Classic EQ much more like sandbox than themepark in that it was non linear, had no quest hubs, no fast travel, no instances, had death penalty, high risk vs reward and a ton of exclusivity that doesn't exist in WoW. Literally had no feature that accelerated the progression process, no instant gratification mechanics which were the hallmark of themepark, aka WoW.
I think people have gotten to the point where they are insulted when a game they played is classified as a themepark, as if it were a dirty word. The fact is EQ was a very good game, but it was a themepark. In fact, I would argue Wow stole a lot of these concepts.
I think that's a big part of it.
"I like EQ. Themepark = bad. Therefore EQ != themepark."
Just because a bunch of other games came along to polish the genre and provide even more guidance doesn't mean that EQ had... any way at all to alter other players' experience. (Except on PVP servers I suppose).
Sandbox != "Hardcore" or "Risk vs. Reward" or "Solid Community" or the other positive qualities of EQ.
Not sure how anyone could say that EQ wasn't a themepark.
EQ's design predates the themepark/sandbox dichotomy and the discussion around it. While most of todays themepark MMOs build on foundations layed by EQ, a lot of the features that define a themepark MMO today were not yet developed fully in EQ. If you want an illustration, you could say EQ was a themepark site with most attractions not yet built.
Nonsense.
Lets review:
EQ had linear zone progression. Zone 1 was lvl 1-5 with quests in that lvl range. The next zone was 5-10, 10-20 etc and so on. Linear progression is a staple of themeparks.
The game had an extremely rigid class system. All mages were pretty much identical, all Necros has access to the same skills, etc If you saw 1 Enchanter, you saw them all. This is also a characteristic of a themepark. There was virtually no freedom to develop your character how you chose. Once you select your class, your pretty much in a gear/level grind.
The class quests were as linear as they get, similar to SWTOR. A Themepark characteristic.
The zones were not free at all and had multiple invisible walls. This structure was very similar to what wow had, No way can anyone call this "an open world" another CLEAR themepark trait.
The higher level dungeons required you to complete previous content in order to have access to them. Again, as linear as you can get.
The gear progression was also linear, another idea Wow took from EQ. After you do Dungeon A to complete that set you move onto dungeon B. Are you gonna argue wow isn't a themepark too?
I have seen a lot of people say stuff like "if you think EQ was a themepark, you didn't play." Well I did play, I played a lot back in the day. So I would like to ask these posters what qualities they think EQ had that was even remotely sandbox?
I think people have gotten to the point where they are insulted when a game they played is classified as a themepark, as if it were a dirty word. The fact is EQ was a very good game, but it was a themepark. In fact, I would argue Wow stole a lot of these concepts.
Nice to see someone spewing a bunch of bs considering everquest was was based off of a dikuMUD concept. "themeparks and sandboxes" as a game design didn't even exist yet. It's easy to label it that way now but WHEN I STARTED PLAYING IT in Dec 1998 (yes I was a beta tester) no way in hell was everquest a "themepark"...
I think people have gotten to the point where they are insulted when a game they played is classified as a themepark, as if it were a dirty word. The fact is EQ was a very good game, but it was a themepark. In fact, I would argue Wow stole a lot of these concepts.
Nice to see someone spewing a bunch of bs considering everquest was was based off of a dikuMUD concept. "themeparks and sandboxes" as a game design didn't even exist yet. It's easy to label it that way now but WHEN I STARTED PLAYING IT in Dec 1998 (yes I was a beta tester) no way in hell was everquest a "themepark"...
You sir are clearly talking out of your rearend.
Geez seriously? The TERMS didn't exist yet, so what? I guess Ultima Online wasn't a "sandbox" then either.
The issue is that the word themepark does sort of describe EQ, but it also doesn't really do the game (or other games such dubbed) justice. A themepark applies better to games post modern WoW where you have tight quest hubs on rails and there's very little to do besides what is officially prescribed.
I'd generally think there needs to be another section, maybe story-driven MMORPG's, where "themepark" is a subset.
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW Currently playing: GW2, EVE Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
EQ wasnt as linear as WoW, but it was still linear. The end goal was the same, get to max level and progress through tiered content. It just didn't point it out as blatantly as the post-WoW era MMOs do. This isn't a bad thing, and you don't need to take it personally, but it was the grandaddy of theme parks. A tough old theme park that made you walk barefoot in the snow, but a theme park nonetheless. Large worlds do not make a sandbox if you are still being led to the same end. Sandboxes have no end, you are part of an ever evolving world which you can manipulate.
so many discussions regarding Sandbox's and the PvP requirement in a Sandbox MMO.
all of this based on the fact SoE wants to take EQ, one of the biggest PvE THEMEPARK MMOs in history, and make it into a Sandbox, a genre which had a definition change to meaning FFA PvP MMO were you can kill anybody or anything at any time.
these two ideas and communities are clashing as the date of the reveal sets upon us. I wouldn't be surprised if the forum explodes tomorrow during the reveal.
this is getting crazy!
come on, even you all have to agree with me at least once in your lifetime. How about now?!?
lol^ what r u saying? What r u asking?
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
Apparently, caused several staff members to jizz..er, poop in their pants. Or at least predict that you would. (Purely speculative: sparkling visions of possible future advertising revenues.)
Short of that, a whole lot of determined doom-crying, hype-mongering, and argument from the local readers.
But what game doesn't do that? Even Scarlet Blade...
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
EQ, one of the biggest PvE THEMEPARK MMOs in history
You either never played EQ or don't know what a themepark is
I don't want to sound like I am aligned with the OP, cause I think he is a wierdo. But I am interested in this response. Are you saying Everquest wasn't a themepark?
It absolutely was, I played it for a long time. I am a sandbox guy by nature but in the world of Themeparks EQ doesn't get the credit it deserves( or possibly the infamy) for pioneering some of the things in Wow that themeparkers love and Sandboxers hate.
Ummmm I'm going to have to disagree.. EQ was no themepark.. I wouldn't call it a sandbox either.. but it was closer to a sandbox then themepark.. But then I define sandbox as having freedoms of choice, whether it be progression or exploration.. For me themeparks are like a straight line with no getting off the tracks...... Sandboxes are like spider webs, freedom to go down any path I want.
Pretty much the definition I use myself. Besides a lot of gaming companies will use the word sandbox to describe an open world. Not that that is the proper definition but I do believe the terminology has become a little to narrow for my liking.
Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.
Me: So you want something like EQN
Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.
Comments
Classic EQ much more like sandbox than themepark in that it was non linear, had no quest hubs, no fast travel, no instances, had death penalty, high risk vs reward and a ton of exclusivity that doesn't exist in WoW. Literally had no feature that accelerated the progression process, no instant gratification mechanics which were the hallmark of themepark, aka WoW.
Get your sub-genres right.
I think that's a big part of it.
"I like EQ. Themepark = bad. Therefore EQ != themepark."
Just because a bunch of other games came along to polish the genre and provide even more guidance doesn't mean that EQ had... any way at all to alter other players' experience. (Except on PVP servers I suppose).
Sandbox != "Hardcore" or "Risk vs. Reward" or "Solid Community" or the other positive qualities of EQ.
Nice to see someone spewing a bunch of bs considering everquest was was based off of a dikuMUD concept. "themeparks and sandboxes" as a game design didn't even exist yet. It's easy to label it that way now but WHEN I STARTED PLAYING IT in Dec 1998 (yes I was a beta tester) no way in hell was everquest a "themepark"...
You sir are clearly talking out of your rearend.
Geez seriously? The TERMS didn't exist yet, so what? I guess Ultima Online wasn't a "sandbox" then either.
The issue is that the word themepark does sort of describe EQ, but it also doesn't really do the game (or other games such dubbed) justice. A themepark applies better to games post modern WoW where you have tight quest hubs on rails and there's very little to do besides what is officially prescribed.
I'd generally think there needs to be another section, maybe story-driven MMORPG's, where "themepark" is a subset.
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
lol^ what r u saying? What r u asking?
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
Apparently, caused several staff members to jizz..er, poop in their pants. Or at least predict that you would. (Purely speculative: sparkling visions of possible future advertising revenues.)
Short of that, a whole lot of determined doom-crying, hype-mongering, and argument from the local readers.
But what game doesn't do that? Even Scarlet Blade...
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Pretty much the definition I use myself. Besides a lot of gaming companies will use the word sandbox to describe an open world. Not that that is the proper definition but I do believe the terminology has become a little to narrow for my liking.
Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.
Me: So you want something like EQN
Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.
Me: Double Facepalm.