To everyone that is comparing the models of EQN to black desert, once both games are out, compare the number of pcs that can run one and the other.
Personally I think the artstyle fits the environment well, and with everything that will be going around you with the destruction of terrain, building, etc the game needed a light artstyle in order to even out the performance.
TBH I prefer a cartoony artstyle on a seamless world, than a more realistical one and having instances everywhere and loads every 5 minutes.
If they went with ultra real graphics that required a top of the line computer to run they would be alienating at least 50% of their player base. It's just good business sense to set the bar lower than that.
Originally posted by kitarad So it is not the cartoon look that you object to but the type of cartoon look they decided on.
It's the characters looking like shit that I object to. I don't like the EQOA graphics either.
The fact that EQ2's much criticized and 10-year-old models look substantially better than EQN is about all I need to see on that front. Even EQ2's terrible asian-themed SOGA models look better than anything in EQN.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Originally posted by kitarad So it is not the cartoon look that you object to but the type of cartoon look they decided on.
It's the characters looking like shit that I object to. I don't like the EQOA graphics either.
The fact that EQ2's much criticized and 10-year-old models look substantially better than EQN is about all I need to see on that front. Even EQ2's terrible asian-themed SOGA models look better than anything in EQN.
I do not agree the EQ 2 models really looked very bad to me although I played the game a lot. These on the other hand move more naturally then the stick up the butt EQ 2 model ever did. The pasty faces were horrid compared to the animated face of the human mage in the EQN presentation.
Originally posted by toddze Real MMO players dont really care about graphics, they know and understand high rendered graphics limits game play. I will be more than happy with EQN if there is good content, no hand holding, and players having to work together to play a multiplayer game.
I been playing mmo's since EQ was released at I can tell you this, its personal preference on what you like in your mmorpg.
However for me these graphics they have chosen is a immersion breaker for me and that is my problems with all the mmo's we have now, nothing but wow art.
I am pretty sure EQN gameplay will be fun for some just like wow, however <imo> I am saddened they chose this type of art direction we already see in the mmo's we have today.
I for the most part do not have a problem with the graphics as long as everything matches and is drawn the same with the same amount of detail.
That is where my problem lies. I don't think the actual character models have the same amount of detail as the world and the clothes they wear. The Kerran looks like he has badly colored skin stretched across his face instead of fur.
They need to adjust the color palette and add more detail to the characters and I will be happy and most likely before launch they will do a graphics pass to do that. Most games have before coming out.
Maybe I'm biased but I don't look at the game as being cartoony as people are making it out to be. I'd never play Wildstar because that is cartoony art style to me, EQN not so much. Maybe it's because the rest of the world is not cartoony and realistic (as opposed to Wildstar being cartoony all around). Maybe because I played WoW for over 6 years and didn't mind the art direction there. Or maybe because to me gameplay is more important.
Listen I know people may be upset with the art direction, but for Pete's sake give the game a chance because we haven't seen this element of world building, NPC A.I. and Open World exploration with this many layers ever.
EQN is looking more and more like perennial PvE sandbox MMO many of us have been wanting for a very long time.
I'm tired of that old argument. If graphics really didn't mean a damn, then we'd be better off playing more complex and imaginative text based MMOs.
The art style and graphics are what creates immersion in a game...this is the problem I have with EQN's art style, it feels like a GAME, not like I'm in a real alternate world. That is the definition of immersion right there. When you watch a movie and start identifying with the characters and CARING what happens to them as if you are in their place, that is immersion. Cartoony graphics completely ruins the immersion feeling to me in games, I don't identify with my character and I am not sucked into the world feeling like what is happening to my character is happening to me, that is to actually CARE about my character.
In the end graphics/art style is all about immersion and cartoony graphics just don't do it for me anymore as I am not 10 years old.
"They wanted to do simpler graphics so more computers can run the game...They did not want to loose those potential customers"
-And yet ironically they alienated a large portion of their current fan base.
"They made 'stylized' graphics so it can last 5-10 years and age better"
-and yet most current games only include 3 months if not less worth of content. So many current games are basically churn and burn tactics (aka make money and move on) why do they care about how it ages?
Sorry but art style does matter to people. I may not be priority #1 for them but people get older more mature, they don't want to play a mmo that characters look like a Walt Disney cartoon.
"They wanted to do simpler graphics so more computers can run the game...They did not want to loose those potential customers"
-And yet ironically they alienated a large portion of their current fan base.
I don't buy the 'simpler graphics are for making the game playable on crap computers' argument. Voxel environments are huge on system resources, much more than poly count and texture sizes. You can take a high-poly environment and make it playable on crappy PCs using level of detail, sizing down the textures, etc, but with such dynamic environments your options are limited.
People thinking games such as Black Desert will have higher system requirements are in for a surprise.
I hate F2P with a passion, and SOE's F2P truly sucks.
So far to me the worst part of EQN is that it's F2P.
I would prefer to buy the game, pay a sub, have all players having equal access, with no special treatment for people who are willing to dump piles of cash on the game along with no "lower class" of people who don't want to pay for anything and are willing to play a gimped game to avoid paying.
F2P is the worst thing to happen to MMOs and gaming.
PS - I can't judge the art work til I play. Videos and screenies just don't cut it. First impression is that it looks like a console game, which go figure, it's being designed for the next gen playstation, including the gimping of gameplay to be suitable for console controllers.
You and I are the few that get this, we are that other group of gamers that seem to be employed and understand how basic economics works with regards to in game content value and time. Meaning playing for free gives you a restrictive experience you have to work 8x harder to over come. Or paying your way through the game to maintain a top tier character costs far more than a sub with no cash shop. And now try to do that with 8 characters and see what the bill comes out to.
There is a give and take when it comes to graphics .. either they are realistic and static, or dynamic and simpler.
I would prefer dynamic graphics any day. Everything created from small parts, or Voxels, is very cool. Meaning a tree just doesn't fall down, it can be blown to small pieces interjoined, with branches still intact.
See the presentation .. players missed with their spells and caused destruction to the nearby trees .. the boss attack when a player dodged caused damage to the walls / floor.
Huge WOW factor. I'll take cartoony graphics for this play style any day! .. I mean whats the alternative .. a beautifully rendered static world with no interaction and no day-night cycle? no thank you.
SOE is thinking outside the box, and I think they are going to win.
+1
am I allowed to +amillion?
you summed it up perfectly man. the less taxing the graphics the more crazy stuff we can do with the models. the more realistic the graphics the more restricted we are going to be with the models, especially in a game where there might be 75 folks all in the same area. to get realistic models to work we'd have to set it so our character is fully rendered and everyone else around them is a stik figure.
so a wise developer will try to strike a happy med ground between the quality of the characters and the freedom of the characters to do neat stuff, which seems like what they were going for.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
There is a give and take when it comes to graphics .. either they are realistic and static, or dynamic and simpler.
I would prefer dynamic graphics any day. Everything created from small parts, or Voxels, is very cool. Meaning a tree just doesn't fall down, it can be blown to small pieces interjoined, with branches still intact.
See the presentation .. players missed with their spells and caused destruction to the nearby trees .. the boss attack when a player dodged caused damage to the walls / floor.
Huge WOW factor. I'll take cartoony graphics for this play style any day! .. I mean whats the alternative .. a beautifully rendered static world with no interaction and no day-night cycle? no thank you.
SOE is thinking outside the box, and I think they are going to win.
+1
am I allowed to +amillion?
you summed it up perfectly man. the less taxing the graphics the more crazy stuff we can do with the models. the more realistic the graphics the more restricted we are going to be with the models, especially in a game where there might be 75 folks all in the same area. to get realistic models to work we'd have to set it so our character is fully rendered and everyone else around them is a stik figure.
so a wise developer will try to strike a happy med ground between the quality of the characters and the freedom of the characters to do neat stuff, which seems like what they were going for.
K
The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.
Originally posted by DMKanoWhat many hoped for was this:
I would have no doubt preferred this, but I will nevertheless enjoy what they are giving us.
The ironic thing is that screen is from an Asian game developed in Asia.
As much negative things as I've had to say about asian mmo's, the more I've seen of this game and Archeage is starting to make me think I need to open my mind a bit more to looking beyond the US for the types of mmos I would enjoy most.
Originally posted by zethcarn If they went with ultra real graphics that required a top of the line computer to run they would be alienating at least 50% of their player base. It's just good business sense to set the bar lower than that.
How about you play Black Desert Online then, I mean after all, The character models like you seem to be saying are all that matters, so BDO should be the perfect game for you over Everquest Next...Cause nothing else matters, but how the characters look
For anyone who's upset with the art direction have you considered? ..... moving on?... Since its not going to change. Plenty of pseudo-realistic MMOs in the sea. In fact aside from Wildstar, EQN is the only stylised MMO out of the new batch coming out. Pseudo-realism MMOs far outweigh the stylised ones. Go play one of them instead.
Comments
Lets hope EQN will not follow EQOA's footstep. Readers do know what happen to EQOA, right?
I really want EQN to succeed, really, but the character graphics is now SOE's butt of all jokes.
The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.
To everyone that is comparing the models of EQN to black desert, once both games are out, compare the number of pcs that can run one and the other.
Personally I think the artstyle fits the environment well, and with everything that will be going around you with the destruction of terrain, building, etc the game needed a light artstyle in order to even out the performance.
TBH I prefer a cartoony artstyle on a seamless world, than a more realistical one and having instances everywhere and loads every 5 minutes.
EQQA did fine imo, it lasted nine years.
It is one of the first MMORPG released on console back then with 56k internet connection, it lasted longer than PSO.
It's the characters looking like shit that I object to. I don't like the EQOA graphics either.
The fact that EQ2's much criticized and 10-year-old models look substantially better than EQN is about all I need to see on that front. Even EQ2's terrible asian-themed SOGA models look better than anything in EQN.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
I do not agree the EQ 2 models really looked very bad to me although I played the game a lot. These on the other hand move more naturally then the stick up the butt EQ 2 model ever did. The pasty faces were horrid compared to the animated face of the human mage in the EQN presentation.
I been playing mmo's since EQ was released at I can tell you this, its personal preference on what you like in your mmorpg.
However for me these graphics they have chosen is a immersion breaker for me and that is my problems with all the mmo's we have now, nothing but wow art.
I am pretty sure EQN gameplay will be fun for some just like wow, however <imo> I am saddened they chose this type of art direction we already see in the mmo's we have today.
I for the most part do not have a problem with the graphics as long as everything matches and is drawn the same with the same amount of detail.
That is where my problem lies. I don't think the actual character models have the same amount of detail as the world and the clothes they wear. The Kerran looks like he has badly colored skin stretched across his face instead of fur.
They need to adjust the color palette and add more detail to the characters and I will be happy and most likely before launch they will do a graphics pass to do that. Most games have before coming out.
The art style and graphics are what creates immersion in a game...this is the problem I have with EQN's art style, it feels like a GAME, not like I'm in a real alternate world. That is the definition of immersion right there. When you watch a movie and start identifying with the characters and CARING what happens to them as if you are in their place, that is immersion. Cartoony graphics completely ruins the immersion feeling to me in games, I don't identify with my character and I am not sucked into the world feeling like what is happening to my character is happening to me, that is to actually CARE about my character.
In the end graphics/art style is all about immersion and cartoony graphics just don't do it for me anymore as I am not 10 years old.
A couple things I'd like to point out.
"They wanted to do simpler graphics so more computers can run the game...They did not want to loose those potential customers"
-And yet ironically they alienated a large portion of their current fan base.
"They made 'stylized' graphics so it can last 5-10 years and age better"
-and yet most current games only include 3 months if not less worth of content. So many current games are basically churn and burn tactics (aka make money and move on) why do they care about how it ages?
I don't buy the 'simpler graphics are for making the game playable on crap computers' argument. Voxel environments are huge on system resources, much more than poly count and texture sizes. You can take a high-poly environment and make it playable on crappy PCs using level of detail, sizing down the textures, etc, but with such dynamic environments your options are limited.
People thinking games such as Black Desert will have higher system requirements are in for a surprise.
This is exactly what I was thinking too.
I can not play WoW for this very reason. I hate cartoonish characters in MMOs, hate it with a passion.
You and I are the few that get this, we are that other group of gamers that seem to be employed and understand how basic economics works with regards to in game content value and time. Meaning playing for free gives you a restrictive experience you have to work 8x harder to over come. Or paying your way through the game to maintain a top tier character costs far more than a sub with no cash shop. And now try to do that with 8 characters and see what the bill comes out to.
Didn't expect to be playing with these:
Boy this post just nails it.......
edit: What is that lower screen shot of?
They show the character models about halfway through, their eyes even follow your movements. Looks pretty good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNtB5DoJ6OI
+1
am I allowed to +amillion?
you summed it up perfectly man. the less taxing the graphics the more crazy stuff we can do with the models. the more realistic the graphics the more restricted we are going to be with the models, especially in a game where there might be 75 folks all in the same area. to get realistic models to work we'd have to set it so our character is fully rendered and everyone else around them is a stik figure.
so a wise developer will try to strike a happy med ground between the quality of the characters and the freedom of the characters to do neat stuff, which seems like what they were going for.
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
K
The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.
As much negative things as I've had to say about asian mmo's, the more I've seen of this game and Archeage is starting to make me think I need to open my mind a bit more to looking beyond the US for the types of mmos I would enjoy most.
Planet Side 2, TOO HARD TO RUN, yeah okay.
How about you play Black Desert Online then, I mean after all, The character models like you seem to be saying are all that matters, so BDO should be the perfect game for you over Everquest Next...Cause nothing else matters, but how the characters look