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[Column] Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn: Musing on PvP in FFXIV: A Realm Reborn

BillMurphyBillMurphy Former Managing EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 4,565

Final Fantasy MMOs have always been about PvE, but is there something to be said about Square Enix's plans for PvP in Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn? Read on for our thoughts and share your own with us in the comments!

I’ve had a basic familiarity with Square Enix’s endeavors to add PvP to FFXIV, but I didn’t find out until recently that game director Naoki Yoshida is a serious PvP enthusiast and that the team has been working on the game’s PvP component in some form since he took over .

Read more of Michael Bitton's Musing on PvP in FFXIV: A Realm Reborn.


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Comments

  • KopogeroKopogero Member UncommonPosts: 1,685
    Lol, PvP is a must if they require a sub and it must be superior with the PvE if this game will ever have a chance at long success.

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  • LegendtriggerLegendtrigger Member Posts: 39

    The only thing that bothers me is that they release frontline pvp so far away after launch.

    I mean common 6 months thats rly long.

     
  • tommygunzIItommygunzII Member Posts: 321
    Originally posted by Kopogero
    Lol, PvP is a must if they require a sub and it must be superior with the PvE if this game will ever have a chance at long success.

    Not really. I played FFXI for years and never once touched the PVP aspect of it. There was so much to do in FFXI that ballista was pretty much something to do with your free time, like fishing. I love PVP but it isn't necessary in some games, especially if the PVE is great. 

    In a lot of PVP games the PVE is lacking. I would rather FFXIV focus on PVE first and get that right like FFXI did.

  • OmrieOmrie Member UncommonPosts: 116
    I hope the PvP is similiar to something like Fantasy Earth Zero. that would absolutely amazing!!
  • RazeeksterRazeekster Member UncommonPosts: 2,591
    Originally posted by Kopogero
    Lol, PvP is a must if they require a sub and it must be superior with the PvE if this game will ever have a chance at long success.

    How is PvP a "must" if a game is to require a subscription? Please explain yourself before posting such things.

    Smile

  • KuppaKuppa Member UncommonPosts: 3,292
    I really hoped they would not even do pvp, this is mainly a pve game...

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  • ChrisboxChrisbox Member UncommonPosts: 1,729
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    I really hoped they would not even do pvp, this is mainly a pve game...

    I might actually buy this game now because he mentioned DAOC and warhammer.  

    Played-Everything
    Playing-LoL

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member EpicPosts: 8,535
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    Originally posted by Kopogero
    Lol, PvP is a must if they require a sub and it must be superior with the PvE if this game will ever have a chance at long success.

    How is PvP a "must" if a game is to require a subscription? Please explain yourself before posting such things.

    Its simple. I will pay 15 bucks a month if my needs as a gamer is covered. If I find I am paying 15 bucks a month for my PvE game and subbing another game to get PvP and now I am split between 2 MMOs and paying 30 bucks a month. Well lets just say if the PvP game has good PvE not hard to figure out what will happen. 

     

    I loved what I saw of the PvE game and from what I read I am gona love the class system. So here is hoping PvP system in this game is as well thought out as the PvE side of things =-)

     
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member EpicPosts: 8,535

    @ MikeB, yes the lack of info has me a little worried. As a PvP fan I have found post launch PvP add ons to MMOs to have a lack of depth.  Often feeling like everything felt like a afterthought. Will be interesting to see if Yoshi can pull this off. If he does, this game could reach epic levels.

     

    Also with 3 faction PvP there is also a need for server balance to make the battle fun. DAoC had to do a lot of work to try and balance their servers. PvP launching after players have picked their servers for PvE this also could end up being a problem. I hope SE has a plan in place to deal with this as well. 

     
  • twruletwrule Member Posts: 1,251

    I think most people who are interested in the game became such for the PvE aspect, and the lengths they announced plans to go to to flesh out a PvP aspect were just a pleasant surprise bonus. That said, what we've heard so far has been mostly promising. I'm not terribly happy with the fact that they brought a PvP stat akin to WoW's 'resilience' into the game, but otherwise I like what I'm hearing. We'll have to see how it shakes out.

    Btw, the reason there hasn't been a real precedent for PvP in the FF franchise despite the common appearance of faction conflict is because most FF titles feature maybe 2 factions, one which ends up being a front for the villian, the other assisting the heroes - with the exception of FFXI, where 3 factions had PvP 'sporting events' while being allies against a 4th power. It'll be interesting to see how they justify the RvR between what are supposed to be allies, more or less, in FFXIV.

  • RohnRohn Member UncommonPosts: 3,730

    The lack of PvP at launch is a pretty major shortcoming for a game these days.  It appears that, as with the previous game, PvP will be tacked on again.

    I guess we'll see how it turns out, but I don't expect much.  Talk is cheap.

    Arenas are just more of the same (like the rest of FFXIV), and faction-based warfare has also become more standard - GW2, WAR, TESO, RIFT, etc.  Most of these have a gamey, contrived feel, and I'd expect PvP in FFXIV to be the same.

    Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member RarePosts: 6,320
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    Originally posted by Kopogero
    Lol, PvP is a must if they require a sub and it must be superior with the PvE if this game will ever have a chance at long success.

    How is PvP a "must" if a game is to require a subscription? Please explain yourself before posting such things.

    Its simple. I will pay 15 bucks a month if my needs as a gamer is covered. If I find I am paying 15 bucks a month for my PvE game and subbing another game to get PvP and now I am split between 2 MMOs and paying 30 bucks a month. Well lets just say if the PvP game has good PvE not hard to figure out what will happen. 

     

    I loved what I saw of the PvE game and from what I read I am gona love the class system. So here is hoping PvP system in this game is as well thought out as the PvE side of things =-)

     

    If YOUR needs are covered.

    If YOUR needs are not covered. Then don´t pay and don´t play. It´s that simple.

    I happily pay 15 bucks a month for a PVE only MMO, like FFXIV that gives me full access to all content and features, without the nickle & diming and Pay 2 Win crap in so called Freemium and F2P games!

    I like PVP, but I don´t need it in FFXIV to enjoy the game. Just like I enjoyed the heck out of EverQuest 2 and LOTRO for many years without ever touching PVP.

  • KopogeroKopogero Member UncommonPosts: 1,685

    PvP is a must in PvE designed themepark as FFXIV. Without PvP to fill the gap when I'm not PvEing/raiding, which happens 2-3 days for 2-3 hours in the week it won't justify the sub fee model.

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  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member EpicPosts: 8,535
    Originally posted by twrule

    I think most people who are interested in the game became such for the PvE aspect, and the lengths they announced plans to go to to flesh out a PvP aspect were just a pleasant surprise bonus. That said, what we've heard so far has been mostly promising. I'm not terribly happy with the fact that they brought a PvP stat akin to WoW's 'resilience' into the game, but otherwise I like what I'm hearing. We'll have to see how it shakes out.

    Btw, the reason there hasn't been a real precedent for PvP in the FF franchise despite the common appearance of faction conflict is because most FF titles feature maybe 2 factions, one which ends up being a front for the villian, the other assisting the heroes - with the exception of FFXI, where 3 factions had PvP 'sporting events' while being allies against a 4th power. It'll be interesting to see how they justify the RvR between what are supposed to be allies, more or less, in FFXIV.

     

    Turns out there is a Fortress that at the heart of the PvP map that grants you access by means of a portal to a part of the Crystal Palace that holds untold power. Inside there is Bosses and monsters that have items of power that could reshape the lands. Who ever hold this power could rule all the lands. Each city is fighting for the right to take its rightful place of power. I made that up in a few min. I am sure their writers could do better.

     
     
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member EpicPosts: 8,535
    sinp misspost

     

     
     
  • RaxeonRaxeon Member UncommonPosts: 2,267
    we will have arena pvp at launch
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member EpicPosts: 8,535
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Razeekster
    Originally posted by Kopogero
    Lol, PvP is a must if they require a sub and it must be superior with the PvE if this game will ever have a chance at long success.

    How is PvP a "must" if a game is to require a subscription? Please explain yourself before posting such things.

    Its simple. I will pay 15 bucks a month if my needs as a gamer is covered. If I find I am paying 15 bucks a month for my PvE game and subbing another game to get PvP and now I am split between 2 MMOs and paying 30 bucks a month. Well lets just say if the PvP game has good PvE not hard to figure out what will happen. 

     

    I loved what I saw of the PvE game and from what I read I am gona love the class system. So here is hoping PvP system in this game is as well thought out as the PvE side of things =-)

     

    If YOUR needs are covered.

    If YOUR needs are not covered. Then don´t pay and don´t play. It´s that simple.

    I happily pay 15 bucks a month for a PVE only MMO, like FFXIV that gives me full access to all content and features, without the nickle & diming and Pay 2 Win crap in so called Freemium and F2P games!

    I like PVP, but I don´t need it in FFXIV to enjoy the game. Just like I enjoyed the heck out of EverQuest 2 and LOTRO for many years without ever touching PVP.

     

    Good Im happy for you =-) For others it requires more. How well they cover my gaming needs is how long I will sub. One year? 3 years? Much like the poster above who was asked why, big fans of PvP will want more. I gave one reason why a PvPer would want awesome PvP to keep subbing to the game. No reason to get your hackles up. Remember when you speak in caps you are yelling =-)

  • twruletwrule Member Posts: 1,251
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    Turns out there is a Fortress that at the heart of the PvP map that grants you access by means of a portal to a part of the Crystal Palace that holds untold power. Inside there is Bosses and monster that have items of power that could reshape the lands. Who ever hold this power could rule all the lands. Each city is fighting for the right to take its rightful place of power. I made that up in a few min. I am sure their writers could do better.

    Yeah...again, justifying this even though they are supposed to be allies - i.e. Not killing each other for power...really hope the writers do better than that...

  • VoqarVoqar Member UncommonPosts: 510
    Originally posted by Kopogero
    Lol, PvP is a must if they require a sub and it must be superior with the PvE if this game will ever have a chance at long success.

    Disagree.

    PvP in MMORPGs is generally grief-oriented, poorly balanced or impossible to balance, too tainted by class differences, build differences, and gear differences, usually meaningless, slapped on, no ties to the rest of the game, a mini-game.  A lot of times PvPers don't care about the rest of the game at all (and no clue why they'd play a game they don't like just for the weak PvP other than some people get off on griefing).

    I'd be happy to see a new MMORPG with no significant PvP and a heavy focus on quality group-based PvE (and way less focus on soloability).

    All of the so-called WoW clones that are ultimately found lacking (or considered failures) all go heavily into solo, always have craptastic PvP, and always fail to invest enough in group-based PvE.

    So saying that a new MMO must have PvP to be successful is clearly not true when every "failure" since WoW has included PvP (and almost always the devs will spew during development that THIS TIME THEIR PVP IS GOING TO BE THE MOST AMAZING PVP EVARRRRRR...and it ends up sucking just like all MMO PvP).

    Perhaps a different approach is in order...like a focus on group-based PvE (where the MMORPG genre started, btw) with less emphasis on solo ez-mode and less emphasis on PvP minigames.

    BTW, I don't hate the idea of PvP, I just think it's more suited to other genres, where it can be more competitive, more balanced, and just better overall.

    Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.

  • DeserttFoxxDeserttFoxx Member UncommonPosts: 2,401
    Not sure why pvp players think they are large part of the playerbase.. pvp doesnt make or break a game.

    Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy

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  • ArskaaaArskaaa Member RarePosts: 1,265
    Originally posted by DeserttFoxx
    Not sure why pvp players think they are large part of the playerbase.. pvp doesnt make or break a game.

    Yeah but pvp should be there for second choice leveling. a lot players like to level by doing pvp rather then go do same "kill 10 ladybug" "pick up items here and there".

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member EpicPosts: 8,535
    Originally posted by DeserttFoxx
    Not sure why pvp players think they are large part of the playerbase.. pvp doesnt make or break a game.
     

    You could be right or wrong but this is how a lot of companies are looking at it. There are 3 pools of players. 1. Pure PvE players 2. Pure PvP player. 3. Players who like to PvP and PvE. Make a game thats pure PvE you only get players from one pool of players. Same with a game thats only focus is PvP you only get players from 1 pool of the 3 pools of players. Now... if you can make a game that has good PvP and PvE you can get players from all 3 pools. Thats the money spot =-) 

     

    As I posted above, I like PvE and PvP and will keep playing FF14 as long as my gaming needs are covered. But if I start getting the PvP itch and end up playing a 2nd MMO to get that, FF14 may lose me no matter how much I love their PvE. But like maybe PvEers have said... balancing a game for PvE and PvP is hard and you may lose everyone. Its a fun problem. Hope FF14 pulls it off because I love the game so far.

     
     
  • BadSpockBadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 7,979

    I know Yoshi-P himself, as in the lead designer on FFXIV was a very hardcore and top rated PvP player in DAOC back in the day.

    So the guy knows the ins and outs of DAOC PvP, for whatever that is worth.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member EpicPosts: 8,535
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    I know Yoshi-P himself, as in the lead designer on FFXIV was a very hardcore and top rated PvP player in DAOC back in the day.

    So the guy knows the ins and outs of DAOC PvP, for whatever that is worth.

     

    That was a selling feature for me =-) DAoC still stands as the best PvP I have ever played. Was nice that it removed PvP from the PvE area as well. So you could pick how you wanted to play.

  • NagelRitterNagelRitter Member Posts: 607
    Originally posted by Arskaaa
    Originally posted by DeserttFoxx
    Not sure why pvp players think they are large part of the playerbase.. pvp doesnt make or break a game.

    Yeah but pvp should be there for second choice leveling. a lot players like to level by doing pvp rather then go do same "kill 10 ladybug" "pick up items here and there".

    You really only need to level once in FF XIV, I think the PvPers will survive, and letting them to level by PvP kinda breaks the game since it has a lot of interesting stuff going on during leveling and there are various requirements for overall progress, getting your mount, unlocking your abilities, unlocking your job, etc., the game is just not adjusted for PvP-only leveling.

    That being said, I'm quite excited for the WvW/DaoC-like PvP options, myself.

    Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
    Currently playing: GW2, EVE
    Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?

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