Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Wizards and Their "Orbs"
Grym
Member UncommonPosts: 301
in Neverwinter
The Wizard. One of the most cherished and powerful of classes within the AD&D construct. In Neverwinter Online, they are still fun to play. But... where the hell is my Wand of Wonders? Where is my Staff of the Archmagi? In the place of historically recognized weapons of bad-assery, we are given floating balls. Really? Melee classes are given weapons with decent graphics. Big shiny items for all to see and admire. Control Wizards run around with a perpetual floating thought bubble over their heads.
Just sayin...
(My son speaking to his Japanese Grandmother) " Sorry Obaba, I don't speak Japanese, I only speak human."
Comments
it just another action rpg clone with no soul and a famous IP slapped on top of it.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Except that Orbs are a mainstay weapon of the 4th edition where it gets its inspiration from. They will probably add the other weapon types to future classes to make classes more distinguishable.
They have immense attention to detail with the IP. All the skills, classes etc are directly from the 4th edition. You are either stuck in the past or a troll who probably never played tabletop DnD.
They have immense attention to detail with the IP. All the skills, classes etc are directly from the 4th edition. You are either stuck in the past or a troll who probably never played tabletop DnD.
ive played a lot of tabletop DnD in the past. this game does nothing to replicate the experience. it's invictus with dnd names slapped on everything.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Have to agree with Azmundai. If you think about it, you can take NW and replace many of the classes with different cliche, fantasy/mythological/historical tropes and essentially get the same game. Example: instead, switch the trickster rogue with a ninja and the cleric with some kinda combat medic. Next, reskin the setting and bam, different game aesthetically but without any changes to the mechanics of the game/gameplay. Bottom line, NW doesn't replicate much of the depth typical to D&D, even according to DDO standards, and essentially plays as if a fantasy skin were placed over an action game.
I'm guessing by skill you meant ability. My trickster rogue has no typical D&D skills like lockpicking, perception, tumbling, etc. They implemented stealth but it has no skill value (there are no checks made against it that I know of). I admit I don't know if 4e plays without the relevant skills associated with the D&D classes that I'm familiar with. That being said, if they've really watered D&D down that far when designing 4e, why even bother?
Nah 4E still has skills, they slimmed some down so things like Thievery encompasses anything trap related and similar conditions.
And yeah, only skill players get is the single class bound one they start with.
As for abilities, they are not a direct translation as there are those that approximate 4E versions, but modify them for direct combat use or alter their effects.
In general it's better to regard it as a vague approximation of the tabletop than an actual adaptation.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Maybe because it's (well D&D is) one of the biggest inspirations behind the MMORPG genre? Not to mention RPG's (video-games) in general.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Very good arguement, and I agree in part. You're correct, the same could be said about any number of rpgs/mmorpgs, but with NW the feeling is accentuated rather than cleverly concealed.
First off, let's look at the powers. In 4th Edition there are 4 types: At-Will, Encounter, Daily, and Utility. Neverwinter has one of these: At-Will. The others are "listed" as such, but I have used both "encounter" and "daily" powers multiple times in 1 "encounter" and definitely more than once in a "day."
From the wiki cited above for the Wizard (using just the pre-paragon path abilities):
At-Will:
Encounter:
Daily:
No "Utility" abilities found in Neverwinter. Understandable, as most of these have no bearing on killing things.
Now, I am just looking at the base Player's Handbook. These abilities may have appeared in one of the many, many other books released by Wizards of the Coast. I am also just looking at the basic "Wizard" class in 4th Edition D&D and comparing that to a "Control Wizard" in Neverwinter.
Are you certain of your statement?
[EDIT]
Forgot to add "Feats." Totally gone from Neverwinter. Or are they implemented in another way?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
In their defense the daily skills when first released in NW back in beta where on a pretty long cool down and people complained so they changed them to be used more often. There have actually been many changes since the early stages, it did resemble much more of what dnd is in the beginning. There was a lot of complaining and what not so many things got changed.
Just an FYI for some people for some silly reason thing DND would work in its raw form put into MMO... it wouldn't, few would actually want to play a slower paced game like that. Add in that its 4E and you just dropped the number even greater.
I love DnD 3.5 or pathfinder, I really do, but I'm not stupid enough to expect it to 'fly' so easily in a game. While they could of did more to make it feel DnD, the closer they push it to be like the game, the worst off it would be in getting attention and willing people. People want action and combat, things that DnD/Pathfinder do NOT promote very well. DnD involves a much slower based system. DnD will naturally push a slower based environment that players just aren't really into. Even with automatic checking of details (which can easily be mitigated with a wiki, mind you) your just going to be pushing a slower environment for fighting, and of that you would want those advance options like intimidating enemies or even trying diplomacy, or heck using combat in inventive ways like using the environment to 'trip' an enemy or many of the other combat maneuvers that would just further complicate things.
Its just not going to happen for any game trying to go for a large player-base. DnD inspired much of the fantasy gaming genre we know today, but theres a big difference between inspiring and trying to mimic it, and its one that with games and limitations is very difficult to pull off, and even if it does get pulled off it can easily be counter productive in gaining attention from main stream gamers who want faster pace gameplay.
I was addressing the belief that "Every single skill is taken directly from 4th Edition."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Well considering that this particular wizard is actually called "Control Wizard" as opposed to just "Wizard" implies (to me anyway) that there are different types of wizards. Kinda like Guardian Fighter vs. Great Weapon Fighter. , both are Fighters but wield different weapons.
So i would imagine the entire plan behind this naming convention was to add more classes over time. Maybe those will have wands and staves instead of balls. Also there's the Paragon paths, which is clearly not finished. If you hit lvl 30 you will realize with great disappointment that there isn't actually any Paragon classes and only a "Coming Soon" sign. So you are forced to pick the Stormbringer Paragon (the only choice). I would also have thought, if Cryptic actually finished this, there might have been chance that based on Paragon path you would use a different weapon.
Thought everything in Neverwinter had to be approved by Wizards of the Coast?
Then again guess players/gamers know better then they do?
Does 4th ed. do levels the same? I remember you were either a god at lvl 20 or at least hanging out with them. Here you can get to 50 right?