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Niche games are the only way to get better games
asdar
Member UncommonPosts: 662
It's more true than not that any game that satisfies me won't satisfy you. I think that's ok, I think that what you want is what is ruining MMO's and it's ok that you think the same about my game.
If a dev tries to satisfy everyone we're going to get garbage. It's going to have levels and classes and it's not going to be too hard because you don't want frustrated people and it's going to be big and have both PvP and PvE. It's going to be tab target and solo friendly. This is GW2, and I don't hate GW2, I played two characters to max level. It's just like they wanted it to be, something that would get the most money they could.
What I want to see is games that don't try to cover all their bases. I want devs to make the games they want to play. Eve is like that, it's a niche game and it's successful, Darkfall is like that and while it's not as successful at least it's true to it's nature. I think D&D is also niche going for pure dungeon and not following the pattern, and TSW is another niche game that was well done.
These games aren't the best out there, but they define a direction. I hope that we see new games that aren't WoW killers, but could care less about WoW.
So Support the Niche games! Even if they might need a bit of dev love to get polished.
Asdar
Comments
EvE isn't really Niche, they have a lot of content for lots of play styles and personalities. And I would reckon for EvE to be as good as it is it would need the broad scoop(non-niche) that it has to simulate it's purpose of being a market simulation.
EvE is just in the inconvient place of playing a boring inhumane space ship, and the cost similar mechanics done with humans/terrain/similar being too costly to do "well".
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irZ-159xsZY&list=PL8B35CA833DCDA9A4&index=6
Jimquisition on the topic
They started off niche, and have expanded bit by bit, making sure every new gameplay type they add is solid and works with the overall design without hurting the game.
That is pretty much the opposite of how WoW and other clones work. They toss in half assed features just to say they have it, even if it dramatically negatively impacts their game.
Yes niche really has been the only way to go for a long time. The only real long term successful MMOs have been the originals (DAoC, AC, UO) that all served a specific niche and were radically different from one another. Now Eve and Darkfall are becoming success stories for the same reasons. Meanwhile games like AoC, Rift, and all the other clones collapse.
So I read your post OP. And I was going to write something clever, but when I read that you are saying that Gw2 is WoW I was like fuck it this guy is an attention whore douche
just my 2 cents
GW2 is WoW, and definitely not niche. I think GW was niche, but not an MMO. GW2 is well done, but there's nothing new there except for the B2P model. A good game to play if you can't find a game you're passionate about. I don't see how mentioning GW2 makes me an attention whore, but I won't mention it again.
Asdar
....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!
Please humor me, how is GW2 like WoW xD
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
the boring inhuman ship is active part of the game, but incarna had so much potential, and it was scrapped to just a character editor and an effing captain quarter, CCP should have kept improving, but nooooo....they had to cater to the biggest audience. better to play internet spaceships than internet CAPTAINS! in spaceships.....
now going on topic, i agree with the OP, for now the most interesting titles seem to go fron indie developers who want to do something different to what the big industry offers. just look for example, The Repopulation.
The thing about niche is that it means that it isn't for everyone...Personally I found TSW to be one of the worst MMOs I ever played......Between the cutscenes and vocie overs half the time I didnt even feel like I was playing but rather watching a movie....ANd yes most of the games released are not niche and follow the same exact themepark on rails pattern that many of us are completely tired of......ALso most are way too easy and cater to the lowest common denominator of gamer.
E.g. Neverwinter - small group dungeons, ps2 - rvr
But for a sub game you have to have a bit of everything.
That's where swtor went wrong, sub game, but only really appeals to solo pve / story. Tsw almost the same but it has very good dungeons.
TSW is not really niche. It didn't have a niche budget or marketing campaign. It tried to please too many people with half assed MMO features instead of being a really solid singleplayer game. And it shows. And it's a themepark, those never last long.
Great video and a good point. It's even worse in a MMO sense because typically even a hardcore gamer will only devote time towards one MMO for a long period of time while a hardcore gamer who plays other games besides MMOs may play a wide variety of games each year. When the MMO market gets oversaturated like it is now you get two kinds of people: 1. People who stick to the MMO of their choice, usually their first (which more often than not is WoW due to it being the most popular). 2. People who constantly jump from new MMO to new MMO seeking improvements over older MMOs, but ultimately playing games similar to what they were playing.
What I do not agree with is the OP's examples. Sure, maybe GW2 spread itself too thin by trying to appeal to a wide market like WoW, but the game is at least unique enough in just about every aspect besides being a fantasy themepark that I wouldn't necessarily use it as an example. On the other hand I don't find TSW to be niche at all. Sure, it has some unique concepts that might appeal to unique demographics (the whole ARG element and puzzle solving), but it does exactly what GW2 and other non-niche games you mention by trying to appeal to all audiences The game has PvP for the sake of having PvP and has a traditional combat system (which I find dull) you find in other MMOs, is your typical dungeon loot grind, and carried over much larger amount of concepts from WoW directly than GW2 has.
On the other hand you might consider Darkfall a niche game, but there have been plenty of games that have released with full loot PvP, a PvP focus, and sandbox elements that I consider this genre of games just as oversaturated as the tab-target themepark genre. EVE is more niche than Darkfall and that's why it's seen some success as while it's similar to Darkfall, it came out first, is Sci-Fi themed, and has a focus on trading moreso than Darkfall. When I hear the word niche I think of games that are totally unique and a genre of their own, like the original Planetside or Puzzle Pirates.
GW2 has more in common with WoW than with GW1 !
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TSW wasn't fun for me but that doesn't mean I fear funcom. IT's odd to say people fear funcom.
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https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
It has quests, gathering, crafting, and dungeons. I guess pretty much every MMO is WoW. OP, you guys are welcome to enjoy your low-budget Kickstarter MMOs or other high quality niche games such as Darkfall or Mortal Online, but don't pretend that they're the "cure" for an ailing industry.
I think the definitiion of "niche" is:
"A small enough title that I just don't mention playing it very often, because I do not care what the various fanboys think of me for not playing their favorite games."
Abbreviated to "disinterested in the verdict of the Herd", maybe.
Niche games (if they are lucky) will survive as a cult classic played by a handful of gamers that wax poetic about the superior quality, while others shake their head and wonder WTF they are talking about. Devs of bigger AAA games, however, will use pieces of these games to pull from and make larger games that appeal to a wider audience. Don't dilute yourself into thinking that niche games are the superior, at best, the lot-of'em are simply breeding grounds for bigger ideas.
QFT!!! ++++
+∞
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
That assumes every niche game exists in a vacuum.
You can integrate modern elements like social media into a niche title just as you might do so in a larger title, and in the long run it might actually make a better social web for gamers. Titles that individually experiment and refine a concept as a niche, and get disseminated across a network of other niche titles.
Or just consider it the notion of inter-gaming. Multiple games that cater to very different play styles and experiences, but the network which supports it is capable of sharing certain elements of each game between one another.
We see some of these traits already popping up in modern systems, like the new one being presented by Steam.
Upcoming titles that are rather niche in concept, such as Camelot Unchained, are going to face this situation. With a user base that is catered to via a core set of game mechanics and supporting elements, their social user base will remain a pocket.
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