what I dont get is the fascination with full loot. Why hasnt a game come up with a method of rewarding the killer greatly, while not punishing the dieing party so extreme.
why isnt there a game, where like for example (just rough numbers) the highest level mob drops 1000 gold (insert random currency or craft resource) but the player kills drop 10000 gold or some really useful crafting resource. It would encourage pvp, and more those of us (myself) more inclined to get involved.
The reason alot of us "carebears" hate full loot is cause a lot of times if you join a game late you are screwed, and there is such a stigma of corpse camping, that it just isnt worth the hassle
Because if you don't take stuff away from the losing player, then you are basically dublicating items.
what are you talking about? Im not saying you get a copy of their gear. What if they dropped a key to a lootable chest, some currency, or a crafting resource, nothing is duplicating
you then have people intentionally allowing themselves to be killed by friends just to attain these items. Runescape did that when they took away full loot and rewarded you with a possible expensive random drop and that is exactly what happened. We killed each other for possible drops and then switched
Originally posted by Komandor The only thing that could really attract the hardcore crowd in this game is some good old, realistic PVP. If they go the carebare way and limit player looting and stealing from other players, this game will flop. They basically need to make a better Darkfall.
Is that what their goal is? Are they trying to attract a 'hardcore' crowd?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
The only thing that could really attract the hardcore crowd in this game is some good old, realistic PVP.
If they go the carebare way and limit player looting and stealing from other players, this game will flop.
They basically need to make a better Darkfall.
Does a game need hardcore players to succeed? I mean, is that the only way to succeed as a game, or do you mean it is the only way to succeed in attracting you?
The only thing that could really attract the hardcore crowd in this game is some good old, realistic PVP.
If they go the carebare way and limit player looting and stealing from other players, this game will flop.
They basically need to make a better Darkfall.
Right, because you're crowd has done such a fine job of ensuring the successes of..... what games exactly?
Every. single. last. game. that has been catered to you people has failed, and usually failed horribly. The way things are going DF:UW doesn't seem far behind either.
If you're going to try and keep playing that card, and least stick to your guns and actually support these games, instead of whining like children.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
I wonder if anyone has ever told the OP that the "carebears" outnumber the "hardcore" players, since most people in reality play game to have fun not swing their e-peen, the only reason it seems that "hardcore" players seem to be I larger numbers is cause they are to only ones whe are very vocal for the most part.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
The only thing that could really attract the hardcore crowd in this game is some good old, realistic PVP.
If they go the carebare way and limit player looting and stealing from other players, this game will flop.
They basically need to make a better Darkfall.
Right, because you're crowd has done such a fine job of ensuring the successes of..... what games exactly?
Every. single. last. game. that has been catered to you people has failed, and usually failed horribly. The way things are going DF:UW doesn't seem far behind either.
If you're going to try and keep playing that card, and least stick to your guns and actually support these games, instead of whining like children.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
The only thing that could really attract the hardcore crowd in this game is some good old, realistic PVP.
If they go the carebare way and limit player looting and stealing from other players, this game will flop.
They basically need to make a better Darkfall.
Right, because you're crowd has done such a fine job of ensuring the successes of..... what games exactly?
Every. single. last. game. that has been catered to you people has failed, and usually failed horribly. The way things are going DF:UW doesn't seem far behind either.
If you're going to try and keep playing that card, and least stick to your guns and actually support these games, instead of whining like children.
It's rather humorous that he says things like Tram killed UO, yet he doesn't realize it was the players like himself who were destroying UO from the beginning, the so called hardcore drive off more players than most other factors outside of problematic programming. It's his ilk that have kept dev's away from creating meaningful player control over an environment.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by flizzer You can have this as long as I get a completely PvE server. If the only way I can experience this game is with the PvP gank crowd, then I would pass.
I"m interested in a massive multiplayer online version of the game series Ultima. that seems to be the vision of the game. Don't reccall ever wanting to "gank" another party in an ultima game.
I find it fascinating that people play MMORPGs but wish to play only against NPCs and not other players. You're supposed to be this big bad warrior fighting for your faction... only you restrict that to the pre-programmed scripted NPCs that you basically are assured success against.
They need to erase the concept of PVE and just create a world in which anyone can attack anyone... you know... like real life?
Why so much hate for PVE? I love PVE more than PVP. I've never really got into PVP probably because when I started gaming on the computer as well some of the first games I ran into were EQ and Counterstrike. Well all the noob this and noob that talk on CS never interested me. I'm not a big trash talker it seems pointless to me.
Also I love the plot and background story EQ had so when I would be in groups and hang out with people after whatever I did during the day it never felt like a grid ever. EQ had a lot of backstory and the zones were fun to explore. But then again I love RPGS and such over fighting games and the like.
Not to mention I don't have a top of the line computer, but not a bad one either. But I'm not dissing PVP either maybe when I can build my own comp I'll give PVP another chance. I still wish I could have played Auto Assault and EVE Online back to back but AA got canned
Because the MMO crowd has attracted too many FPS folk who have no true concept of RPGs. Enjoy your genre, leave our genre alone.
To do this in any known way currently would be to doom a game to a Niche community.
This is why Camelot Unchained flat out said they will be a Niche game.
With that said, it depends on how the game is made and what differences there are that made the alarming failure rate that other games that tried to do this has.
Not to mention that this will be a B2P game, so that means many more people who would grief and chase away others as they won't have to pay a subscription just to get their enjoyment out of making another person miserable for the day.
Ultimately if they want to go beyond their five planned expansions, this at it's core would probably be the worst decision (or maybe the best, depending on how they treat crafting and if you are able to gather resources like in UO). Though they have mentioned something about having specific areas where you can gank, while having said areas contain something that most all players would want to get to encourage the risk of going there.
But then again, no one would go there by themselves and it will be a case of a guild going there to get it once a week or so, and just tearing up any potential ganker who wants to try and take out a low level.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Roguey antics are confirmed for SotA. How hardcore remains to be seen.
The beauty of SotA is if you don't want to deal with griefing, then play offline or play with friends only. The game gives you many choices in who you choose to share the world with.
The only thing that could really attract the hardcore crowd in this game is some good old, realistic PVP.
If they go the carebare way and limit player looting and stealing from other players, this game will flop.
They basically need to make a better Darkfall.
Do you realize that Ultima Online was losing subscribers before the introduction of Trammel?
It was Trammel that saved the game and made it even more of a success.
Ultima Online didn't peak until 2 YEARS AFTER TRAMMEL. The population almost doubled because of Trammel.
I know it is because of Trammel, because the game was losing a ton of subscribers due to the griefing. I remember reading about the dev's decisions to introduce Trammel, how the majority of players loved it, and the dev talking about how it stopped the dramatic loss of subs and reversed it to a very large gain in subscribers.
There is a difference between, "If this game doesn't have FFA PvP, it will fail and go bankrupt." and "If this game doesn't have FFA PvP, I personally will not like it."
The latter is true, but the former is the opposite of true.
The only thing that could really attract the hardcore crowd in this game is some good old, realistic PVP.
If they go the carebare way and limit player looting and stealing from other players, this game will flop.
They basically need to make a better Darkfall.
Do you realize that Ultima Online was losing subscribers before the introduction of Trammel?
It was Trammel that saved the game and made it even more of a success.
Ultima Online didn't peak until 2 YEARS AFTER TRAMMEL. The population almost doubled because of Trammel.
I know it is because of Trammel, because the game was losing a ton of subscribers due to the griefing. I remember reading about the dev's decisions to introduce Trammel, how the majority of players loved it, and the dev talking about how it stopped the dramatic loss of subs and reversed it to a very large gain in subscribers.
There is a difference between, "If this game doesn't have FFA PvP, it will fail and go bankrupt." and "If this game doesn't have FFA PvP, I personally will not like it."
The latter is true, but the former is the opposite of true.
UO did not do better after introduction of Trammel. Trammel killed UO. Carebears don't count anyway.
ehh if it has the looting and i can get killed at level 1 i probably would not play the game. And the "carebearing" thing to call it. If i where to pvp i would like to no my time matters, so i don't have to worry excessibley about losing gear. If you create a zone for that high risk thats fine, but if its just ffa pvp around the entire globe, it makes it harder for someone that hasn't played one of these games to be interested in them.
Originally posted by VikingGamer UO as originally released proved exactly the opposite. Try again.
There was no alternative. Try again.
Yep UO released when there was nothing else even like it and I totally loved the game but there were aholes who found enjoyment in making others miserable because they could. Go figure? that was 1998 a whole new generation of self entitled bafoons has been hatched since then who think games designed for role playing happy folks are supposed be there pvp stomping grounds because that's where they can cause the most grief. Strange times
Originally posted by stvnkrs10 You guys should really read up on the game before posting. It has been said many times there will be a pvp element for those that want it. the OPO option allows for those in to pvp to only see pvp players and pve players to only see pve players. That way both types get the experience they want in the same world. The way you play the game affects the people you see around you.
that sounds really cool actually :<, i don't like being forced to pvp, i rather do on my terms, since their giving options i'm a bit more willing to try this game
Comments
you then have people intentionally allowing themselves to be killed by friends just to attain these items. Runescape did that when they took away full loot and rewarded you with a possible expensive random drop and that is exactly what happened. We killed each other for possible drops and then switched
Is that what their goal is? Are they trying to attract a 'hardcore' crowd?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Free to play = content updates for the cash shop. Buy to play = content updates for the cash shop.
Subscription = Actual content updates!
Yes i totally agree except the part where you compare to Darkfall that to me is a boring game without any content.
Compare to a good game instead like old Ultima Online before Age of Shadows ruined the game february 2003.
Does a game need hardcore players to succeed? I mean, is that the only way to succeed as a game, or do you mean it is the only way to succeed in attracting you?
It takes one to know one.
Right, because you're crowd has done such a fine job of ensuring the successes of..... what games exactly?
Every. single. last. game. that has been catered to you people has failed, and usually failed horribly. The way things are going DF:UW doesn't seem far behind either.
If you're going to try and keep playing that card, and least stick to your guns and actually support these games, instead of whining like children.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
100% Agreed.
Try again OP..
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
It's rather humorous that he says things like Tram killed UO, yet he doesn't realize it was the players like himself who were destroying UO from the beginning, the so called hardcore drive off more players than most other factors outside of problematic programming. It's his ilk that have kept dev's away from creating meaningful player control over an environment.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I"m interested in a massive multiplayer online version of the game series Ultima. that seems to be the vision of the game. Don't reccall ever wanting to "gank" another party in an ultima game.
Because the MMO crowd has attracted too many FPS folk who have no true concept of RPGs. Enjoy your genre, leave our genre alone.
To do this in any known way currently would be to doom a game to a Niche community.
This is why Camelot Unchained flat out said they will be a Niche game.
With that said, it depends on how the game is made and what differences there are that made the alarming failure rate that other games that tried to do this has.
Not to mention that this will be a B2P game, so that means many more people who would grief and chase away others as they won't have to pay a subscription just to get their enjoyment out of making another person miserable for the day.
Ultimately if they want to go beyond their five planned expansions, this at it's core would probably be the worst decision (or maybe the best, depending on how they treat crafting and if you are able to gather resources like in UO). Though they have mentioned something about having specific areas where you can gank, while having said areas contain something that most all players would want to get to encourage the risk of going there.
But then again, no one would go there by themselves and it will be a case of a guild going there to get it once a week or so, and just tearing up any potential ganker who wants to try and take out a low level.
The beauty of SotA is if you don't want to deal with griefing, then play offline or play with friends only. The game gives you many choices in who you choose to share the world with.
Do you realize that Ultima Online was losing subscribers before the introduction of Trammel?
It was Trammel that saved the game and made it even more of a success.
Ultima Online didn't peak until 2 YEARS AFTER TRAMMEL. The population almost doubled because of Trammel.
I know it is because of Trammel, because the game was losing a ton of subscribers due to the griefing. I remember reading about the dev's decisions to introduce Trammel, how the majority of players loved it, and the dev talking about how it stopped the dramatic loss of subs and reversed it to a very large gain in subscribers.
There is a difference between, "If this game doesn't have FFA PvP, it will fail and go bankrupt." and "If this game doesn't have FFA PvP, I personally will not like it."
The latter is true, but the former is the opposite of true.
UO did not do better after introduction of Trammel. Trammel killed UO. Carebears don't count anyway.
Keep on rockin'!
-Oc
Yeah, what are you going to do about it?
There was no alternative. Try again.
Yep UO released when there was nothing else even like it and I totally loved the game but there were aholes who found enjoyment in making others miserable because they could. Go figure? that was 1998 a whole new generation of self entitled bafoons has been hatched since then who think games designed for role playing happy folks are supposed be there pvp stomping grounds because that's where they can cause the most grief. Strange times
that sounds really cool actually :<, i don't like being forced to pvp, i rather do on my terms, since their giving options i'm a bit more willing to try this game