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"The holy trinity came about because of primitive MMO AI. Vastly improved AI means a new dynamic is

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  • ethionethion Member UncommonPosts: 2,888
    Originally posted by Abrraham
    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    The thing that is primitive is action combat.

    It allows for no pulling, it has inferior CC, inferior tanking, inferior healing. The whole "action combat" is flawed from the get go. It also results in a lack of community and lack of interdependence.

    And unless you have a brilliant solution that doesn't result in a zergfest, please for love of God stick to Holy Trinity which has stood the test of time.

     

    So far, you've shown a combat video of a warrior zerging, more primitive gameplay and AI than I have ever seen in any MMO on the market.

     

    On the one hand you claim you don't want to see guilds or groups fall apart because they lose an essential element in the trinity. That is the point....the interdepence is what makes trinity combat so strong. The depence on groups, on tanks, on healers, on CC, on pullers is the point of the trinity systems. They create the challenging content, they create the dependency, they create the community.

     

    Action MMO have never managed to surpass Street Fighter on crack gameplay. So much for that "advanced AI"

     

    Play Tera in endgame (hardmodes). It's the only Action MMO which has a tactical approach and advanced AI:

    I'm playing Tera and I'm hoping that's true.  Tera does have the trinity through so even through it is action oriented it follows the old style game play as well.  Tanks tank, healers heal, and dps dps.  No real crowd control, bufs, debufs etc that are significant.  It has the basics so far but seems rather basic.

    Nice graphics and the animations are nice however :) Gameplay having leveled up to lvl 52 is so far kinda bland.  Quests are really dull for the most part being go kill x of this or click y.  Mostly they are kill quests.  Some talk to various people.  An occasional follow and defend someone.  But thats about it.  

    I've done a few instances and game play is border line.  I'm holding my final opinion till I'm doing 60 dungeons.  I like to play and do group instances.  I was playing swtor and really enjoyed it.  But after maxing several characters was looking for a new environment.

    ---
    Ethion

  • ethionethion Member UncommonPosts: 2,888
    Originally posted by cura

    "The holy trinity came about because of primitive MMO AI"

    I always said that. Trinity was the worst excuse for tactics i saw in a game.

    In some games it is done poorly.  Your tank taunts and thats it everything is on the tank and you just dps down.  However not all games are that unbalanced.  The original EQ had a much more raged balance.  Over heal and the healer ended up with agro and died.  DPS spikes damage then they got agro.  Tanks had to pull and position mobs and then had to stay on hate generating abilities.  However it wasn't a sure thing.

    I remember healers telling my rogue you get agro you're gonna die cause it isn't worth healing you and getting agro.

    So agro tables and models to build AI based on agro wasn't a bad thing and you are still going to have it in the game.  Mobs will have agro tables and will decide who to attack based on various factors.  So what's being discussed here is really one major change.  Eliminating the tool that Tanks can use to generate hate.

    So normally you balance classes based on things like damage, defense, healing, special abilities.  The mix for each character class balances the desirability of the class.  So I'd question how you can even have a defensive warrior type class without a hate generating mechanic?  A defensive warrior would do less DPS than say a rogue, ranger, wizard.  I mean if I could make a class that was strong defense and had great dps it would be hard to ever see anyone make a class that wasn't defensive?  

    So unless you are going to eliminate the tank completely and reimaging the class to be someone like an AE damage specialist than you won't have a tank in the game.  This starts to bleed the class system and diversity away and leave us with a mindless action game where classes only differ in style not in effect.

    Now maybe tanks will be tanks and they won't have a taunt.  Maybe they got a stun and maybe a push ability.  Something that ultimately has the same effect as a taunt.  IE the tank is a major pain in the ass and killing him his highly desirable because he makes it real hard to kill anyone else :)  Same anology that makes killing healers real high on the list :).  Give the tank knock backs with a stun unless you are facing him or something.  ie if you are not focused on the tank he is gonna wack you in the head and you are gonna fall down dazed.  Maybe he can drag you away from your target.  So as long as the tank is around you are gonna be hard pressed to do much damage to say that tasty wizard or that aweful healer unless you get close or maybe the tank is only focused on one mob.  However a good tank will be aware and be a pain to all the mobs :).  Or maybe the tank is a pain for one and can't be very effective with too many leaving room for a good CC or Enchanter type class. 

    ---
    Ethion

  • AlleinAllein Member RarePosts: 2,101
    Originally posted by ethion
    Originally posted by cura

    "The holy trinity came about because of primitive MMO AI"

    I always said that. Trinity was the worst excuse for tactics i saw in a game.

    Now maybe tanks will be tanks and they won't have a taunt.  Maybe they got a stun and maybe a push ability.  Something that ultimately has the same effect as a taunt.  IE the tank is a major pain in the ass and killing him his highly desirable because he makes it real hard to kill anyone else :)  

    Not sure why so many are unable to see this.

    Instead of spamming taunt or threat building abilities, tanks will actually have to tank... not a hard concept.

    In the reveal video, the Warrior had multiple forms of damage + CC. Shield bash literally knocked a mob down a flight of stairs.

    Why anyone would find it more exciting to stand in one spot spamming taunt instead of knocking the snuff out of a mob all over the map, is beyond me.

    No offense to those that like "trinity" style, but it is so boring, especially for the majority of the group that doesn't get to do it. 40 player raids with 1 person tanking is not exciting, I'm sorry.

    Personally, I find the EQN action combat shown so far to offer much more of a challenge then staring at threat meters and health bars the many mmos boil down to.

    Traditional roles will be needed, they will just be more exciting and challenging.

  • DihoruDihoru Member Posts: 2,731

    Trinity only is dead, choice is the future.

    @Waterlily and the hardcore trinity users: Choice would mean you could use trinity within the game but that it would not be the only way to progress forward through encounters (zergs, mounted archer-type tactics, pet slave armies, etc being alternatives no less valid).

    image
  • jesusjuice69jesusjuice69 Member Posts: 276
    Originally posted by Aceshighhhh

    Brian Green of Storybricks tweeted this today:

    "The holy trinity came about because of primitive MMO AI. Vastly improved AI means a new dynamic is needed. Wait before you despair." 

     

    Before everyone touts GW2 references or cries about the end of the world, consider that the system SOE is building for EQN requires the removal of the holy trinity. Guild Wars 2 didn't have near the AI fidelity that EQN will have. Let's wait until we can actually see the system in context before making huge assumptions.

     

    This is based on what exactly?  Hype?  Because we clearly have no evidence of that.   The trinity imo is absolutely critical to a successive MMORPG.  I cannot grasp any means for a non trinity combat system could be anything more than a zerg.  Maybe they can be the ones to finally pull it off, but I am not holding my breadth.  I don't see how it could be done!

     

    TESO also said they were going to downplay the trinity, and we saw how that worked out in the gameplay footage at Quakecon.  Everyone just sort of did whatever, and they progressed through the dungeon without any coordination or care. 

  • DihoruDihoru Member Posts: 2,731
    Originally posted by jesusjuice69
    Originally posted by Aceshighhhh

    Brian Green of Storybricks tweeted this today:

    "The holy trinity came about because of primitive MMO AI. Vastly improved AI means a new dynamic is needed. Wait before you despair." 

     

    Before everyone touts GW2 references or cries about the end of the world, consider that the system SOE is building for EQN requires the removal of the holy trinity. Guild Wars 2 didn't have near the AI fidelity that EQN will have. Let's wait until we can actually see the system in context before making huge assumptions.

     

    This is based on what exactly?  Hype?  Because we clearly have no evidence of that.   The trinity imo is absolutely critical to a successive MMORPG.  I cannot grasp any means for a non trinity combat system could be anything more than a zerg.  Maybe they can be the ones to finally pull it off, but I am not holding my breadth.  I don't see how it could be done!

     

    TESO also said they were going to downplay the trinity, and we saw how that worked out in the gameplay footage at Quakecon.  Everyone just sort of did whatever, and they progressed through the dungeon without any coordination or care. 

    Not seeing how it can be done does not mean it cannot be done.

    image
  • jesusjuice69jesusjuice69 Member Posts: 276
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by jesusjuice69
    Originally posted by Aceshighhhh

    Brian Green of Storybricks tweeted this today:

    "The holy trinity came about because of primitive MMO AI. Vastly improved AI means a new dynamic is needed. Wait before you despair." 

     

    Before everyone touts GW2 references or cries about the end of the world, consider that the system SOE is building for EQN requires the removal of the holy trinity. Guild Wars 2 didn't have near the AI fidelity that EQN will have. Let's wait until we can actually see the system in context before making huge assumptions.

     

    This is based on what exactly?  Hype?  Because we clearly have no evidence of that.   The trinity imo is absolutely critical to a successive MMORPG.  I cannot grasp any means for a non trinity combat system could be anything more than a zerg.  Maybe they can be the ones to finally pull it off, but I am not holding my breadth.  I don't see how it could be done!

     

    TESO also said they were going to downplay the trinity, and we saw how that worked out in the gameplay footage at Quakecon.  Everyone just sort of did whatever, and they progressed through the dungeon without any coordination or care. 

    Not seeing how it can be done does not mean it cannot be done.

    True.  Lots of people have thought up solutions that I would likely have never come up with.  Emergent AI for example.  I didn't actually put any thought into that, as I didn't consider it a problem, but that is a great idea none the less.

    Fact remains though it has been tried numerous times, even recently, and it has always failed to live up to the hype.  I see no reason to believe this time to be different.  its not like they are using vastly superior technology or something. 

    In other words, I will believe it when I see it.  So, don't go killing off the holy trinity just yet, or we very well might not have anything to play!

  • irpugbossirpugboss Member UncommonPosts: 427
    Originally posted by jesusjuice69
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by jesusjuice69
    Originally posted by Aceshighhhh

    Brian Green of Storybricks tweeted this today:

    "The holy trinity came about because of primitive MMO AI. Vastly improved AI means a new dynamic is needed. Wait before you despair." 

     

    Before everyone touts GW2 references or cries about the end of the world, consider that the system SOE is building for EQN requires the removal of the holy trinity. Guild Wars 2 didn't have near the AI fidelity that EQN will have. Let's wait until we can actually see the system in context before making huge assumptions.

     

    This is based on what exactly?  Hype?  Because we clearly have no evidence of that.   The trinity imo is absolutely critical to a successive MMORPG.  I cannot grasp any means for a non trinity combat system could be anything more than a zerg.  Maybe they can be the ones to finally pull it off, but I am not holding my breadth.  I don't see how it could be done!

     

    TESO also said they were going to downplay the trinity, and we saw how that worked out in the gameplay footage at Quakecon.  Everyone just sort of did whatever, and they progressed through the dungeon without any coordination or care. 

    Not seeing how it can be done does not mean it cannot be done.

    True.  Lots of people have thought up solutions that I would likely have never come up with.  Emergent AI for example.  I didn't actually put any thought into that, as I didn't consider it a problem, but that is a great idea none the less.

    Fact remains though it has been tried numerous times, even recently, and it has always failed to live up to the hype.  I see no reason to believe this time to be different.  its not like they are using vastly superior technology or something. 

    In other words, I will believe it when I see it.  So, don't go killing off the holy trinity just yet, or we very well might not have anything to play!

    Just to mention, they are actually using a new (not sure if superior yet) technology called storybricks that should effect the AI in a significant way. IF I understand storybricks correctly, AI should be more proactive with its strategy in EQN and less reactive, it should also have fewer scripted/timed attacks.

    Then again we have to see it in action to say if Storybricks is a new revolutionary mmo AI tool, or if its just more of the same AI that is just more simple to setup with its modular logic for basic NPC interaction. I definitely understand the cause for saying you need to "see it to believe it"...I do as well, but I am cautiously optimistic from all I have read about StoryBricks prior to EQN.

    Disclaimer: I am no techpriest, only an enthusiast for all the mmo tech I can read about.

    image
  • PAL-18PAL-18 Member UncommonPosts: 844
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Originally posted by Sovrath
     

    Do you see any evidence in the combat videos we have seen so far that show this out of the box AI thinking?  If they have a proof of concept video (assuming they are pros) they should prove it to us by showing releasing the video.  If not, it could just be pie in the sky.

    He is making a statement that action combat is limited "primitive. I addressed that.

    It doesn't have to be that way. He says it doesn't allow for pulling which is ridiculous (and I don't believe in pulling anyway as per another posters earlier statement) as all one has to do is aim and pull. CC can be done any number of ways, cone around the player, cone around the player but allies block its effect so that you have to position yourself correctly, an aim and a successful hit, maybe a stat check to see if it works.

    Inferior tanking? well once again I loved tanking in Tera where i would position my body between myself and the healer and slam with my shield, stun him and allow the healer to move to a better spot. In addition I really loved my chain that I could thow out and pull trash mobs to me or literally stop the boss if the effect worked. It was very "in the moment". I also had to always attack to build up my power otherwise just standing there and blocking would not only drain power but I'd lose the mob/boss's attention because it would go to someone else. But maybe a tank has more to do than just being weak but able to take hits? Maybe a tank does decent damage as he should but can grab mobs, throw them, be a barrier, have a power that is a yell that throws mobs back, maybe stunning them.

    For healing? Same as CC, cone, possible position requirement, an aim, maybe even an actual touch, why not? Maybe a mechanic where the healer has to constantly be fighting and blocking. As long as the mob doesn't land a hit the healer emits an aura of protection or healing or "you name your poison" but as soon as the healer is touched the concentration breaks and he/she has to build it up again. maybe the healer has an ability where he can link to a mob, maybe forcing that mob to beat on him and he sacrifces his health but passes the loss as healing to a player he has linked to. How about a holy healer who must inscribe a holy symbol in various areas as the fighting continues and then once finishing the last one a huge heal goes off in the area the symbols cover?

    It can be anything you want.  Maybe a Bard that has a musical mini-game, one that is easy enough for non-musicians to master, that continually allows for a buff or a steady heal over time but that Bard can't be hit or it breaks his concentration, loses the buff/healing. Or the buff/healing is better or worse depending how how well he does in the mini-game. Tabbing to an enemy and hitting a button on a hotbar is not more "bettah" than aiming a skill, emitting a cone (or aiming a cone) or area of effect or having to touch another player. Add your layers as you see fit.

    Just because some companies haven't used it to its potential doesn't mean that depth can't be added.

     

     

    MMORPG action combat without hitboxes is pretty primitive in my eyes ,its year 2013 allready ,hey :)

    Blocking is not the only option just aim monster in the legs and he wont move anywhere without legs,cut his wings etc.

    So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
    **On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by PAL-18

    MMORPG action combat without hitboxes is pretty primitive in my eyes ,its year 2013 allready ,hey :)

    I know, right? In AC we had high, medium, and low attacks which opened the door to so many more possibilities but that, like so many other combat features, simply fell to the wayside.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
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  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by PAL-18

    MMORPG action combat without hitboxes is pretty primitive in my eyes ,its year 2013 allready ,hey :)

    I know, right? In AC we had high, medium, and low attacks which opened the door to so many more possibilities but that, like so many other combat features, simply fell to the wayside.

    Guild Wars hat locational hit and damage and was sort of an action-tab hybrid like its successor.  You could put runes on each piece of armour just for that purpose.

    I really like action-oriented combat.  I'm sure it will keep evolving just like everything else.

    I'm also not a huge fan of the trinity. Or I should really say not a huge fan of how tank, taunt, and aggro mechanics work in traditional trinity combat.

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  • drbaltazardrbaltazar Member UncommonPosts: 7,856
    people can barely keep up with actual content in simple game and you want smarter ai?i don't mind smarter ai but put same health as player!
  • sirphobossirphobos Member UncommonPosts: 620

    My problem is that EQ1 combat was strategic.  Everyone had an important role to play and had to play that role well to be successful:

    The puller tried to keep a manageable amount of mobs in the camp

    The CC person locked down extra targets and watched for CC breaks and reapplied CC

    The tank identified priority targets and called for assists from the DPS (when was the last time someone used an assist button in an MMORPG?)

    The DPS assisted the tank and avoided getting aggro or breaking CC

    The healer kept everyone alive

    The debuffers debuffed mobs to help out the healer

    So called "action combat" games that I have seen throw all strategy out the window and turn everything into a zerg that does not require working together or any type of communication whatsoever.  Can SoE come up with a system that requires strategy and teamwork without class roles? I have serious doubts.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,662
    Originally posted by PAL-18

     

    MMORPG action combat without hitboxes is pretty primitive in my eyes ,its year 2013 allready ,hey :)

    Blocking is not the only option just aim monster in the legs and he wont move anywhere without legs,cut his wings etc.

     

    Sounds fine to me though the mob would have to also have the same chance to "cripple" as well. Not sure how players would deal with that or if it would be fun. Then again, if we go a more "realistic" route then fights might be very short.

    edit: do you mean "specific" hit boxes for different areas? I ask because don't most mmo's utilize some sort of "hit box"?

     




  • ChrisboxChrisbox Member UncommonPosts: 1,729
    Originally posted by Shadowguy64
    As long as it isn't zergy, then I'll be very pleased. That's all I ask. No zerg.

    I guess the EQN team didn't play guild wars 2.

    You can't have no trinity without zergs.  Everything is a zerg, as much as I hate to admit it.  

    Played-Everything
    Playing-LoL

  • ragz45ragz45 Member UncommonPosts: 808
    Originally posted by Aceshighhhh

    Brian Green of Storybricks tweeted this today:

    "The holy trinity came about because of primitive MMO AI. Vastly improved AI means a new dynamic is needed. Wait before you despair." 

     

    Before everyone touts GW2 references or cries about the end of the world, consider that the system SOE is building for EQN requires the removal of the holy trinity. Guild Wars 2 didn't have near the AI fidelity that EQN will have. Let's wait until we can actually see the system in context before making huge assumptions.

    How do you know what the end AI will actually be like?  Promises by the Dev's?  So far the only hard evidence we have to go on is the video of the combat that has been shown so far.  Which looks VERY similar to GW2.

    If they really want to quash everyone's fears about combat being faceroll heavy (gw2), give us some video's that actually show this amazing AI in action.  Until I see hard evidence of an amazing AI that, that somehow transforms the combat from GW2 to something actually tactical.  I'm going to have to go with the evidence we have at hand.

  • ragz45ragz45 Member UncommonPosts: 808
    Originally posted by sirphobos

    My problem is that EQ1 combat was strategic.  Everyone had an important role to play and had to play that role well to be successful:

    The puller tried to keep a manageable amount of mobs in the camp

    The CC person locked down extra targets and watched for CC breaks and reapplied CC

    The tank identified priority targets and called for assists from the DPS (when was the last time someone used an assist button in an MMORPG?)

    The DPS assisted the tank and avoided getting aggro or breaking CC

    The healer kept everyone alive

    The debuffers debuffed mobs to help out the healer

    So called "action combat" games that I have seen throw all strategy out the window and turn everything into a zerg that does not require working together or any type of communication whatsoever.  Can SoE come up with a system that requires strategy and teamwork without class roles? I have serious doubts.

    QFT

  • NagelRitterNagelRitter Member Posts: 607
    Originally posted by sirphobos

    So called "action combat" games that I have seen throw all strategy out the window and turn everything into a zerg that does not require working together or any type of communication whatsoever.

    Are you trying to imply that professional Dota 2 players are not working together, not communicating, and have no strategy?

    Please answer that. I want to know.

    Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
    Currently playing: GW2, EVE
    Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?

  • sirphobossirphobos Member UncommonPosts: 620
    Originally posted by NagelRitter
    Originally posted by sirphobos

    So called "action combat" games that I have seen throw all strategy out the window and turn everything into a zerg that does not require working together or any type of communication whatsoever.

    Are you trying to imply that professional Dota 2 players are not working together, not communicating, and have no strategy?

    Please answer that. I want to know.

    DOTA is not an MMORPG.  I am talking about roleless PvE in MMORPGs.

  • ragz45ragz45 Member UncommonPosts: 808

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1x-PFqE9Ys

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF7We0TNUWQ

    Is a prime example of what people are afraid of.  GW2 dev's call this organic grouping.  IE your playing together without needing to form a group.  What we players call this, is a mess.  There's no group based tactics, no communication, everyone just running around doing their own thing.

  • sirphobossirphobos Member UncommonPosts: 620
    Originally posted by ragz45

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1x-PFqE9Ys

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF7We0TNUWQ

    Is a prime example of what people are afraid of.  GW2 dev's call this organic grouping.  IE your playing together without needing to form a group.  What we players call this, is a mess.  There's no group based tactics, no communication, everyone just running around doing their own thing.

    Pretty much this.  I don't see how that chaos is considered fun (or challenging).

  • korent1991korent1991 Member UncommonPosts: 1,364
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by Shadowguy64
    As long as it isn't zergy, then I'll be very pleased. That's all I ask. No zerg.

    Every game has that - get over it.
     

    EQ has no zerg whatsoever, none, and the reason is the trinity system and the dependency and controlled and strategic combat it creates.

    so basically, you're saying it's impossible to create a good semi-action combat system for MMORPGs without any trace of old trinity?

    that kind of thinking just makes me wonder why in the hell would you be satisfied with that?! IT'S BORING... You're determined to do only one role with your character and it's repetitive as hell... no diversity what so ever and I can't adjust to the situational requirments.

    In order to give us something better than what we already have requires innovation. Holy trinity is, in it's core, limited and thus it can't be interesting for long nor can it contribute to the next gen games. Trinity was created more than 10 years ago, I think it's finally time to evolve this stall mmorpg combat and questing system.

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  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter Member UncommonPosts: 3,065
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by PAL-18

    MMORPG action combat without hitboxes is pretty primitive in my eyes ,its year 2013 allready ,hey :)

    I know, right? In AC we had high, medium, and low attacks which opened the door to so many more possibilities but that, like so many other combat features, simply fell to the wayside.

    Guild Wars hat locational hit and damage and was sort of an action-tab hybrid like its successor.  You could put runes on each piece of armour just for that purpose.

    I really like action-oriented combat.  I'm sure it will keep evolving just like everything else.

    I'm also not a huge fan of the trinity. Or I should really say not a huge fan of how tank, taunt, and aggro mechanics work in traditional trinity combat.

    You couldn't aim though - was just random plus some skill auto default some area.

    Full aim MMORPGs are a long way - most don't even allow hitbox aim - because they will murder your system.

    Just came from anandtech forums where one guy with an i7 2600k@4.6GHz and a 7970@1200/1400 is complaining that GW2 is "slaying" his PC.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter Member UncommonPosts: 3,065
    Originally posted by sirphobos
    Originally posted by ragz45

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1x-PFqE9Ys

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF7We0TNUWQ

    Is a prime example of what people are afraid of.  GW2 dev's call this organic grouping.  IE your playing together without needing to form a group.  What we players call this, is a mess.  There's no group based tactics, no communication, everyone just running around doing their own thing.

    Pretty much this.  I don't see how that chaos is considered fun (or challenging).

    So are you guys comparing Open world game play with confined instances?

    Next you going to compare professional LoL/Dota 2 with pub LoL/Dota 2.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • PAL-18PAL-18 Member UncommonPosts: 844
    Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by PAL-18

    MMORPG action combat without hitboxes is pretty primitive in my eyes ,its year 2013 allready ,hey :)

    I know, right? In AC we had high, medium, and low attacks which opened the door to so many more possibilities but that, like so many other combat features, simply fell to the wayside.

    Guild Wars hat locational hit and damage and was sort of an action-tab hybrid like its successor.  You could put runes on each piece of armour just for that purpose.

    I really like action-oriented combat.  I'm sure it will keep evolving just like everything else.

    I'm also not a huge fan of the trinity. Or I should really say not a huge fan of how tank, taunt, and aggro mechanics work in traditional trinity combat.

    You couldn't aim though - was just random plus some skill auto default some area.

    Full aim MMORPGs are a long way - most don't even allow hitbox aim - because they will murder your system.

    Just came from anandtech forums where one guy with an i7 2600k@4.6GHz and a 7970@1200/1400 is complaining that GW2 is "slaying" his PC.

    Not really ,World of Tanks is doing it just fine right now.

     

    So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
    **On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **

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