Originally posted by Masterfuzzfuzz My mage literally stands in front of monsters a full level or two above me and just spams 1111111111111111111111111111. and I win. And that's it. I'm level 10 but 10 levels of that garbage is pretty dumb. Does it ever change or will I always be able to cast 1 spell and win? This game feels like every other game I've played in the past 4 years, what makes it different?
Which mage r you talking about? In groups, that's basically how CNJ works (assuming 1 is your heal). Though you occasionally have to press 2 for Medica (AoE heal) and eventually get other things.
I would wager he's talking about CNJ and how their soloing in the beginning consists of spamming the class' one nuke: Stone. Technically, CNJ also gets Aero, a dot, but it's not really worth using until a forthcoming buff to dots in general.
However, while it's true that there's not much variety if soloing with CNJ...it's a bit silly to expect much else from a class designed primarily for healing. He should have chosen THM if he wanted a 'mage' DD class with more buttons to push - or he could have leveled both classes and used the abilities from both if he really wanted. Clearly he didn't put much effort into learning about the game's design before coming here to complain...
Edit: That said, it's silly to reduce everything going on in an MMO experience to a series of button presses - that goes for any game really.
Having completed all story in beta, no it doesnt change much. I tanked the Ifrit battle and all I did was spam Skullsplitter, and at the end sidestep a little. People who will love FF XIV 2.0 are going to do so not because of the combat.
Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing. PS3
Originally posted by Masterfuzzfuzz My mage literally stands in front of monsters a full level or two above me and just spams 1111111111111111111111111111. and I win. And that's it. I'm level 10 but 10 levels of that garbage is pretty dumb. Does it ever change or will I always be able to cast 1 spell and win? This game feels like every other game I've played in the past 4 years, what makes it different?
Which mage r you talking about? In groups, that's basically how CNJ works (assuming 1 is your heal). Though you occasionally have to press 2 for Medica (AoE heal) and eventually get other things.
I would wager he's talking about CNJ and how their soloing in the beginning consists of spamming the class' one nuke: Stone. Technically, CNJ also gets Aero, a dot, but it's not really worth using until a forthcoming buff to dots in general.
However, while it's true that there's not much variety if soloing with CNJ...it's a bit silly to expect much else from a class designed primarily for healing. He should have chosen THM if he wanted a 'mage' DD class with more buttons to push - or he could have leveled both classes and used the abilities from both if he really wanted. Clearly he didn't put much effort into learning about the game's design before coming here to complain...
I'm sure they could have come up with more than two offensive spells for CNJ to level with. The only offensive spell you can get from THM is Thunder which is basically pointless since spamming stone is more efficient. He could have gotten some of the utility from THM like Surecast at level 8 or Swiftcast at level 26.
Some classes are more boring than others during solo play depending upon your personal preference. However, I don't think anyone could possibly find solo leveling a CNJ very fun or rewarding.
I havent played FF14 but back in FF11 black mage was 'fairly' one dimensional, in that the only interaction with the party was 'hate' or aggression control; I am not sure if skill chains will be returning in FF14 (they were awesome in FF11, which had some of the most complex and challenging pve of any mmo - in fact, i think one negative to the game was that although not 'twitch' based the combat and gameplay was a touch .. harsh)
Recently I have decided the best that can be expected of a MMO game is challenging pVE and a well crafted world ; since new mmos have continually failed to deliver Great PvP , I think the convergence of the genres is no longer possible (or extremely unlikely), plus just playing one game all the time is boring
one thing i will add is that ff11 was a fairly complex game to do right, for example, rather than just provoke and damage for hate, there was the thief who could trick and sneak attack to place more aggro to the tank while also doing increased damage with proper formation, i forget the phrased used to describe the proper set up but it was cool
Originally posted by Ehllfhire Having completed all story in beta, no it doesnt change much. I tanked the Ifrit battle and all I did was spam Skullsplitter, and at the end sidestep a little. People who will love FF XIV 2.0 are going to do so not because of the combat.
Played all story in beta, legacy character on Aegis 3 50's, also was very active in early dungeons such as Batraal (Back when teams were being wiped by the ogre fights) and i can honestly state i 100% disagree with you.
I am NOT saying the available content (which is up to rank 35 btw, i'm sick of people touting evaluations about early-mid game of MMO dungeons/experiences) is released to this level.
I am saying however, by even just joining up with old legacy guildies and killing trash 50 mobs in random areas, that the mechanics reworked and potential for strategic/large scale battle that gives you little time to think, is much more enjoyable.
Give SE a chance and what until you complete initial launch content like crystal tower/frontlines to give true merit to how the combat will be in terms of gameplay.
I love my lancer and the new traits/abilities are incredibly fun and tactical. Brd is great as well.
Originally posted by Masterfuzzfuzz My mage literally stands in front of monsters a full level or two above me and just spams 1111111111111111111111111111. and I win. And that's it. I'm level 10 but 10 levels of that garbage is pretty dumb. Does it ever change or will I always be able to cast 1 spell and win? This game feels like every other game I've played in the past 4 years, what makes it different?
Some classes are more boring than others during solo play depending upon your personal preference. However, I don't think anyone could possibly find solo leveling a CNJ very fun or rewarding.
Uh, I found Conjurer fun but I group with friends as much as I can. I still enjoyed going solo though. I think it's all in how you play a game. If people don't like the combat that's okay. Frankly some games you might like I might detest. Different strokes for different folks and other cliches.
I've had more fun in the XIV:ARR betas then I've had in any other MMO in a long, long time. So I'm definitely buying and playing. If you really disliked it as much as it appears OP, then this is not the game for you.
Currently Playing: FFXIV:ARR Looking Forward to: Wildstar
Originally posted by Masterfuzzfuzz My mage literally stands in front of monsters a full level or two above me and just spams 1111111111111111111111111111. and I win. And that's it. I'm level 10 but 10 levels of that garbage is pretty dumb. Does it ever change or will I always be able to cast 1 spell and win? This game feels like every other game I've played in the past 4 years, what makes it different?
Some classes are more boring than others during solo play depending upon your personal preference. However, I don't think anyone could possibly find solo leveling a CNJ very fun or rewarding.
Uh, I found Conjurer fun but I group with friends as much as I can. I still enjoyed going solo though. I think it's all in how you play a game. If people don't like the combat that's okay. Frankly some games you might like I might detest. Different strokes for different folks and other cliches.
I've had more fun in the XIV:ARR betas then I've had in any other MMO in a long, long time. So I'm definitely buying and playing. If you really disliked it as much as it appears OP, then this is not the game for you.
Right. CNJ is fine for group play, but that's not what I was talking about.
Unfortunately, no. Combat never really gets better, as far as I've seen.
It's unfortunate because the producer apparently believes leveling should be a tutorial, whereas end-game content is where the challenge should arrive. It's a bit puzzling how they forgot about 49 levels worth of grinding being boring, though.
Yeah an RPG with progressing difficulty. RIDICULOUS! UNHEARD OF!
Who is this mad producer with his zany theories that end game should be more challenging than low level content, which itself should increase in difficulty as a player levels up?
I understand that some people are tired of the old "same old, blech garbage trash MMORPG's" they feverishly hate so much but this is actually fairly typical of them. I guess we'll see if there is still a market for it. Orif it is just an outdated concept everyone agrees is boring.
It's not progressive. That's the problem with it.
It's literally "Here's the game. Force your way through it." and once you hit 50 ---> "End game? The game is just getting started!"
A game should scale naturally. That's the point of progress. Level 10 should be harder than level 1, level 20 should be harder than level 10, etc and so forth. But you're essentially spamming the same few skills for 30 levels. I can't say 31-49 will be the same, but come on... what evidence is there to suggest it won't be more of the same?
That is not true at all. The level 15 main story encounter (gargoyle/sultana kidnappers for example in Ul'dah) is far more difficult than anything you do until then. The first dungeons are more deadly, and will wipe your group if you do not work together on the encounters. Even trash mobs in dungeons cannot be simply steamrolled without tanking as they can in many other MMO's.
As you level up the dungeons become progressively more difficult demanding more cooperation from the group and teaching people their roles. Guildhests get more difficult from the first tutorial one (meant to introduce people to grouping).
I think you are wrong in saying that all this is boring, and there is no progression. Clearly there is, clearly many people find it as challenging as intended. But I guess you found it too easy and just spammed 1111111 and did all of these things because you are the MMO master that you are. I think maybe if you told people who died in lower level content, or didn't find it dreadful like you because of how insultingly easy it was that all they had to do was "force your way through it" they would probably instantly agree with you.
I really give up with you man. You just turn everything personal, every time. Take a glance at the board, or even this topic, and you'll see I'm not simply ranting and raving. It's a pretty common feeling. You're very snide and condescending. I just don't care to argue with you anymore.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Originally posted by Masterfuzzfuzz My mage literally stands in front of monsters a full level or two above me and just spams 1111111111111111111111111111. and I win. And that's it. I'm level 10 but 10 levels of that garbage is pretty dumb. Does it ever change or will I always be able to cast 1 spell and win? This game feels like every other game I've played in the past 4 years, what makes it different?
Which mage r you talking about? In groups, that's basically how CNJ works (assuming 1 is your heal). Though you occasionally have to press 2 for Medica (AoE heal) and eventually get other things.
I would wager he's talking about CNJ and how their soloing in the beginning consists of spamming the class' one nuke: Stone. Technically, CNJ also gets Aero, a dot, but it's not really worth using until a forthcoming buff to dots in general.
However, while it's true that there's not much variety if soloing with CNJ...it's a bit silly to expect much else from a class designed primarily for healing. He should have chosen THM if he wanted a 'mage' DD class with more buttons to push - or he could have leveled both classes and used the abilities from both if he really wanted. Clearly he didn't put much effort into learning about the game's design before coming here to complain...
I'm sure they could have come up with more than two offensive spells for CNJ to level with. The only offensive spell you can get from THM is Thunder which is basically pointless since spamming stone is more efficient. He could have gotten some of the utility from THM like Surecast at level 8 or Swiftcast at level 26.
Some classes are more boring than others during solo play depending upon your personal preference. However, I don't think anyone could possibly find solo leveling a CNJ very fun or rewarding.
I don't disagree with you. However, if what the producer says is true and things are meant to become more group oriented come 15, then no one should really expect to have to solo CNJ a whole lot beyond that, but it's not even necessary to do that if one is determined not to. I soloed one to about 11 the other day before some buddies joined in to quest as a group, and low-and-behold, things became more interesting for me since I could now make use of my full range of abilities. No rules against grouping up at any level, after all. Also, let's not forget FATEs - one can jump into healing those easily at any level even when no buddies are online if one needs a break from stone-spam.
The OP didn't seem to realize he was even playing a class intended for healing - he would have been advised to go for a THM instead as he was looking for a 'mage' class. Perhaps my expectations just weren't that high or I was too absorbed in the novelty of the game, but I wasn't too troubled by stone-spamming the first handful of levels; then again, I get a kick out of things like healing passing players who are getting low on health and such - my attention is not purely on the combat button presses (an attitude I recommend to the OP as I would anyone btw).
That said, I think there are going to be some changes coming down the line for this, and I agree some would be nice. Aero and Thunder, along with most other dots, are likely (or so I have heard) getting buffed - hopefully to the point where it would be efficient to dot up one mob while nuking another, or some such. It would be nice if they added some sort of synergy between stone and aero as well - maybe add some additional effect to cleric stance to make stone proc aero doing it's full damage upfront or something. Something like that would be an easy way to spice the early levels up without adding superfluous spells that will go unused as a max level healing white mage. Maybe one of us should go post something to that effect on the beta feedback forums?
Unfortunately, no. Combat never really gets better, as far as I've seen.
It's unfortunate because the producer apparently believes leveling should be a tutorial, whereas end-game content is where the challenge should arrive. It's a bit puzzling how they forgot about 49 levels worth of grinding being boring, though.
Yeah an RPG with progressing difficulty. RIDICULOUS! UNHEARD OF!
Who is this mad producer with his zany theories that end game should be more challenging than low level content, which itself should increase in difficulty as a player levels up?
I understand that some people are tired of the old "same old, blech garbage trash MMORPG's" they feverishly hate so much but this is actually fairly typical of them. I guess we'll see if there is still a market for it. Orif it is just an outdated concept everyone agrees is boring.
It's not progressive. That's the problem with it.
It's literally "Here's the game. Force your way through it." and once you hit 50 ---> "End game? The game is just getting started!"
A game should scale naturally. That's the point of progress. Level 10 should be harder than level 1, level 20 should be harder than level 10, etc and so forth. But you're essentially spamming the same few skills for 30 levels. I can't say 31-49 will be the same, but come on... what evidence is there to suggest it won't be more of the same?
That is not true at all. The level 15 main story encounter (gargoyle/sultana kidnappers for example in Ul'dah) is far more difficult than anything you do until then. The first dungeons are more deadly, and will wipe your group if you do not work together on the encounters. Even trash mobs in dungeons cannot be simply steamrolled without tanking as they can in many other MMO's.
As you level up the dungeons become progressively more difficult demanding more cooperation from the group and teaching people their roles. Guildhests get more difficult from the first tutorial one (meant to introduce people to grouping).
I think you are wrong in saying that all this is boring, and there is no progression. Clearly there is, clearly many people find it as challenging as intended. But I guess you found it too easy and just spammed 1111111 and did all of these things because you are the MMO master that you are. I think maybe if you told people who died in lower level content, or didn't find it dreadful like you because of how insultingly easy it was that all they had to do was "force your way through it" they would probably instantly agree with you.
I really give up with you man. You just turn everything personal, every time. Take a glance at the board, or even this topic, and you'll see I'm not simply ranting and raving. It's a pretty common feeling. You're very snide and condescending. I just don't care to argue with you anymore.
It's not snide and condescending to say that 1-49 is just a boring grind? I think it is snide to constantly resort to hyperbolic exaggerations and dismissing the notion that the game has a difficulty curve because you insist it is about only spamming a few abilities (despite being told by many people this is not the case).
I think the op just plain does not like the game. Sometimes it is hard to find the exact reason why we do not like a game so we nitpick at the first available system we do not like. If you think the grind is boring now...you never played the first one. This game (like all mmos should be imo) is also really meant to be played in a group. Hell OP picked a group based class to play and wondered why it was not as fun solo. That why the have a big variety in mob levels throughout the zones. Ever wondered why there are lvl 16 Gobbue spawns right outside Limsa? I imagine a properly built group of L10-12s could easily do xp chains on those. I never understood why antisocial people play mmos and companies feel like they have to cater to the solo only player.
You want a shitload of buttons...go play Rift. Half of them are useless and duplicates of other skills in the other trees but if it makes it feel "complex" to you, have fun. I played a conj in 1.0 as well as 2.0 and if I thought the mobs I was fighting were too easy, I found harder ones that I had to kite a bit and throw a self heal once in awhile or I grouped up to xp chain. No one says you can't move to a higher zone and kill harder enemies.
Can't please everyone devs so stop trying and find a niche market that will stick with your hard work. I do not want a CoD experience in my MMO.
Present: Current offerings are low quality or soloable
Past:AoC, DCUO, FFXI,FFXIV 1.0 and ARR,WoW,Fallen Earth, Tabula Rasa, TSW, SWTOR, Rift, Aion, WAR, Darkfall, STO, CoH/CoV, GW2, Diaspora, EQ2, DDO, and a bunch of forgettable ftp games
I won't go into my own opinion regarding the matter, but rather refer you to the "Beginner's Guide" I wrote that goes into depth with regards to a lot of things in A Realm Reborn (though mainly just what people need to know, as it isn't all inclusive of what level 20+ systems have).
A note with regards to what others may be arguing:
What you will see here on both sides of the argument is what has been going down with just about every game. Except this time around we have people with a bit more experience when it comes to ARR beta than others.
Let me explain that by saying there are those who reached around level 35 in this beta simply by leveling from level on. Then there are those who may have done this, but also acquired old character data from 1.0 to give them the chance to play level 50 characters. Therefore, we are seeing people who only leveled to 5-7 saying with vigor that players saying it improves -- and even going as far to outright say this to people who experienced the content up to 35 and have access to 50 combat -- are outright wrong. One party has experience and stuck around to see things: the introduction of new systems, the changes of others, the Team systems and generally have hundreds of hours of experience. Whereas the other has played (maybe) for a few hours, and make such comments as "I've played this before because I've played MMOs before" and "Once around the block, always around the block."
These are actual statements I saved, though the names of those who said them won't be given as I don't want to turn this into a personal issue rather than relay what is going on. Who is more a reliable source? That's for the individual to decide. Though as a man of the book myself, I'd say (as an example) experts in the specific field of String Theory would be better able to tell you what it is than someone who just has a broad experience across all forms of science.
Opinions are great, but there are situations in which one is more qualified to have them (and that isn't an implication saying that an opinion can be worthless; all opinions are valuable). I would not want the opinion of a CPA accountant when it comes to someone's medical examination; I would want my primary doctor's diagnosis along with a second opinion from another medical expert (we are oft warned against self diagnostics just because we may have seen the starting signs of something before; one of my mentors once said something along the lines of "all opinions are equally valuable, but at the same time are not equal").
Thus we enter into the whole "educated opinion" versus "uneducated opinion" territory with this specific game. The former has vast experience in which to form a guess, the latter uses the past to formulate a guess as they have little experience with the specific item in question.
With that, it's up to the individual to actually play the game from start to finish to see which is true. Both would be fools to say something is a guaranteed success or failure, but the reader's job is to find out who is more reliable and take it with a grain of salt (perhaps under advisory) as they go about finding it out for themselves.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Originally posted by Masterfuzzfuzz My mage literally stands in front of monsters a full level or two above me and just spams 1111111111111111111111111111. and I win. And that's it. I'm level 10 but 10 levels of that garbage is pretty dumb. Does it ever change or will I always be able to cast 1 spell and win? This game feels like every other game I've played in the past 4 years, what makes it different?
No it doesn't get better. And yes this game is like any other themepark MMO. What is different about it? nothing.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by Masterfuzzfuzz My mage literally stands in front of monsters a full level or two above me and just spams 1111111111111111111111111111. and I win. And that's it. I'm level 10 but 10 levels of that garbage is pretty dumb. Does it ever change or will I always be able to cast 1 spell and win? This game feels like every other game I've played in the past 4 years, what makes it different?
No it doesn't get better. And yes this game is like any other themepark MMO. What is different about it? nothing.
As someone who has a couple high levels, I actually disagree with Doogiehowser.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
the combat is boring and ARR isn't really that good...people hyping it up. basically youre going to pay for something you can get for free out of other titles...just my opinion
Originally posted by Masterfuzzfuzz My mage literally stands in front of monsters a full level or two above me and just spams 1111111111111111111111111111. and I win. And that's it. I'm level 10 but 10 levels of that garbage is pretty dumb. Does it ever change or will I always be able to cast 1 spell and win? This game feels like every other game I've played in the past 4 years, what makes it different?
No it doesn't get better. And yes this game is like any other themepark MMO. What is different about it? nothing.
As someone who has a couple high levels, I actually disagree with Doogiehowser.
The spamming is still there and combat in FFXIV even in its original version was more akin to hitting a pinata till it bursts and drop the candies.. There is no mobility in combat. Yes the animations get more flashier but it is still FFXIV we are talking about. That is how its combat has always been. You can pretty much stand at one place and kill the mob.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by gandles the combat is boring and ARR isn't really that good...people hyping it up. basically youre going to pay for something you can get for free out of other titles...just my opinion
Opinions are great! Though I believe those who actually have level 1-35 characters in beta -- as well as level 50 characters that were just transferred -- are more reliable as a source of information.
It's how I wouldn't ask Dr. Phil for an opinion on String Theory; I would go to Dr. Michio Kaku for that. He actually put in the time to understand such and does not formulate an opinion based on past experiences with studies rather than the topic of String Theory on hand (I.E. some just used past experiences and say "played one, played all" whereas another may actually spent significant time in which to formulate their own opinion).
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Originally posted by Masterfuzzfuzz My mage literally stands in front of monsters a full level or two above me and just spams 1111111111111111111111111111. and I win. And that's it. I'm level 10 but 10 levels of that garbage is pretty dumb. Does it ever change or will I always be able to cast 1 spell and win? This game feels like every other game I've played in the past 4 years, what makes it different?
No it doesn't get better. And yes this game is like any other themepark MMO. What is different about it? nothing.
As someone who has a couple high levels, I actually disagree with Doogiehowser.
The spamming is still there and combat in FFXIV even in its original version was more akin to hitting a pinata till it bursts and drop the candies.. There is no mobility in combat. Yes the animations get more flashier but it is still FFXIV we are talking about. That is how its combat has always been. You can pretty much stand at one place and kill the mob.
I would actually like to direct you to post #40 to answer this response.
Though more accurate, in that it's up to the individual to see who is a more reliable source and, irregardless, their own tastes will come into play and they will come up with their own ideas.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
I would actually like to direct you to post #40 to answer this response.
Though more accurate, in that it's up to the individual to see who is a more reliable source and, irregardless, their own tastes will come into play and they will come up with their own ideas.
So who is the more reliable source here? the fans who can not take any criticism of the game?
By the way there are already some official videos of high level combat on you tube. One can see and judge it for themselves. Nothing is more ironic than fans (who obviously very touchy about anything negative said about FFXIV) telling others that they are not the 'reliable' source for information around here.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
I would actually like to direct you to post #40 to answer this response.
Though more accurate, in that it's up to the individual to see who is a more reliable source and, irregardless, their own tastes will come into play and they will come up with their own ideas.
So who is the more reliable source here? the fans who can not take any criticism of the game?
As I said, it's up to the individual. Though If you read my posts, I take criticism just fine. People are welcome to their opinions, but I only assert that it's my own belief that people who have experience in a specific field are more reliable than those who use past experience to judge.
The so called "Been around the block" syndrome. What we humans do when we come across something we do not understand. Or perhaps even veterans of the genre entering their 10+ years of experience and letting that be a judge (to judge a game based on it's genre) and not judge the game in front of them by doing what we did in the past. Playing it in full and coming to our own conclusions without bias to past experiences.
Though just to be fair I would like to post my own inadequacies when it comes to this (not to imply anyone else has any beyond the human nature we most all share). When it came to ArcheAge I did the same thing. I played for a few hours and decided that combat was tremendously boring. Though I have friends who have played hours and hours and hours who say I am wrong. I am inclined to believe that they have more knowledge when it comes to that game (though I have also argued with them that they're wrong as well, so I know the strong urge to do so).
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
I would actually like to direct you to post #40 to answer this response.
Though more accurate, in that it's up to the individual to see who is a more reliable source and, irregardless, their own tastes will come into play and they will come up with their own ideas.
So who is the more reliable source here? the fans who can not take any criticism of the game?
As I said, it's up to the individual. Though If you read my posts, I take criticism just fine. People are welcome to their opinions, but I only assert that it's my own belief that people who have experience in a specific field are more reliable than those who use past experience to judge.
The so called "Been around the block" syndrome. What we humans do when we come across something we do not understand. Or perhaps even veterans of the genre entering their 10+ years of experience and letting that be a judge (to judge a game based on it's genre) and not judge the game in front of them by doing what we did in the past. Playing it in full and coming to our own conclusions without bias to past experiences.
You are lumping everyone into same category here when you say 'people who use past experince to judge' even though several people mentioned that as they leveled up the combat didn't change much. And like i said there are you tube videos released by the devs to show high level combat and easily available.
FFXIV isn't a 10+ year old game. And combat is very similar to it with flashier animations.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
I would actually like to direct you to post #40 to answer this response.
Though more accurate, in that it's up to the individual to see who is a more reliable source and, irregardless, their own tastes will come into play and they will come up with their own ideas.
So who is the more reliable source here? the fans who can not take any criticism of the game?
As I said, it's up to the individual. Though If you read my posts, I take criticism just fine. People are welcome to their opinions, but I only assert that it's my own belief that people who have experience in a specific field are more reliable than those who use past experience to judge.
The so called "Been around the block" syndrome. What we humans do when we come across something we do not understand. Or perhaps even veterans of the genre entering their 10+ years of experience and letting that be a judge (to judge a game based on it's genre) and not judge the game in front of them by doing what we did in the past. Playing it in full and coming to our own conclusions without bias to past experiences.
You are lumping everyone into same category here when you say 'people who use past experince to judge' even though several people mentioned that as they leveled up the combat didn't change much. And like i said there are you tube videos released by the devs to show high level combat and easily available.
By the FFXIV wasn't a 10+ year old game. And combat is very similar to it with flashier animations.
I may have wrote that wrong. Though the intent was to say that people who have 10+ years of experience are using that as a basis to judge all games if it fits into the MMO category. As I read it though, I think it was articulated well enough on my end.
It's not my intention to lump people into the same category (though when talking about actualities as perceived by a person it's my opinion that it should be assumed as such; in my opinion, you just tried to change the subject at hand as the only other subject matter is saying people should just look at videos). Though I've yet to really see anyone who leveled past 15-20 in phase three say that it doesn't get better. They could very well say that, and their opinion up to that level is very valid to them and could be for others.
In addition, I'm pretty sure you yourself know that watching videos is not the same as playing a game (though they don't really have high level combat there, either). Especially when it comes to experience and the like. Again, I would ask this question to you: Who would you feel is more reliable? Someone who looks at a book's cover, or someone who has actually been taught and has experience at the highest level of their craft (I was thinking in terms of surgeons when I wrote that bit, and not of games in general).
I'd like to put in what I edited previously in my last post (as I tend to be a hard judge of myself and read past posts to see if I am wrong in some way):
Though just to be fair I would like to post my own inadequacies when it comes to this (not to imply anyone else has any beyond the human nature we most all share). When it came to ArcheAge I did the same thing. I played for a few hours and decided that combat was tremendously boring. Though I have friends who have played hours and hours and hours who say I am wrong. I am inclined to believe that they have more knowledge when it comes to that game (though I have also argued with them that they're wrong as well, so I know the strong urge to do so).
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Originally posted by Masterfuzzfuzz My mage literally stands in front of monsters a full level or two above me and just spams 1111111111111111111111111111. and I win. And that's it. I'm level 10 but 10 levels of that garbage is pretty dumb. Does it ever change or will I always be able to cast 1 spell and win? This game feels like every other game I've played in the past 4 years, what makes it different?
Sorry but I don't believe you actually played a Mage. Anyone that says this is how you play the mage (THM) hasn't played it.
To start if you press 111, notice I stopped at 3, then you are completely out of mana and have to start auto attacking
So, you may press 111 then 2 (transpose) then 3 (ice) while you build your mana pool back up...at the same time, if you are fighting 2 mobs, pressing 4 (sleep) and if you are getting hit (which you will be) 5 for clear casting...now your mana is back so you hit 2 again (transpose) to get the astral buff then back to 111...oh and if you leveled the CNJ class at all then you are pressing 6 to heal
All of that by level 10. I have NEVER played an MMO that you had to use so many skills as a mage by level 10
Now if you are a healer it is a little slower but not all that much if you are playing it right. You basically have stone and heal which is all you need while leveling in lower levels but if you are doing it RIGHT; you should be switching back and forth in cleric form for magic potency and mana conservation.
In other words. if you find this combat boring then maybe MMO's aren't for you. I can't think of a single MMO where you have to use so many different abilities
Comments
I would wager he's talking about CNJ and how their soloing in the beginning consists of spamming the class' one nuke: Stone. Technically, CNJ also gets Aero, a dot, but it's not really worth using until a forthcoming buff to dots in general.
However, while it's true that there's not much variety if soloing with CNJ...it's a bit silly to expect much else from a class designed primarily for healing. He should have chosen THM if he wanted a 'mage' DD class with more buttons to push - or he could have leveled both classes and used the abilities from both if he really wanted. Clearly he didn't put much effort into learning about the game's design before coming here to complain...
Edit: That said, it's silly to reduce everything going on in an MMO experience to a series of button presses - that goes for any game really.
Any graphical, audio, or gameplay restrictions not seen in other mmos but found in FFXIV can be blamed on one thing.
PS3
I'm sure they could have come up with more than two offensive spells for CNJ to level with. The only offensive spell you can get from THM is Thunder which is basically pointless since spamming stone is more efficient. He could have gotten some of the utility from THM like Surecast at level 8 or Swiftcast at level 26.
Some classes are more boring than others during solo play depending upon your personal preference. However, I don't think anyone could possibly find solo leveling a CNJ very fun or rewarding.
I havent played FF14 but back in FF11 black mage was 'fairly' one dimensional, in that the only interaction with the party was 'hate' or aggression control; I am not sure if skill chains will be returning in FF14 (they were awesome in FF11, which had some of the most complex and challenging pve of any mmo - in fact, i think one negative to the game was that although not 'twitch' based the combat and gameplay was a touch .. harsh)
Recently I have decided the best that can be expected of a MMO game is challenging pVE and a well crafted world ; since new mmos have continually failed to deliver Great PvP , I think the convergence of the genres is no longer possible (or extremely unlikely), plus just playing one game all the time is boring
one thing i will add is that ff11 was a fairly complex game to do right, for example, rather than just provoke and damage for hate, there was the thief who could trick and sneak attack to place more aggro to the tank while also doing increased damage with proper formation, i forget the phrased used to describe the proper set up but it was cool
Played all story in beta, legacy character on Aegis 3 50's, also was very active in early dungeons such as Batraal (Back when teams were being wiped by the ogre fights) and i can honestly state i 100% disagree with you.
I am NOT saying the available content (which is up to rank 35 btw, i'm sick of people touting evaluations about early-mid game of MMO dungeons/experiences) is released to this level.
I am saying however, by even just joining up with old legacy guildies and killing trash 50 mobs in random areas, that the mechanics reworked and potential for strategic/large scale battle that gives you little time to think, is much more enjoyable.
Give SE a chance and what until you complete initial launch content like crystal tower/frontlines to give true merit to how the combat will be in terms of gameplay.
I love my lancer and the new traits/abilities are incredibly fun and tactical. Brd is great as well.
Uh, I found Conjurer fun but I group with friends as much as I can. I still enjoyed going solo though. I think it's all in how you play a game. If people don't like the combat that's okay. Frankly some games you might like I might detest. Different strokes for different folks and other cliches.
I've had more fun in the XIV:ARR betas then I've had in any other MMO in a long, long time. So I'm definitely buying and playing. If you really disliked it as much as it appears OP, then this is not the game for you.
Currently Playing: FFXIV:ARR
Looking Forward to: Wildstar
Right. CNJ is fine for group play, but that's not what I was talking about.
I really give up with you man. You just turn everything personal, every time. Take a glance at the board, or even this topic, and you'll see I'm not simply ranting and raving. It's a pretty common feeling. You're very snide and condescending. I just don't care to argue with you anymore.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
I don't disagree with you. However, if what the producer says is true and things are meant to become more group oriented come 15, then no one should really expect to have to solo CNJ a whole lot beyond that, but it's not even necessary to do that if one is determined not to. I soloed one to about 11 the other day before some buddies joined in to quest as a group, and low-and-behold, things became more interesting for me since I could now make use of my full range of abilities. No rules against grouping up at any level, after all. Also, let's not forget FATEs - one can jump into healing those easily at any level even when no buddies are online if one needs a break from stone-spam.
The OP didn't seem to realize he was even playing a class intended for healing - he would have been advised to go for a THM instead as he was looking for a 'mage' class. Perhaps my expectations just weren't that high or I was too absorbed in the novelty of the game, but I wasn't too troubled by stone-spamming the first handful of levels; then again, I get a kick out of things like healing passing players who are getting low on health and such - my attention is not purely on the combat button presses (an attitude I recommend to the OP as I would anyone btw).
That said, I think there are going to be some changes coming down the line for this, and I agree some would be nice. Aero and Thunder, along with most other dots, are likely (or so I have heard) getting buffed - hopefully to the point where it would be efficient to dot up one mob while nuking another, or some such. It would be nice if they added some sort of synergy between stone and aero as well - maybe add some additional effect to cleric stance to make stone proc aero doing it's full damage upfront or something. Something like that would be an easy way to spice the early levels up without adding superfluous spells that will go unused as a max level healing white mage. Maybe one of us should go post something to that effect on the beta feedback forums?
It's not snide and condescending to say that 1-49 is just a boring grind? I think it is snide to constantly resort to hyperbolic exaggerations and dismissing the notion that the game has a difficulty curve because you insist it is about only spamming a few abilities (despite being told by many people this is not the case).
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
I think the op just plain does not like the game. Sometimes it is hard to find the exact reason why we do not like a game so we nitpick at the first available system we do not like. If you think the grind is boring now...you never played the first one. This game (like all mmos should be imo) is also really meant to be played in a group. Hell OP picked a group based class to play and wondered why it was not as fun solo. That why the have a big variety in mob levels throughout the zones. Ever wondered why there are lvl 16 Gobbue spawns right outside Limsa? I imagine a properly built group of L10-12s could easily do xp chains on those. I never understood why antisocial people play mmos and companies feel like they have to cater to the solo only player.
You want a shitload of buttons...go play Rift. Half of them are useless and duplicates of other skills in the other trees but if it makes it feel "complex" to you, have fun. I played a conj in 1.0 as well as 2.0 and if I thought the mobs I was fighting were too easy, I found harder ones that I had to kite a bit and throw a self heal once in awhile or I grouped up to xp chain. No one says you can't move to a higher zone and kill harder enemies.
Can't please everyone devs so stop trying and find a niche market that will stick with your hard work. I do not want a CoD experience in my MMO.
Current PC Build
http://pcpartpicker.com/b/p8RBD3
Present: Current offerings are low quality or soloable
Past:AoC, DCUO, FFXI,FFXIV 1.0 and ARR,WoW,Fallen Earth, Tabula Rasa, TSW, SWTOR, Rift, Aion, WAR, Darkfall, STO, CoH/CoV, GW2, Diaspora, EQ2, DDO, and a bunch of forgettable ftp games
Hello!
I won't go into my own opinion regarding the matter, but rather refer you to the "Beginner's Guide" I wrote that goes into depth with regards to a lot of things in A Realm Reborn (though mainly just what people need to know, as it isn't all inclusive of what level 20+ systems have).
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/388787/Beginners-Guide-to-A-Realm-Reborn.html
A note with regards to what others may be arguing:
What you will see here on both sides of the argument is what has been going down with just about every game. Except this time around we have people with a bit more experience when it comes to ARR beta than others.
Let me explain that by saying there are those who reached around level 35 in this beta simply by leveling from level on. Then there are those who may have done this, but also acquired old character data from 1.0 to give them the chance to play level 50 characters. Therefore, we are seeing people who only leveled to 5-7 saying with vigor that players saying it improves -- and even going as far to outright say this to people who experienced the content up to 35 and have access to 50 combat -- are outright wrong. One party has experience and stuck around to see things: the introduction of new systems, the changes of others, the Team systems and generally have hundreds of hours of experience. Whereas the other has played (maybe) for a few hours, and make such comments as "I've played this before because I've played MMOs before" and "Once around the block, always around the block."
These are actual statements I saved, though the names of those who said them won't be given as I don't want to turn this into a personal issue rather than relay what is going on. Who is more a reliable source? That's for the individual to decide. Though as a man of the book myself, I'd say (as an example) experts in the specific field of String Theory would be better able to tell you what it is than someone who just has a broad experience across all forms of science.
Opinions are great, but there are situations in which one is more qualified to have them (and that isn't an implication saying that an opinion can be worthless; all opinions are valuable). I would not want the opinion of a CPA accountant when it comes to someone's medical examination; I would want my primary doctor's diagnosis along with a second opinion from another medical expert (we are oft warned against self diagnostics just because we may have seen the starting signs of something before; one of my mentors once said something along the lines of "all opinions are equally valuable, but at the same time are not equal").
Thus we enter into the whole "educated opinion" versus "uneducated opinion" territory with this specific game. The former has vast experience in which to form a guess, the latter uses the past to formulate a guess as they have little experience with the specific item in question.
With that, it's up to the individual to actually play the game from start to finish to see which is true. Both would be fools to say something is a guaranteed success or failure, but the reader's job is to find out who is more reliable and take it with a grain of salt (perhaps under advisory) as they go about finding it out for themselves.
No it doesn't get better. And yes this game is like any other themepark MMO. What is different about it? nothing.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
As someone who has a couple high levels, I actually disagree with Doogiehowser.
The spamming is still there and combat in FFXIV even in its original version was more akin to hitting a pinata till it bursts and drop the candies.. There is no mobility in combat. Yes the animations get more flashier but it is still FFXIV we are talking about. That is how its combat has always been. You can pretty much stand at one place and kill the mob.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Opinions are great! Though I believe those who actually have level 1-35 characters in beta -- as well as level 50 characters that were just transferred -- are more reliable as a source of information.
It's how I wouldn't ask Dr. Phil for an opinion on String Theory; I would go to Dr. Michio Kaku for that. He actually put in the time to understand such and does not formulate an opinion based on past experiences with studies rather than the topic of String Theory on hand (I.E. some just used past experiences and say "played one, played all" whereas another may actually spent significant time in which to formulate their own opinion).
I would actually like to direct you to post #40 to answer this response.
Though more accurate, in that it's up to the individual to see who is a more reliable source and, irregardless, their own tastes will come into play and they will come up with their own ideas.
So who is the more reliable source here? the fans who can not take any criticism of the game?
By the way there are already some official videos of high level combat on you tube. One can see and judge it for themselves. Nothing is more ironic than fans (who obviously very touchy about anything negative said about FFXIV) telling others that they are not the 'reliable' source for information around here.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
As I said, it's up to the individual. Though If you read my posts, I take criticism just fine. People are welcome to their opinions, but I only assert that it's my own belief that people who have experience in a specific field are more reliable than those who use past experience to judge.
The so called "Been around the block" syndrome. What we humans do when we come across something we do not understand. Or perhaps even veterans of the genre entering their 10+ years of experience and letting that be a judge (to judge a game based on it's genre) and not judge the game in front of them by doing what we did in the past. Playing it in full and coming to our own conclusions without bias to past experiences.
Though just to be fair I would like to post my own inadequacies when it comes to this (not to imply anyone else has any beyond the human nature we most all share). When it came to ArcheAge I did the same thing. I played for a few hours and decided that combat was tremendously boring. Though I have friends who have played hours and hours and hours who say I am wrong. I am inclined to believe that they have more knowledge when it comes to that game (though I have also argued with them that they're wrong as well, so I know the strong urge to do so).
You are lumping everyone into same category here when you say 'people who use past experince to judge' even though several people mentioned that as they leveled up the combat didn't change much. And like i said there are you tube videos released by the devs to show high level combat and easily available.
FFXIV isn't a 10+ year old game. And combat is very similar to it with flashier animations.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
I may have wrote that wrong. Though the intent was to say that people who have 10+ years of experience are using that as a basis to judge all games if it fits into the MMO category. As I read it though, I think it was articulated well enough on my end.
It's not my intention to lump people into the same category (though when talking about actualities as perceived by a person it's my opinion that it should be assumed as such; in my opinion, you just tried to change the subject at hand as the only other subject matter is saying people should just look at videos). Though I've yet to really see anyone who leveled past 15-20 in phase three say that it doesn't get better. They could very well say that, and their opinion up to that level is very valid to them and could be for others.
In addition, I'm pretty sure you yourself know that watching videos is not the same as playing a game (though they don't really have high level combat there, either). Especially when it comes to experience and the like. Again, I would ask this question to you: Who would you feel is more reliable? Someone who looks at a book's cover, or someone who has actually been taught and has experience at the highest level of their craft (I was thinking in terms of surgeons when I wrote that bit, and not of games in general).
I'd like to put in what I edited previously in my last post (as I tend to be a hard judge of myself and read past posts to see if I am wrong in some way):
Though just to be fair I would like to post my own inadequacies when it comes to this (not to imply anyone else has any beyond the human nature we most all share). When it came to ArcheAge I did the same thing. I played for a few hours and decided that combat was tremendously boring. Though I have friends who have played hours and hours and hours who say I am wrong. I am inclined to believe that they have more knowledge when it comes to that game (though I have also argued with them that they're wrong as well, so I know the strong urge to do so).
What it this Doogie?
This FFXIV ARR piss in your cheerios, mate? Goodness!
Sorry but I don't believe you actually played a Mage. Anyone that says this is how you play the mage (THM) hasn't played it.
To start if you press 111, notice I stopped at 3, then you are completely out of mana and have to start auto attacking
So, you may press 111 then 2 (transpose) then 3 (ice) while you build your mana pool back up...at the same time, if you are fighting 2 mobs, pressing 4 (sleep) and if you are getting hit (which you will be) 5 for clear casting...now your mana is back so you hit 2 again (transpose) to get the astral buff then back to 111...oh and if you leveled the CNJ class at all then you are pressing 6 to heal
All of that by level 10. I have NEVER played an MMO that you had to use so many skills as a mage by level 10
Now if you are a healer it is a little slower but not all that much if you are playing it right. You basically have stone and heal which is all you need while leveling in lower levels but if you are doing it RIGHT; you should be switching back and forth in cleric form for magic potency and mana conservation.
In other words. if you find this combat boring then maybe MMO's aren't for you. I can't think of a single MMO where you have to use so many different abilities