount of gold from that. They nerfed these things so that people would do something else other than farm the easiest path of a dungeon and literally do nothing else.

     

    Also yes that is the idea. That if you play a lot you can get gold from playing...but if you work a lot then you surely have the money to buy gold...how is that a problem? It's no required grind, you can get your exotic gear and be effective in any end game stuff as soon as you hit 80...so I don't see the grind here. The only grind is optional, if you really want something you grind for it...and if they took that out people would then complain about stuff is too easy to get.

  • ZeroxinZeroxin Member UncommonPosts: 2,512
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by Loke666
    Originally posted by Meowhead

     

    Agreed, personally I prefer sneaking around and picking loners and dolyaks in WvW to zergs.

    World boss fights do get zergy since they scale, in a raid they know exactly how many players there are so they can coordinate the fight better.

    But when you go down to explorable dungeons and fractals things get interesting, there is a group dynamic in it even if many people don't see it in the beginning (those people usually wipe a lot since they stopped allowing you to rez while one group member is alive).

    GW2s problem is that they nerfed the difficulty of the open world and single player campaign after beta weekend 2 so most of the stuff is so easy that open world players can zerg stuff. That together with the act that you don't lock mobs to the group in the open world.

    Sure, GW2s mechanics can be improved a lot, the trinity combat was rather simple compared to how it is today in Meridian 59 as well but I think they are moving in the right direction here.

    If they just could move the difficulty back to the first 2 open beta weekends I would be a happy camper...

    I agree it would be better if it was harder.

    You just know that people will complain. Have you guys done the Queen's Gauntlet yet? That mode is tough as nails and extremely rewarding but what do you get? People complaining that it's too hard.

    This is not a game.

  • stevebombsquadstevebombsquad Member UncommonPosts: 883
    Obviously SOE's marketing team has determined that GW2's combat system isn't well received by the majority. That is why they are already trying to distance themselves from any comparison of what they have in EQN and what GW2's system is. 

    James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  • GregorMcgregorGregorMcgregor Member UncommonPosts: 248
    Originally posted by crashdx
    Originally posted by GregorMcgregor
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    Many people don't want strategy, they down't want downtime to discuss tactics, they don't want community, they want action.

    And now every other MMO coming out is a zergfest.

    EQ and EQNext couldn't be further apart. They're at the complete opposites of the MMO spectrum.

    One is a slow trinity game with community. The other is a casual zergfest with gimmicks.

    Well someone needs to tell these younglings that MMOs aren't about action, if they want that, there is always super Mario and all them kids games.

    And before the "oh but that's progress, its modernization!" crowd kicks off... NO, it isn't. Us older people call it "going backwards, to appease impatient brats!" Look at where it all started... D&D (the pen version, not those other jokes), D&D set the whole idea of role playing games alight, then jumped to computers as tech became more commonplace.

    Now while I do find myself more in favour of a trinity style system, that's only because it's slightly more real, with heavy armoured knights trading blows (no jumping about in full plate here!), and wizards casting fireballs etc.

    I have fond memories of many a Sunday in our loft (converted attic) with 5 friends, a ton of beer and as many cigs as you could smoke (hey it was the 80s, we all smoked!), and it was heaven. Yes, not much got done at times for fecking around and laughing at stupid things, but it was FUN! Now? Now, it's like..

    "omg we can't wait 5 mins, we're wasting time! Sit? Sit for more than a min waiting? Are you mad?"

    MMO's have gone to hell, and I blame the generation, all them 12yo's I met in WoW a few years back are now screaming for action and killing MMO's. In the last few years MMO's have gone from bad to worse, and the future isn't so bright looking either...

     

    TL/DR: If you want "action" your Xbox is in the other room!

     

    Nah it's certainly progress.

     

    As a genre grows it also gets sub-genres. Now we have MMOs that are shooters...so what? If you want every game to be the same for the next 50 years that's on you. Just buy those games that stick to the old traditional way.

     

    These games...GW2...EQN...even say Destiny...they aren't coming out to compete with old school traditional MMORPGs, even GW2 says "If you don't like MMOs you'll really love this game" in one of it's early trailers...these games are trying to bring in a different audience to MMOs and not necessarily steal all the WoW players away. I'm sure they'd love that but it's not really the goal here I'm sure.

    But WoW had the same (kinda) knock on effect as GW2 and it's ilk will... Before WoW we were called Nerds, we were the spotty start kids that liked Iron Maiden and were looked at as "weird" by others... then WoW came, and the cool kids seen it, dropped their controllers on the floor, and signed up... and it's lead to this! This monster! This demanding action, demanding jumping around like some dance game, demanding that they are always right!!! (you know what I mean FBs ;) !!!).

    Was becoming popular good? It may have gotten the genre more money, but we ended up with 1000s on useless MMOs (have you looked at the list on this site... loads of rubbish on it!).

    Change is bad. If something isn't broken, don't fix it! And before anyone says it was broke, it wasn't, it worked. It may have worked slowly (can't find a tank... roll one then!), but it was "more" traditional. :(

    No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!

    image

    ...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!
  • GregorMcgregorGregorMcgregor Member UncommonPosts: 248
    Originally posted by crashdx
    Originally posted by GregorMcgregor
    Originally posted by crashdx
    Originally posted by SuperPaneki
    It's a good single player, and a mediocre mmo. The combat is tedious and repetitive. The world is childish. The content is slick. I bought it, I played it till the end as I play any single player, and left. I played a few events looking forward to some good stuff, and disappointed left. I lost 50 euros, gained a few days of playing like you do when you buy single players. They are the most expensive games, but people don't realize that I suppose. It's like free-to-play games like War of Tanks, you spend more money in them than in normal games, and the company treats you like shit, because since it is free to play, fuck you. I just was banned for 24% because I killed a guy who was insulting me and shooting me all the time, I defended myself, and was insta-banned. I just spent 20 euros in that game, but I'm sick and tired of it. I won't ever play it again. And yes, I'm really pissed off right now.

     

    Really? That's news to me, I've yet to spend more than 30 dollars in GW2. That is over lets see...over  a year. Had GW2 been a subscription game I'd have paid 120 instead of the 90 that I've spent. You can buy everything with in game gold, have you played it?

     

    Also the whole zerg thing continues to be funny because you can't even zerg with 5 people.

     

    Not sure why anyone complains about a open world boss being a zerg though. That usually what they are. Although the new ones in queens pavilion can be pretty tough, the centaur guy usually kills about half the players attempting to kill him.

    The only flaw in your plan is: "You can buy everything with in game gold!" ...only you need to buy cashshop tokens to buy game gold because they nerfed the hell out of ANY, and all items that ever made cash on the trading market.

    But everyone with sense seen what they were up to...

    "Let's drag out making money, so the fools either (A)Play for longer, suckers! OR (B) They'll use the cash shop because they have real lives and families/jobs etc... the suckers!"

    So they added "cash grinding", that would be one of them "grinds" that they said wasn't in their MMO. The grinding monster. :(

    "...only you need to buy cashshop tokens to buy game gold.."

     

    What are you talking about? What the hell is a cash shop token? You trade in your gold straight up for gems, at least in the NA version of the game. So i've saved 90 bucks thanks to not having to pay a 15 dollar a month fee. That's a fact, now sure there are people I see buying tons of gems with money but that's their choice.

     

    They nerfed things to help the game balance so to get people out of farming the same thing every single day. They then added it so that you can farm champions anywhere in the world and get a good amount of gold from that. They nerfed these things so that people would do something else other than farm the easiest path of a dungeon and literally do nothing else.

     

    Also yes that is the idea. That if you play a lot you can get gold from playing...but if you work a lot then you surely have the money to buy gold...how is that a problem? It's no required grind, you can get your exotic gear and be effective in any end game stuff as soon as you hit 80...so I don't see the grind here. The only grind is optional, if you really want something you grind for it...and if they took that out people would then complain about stuff is too easy to get.

    Lol okay, you win! Have a nice life! No point in FB wrestling.

    No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!

    image

    ...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!
  • crashdxcrashdx Member Posts: 53
    Originally posted by stevebombsquad
    Obviously SOE's marketing team has determined that GW2's combat system isn't well received by the majority. That is why they are already trying to distance themselves from any comparison of what they have in EQN and what GW2's system is. 

     

    They also said that the trinity is a result of outdated and poor A.I.

     

     

  • tommygunzIItommygunzII Member Posts: 321
    Originally posted by GregorMcgregor
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    Many people don't want strategy, they down't want downtime to discuss tactics, they don't want community, they want action.

    And now every other MMO coming out is a zergfest.

    EQ and EQNext couldn't be further apart. They're at the complete opposites of the MMO spectrum.

    One is a slow trinity game with community. The other is a casual zergfest with gimmicks.

    Well someone needs to tell these younglings that MMOs aren't about action, if they want that, there is always super mario and all them kids games.

    And before the "oh but that's progress, its modernization!" crowd kicks off... NO, it isn't. Us older people call it "going backwards, to appease impatient brats!" Look at where it all started... D&D (the pen version, not those other jokes), D&D set the whole idea of roleplaying games alight, then jumped to computers as tech became more commonplace.

    Now while I do find myself more in favour of a trinity style system, that's only because it's slightly more real, with heavy armoured knights trading blows (no jumping about in full plate here!), and wizards casting fireballs etc.

    I have fond memories of many a Sunday in our loft (converted attic) with 5 friends, a ton of beer and as many cigs as you could smoke (hey it was the 80s, we all smoked!), and it was heaven. Yes, not much got done at times for fecking around and laughing at stupid things, but it was FUN! Now? Now, it's like..

    "omg we can't wait 5 mins, we're wasting time! Sit? Sit for more than a min waiting? Are you mad?"

    MMO's have gone to hell, and I blame the generation, all them 12yo's I met in WoW a few years back are now screaming for action and killing MMO's. In the last few years MMO's have gone from bad to worse, and the future isn't so bright looking either...

     

    TL/DR: If you want "action" your Xbox is in the other room!

    Absolutely agree. A developers dream really, a shiny shell with no meat inside that sells like crack. It would be foolish to spend years writing code for smart AI and complex battle systems when the competition isn't, and selling millions of copies.

  • crashdxcrashdx Member Posts: 53

    Originally posted by GregorMcgregor

    Originally posted by crashdx
    Originally posted by GregorMcgregor
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    Many people don't want strategy, they down't want downtime to discuss tactics, they don't want community, they want action.

    And now every other MMO coming out is a zergfest.

    EQ and EQNext couldn't be further apart. They're at the complete opposites of the MMO spectrum.

    One is a slow trinity game with community. The other is a casual zergfest with gimmicks.

    Well someone needs to tell these younglings that MMOs aren't about action, if they want that, there is always super Mario and all them kids games.

    And before the "oh but that's progress, its modernization!" crowd kicks off... NO, it isn't. Us older people call it "going backwards, to appease impatient brats!" Look at where it all started... D&D (the pen version, not those other jokes), D&D set the whole idea of role playing games alight, then jumped to computers as tech became more commonplace.

    Now while I do find myself more in favour of a trinity style system, that's only because it's slightly more real, with heavy armoured knights trading blows (no jumping about in full plate here!), and wizards casting fireballs etc.

    I have fond memories of many a Sunday in our loft (converted attic) with 5 friends, a ton of beer and as many cigs as you could smoke (hey it was the 80s, we all smoked!), and it was heaven. Yes, not much got done at times for fecking around and laughing at stupid things, but it was FUN! Now? Now, it's like..

    "omg we can't wait 5 mins, we're wasting time! Sit? Sit for more than a min waiting? Are you mad?"

    MMO's have gone to hell, and I blame the generation, all them 12yo's I met in WoW a few years back are now screaming for action and killing MMO's. In the last few years MMO's have gone from bad to worse, and the future isn't so bright looking either...

     

    TL/DR: If you want "action" your Xbox is in the other room!

     

    Nah it's certainly progress.

     

    As a genre grows it also gets sub-genres. Now we have MMOs that are shooters...so what? If you want every game to be the same for the next 50 years that's on you. Just buy those games that stick to the old traditional way.

     

    These games...GW2...EQN...even say Destiny...they aren't coming out to compete with old school traditional MMORPGs, even GW2 says "If you don't like MMOs you'll really love this game" in one of it's early trailers...these games are trying to bring in a different audience to MMOs and not necessarily steal all the WoW players away. I'm sure they'd love that but it's not really the goal here I'm sure.

    But WoW had the same (kinda) knock on effect as GW2 and it's ilk will... Before WoW we were called Nerds, we were the spotty start kids that liked Iron Maiden and were looked at as "weird" by others... then WoW came, and the cool kids seen it, dropped their controllers on the floor, and signed up... and it's lead to this! This monster! This demanding action, demanding jumping around like some dance game, demanding that they are always right!!! (you know what I mean FBs ;) !!!).

    Was becoming popular good? It may have gotten the genre more money, but we ended up with 1000s on useless MMOs (have you looked at the list on this site... loads of rubbish on it!).

    Change is bad. If something isn't broken, don't fix it! And before anyone says it was broke, it wasn't, it worked. It may have worked slowly (can't find a tank... roll one then!), but it was "more" traditional. :(

      We do see the many trinity clones go nowhere yes.  Change is bad? So I guess that whole Super Mario 64 thing was bad? Should have just kept the 2D...GTA3 was bad too...joystick, bad.

     

    No it certainly is not bad and just because something changed doesn't mean the trinity is going to go away forever. There are still 2D side scrolers, there are still 2D fighters...I don't get why the trinity guys have to try and wage some war on a game because it's different.

     

    Originally posted by GregorMcgregor

    Originally posted by crashdx
    Originally posted by GregorMcgregor
    Originally posted by crashdx
    Originally posted by SuperPaneki
    It's a good single player, and a mediocre mmo. The combat is tedious and repetitive. The world is childish. The content is slick. I bought it, I played it till the end as I play any single player, and left. I played a few events looking forward to some good stuff, and disappointed left. I lost 50 euros, gained a few days of playing like you do when you buy single players. They are the most expensive games, but people don't realize that I suppose. It's like free-to-play games like War of Tanks, you spend more money in them than in normal games, and the company treats you like shit, because since it is free to play, fuck you. I just was banned for 24% because I killed a guy who was insulting me and shooting me all the time, I defended myself, and was insta-banned. I just spent 20 euros in that game, but I'm sick and tired of it. I won't ever play it again. And yes, I'm really pissed off right now.

     

    Really? That's news to me, I've yet to spend more than 30 dollars in GW2. That is over lets see...over  a year. Had GW2 been a subscription game I'd have paid 120 instead of the 90 that I've spent. You can buy everything with in game gold, have you played it?

     

    Also the whole zerg thing continues to be funny because you can't even zerg with 5 people.

     

    Not sure why anyone complains about a open world boss being a zerg though. That usually what they are. Although the new ones in queens pavilion can be pretty tough, the centaur guy usually kills about half the players attempting to kill him.

    The only flaw in your plan is: "You can buy everything with in game gold!" ...only you need to buy cashshop tokens to buy game gold because they nerfed the hell out of ANY, and all items that ever made cash on the trading market.

    But everyone with sense seen what they were up to...

    "Let's drag out making money, so the fools either (A)Play for longer, suckers! OR (B) They'll use the cash shop because they have real lives and families/jobs etc... the suckers!"

    So they added "cash grinding", that would be one of them "grinds" that they said wasn't in their MMO. The grinding monster. :(

    "...only you need to buy cashshop tokens to buy game gold.."

     

    What are you talking about? What the hell is a cash shop token? You trade in your gold straight up for gems, at least in the NA version of the game. So i've saved 90 bucks thanks to not having to pay a 15 dollar a month fee. That's a fact, now sure there are people I see buying tons of gems with money but that's their choice.

     

    They nerfed things to help the game balance so to get people out of farming the same thing every single day. They then added it so that you can farm champions anywhere in the world and get a good amount of gold from that. They nerfed these things so that people would do something else other than farm the easiest path of a dungeon and literally do nothing else.

     

    Also yes that is the idea. That if you play a lot you can get gold from playing...but if you work a lot then you surely have the money to buy gold...how is that a problem? It's no required grind, you can get your exotic gear and be effective in any end game stuff as soon as you hit 80...so I don't see the grind here. The only grind is optional, if you really want something you grind for it...and if they took that out people would then complain about stuff is too easy to get.

    Lol okay, you win! Have a nice life! No point in FB wrestling.

    Well yeah I won that battle :P because the fact remains you don't have to spend another dime in GW2 after buying the box. Sure it's easier to buy if you have the money...but it doesn't give you advantage over other players, it just means you can get cooler (aesthetic) stuff quicker.

  • loki27loki27 Member Posts: 24
    Originally posted by BearKnight

    This just ends up with everyone being an amalgamation of everything rolled into a DPS class that just spams their 8 hotkeys until whatever it is, is dead.

    I think that a more immediate observation about the game's combat system should tell you there are 10 skills rather than 8, which makes me wonder how on Earth could you have any idea about the rest...

    Yes, world bosses are zergy, castle fights in WvW are zergy and for most of the overworld you sure can just mash your keyboard and things will die. But as you should already know from other MMOs, the combat at level 10 and at the so-called endgame tend to be drastically different.

    If everyone went into SPvP, Arah, high-level Fractals of the Mists or the Queen's Gauntlet with the mindset of "I'll just mash everything, DPS is all I need", they'd be dead. Really, really soon. There is quite a lot of depth to the combat, it's just hidden when fighting in large groups.

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  • ZadawnZadawn Member UncommonPosts: 670
    Originally posted by Meowhead

    The smaller fights are a lot more focused.

    Really big fights in ALL games, most people are just facerolling through the suitable attacks, unless it's a raid with elaborate choreography.

    Just like how in WvW, when two small squads bump into each other, it can be really tactical and teamwork can make a huge difference, and the bigger the two groups get, the less it's about any one individual's contribution. (Though one well placed person can still make or break a zerg, it's just harder to BE that person)

    WoW's world bosses,both old and new, would like to have a word with you.


  • DoogiehowserDoogiehowser Member Posts: 1,873
    Originally posted by GregorMcgregor
    Originally posted by Doogiehowser
    Originally posted by GregorMcgregor
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    Many people don't want strategy, they down't want downtime to discuss tactics, they don't want community, they want action.

    And now every other MMO coming out is a zergfest.

    EQ and EQNext couldn't be further apart. They're at the complete opposites of the MMO spectrum.

    One is a slow trinity game with community. The other is a casual zergfest with gimmicks.

    Well someone needs to tell these younglings that MMOs aren't about action, if they want that, there is always super mario and all them kids games.

    And before the "oh but that's progress, its modernization!" crowd kicks off... NO, it isn't. Us older people call it "going backwards, to appease impatient brats!" Look at where it all started... D&D (the pen version, not those other jokes), D&D set the whole idea of roleplaying games alight, then jumped to computers as tech became more commonplace.

    Now while I do find myself more in favour of a trinity style system, that's only because it's slightly more real, with heavy armoured knights trading blows (no jumping about in full plate here!), and wizards casting fireballs etc.

    I have fond memories of many a Sunday in our loft (converted attic) with 5 friends, a ton of beer and as many cigs as you could smoke (hey it was the 80s, we all smoked!), and it was heaven. Yes, not much got done at times for fecking around and laughing at stupid things, but it was FUN! Now? Now, it's like..

    "omg we can't wait 5 mins, we're wasting time! Sit? Sit for more than a min waiting? Are you mad?"

    MMO's have gone to hell, and I blame the generation, all them 12yo's I met in WoW a few years back are now screaming for action and killing MMO's. In the last few years MMO's have gone from bad to worse, and the future isn't so bright looking either...

     

    TL/DR: If you want "action" your Xbox is in the other room!

    So much generalisation and BS i don't know from where to even start. It is not just the kids (the 12 years old) but mature grown up players are also favoring these MMOS. The same players who grew up playing UO and EQ. Why? because they have more responsiblities now and time is not a luxury anymore.

    Only on MMO forums you can diss peeople for not wanting to spend a lot of time in front of PC. Because it is a bizzare world we live in.

    My turn to call "BS!"? Thought so...

     I guess when you are not generalising and posting back handed insults you are incapable of making an argument.

    "The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
    -Jesse Schell

    "Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
    -Luke McKinney

    image

  • ReallyNow10ReallyNow10 Member UncommonPosts: 2,225
    I tend to agree with OP.  However, I did like GW2's focus on one row of action keys (first four combat, rest utility).  I'll take that any day over four bars of arbitrarily arranged duplicative action keys.
  • KenaoshiKenaoshi Member UncommonPosts: 1,022
    Originally posted by Zadawn
    Originally posted by Meowhead

    The smaller fights are a lot more focused.

    Really big fights in ALL games, most people are just facerolling through the suitable attacks, unless it's a raid with elaborate choreography.

    Just like how in WvW, when two small squads bump into each other, it can be really tactical and teamwork can make a huge difference, and the bigger the two groups get, the less it's about any one individual's contribution. (Though one well placed person can still make or break a zerg, it's just harder to BE that person)

    WoW's world bosses,both old and new, would like to have a word with you.

    They are, so much i could bring 4 characters to help on the zerg(Warr, paladin, Shaman, Priest).

    Adding to what Meowhead already said... go do COE/Arah/Fractals(30+) THAT'S where the challenge is, the rest is to train the player to group content.

    now: GW2 (11 80s).
    Dark Souls 2.
    future: Mount&Blade 2 BannerLord.
    "Bro, do your even fractal?"
    Recommends: Guild Wars 2, Dark Souls, Mount&Blade: Warband, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning.

  • nationalcitynationalcity Member UncommonPosts: 501
    Originally posted by Kenaoshi
    Originally posted by Zadawn
    Originally posted by Meowhead

    The smaller fights are a lot more focused.

    Really big fights in ALL games, most people are just facerolling through the suitable attacks, unless it's a raid with elaborate choreography.

    Just like how in WvW, when two small squads bump into each other, it can be really tactical and teamwork can make a huge difference, and the bigger the two groups get, the less it's about any one individual's contribution. (Though one well placed person can still make or break a zerg, it's just harder to BE that person)

    WoW's world bosses,both old and new, would like to have a word with you.

    They are, so much i could bring 4 characters to help on the zerg(Warr, paladin, Shaman, Priest).

    Adding to what Meowhead already said... go do COE/Arah/Fractals(30+) THAT'S where the challenge is, the rest is to train the player to group content.

    I'm not sure how any of that is considered to be a challenge though it's still the same ping pong the mob around and try and rez the person getting beat on basically before he/she dies....

     

    I've done them all and I don't see any difference it's all the same strategy basically zerg and dps.......... Stay outta the bad stuff....... Dodge..Dodge..Dodge...

     

    There is still little to no order it's basically just dps down the mob quick as can be.........

     

  • MothanosMothanos Member UncommonPosts: 1,910

    I hate wow for what is has become, but saying wow is easy ? realy ?
    Maybe you did low level contend ?
    You might wanne try those heroics sometimes, and i mean heroic raids.
    ye taught so, most never did...

    GW2 is the most basic mmo i ever played, no tactics involved in world bosses or events.
    Just zerg and once low on health you dodge use heal or run to the back untill your heal comes of cooldown rinse and repeat.
    WvW no diffrent
    PvE one big zerg fest
    Dungeons can be hard unless you have a gaurdian warrior team and you can faceroll trough most shit.

    My biggest fear came trough....it seems mmo designers are willing to copy a similar playstyle from GW2.
    It is the most boring thing i ever played, it was fun for awhile but after 1 hour i cant take it anymore with a few buttons and a few dodges.

    To each his own flavor offcourse :)
    No disrespect for anyone who love the GW2 playstyle, but my guild left within 2 months of release :(

    And now we see ripoff mmo number 2 EQN comming with a similar system as GW2....
    I hope not all studio's are going to copy these action 8 skill zerg festivals :(

  • ZorgoZorgo Member UncommonPosts: 2,251
    Originally posted by BearKnight

    Compared to EQ1, EQ2, WoW, DAOC, GW1, etc....GW2's combat system is of the most boring.

     

    Tanks/Healers/Control don't actually exist, so everyone ends up being DPS with healing/control/armor side-speccing abilities. This just ends up with everyone being an amalgamation of everything rolled into a DPS class that just spams their 8 hotkeys until whatever it is, is dead.

     

    "World Bosses" in GW2 are a joke, they stand still while flashy "Aimpoints" show you where to attack while the boss throws out scripted event attacks every X amount of HP or after X amount of time has passed, rinse, repease. Every World Boss encounter I fought in was the most boring thing ever. Shiny effects everywhere with 50+ people just spamming all their abilities without a care in the world about adds. Someone goes down, a random stranger comes up and "Rezes" you during combat, continue with hotkey spam. Far too easy, no soul, no thought behind it, just spam spam spam click click click, next target.

     

    Is this REALLY where the industry is going? Wildstar, and now EQ:N? 

     

    It seems like we're going backwards, devolving into nothing more than a browser-based action RPG with pretty lights.

     

     

    Must be just me :(

    So you've played EQN and Wildstar and know they work exactly like GW2? 

    Or are you just guessing with a pinch of doom and gloom?

     

  • VolkonVolkon Member UncommonPosts: 3,748
    Originally posted by BearKnight

    Compared to EQ1, EQ2, WoW, DAOC, GW1, etc....GW2's combat system is of the most boring.

     

    Tanks/Healers/Control don't actually exist, so everyone ends up being DPS with healing/control/armor side-speccing abilities. This just ends up with everyone being an amalgamation of everything rolled into a DPS class that just spams their 8 hotkeys until whatever it is, is dead.

     

    Must be just me :(

     

    Oh, OK, I get it. You never played GW2 and fear losing the trinity.

     

    Eight hotkeys. Sheesh. At least take the time to learn about the games you're going to make up things about.

    Oderint, dum metuant.

  • RydesonRydeson Member UncommonPosts: 3,852

         Personally GW2 does a lot right, but they also missed the boat on a number of things as well..  

    • I love the idea of soft grouping.. Too many times you want 6 or 7 in your group and there isn't enough room for them, or the group leader is afk and not able to send out invites..  Hard grouping can be a pain to deal with..  If it was up to me, I would increase hard grouping to maybe 10, and raid size of 50, mainly for chat purposes..
    • I love that GW2 uses scaled encounters, BUT I think it's generally too easy and needs tweaking..  Prime example is when I'm farming Kassex Hills starting with the bridge attack.. All 3 stages, sometimes 4 are just zerg rushes.. There is next to no strategy from anyone..
         But why is that?  Because the classes are watered down.. CC only last seconds, as well as other skills and roles.. It would be nice if more elite mobs spawned forcing the mass zerg group to find and locate those mobs and CC them with a skill that last 30 seconds or so.. I have NEVER see one open world encounter that requires you to do more then just DPS.. The only time things do get a little tight is when maybe there are only 3 in the public event or 4.. Then the champions are a bit of a fight, but once you have 10 or more.. It's a cake walk.. 
     
         The mechanics isn't the problem, the problem is the conductor on the ride that doesn't know how to use the controls..
  • VolkonVolkon Member UncommonPosts: 3,748
    Originally posted by SuperPaneki
    It's a good single player, and a mediocre mmo. The combat is tedious and repetitive. The world is childish. The content is slick. I bought it, I played it till the end...

    The end? What end? The end of the personal story maybe? That's the only "end" there is... the rest of the game has no "end". Living Story is ongoing with added content every two weeks, WvW is an ongoing thing, dungeons and fractals don't "end"... played to the end? I don't even know what that means.

    Oderint, dum metuant.

  • RattenmannRattenmann Member UncommonPosts: 613

    Let's just pray EQN finds a way to make the combat fun without a trinity.

    GW2 combat is horrible and has been the reason to quit for me as well. Not only because the combat itself is boring, the limited skills, but because in the few months i played not a single group was fun. Bosses without any needed coordination,... just a bunch of strangers "soloing" next to me to beat a mob with horribly boring scrips.

    Don't get me wrong, only a very few games offer interesting mob scripts, but alot of games offer more social interaction and fun.

    MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.

    Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?

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