I am so happy Neverwinter is a trainwreck

Whitebeards

Originally posted by Vahrane

Originally posted by Whitebeards

Originally posted by Vahrane

Originally posted by Whitebeards

Originally posted by Vahrane

 

 I edited my earlier post with an example. You missed it. Go back and read it.

 One example of heightened complexity offered by initial mmorpg experiences included UO's skill based system which allowed players, for the first time, to pursue characters that were crafters or thieves and not just fighters. Bread and other food objects could be poisoned with various levels of poisons created by player alchemists. The aforementioned poisonous food could then be left out for an unsuspecting victim. The ability to kill someone with a piece of bread  is far beyond the kind of gameplay  we have today.

Oh boy..so this is what you consider as 'heightened complexity'? 

By the way UO doesn't make entire genre.

   Give me a better example from NW? It's not the best but it sure as hell beats the click-fest, excuse for D&D that is NW. Can these games ever get as complex as a pen and paper session? No, I highly doubt it. It does seriously seem that games are moving in the opposite direction though. I think the most interesting combat tactic, that even borders on complexity, that I've heard about from NW is knocking adds off cliffs during boss fights. 

I don't need to give an example because i don't even believe in this 'heightened complexity' thing you are going on about. MMOS were never as complex as you are trying hard to prove they were. And the example you gave from UO just proves my point.

      I didn't say they were highly complex initially! I said they were more complex than what we have now! Formerly, there was a greater (heightened) sense of complexity in older mmo games. Now you're arguing a completely different point and I'm starting to doubt you really had a point to begin with. It's a completely opinionated argument anyway. I feel the way I do and you have no real feeling beyond the enjoyment of linking random gifs after peoples posts.

I took your comment the way you wrote it. You said this genre used to be about 'heightened complexity'. Now you can back peddle and change your original statement but that is what you wrote. So nope i wasn't arguing a different point but the only point you were trying to make about this 'genre'.

Don't get upset now because i questioned what you said and asked you to back it up. And yes i know it is an opinionated argument but that doesn't mean others can not question your opinions. 

By the way i only posted animated GIF for your post....so i don't know who are these other 'peoples' you are talking about.

 

Vahrane

Originally posted by Whitebeards

Originally posted by Vahrane

      I didn't say they were highly complex initially! I said they were more complex than what we have now! Formerly, there was a greater (heightened) sense of complexity in older mmo games. Now you're arguing a completely different point and I'm starting to doubt you really had a point to begin with. It's a completely opinionated argument anyway. I feel the way I do and you have no real feeling beyond the enjoyment of linking random gifs after peoples posts.

I took your comment the way you wrote it. You said this genre used to be about 'heightened complexity'. Now you can back peddle and change your original statement but that is what you wrote. So nope i wasn't arguing a different point but the only point you were trying to make about this 'genre'.

Don't get upset now because i questioned what you said and asked you to back it up. And yes i know it is an opinionated argument but that doesn't mean others can not question your opinions. 

By the way i only posted animated GIF for your post....so i don't know who are these other 'peoples' you are talking about.

 

It's not my fault you didn't understand it the way I wrote it. I wrote "used to be" as in prior to contemporary titles.

Zalmon

Originally posted by Vahrane

 

It's not my fault you didn't understand it the way I wrote it. I wrote "used to be" as in prior to contemporary titles.

And yet you haven't proved it. That just one example didn't prove anything really. Also the the original statement mentioned 'genre' and last time i checked one MMO does not make an entire genre.

I think now even you are just arguing for sake of it instead of trying to explain your point with better examples.

Vahrane

Originally posted by Zalmon

Originally posted by Vahrane

 

It's not my fault you didn't understand it the way I wrote it. I wrote "used to be" as in prior to contemporary titles.

And yet you haven't proved it. That just one example didn't prove anything really. Also the the original statement mentioned 'genre' and last time i checked one MMO does not make an entire genre.

I think now even you are just arguing for sake of it instead of trying to explain your point with better examples.

   He never even gave one example in counter argument. Had he made any effort to dispute my initial example with one of his own, I would have carried the argument further. Feel free to take a crack at it yourself. This is a highly opinionated argument anyway. No one is going to win. Nothing is going to be "proven". Here's a simple one just for shits. Any one of EQ's epic class weapon quests when compared to ANY mmorpg quests post WoW era besides the WoW hunter class epic and priest class epics (which quests were intentionally reminiscent of the EQ epics but were never done for each WoW class, shame).

Zalmon

Originally posted by Vahrane

Originally posted by Zalmon

Originally posted by Vahrane

 

It's not my fault you didn't understand it the way I wrote it. I wrote "used to be" as in prior to contemporary titles.

And yet you haven't proved it. That just one example didn't prove anything really. Also the the original statement mentioned 'genre' and last time i checked one MMO does not make an entire genre.

I think now even you are just arguing for sake of it instead of trying to explain your point with better examples.

   He never even gave one example in counter argument. Had he made any effort to dispute my initial example with one of his own, I would have carried the argument further. Feel free to take a crack at it yourself. This is a highly opinionated argument anyway. No one is going to win. Nothing is going to be "proven".

He didn't give an example to counter argument maybe because he doesn't even believe in the whole 'MMO genre used to be of heightened complexity' statement? i don't think he was trying to prove you wrong but expecting you to back up what you said.

Vahrane

Originally posted by Zalmon

Originally posted by Vahrane

Originally posted by Zalmon

Originally posted by Vahrane

 

It's not my fault you didn't understand it the way I wrote it. I wrote "used to be" as in prior to contemporary titles.

And yet you haven't proved it. That just one example didn't prove anything really. Also the the original statement mentioned 'genre' and last time i checked one MMO does not make an entire genre.

I think now even you are just arguing for sake of it instead of trying to explain your point with better examples.

   He never even gave one example in counter argument. Had he made any effort to dispute my initial example with one of his own, I would have carried the argument further. Feel free to take a crack at it yourself. This is a highly opinionated argument anyway. No one is going to win. Nothing is going to be "proven".

He didn't give an example to counter argument maybe because he doesn't even believe in the whole 'MMO genre used to be of heightened complexity' statement? i don't think he was trying to prove you wrong but expecting you to back up what you said.

       Fair enough. Like I edited my post to say above. Check out any of the EQ class epic quests. I don't have time or inclination to list all the steps for even one, but it required a great deal of effort and thought to solve those particular quests. There is practically nothing of their scale in mmorpgs today. Beyond the class epics, the Coldain Prayer Shawl was another fairly complex quest line which required the player to nearly GM (grand master) every trade skill in the game (except tinkering which was gnome only).

Icewhite

Originally posted by Whitebeards

Originally posted by Vahrane

 

Seriously! What's your point? I'm a baby for asking for a deeper, higher quality game?

The point is what you wrote was a load of BS but still hilarious. MMOS used to be about heightened complexity? people surely love to exaggerate a lot around here. I doubt even you know those words mean. Care to give example of this heightened complexity?

I don't think so. Too much exposure to forums (a chance to step up to the podium and pontificate) does lead to a bit of extra posturing (and yes, a great deal of overstatement), all around.

And it's easier to dogmatize certain sorts of talking points for easier delivery.

I do not exclude myself from this observation.

(and following the subsequent 30 posts...just forget it)