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Do I really need an SSD drive as well as a HDD?

NikbeezyNikbeezy Member Posts: 10
I have heard yes and no from different people. I am planning on mostly just gaming with the occasional movie watching and microsoft word for typing documents. I already have a 1 TB Seagate barracuda HDD. Any thoughts? What are the pros and cons?
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Comments

  • RobokappRobokapp Member RarePosts: 6,208

    will you fill that 1 tb in your lifetime ? or will you toss it in the garbage when you get your next computer 5 years from now ?

     

    I think you got all you need....

    image

  • AlucardlbAlucardlb Member Posts: 83

    A SSD for your OS and other important programs, a normal HDD for storage

     

     

  • NikbeezyNikbeezy Member Posts: 10
    Alright so what is the smallest i would want to go on an SSD? I dont plan on using very many programs besides microsoft word  and some antivirus/anti malware stuff. MYycomputer is just mainly for gaming, so i suppose i would just install microsoft office,OS, and that is probably about it.
  • darkspriggandarkspriggan Member CommonPosts: 20
    If you care about load times in games and windows, then yes, get an SSD. If you couldn't give a damn less, then don't get an SSD. Simple as that.
  • AtmaDarkwolfAtmaDarkwolf Member UncommonPosts: 353

    Price of SSD drives are dropping as larger ones are hitting the market. A 50-100ish gig drive won't set u back too far, and it will last a great deal of time if you use it as you want(for OS and main 'system' programs)

     

    One piece of advice is do NOT use it for a torrent slave. LOL this will wear it out much faster than normal.

     

    Best to think of a SSD as a oversized usb drive, since basically thats exactly what it is.

  • darkspriggandarkspriggan Member CommonPosts: 20
    Originally posted by Nikbeezy
    Alright so what is the smallest i would want to go on an SSD? I dont plan on using very many programs besides microsoft word  and some antivirus/anti malware stuff. MYycomputer is just mainly for gaming, so i suppose i would just install microsoft office,OS, and that is probably about it.

    You've got the wrong idea here.

    All an SSD does is read and write really fast, so it just loads things rapidly. You'd use your SSD for basically all of your programs and games, and store all of your movies, music, etc. on your HDD.

    The lowest you'd probably want to go is ~120gig SSD's, so long as you're storing everything that's not a program on your HDD.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Member CommonPosts: 10,910


    Originally posted by darkspriggan
    Originally posted by Nikbeezy Alright so what is the smallest i would want to go on an SSD? I dont plan on using very many programs besides microsoft word  and some antivirus/anti malware stuff. MYycomputer is just mainly for gaming, so i suppose i would just install microsoft office,OS, and that is probably about it.
    You've got the wrong idea here.

    All an SSD does is read and write really fast, so it just loads things rapidly. You'd use your SSD for basically all of your programs and games, and store all of your movies, music, etc. on your HDD.

    The lowest you'd probably want to go is ~120gig SSD's, so long as you're storing everything that's not a program on your HDD.




    I've got over 130gb of just applications in my Program Files directory. I would have to get a bigger SSD for that to work.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • ChuckanarChuckanar Member UncommonPosts: 210
    I am not going to bother with an SSD for another year at least I figure.. Why? they fail to often still. Their stability and reliability are not good enough for me what waste money on. My friends jumped onto the latest thing and jason has already replaced his twice due to it just going epic fail. I understand they are getting much more reliable and fast.. but I will just wait a bit longer and then buy. Just my opinion on it. Do some research on the brand and warranty of it before you buy is also a good idea.
  • darkspriggandarkspriggan Member CommonPosts: 20
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by darkspriggan

    Originally posted by Nikbeezy Alright so what is the smallest i would want to go on an SSD? I dont plan on using very many programs besides microsoft word  and some antivirus/anti malware stuff. MYycomputer is just mainly for gaming, so i suppose i would just install microsoft office,OS, and that is probably about it.
    You've got the wrong idea here.

     

    All an SSD does is read and write really fast, so it just loads things rapidly. You'd use your SSD for basically all of your programs and games, and store all of your movies, music, etc. on your HDD.

    The lowest you'd probably want to go is ~120gig SSD's, so long as you're storing everything that's not a program on your HDD.



    I've got over 130gb of just applications in my Program Files directory. I would have to get a bigger SSD for that to work.

     

    Well then get one with a size that'll fit your needs. I was merely stating my opinion on the lowest a person should buy. I personally have a 240gig for instance.

  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,246
    You should always have a backup not on the SSD to prevent data loss on a crash.  A good solution that is starting to crop up is cheaper cloud storage to save your important documents to.  Using something like DropBox or Sky Drive to backup about 10GB of data.  Realistically you should only use up to 80% of an SSDs capacity.  If the SSD is less than 500 GB, than chances are you will fill it.  All SSD drives will die sooner than an HDD, that is without question.  My last SSD died in the expected time frame.
  • darkspriggandarkspriggan Member CommonPosts: 20
    Originally posted by Chuckanar
    I am not going to bother with an SSD for another year at least I figure.. Why? they fail to often still. Their stability and reliability are not good enough for me what waste money on. My friends jumped onto the latest thing and jason has already replaced his twice due to it just going epic fail. I understand they are getting much more reliable and fast.. but I will just wait a bit longer and then buy. Just my opinion on it. Do some research on the brand and warranty of it before you buy is also a good idea.

    That last sentence is pretty important there. If I recall it was the OCZ Vertex series SSD's that starting dying all over the place wasn't it? Given, I haven't had a single problem with my Patriot Pyro. Definitely do your research before you buy an SSD to make sure you're getting something reliable.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,094

    It depends.  When you ask your computer to do something, do you want it to do what you asked right away, or are you fine with the computer making you wait for a while and then eventually getting around to doing what you asked?  If you want the former, then you need an SSD.  If you don't mind constantly waiting every time you ask your computer to do anything, then you don't.

    You're probably so used to constantly having to wait that you don't even realize that it doesn't have to be that way.  If you get an SSD, it seems nice and the computer just works.  Then if you go back to a hard drive, it's painful to go without the SSD.  It's kind of like if you get used to having a computer that doesn't crash, you don't constantly stop to think, hey, the computer didn't crash today.  But if you then go back to using Windows ME and get a blue screen per day or so, you really miss having a stable computer.

  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG Member UncommonPosts: 1,387

    Ideally yes.

     

    SSD has a lot less write-life then regular HDD. SSD is good for running things that don't change a lot (ie. OS, apps that you aren't likely to uninstall for the life of the disk).

     

    Also, HDD is cheap to replace so might as well use that for data storage.

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,059

    You don't need anything better than a bicycle and a bus token to get around town, but it sure is nice driving in a Luxury Sedan.

    That's kinda the difference.

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,059


    Originally posted by Cleffy
    All SSD drives will die sooner than an HDD, that is without question.  My last SSD died in the expected time frame.

    With regard to all the reliability comments on SSDs (not just this one):

    True, there is a limit on the number of write cycles SSDs can perform. With tactics such as over-provisioning and wear-leveling, this number is very, very high. So high that a typical consumer work load won't reach it in several (10+) years (although some industrial loads, such as rapidly changing high volume databases, could conceivably reach).

    Apart from the write limit, which is a physical property of the type of NAND used in SSDs, the rest of the device is basically up to manufacturing differences: how well the unit dissipates heat and tolerates repetitive thermal stress, how well the unit is physically constructed and engineered, how the firmware is programmed, etc.

    Many SSDs have 5-year guarantees now. 2 years ago, this wasn't the case. Reliability has gone way up in SSDs - as you would expect it to, with no moving parts, lower power use, and many refinements in the controllers and firmware, we are seeing devices that finally can outlast their mechanical counterparts.

    It's very much vendor-by-vendor, so some research is warranted, but I don't think the statement that ~every~ SSD will be outlived by a HDD is true any longer. In fact, I would say we have probably reached the tipping point where the opposite may start to be the case, and eventually, the norm. SSD technology has been evolving so rapidly lately, that it's hard to find a valid longevity study, because we haven't even got 5 years on the first generation of SSDs yet, and we're already on the 5th or 6th generation by now, and they have been improving in reliability greatly with each generation.

    The most comprehensive study I could find was already 2 years old, and barely scratched the first couple of generations of readily available SSDs:
    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-reliability-failure-rate,2923.html
    It focuses on Intel-branded SSDs (since those were among the earliest. and many of the datasets the analyze are from larger commercial installations that tend to use name-brand gear), but mentions some other interesting facets as well that haven't been totally rendered obsolete yet.

    It's easy to forget that HDDs don't have that great of a lifespan either - most people have HDDs that are 3-4-5-6, maybe even 7 years old and haven't had too many problems. But many people have them die within 6 months. Hard drives die all the time. A typical hard drive has a lifespan of about 5 years - they are pretty reliable up until about 3 years: after that, the chance of failure escalates rapidly with age. And if you drop one - it's probably a goner, especially if it was powered one.

    This is also a bit dated report, but HDD technology hasn't changed all that much recently: we have some enterprise level drives filled with helium, and a bit larger platters, but that's about it:
    http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/hdd-reliability-storelab,review-31968.html

  • HokieHokie Member UncommonPosts: 1,063
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    will you fill that 1 tb in your lifetime ? or will you toss it in the garbage when you get your next computer 5 years from now ?

     

    I think you got all you need....

    But if he starts recording/frapsing and what not, he will eat up that 1Tb in no time.

    This is what I use mainly for Planet Side 2. And I havent really started messing around with Dxtory which can really eat up the GB.

    An SSD drive is great for quick transfer of video.

    As you can see I have 223 GB of game footage I have to edit. What I normally do is copy and paste from E to F drive and use my F drive to snip/edit/combine. And then my G drive to store/review and hold for more editing. F is also where I have lots of music and audio from movies that I can use to favor up my videos.

    image

    C drive is all games.

    So just in the course of collecting and being A.D.D. about playing games he can easily use up a Tb.

    I use up all that Gb mainly for one game. Although I do help and edit other people video. And this is all done for fun, no serious editing going on.

     

    OP, my advice- there is no reason to get a SSD unless you need that quick transefer speed, otherwise go with a regular hard drive.

    "I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,059

    At home I have over 10T of random crap, across several hard drives. I consider my SSD essential - to the point I won't build a computer without one, and I have no personal computers that I use that do not have one.

    That in no way means I have 10T of SSD capacity. I don't think I even have 1T of total SSD capacity across all my SSD drives.

    I would never, never relate the necessity of an SSD with required drive capacity (and I make that same case with regard to laptops and other devices that are limited to a single storage device). It's apples and oranges.

    For me:

    I ~need~ an SSD - I have become so accustomed to them that I will not build or buy a computer without one any longer
    If I need more space past that, I just add storage drives to the computer, or add NAS capacity on my LAN, depending on how fast I need the storage to be.

    Sure, there are many different applications that can eat storage, but very very few of those exclude SSDs from being a very good idea in any computer build.

    P.S.
    2.8G free is really slowing down your SSD...

  • jdnewelljdnewell Member UncommonPosts: 2,237

    Once you get an SSD you wont want to go back to an HDD for your OS.

    I have had one in both of my computers for about 2 years now. My gaming PC I have my OS installed and a couple of my most played games. The other PC I just have the OS and programs installed on as its not used for gaming.

    Computer is much much faster to respond, boot time is fast, OS is responsive, Load times on games are a fraction of what they used to be. Like Skyrim for example loads so fast most of the time I cant read the hints before its loaded.

    With SSDs prices at reasonable levels there is no reason not to get one if you can. IMO

  • MukeMuke Member RarePosts: 2,614
    Originally posted by jdnewell

    Once you get an SSD you wont want to go back to an HDD for your OS.

    I have had one in both of my computers for about 2 years now. My gaming PC I have my OS installed and a couple of my most played games. The other PC I just have the OS and programs installed on as its not used for gaming.

    Computer is much much faster to respond, boot time is fast, OS is responsive, Load times on games are a fraction of what they used to be. Like Skyrim for example loads so fast most of the time I cant read the hints before its loaded.

    With SSDs prices at reasonable levels there is no reason not to get one if you can. IMO

    System admin from work gave me one to try out, 150GB Vertex 4 SSD.

    I tried it, Bios doesn't recognize it at startup, tried to get it bootable, Windows 7 recognizes it as a extra harddrive in My Computer but I wanted to try it as a bootable drive for my OS. So I disconnected it and gave it back.

    I could get a new one cheap through my office but am reluctant as:

    #1: I couldnt get that 1st one to be recognized in the BIOS at startup for a clean OS install.

    #2: I still hear a lot of shit from gamers that say their SSD died within 6 months-1.5y. (they claim to have only their OS and games installed, exactly what I would do so I am still hesitating)

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,406
    Originally posted by Muke
    Originally posted by jdnewell

    Once you get an SSD you wont want to go back to an HDD for your OS.

    I have had one in both of my computers for about 2 years now. My gaming PC I have my OS installed and a couple of my most played games. The other PC I just have the OS and programs installed on as its not used for gaming.

    Computer is much much faster to respond, boot time is fast, OS is responsive, Load times on games are a fraction of what they used to be. Like Skyrim for example loads so fast most of the time I cant read the hints before its loaded.

    With SSDs prices at reasonable levels there is no reason not to get one if you can. IMO

    System admin from work gave me one to try out, 150GB Vertex 4 SSD.

    I tried it, Bios doesn't recognize it at startup, tried to get it bootable, Windows 7 recognizes it as a extra harddrive in My Computer but I wanted to try it as a bootable drive for my OS. So I disconnected it and gave it back.

    I could get a new one cheap through my office but am reluctant as:

    #1: I couldnt get that 1st one to be recognized in the BIOS at startup for a clean OS install.

    #2: I still hear a lot of shit from gamers that say their SSD died within 6 months-1.5y. (they claim to have only their OS and games installed, exactly what I would do so I am still hesitating)

    If you add a new HD, whether it's an SSD or a regular HD, to a system and you want to put the OS on it you're usually looking at a clean re-install of the OS. There are some disk cloning programs that could move the OS for you but they're usually more hassle than just doing a clean re-install. It's easy to get an SSD with a new system. otherwise you'll need to do some planning and work.

    I have no idea what Bios you have or how you have it set-up but SSDs are no harder to be recognized by a Bios than any other Sata HD. Something in your Bios is not set-up properly.

    The shit you're hearing from gamers is just that--shit.

    As to the OP's original question... SSDs make a very big difference whenever there are large amounts of data that need to be loaded quickly. Booting the computer is one of those times...loading data in MMOs is another one... if you do either of those two things, you will notice a big improvement with even the slowest SSD over the fastest Raid-0 HDD set-up.

    As others have said, once you get used to using one, there is no going back - it's day and night.

    With typical gamer usage of SSDs (OS + whichever MMO(s) you currently play) it makes as much sense to worry about SSD lifespan as it does to worry about your HDDs lifespan...i.e. yes, either can fail, but failure is rare in both cases.

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
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    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • CaldrinCaldrin Member UncommonPosts: 4,505
    Originally posted by Chuckanar
    I am not going to bother with an SSD for another year at least I figure.. Why? they fail to often still. Their stability and reliability are not good enough for me what waste money on. My friends jumped onto the latest thing and jason has already replaced his twice due to it just going epic fail. I understand they are getting much more reliable and fast.. but I will just wait a bit longer and then buy. Just my opinion on it. Do some research on the brand and warranty of it before you buy is also a good idea.

    I think your mistaken... hell even the last generation of SSDs are just as reliable if not more so than a standard mechanical drive.

    I have been using my first SSD for well over 2 years now and have had 0 issues with it. A few drives had firmware issues but they where soon fixed.

     

    Anyway @ OP

     

    Having an SSD as your main OS drive is a must.. Put it this way when I first got mine my windows 7 boot time went from something like a minute to 10 seconds... windows 8 is even faster than that on an SSD.. You will never get boot times like that from a mechanical drive. Those times are not to log on screen but to actually being fully booted up and ready to open applications..

    Also any programs you run from the SSD will load faster as well..

    Look its not going to make your games any faster, sure some will load a bit quicker but the main thing to use an SSD for is your OS drive.

    I don't think i could live without an SSD in my computer..

  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 3,368
    I still don't think the cost of a SSD will cover the just faster load speed on certain tasks, also since the programs each day require more space a SSD of the size I would need would cost a lot more then a normal HD, so for now I really don't see the need to spend on it, but course if you have money to burn and change computer each year go ahead.
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,059


    Originally posted by Muke
    Originally posted by jdnewell Once you get an SSD you wont want to go back to an HDD for your OS. I have had one in both of my computers for about 2 years now. My gaming PC I have my OS installed and a couple of my most played games. The other PC I just have the OS and programs installed on as its not used for gaming. Computer is much much faster to respond, boot time is fast, OS is responsive, Load times on games are a fraction of what they used to be. Like Skyrim for example loads so fast most of the time I cant read the hints before its loaded. With SSDs prices at reasonable levels there is no reason not to get one if you can. IMO
    System admin from work gave me one to try out, 150GB Vertex 4 SSD.

    I tried it, Bios doesn't recognize it at startup, tried to get it bootable, Windows 7 recognizes it as a extra harddrive in My Computer but I wanted to try it as a bootable drive for my OS. So I disconnected it and gave it back.

    I could get a new one cheap through my office but am reluctant as:

    #1: I couldnt get that 1st one to be recognized in the BIOS at startup for a clean OS install.

    #2: I still hear a lot of shit from gamers that say their SSD died within 6 months-1.5y. (they claim to have only their OS and games installed, exactly what I would do so I am still hesitating)


    I had a hard drive die once.
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236351 Here's a hard drive that had a lot of failure reports.

    That doesn't mean all hard drives are bad. OCZ has a reputation for being fast and loose - their products are inexpensive, and perform like rockets, but are hit or miss with regard to quality (they use just whatever source they can get cheapest, as opposed to Intel, Crucial or Samsung, who tightly control (and even manufacture to a large degree) their parts chain).

    I have an old OCZ, can't remember which model - I bought it in 2009 I think. That drive still works fine, and it's seen daily gaming use for 4ish years now.

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,059


    Originally posted by alkarionlog
    I still don't think the cost of a SSD will cover the just faster load speed on certain tasks, also since the programs each day require more space a SSD of the size I would need would cost a lot more then a normal HD, so for now I really don't see the need to spend on it, but course if you have money to burn and change computer each year go ahead.

    Most people also don't need more than one core, or a GPU, or a car that will exceed 55MPH, or air conditioning - but those things sure are really nice to have.

    An SSD of usable size (60G+ to be useable, 120G+ is more realistic) isn't that much more expensive than a HDD of usable size. The only expense really comes in if you want additional SSD capacity.

    It's like buying a sports car - you don't buy a Lamborghini and complain that it won't seat your entire family of 7.

    You don't buy an SSD and complain you can't keep your entire Hentai FRAPS collection on it - you buy the SSD to keep the stuff you want to load really fast on it. If you want bulk data, you buy the minivan.

  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member RarePosts: 3,432
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    It depends.  When you ask your computer to do something, do you want it to do what you asked right away, or are you fine with the computer making you wait for a while and then eventually getting around to doing what you asked?  If you want the former, then you need an SSD.  If you don't mind constantly waiting every time you ask your computer to do anything, then you don't.

    You're probably so used to constantly having to wait that you don't even realize that it doesn't have to be that way.  If you get an SSD, it seems nice and the computer just works.  Then if you go back to a hard drive, it's painful to go without the SSD.  It's kind of like if you get used to having a computer that doesn't crash, you don't constantly stop to think, hey, the computer didn't crash today.  But if you then go back to using Windows ME and get a blue screen per day or so, you really miss having a stable computer.

    Great description, sums it up perfectly.

     

     




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