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F2P shows its true colors.

BrialynBrialyn Member Posts: 184

I play this game off and on with my husband. It isn't particularly my cup of tea but it's fun to play with him so I partake while I wait for FFXIV.  It isn't a bad game, as I said, I have enjoyed my small amount of time but I don't care about lvling up the armor and weapons. I don't play it enough. Last night my husband found out why I hate to F2P because he never really understood it.  He is trying to unlock lvl 4 weapons and crafting them takes 5 days unless you want to spend money.  Ok, I understand that F2P needs to make money somehow (through vanity items are preferable to what they are doing).  However, the math doesn't add up to what I would pay for a sub.  15 bucks unlocks everything...the highest lvl craft might take a day.  To craft everything the husband wants to craft and not use all his crafting slots (so he can play other frames while he waits) will take 2 months (for one frame)! It's going to take two months no matter how much he plays. Unless, he wants to pay 100 bucks.  How is this "cheaper" than a sub? I just don't understand.  To be clear, this is not getting to max level in 2 months...this is getting equipment one lvl higher.  He currently has lvl 3 gear. 

Anyway I just told him welcome to the world of F2P and he said he didn't see himself playing the game much longer.  If the price were more reasonable (closer to a sub fee) he would happily pay that.  He isn't interested (nor would I allow him) in spending $100 bucks now only to discover if he wants to craft something for another frame  it's going to cost him another $100.  

I understand that there are people that love F2P but I haven't seen a shining example of it yet.  GW2 was B2P and it was fine because everything in the shop is vanity or convenience.  I suppose you could argue that it is convenience to buy time to speed up your craft but when something takes 5 days it's beyond ridiculous. 12 hours, fine. A day, fine. 5 days is stupid and the only reason to make it that long is to make people pay. So why not just have a sub? Or at least go B2P. My sub to FFXIV will cost me $179.88 for the year.  My husband in FF can't even get two frames with weapons maxed out for that.  I don't really want to start a whole F2P/P2P argument, though I know that is what is going to happen.  I just don't understand why some people continue to say it's the best model. It's the most used model right now, sure, but is it really what's best? 

Obviously I can't speak for all gamers.  However, I can speak for me, and this is the used car salesmen like feel I keep saying F2P games stink of. 


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Currently Playing: FFXIV:ARR
Looking Forward to: Wildstar
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Comments

  • wormedwormed Member UncommonPosts: 470
    You're using a horrible game as an example of F2P. There are far better F2P games out there that have much better shops and situations. Furthermore, Firefall is a terrible game to boot. He's doing himself a service by getting the fuck out of there.
  • MurphyleoMurphyleo Member Posts: 11

    I have not played this game yet so I cant speak to firefall specifically ..but while it isn't the traditional MMO , I have played a F2P game for the past 2 years everyday that I believe has the perfect F2P system , I encourage everyone to check it out , its called World of Tanks .

    I have played it as a free player and as a Premium player and as I have cash to spend or dotn I go betweenthese 2 statuses , month to month .

     

    A lot of ppl will tell you premium makes this difference and that difference in gameplay as a player of over 14,000 battles I can tell you it doesn't.

     

    Whether your free player or Premium player you can perform just the same .

    im not offereing it as a replacement for firefall for you but im saying its F2P model is amazing , and your talking to a guy who HATED F2P games prior to world of Tanks, I  was always a subscription player , From Everquest 2 , DAoC, CoH , Vanguard , Rift , Warhammer , and countless other games .

  • BigmamajamaBigmamajama Member Posts: 198
    Originally posted by wormed
    You're using a horrible game as an example of F2P. There are far better F2P games out there that have much better shops and situations. Furthermore, Firefall is a terrible game to boot. He's doing himself a service by getting the fuck out of there.

    No they are all based on the same principles that she explained.  The only exception to this rule are F2P games that used to be sub games.  Every F2P designed from the ground up to be F2P uses a cash shop that works like this.

    If you wanted to level 6 toons to max level keeping them in the best gear with enchants and do it within a reasonable amount of time will cost you a small fortune.

    In a sub game it might cost you a whooping 90 bucks total.

    People run around with gimped characters saying "But I'm playing for free!!"  Or they spend some ungodly amount of time working on one character, or they pay some obscene amount of money to shortcut the process.

    Enjoy your F2P's I don't play them, I cant afford them, the time or the money.

  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,211

    Try Rift, or PoE - I find their F2P models great - don't have to spend a cent, none of the content is gated.

  • AparitionAparition Member UncommonPosts: 91
    you might wanna get your facts straight, it takes 5 to 7 days to RESEARCH any items which you need only to do once, after that, the build time on say a level 4 weapon is like 10 hours. like you said, you don't understand enough about it, rather than going off half cocked, maybe learn about it instead :). sure 5 days is a long time but you can have that researching long before you actually get to a level where you can use the weapon, so it doesn't really effect your game play or your wallet.

  • BigmamajamaBigmamajama Member Posts: 198
    Originally posted by DMKano

    Try Rift, or PoE - I find their F2P models great - don't have to spend a cent, none of the content is gated.

    Your right because Rift was a sub game that went F2P and PoE is more like a single player RPG game with multiplayer support.

  • BjelarBjelar Member UncommonPosts: 398
    Originally posted by Brialyn

    Unless, he wants to pay 100 bucks.  How is this "cheaper" than a sub? I just don't understand.  

    It's not cheaper. He will have to pay for the other guys too, that's what makes it expensive.

    He can choose to be paid for by others, or pay for other people. That's F2P in a nutshell.

    Since most people would rather be paid for by others than pay for other people, the drawbacks in not paying must be huge. Otherwise noone would pay -and games do cost money to make.

    Fluff? I simply can not believe that enough people will pay enough money for silly hats to keep a 100 mill $ game afloat for ten years. Maybe I am wrong, silly hats can be awesome. But if I was an investor, and had payed for the game, silly hats just wouldn't do it for me.

  • Aldous.HuxleyAldous.Huxley Member Posts: 418
    Originally posted by Brialyn

    He isn't interested (nor would I allow him) in spending $100 bucks now only to discover if he wants to craft something for another frame  it's going to cost him another $100. 

    Most of the time when a female posts, I assume it's actually some neck-beard in mums basement having a go at everyone in the forums. But the above quote is rare, unrefutable proof that the OP is a real woman, indeed.

  • VentlusVentlus Member Posts: 96
    yea every f2p game from its origins is super cash shop based. Perfect world is company for instance i try to avoid cause of how much they charge. I never tried neverwinter since it had perfect world behind it and after all the complaints about cash shop thank god i didn't. but yea they might be fun for a little bit then you notice how much the cash shop is calling and thats when i tend to leave 
  • r3dl4ncer3dl4nce Member UncommonPosts: 114

    So are you saying that Firefall is P2W because you have to wait 4-5 days to craft an endgame item?

    In most F2P Pay 2 Win games, you can't obtain the most powerful items unless you pay... In Firefall the shop is totally unnecessary. You can use a lower tier weapon while you wait for the crafting of the T4... what's the problem?

     

     

  • VormirVormir Member UncommonPosts: 135
    Originally posted by r3dl4nce

    So are you saying that Firefall is P2W because you have to wait 4-5 days to craft an endgame item?

    In most F2P Pay 2 Win games, you can't obtain the most powerful items unless you pay... In Firefall the shop is totally unnecessary. You can use a lower tier weapon while you wait for the crafting of the T4... what's the problem?

     

     

    This.

    The shop doesn't have items that give players an unfair advantage over the other.

    You can even unlock other Battleframes by playing with the standard Battleframes.

    The only thing Red beans offers is to save time, nothing else. These are the best F2P business models.

    Cheers,

    V

  • NitthNitth Member UncommonPosts: 3,904


    Originally posted by Brialyn
    I play this game off and on with my husband. It isn't particularly my cup of tea but it's fun to play with him so I partake while I wait for FFXIV.  It isn't a bad game, as I said, I have enjoyed my small amount of time but I don't care about lvling up the armor and weapons. I don't play it enough. Last night my husband found out why I hate to F2P because he never really understood it.  He is trying to unlock lvl 4 weapons and crafting them takes 5 days unless you want to spend money.  Ok, I understand that F2P needs to make money somehow (through vanity items are preferable to what they are doing).  However, the math doesn't add up to what I would pay for a sub.  15 bucks unlocks everything...the highest lvl craft might take a day.  To craft everything the husband wants to craft and not use all his crafting slots (so he can play other frames while he waits) will take 2 months (for one frame)! It's going to take two months no matter how much he plays. Unless, he wants to pay 100 bucks.  How is this "cheaper" than a sub? I just don't understand.  To be clear, this is not getting to max level in 2 months...this is getting equipment one lvl higher.  He currently has lvl 3 gear. Anyway I just told him welcome to the world of F2P and he said he didn't see himself playing the game much longer.  If the price were more reasonable (closer to a sub fee) he would happily pay that.  He isn't interested (nor would I allow him) in spending $100 bucks now only to discover if he wants to craft something for another frame  it's going to cost him another $100.  I understand that there are people that love F2P but I haven't seen a shining example of it yet.  GW2 was B2P and it was fine because everything in the shop is vanity or convenience.  I suppose you could argue that it is convenience to buy time to speed up your craft but when something takes 5 days it's beyond ridiculous. 12 hours, fine. A day, fine. 5 days is stupid and the only reason to make it that long is to make people pay. So why not just have a sub? Or at least go B2P. My sub to FFXIV will cost me $179.88 for the year.  My husband in FF can't even get two frames with weapons maxed out for that.  I don't really want to start a whole F2P/P2P argument, though I know that is what is going to happen.  I just don't understand why some people continue to say it's the best model. It's the most used model right now, sure, but is it really what's best? Obviously I can't speak for all gamers.  However, I can speak for me, and this is the used car salesmen like feel I keep saying F2P games stink of. 

    This has all been said before and still people will not listen.

    However, If you want something free then something has to give. usually time.

    image
    TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  • elockeelocke Member UncommonPosts: 4,325
    Originally posted by Vormir
    Originally posted by r3dl4nce

    So are you saying that Firefall is P2W because you have to wait 4-5 days to craft an endgame item?

    In most F2P Pay 2 Win games, you can't obtain the most powerful items unless you pay... In Firefall the shop is totally unnecessary. You can use a lower tier weapon while you wait for the crafting of the T4... what's the problem?

     

     

    This.

    The shop doesn't have items that give players an unfair advantage over the other.

    You can even unlock other Battleframes by playing with the standard Battleframes.

    The only thing Red beans offers is to save time, nothing else. These are the best F2P business models.

    Cheers,

    V

    No they aren't.  Aion has the best.  Rift the second best.  After that it's a toss up on what you feel is better to pay for.  I personally like Lotro's hybrid system because you can just sub for a month or 2 and get points to unlock parts of the game when you get to them and then go back to unsubbed and still earn points while actually playing the game.   EQ2 and SWTOR all have horrible F2P models because they limit what you can do when you can just bypass it all with a sub.  Basically forcing a player to sub to play the game without hinderance.  Now we read this story about Firefall and they don't even have a sub option?  Rofl, yeah, it's a horrible F2P model.  Good thing the game sucks anyway so it's not too painful to just stop playing.

  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,211
    Originally posted by Bigmamajama
    Originally posted by DMKano

    Try Rift, or PoE - I find their F2P models great - don't have to spend a cent, none of the content is gated.

    Your right because Rift was a sub game that went F2P and PoE is more like a single player RPG game with multiplayer support.

    Swtor was a sub game and their F2P sucks. Heck EQ1 was a sub game and their F2P is pretty restrictive.

    There are simply bad and good f2p models out there.

  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,041
    Originally posted by wormed
    You're using a horrible game as an example of F2P. There are far better F2P games out there that have much better shops and situations. Furthermore, Firefall is a terrible game to boot. He's doing himself a service by getting the fuck out of there.

     This is a good post...There are many good examples of how f2p works very well, especially for the consumer, but there are some that are ripoffs also......FIrefall is a terrible game....Like this person said, jsut move on to another game and you won't miss this one at all.

  • r3dl4ncer3dl4nce Member UncommonPosts: 114
    Originally posted by elocke
    No they aren't.  Aion has the best.  Rift the second best.  After that it's a toss up on what you feel is better to pay for.  I personally like Lotro's hybrid system because you can just sub for a month or 2 and get points to unlock parts of the game when you get to them and then go back to unsubbed and still earn points while actually playing the game.   EQ2 and SWTOR all have horrible F2P models because they limit what you can do when you can just bypass it all with a sub.  Basically forcing a player to sub to play the game without hinderance.  Now we read this story about Firefall and they don't even have a sub option?  Rofl, yeah, it's a horrible F2P model.  Good thing the game sucks anyway so it's not too painful to just stop playing.

    I don't know if Firefall has the best F2P model on the market, but one thing is sure. Firefall is NOT FORCING you to buy anything from the store. You can do EVERYTHING in game and you can have EVERYTHING without spending a single dollar/euro, except some different colors (warpaints). You can unlock all the battleframes just by playing. You can craft every item. You can do every mission anytime you want. This is a correct F2P model.

    About the game, well, you think it sucks, I think Firefall and Defiance actually are the only 2 MMO themeparks  that are ok to be played, all the rest of the MMOs themeparks out there are boring wow-clones or simply boring requiring no skills in combat

     

  • dorugudorugu Member UncommonPosts: 184

    why bother using lvl 4 weapons when they get unrepairable after the repair pool on tht weapon is drained?

  • BlotieBlotie Member UncommonPosts: 29
    Because you can build another or buy it from another player.  Anyway, it takes a lot of dying to break an item.
  • BoonshniggleBoonshniggle Member Posts: 48
    Who cares? the game is crap...it'd be a horrid investment to buy any red beans and I feel sorry for anyone that bought their founder packages or whatevs they are called. Firefall is 90% marketing and 10% game and content. Red 5 will talk u to death about how GREAT this game is.....and as someone who has been in the beta for 2+ years....yeah, the devs pretty much have their thumbs up their butts, at best. What has been added to the game over that time is laughable. Don't have your hopes up and please oh please don't waste your money on this PR nightmare piece of sh**
  • BaitnessBaitness Member UncommonPosts: 656

    I do not know what I am misunderstanding with the complaint here... you can pay 100 dollars to unlock all the classes, or spend a day leveling a couple defaults up to get their first pilot points and buy your first class that way.  You still have to craft all the gear regardless of if you paid or not.  The 100 dollar starter pack literally gives you the same currency you get every few levels of leveling up a frame.

     

    If you are saying that you can use the cash shop to speed up crafting by paying to complete each individual crafting project... well that is kind of ridiculous and pointless, getting the materials and leveling up the frame will take more time.  The most advantageous thing you can get with the shop is a glider that recharges.  You can craft one use gliders for 200 cy I believe, which is as cheap as dirt.

  • r3dl4ncer3dl4nce Member UncommonPosts: 114

    For some days, unlocking new battleframes will cost only 7 pilot tokens instead of 10.

     

  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309

    I've been playing for 4 days now.  I've unlocked 1 advanced frame and am halfway to unlocking a 2nd.  I haven't paid a cent for anything.  I got the free glider that you for the discovery achievement and i'm slowly making my way through the crafting.

     

    I don't see that i need to spend money at all to enjoy this game.  Sure, i'd like to have some more cosmetic options, but I don't feel like i'm being left behind or that i can't do the content i want to do without it.  

     

    Sure, i could have EVERYTHING unlocked for me if i pay.. but then it would make playing the game kinda pointless, the whole idea is to level up and get more stuffs unlocked.

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
    Currently Playing: ESO

  • GravargGravarg Member UncommonPosts: 3,423
    The difference between tiers isn't all that great.  I'm using a tier 4 sniper rifle on my Nighthawk, and it only does like 2200 headshot damage, tier 1 does 1650ish.  The only difference it really makes is that Tier 4 can 1 shot headshot  with a sniper rifle against any difficulty of chosen.  It may be different on other weapons, but 500-700 damage isn't a big deal when it comes to headshots with a sniper rifle.  With tier 1, anything higher than yellow will require a headshot + 1 shot.  Headshots will also cause the enemy to stun for a sec, allowing you to get the second shot off easily...
  • LeirosLeiros Member UncommonPosts: 276
    Originally posted by Brialyn

    I play this game off and on with my husband. It isn't particularly my cup of tea but it's fun to play with him so I partake while I wait for FFXIV.  It isn't a bad game, as I said, I have enjoyed my small amount of time but I don't care about lvling up the armor and weapons. I don't play it enough. Last night my husband found out why I hate to F2P because he never really understood it.  He is trying to unlock lvl 4 weapons and crafting them takes 5 days unless you want to spend money.  Ok, I understand that F2P needs to make money somehow (through vanity items are preferable to what they are doing).  However, the math doesn't add up to what I would pay for a sub.  15 bucks unlocks everything...the highest lvl craft might take a day.  To craft everything the husband wants to craft and not use all his crafting slots (so he can play other frames while he waits) will take 2 months (for one frame)! It's going to take two months no matter how much he plays. Unless, he wants to pay 100 bucks.  How is this "cheaper" than a sub? I just don't understand.  To be clear, this is not getting to max level in 2 months...this is getting equipment one lvl higher.  He currently has lvl 3 gear. 

    Anyway I just told him welcome to the world of F2P and he said he didn't see himself playing the game much longer.  If the price were more reasonable (closer to a sub fee) he would happily pay that.  He isn't interested (nor would I allow him) in spending $100 bucks now only to discover if he wants to craft something for another frame  it's going to cost him another $100.  

    I understand that there are people that love F2P but I haven't seen a shining example of it yet.  GW2 was B2P and it was fine because everything in the shop is vanity or convenience.  I suppose you could argue that it is convenience to buy time to speed up your craft but when something takes 5 days it's beyond ridiculous. 12 hours, fine. A day, fine. 5 days is stupid and the only reason to make it that long is to make people pay. So why not just have a sub? Or at least go B2P. My sub to FFXIV will cost me $179.88 for the year.  My husband in FF can't even get two frames with weapons maxed out for that.  I don't really want to start a whole F2P/P2P argument, though I know that is what is going to happen.  I just don't understand why some people continue to say it's the best model. It's the most used model right now, sure, but is it really what's best? 

    Obviously I can't speak for all gamers.  However, I can speak for me, and this is the used car salesmen like feel I keep saying F2P games stink of. 

    I agree 100% with your loathing of F2P games. I am however, rather shocked at how many people actually defend F2P these days. Oh well, only 1 more day till FFXIV!!! image

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  • BaitnessBaitness Member UncommonPosts: 656
    Originally posted by Leiros
    Originally posted by Brialyn

    I play this game off and on with my husband. It isn't particularly my cup of tea but it's fun to play with him so I partake while I wait for FFXIV.  It isn't a bad game, as I said, I have enjoyed my small amount of time but I don't care about lvling up the armor and weapons. I don't play it enough. Last night my husband found out why I hate to F2P because he never really understood it.  He is trying to unlock lvl 4 weapons and crafting them takes 5 days unless you want to spend money.  Ok, I understand that F2P needs to make money somehow (through vanity items are preferable to what they are doing).  However, the math doesn't add up to what I would pay for a sub.  15 bucks unlocks everything...the highest lvl craft might take a day.  To craft everything the husband wants to craft and not use all his crafting slots (so he can play other frames while he waits) will take 2 months (for one frame)! It's going to take two months no matter how much he plays. Unless, he wants to pay 100 bucks.  How is this "cheaper" than a sub? I just don't understand.  To be clear, this is not getting to max level in 2 months...this is getting equipment one lvl higher.  He currently has lvl 3 gear. 

    Anyway I just told him welcome to the world of F2P and he said he didn't see himself playing the game much longer.  If the price were more reasonable (closer to a sub fee) he would happily pay that.  He isn't interested (nor would I allow him) in spending $100 bucks now only to discover if he wants to craft something for another frame  it's going to cost him another $100.  

    I understand that there are people that love F2P but I haven't seen a shining example of it yet.  GW2 was B2P and it was fine because everything in the shop is vanity or convenience.  I suppose you could argue that it is convenience to buy time to speed up your craft but when something takes 5 days it's beyond ridiculous. 12 hours, fine. A day, fine. 5 days is stupid and the only reason to make it that long is to make people pay. So why not just have a sub? Or at least go B2P. My sub to FFXIV will cost me $179.88 for the year.  My husband in FF can't even get two frames with weapons maxed out for that.  I don't really want to start a whole F2P/P2P argument, though I know that is what is going to happen.  I just don't understand why some people continue to say it's the best model. It's the most used model right now, sure, but is it really what's best? 

    Obviously I can't speak for all gamers.  However, I can speak for me, and this is the used car salesmen like feel I keep saying F2P games stink of. 

    I agree 100% with your loathing of F2P games. I am however, rather shocked at how many people actually defend F2P these days. Oh well, only 1 more day till FFXIV!!! image

    Just to clarify, again, this person misunderstood what the purchase gets them.  You can earn everything you get via money by levelling up your characters - which you had to do anyways.  Money is not giving you gear.  The only thing you cannot get on your own without paying is cosmetic differences and a glider on a 2 minute cooldown.

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