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Core Principle: Know your Enemy!
Jodocus_Quak
Member Posts: 6
I did not read anything about it in MJ's principles. I played DAoC beta and DAoC until it interfered with my studies at Uni and I quit. What I really like about RvR and 8vs8 was that you knew your enemy from seeing the kill mgs and IRC chats. You knew the well known groups from the other factions and this created a bond server wide. This was a huge factor in creating a community that stuck together.
This principle was first applied in WoW as well, unfortunately the 8vs8 or 5vs5 aspect fell short. But you knew your enemies. Later on, world pvp died and instance zone PvP was introduced. Even later on, you had battle groups going at each other, This was the point where you did not know your enemy anymore and it got boring. Blizzard weighted the shorter waiting times higher than the bond that created server PvP. Newer games implemented this and now it is a standard.
I think it is wrong and I hope that CU finds ways to exactly replicate that satisfying feeling of killing your known enemy.
I know the "good" times of being in my late teens / yearly twens won't come back with playing CU again having a job with long meetings and writing complicated law suits. But even if MJ and his gang may be only able to recreate a glimps of the feelings I had back then I would be endlessly thankful to them.
Comments
Nicely done!
Not only did the PvP landscape shift in these games, but players changed, too. People started demanding and then exploiting easy server transfers and faction changes, and this took its toll on community, server and faction pride. The "Well, I am mad, I am out of here" replaced "let's tough it out and figure out how to get those SOBs!" Group finders, dungeon finders and raid finders supplanted community and having to deal with real people. All of these innovations looked blessed at their birth, but quickly corrupted the experience. And, frankly, both players and developers were complicit in this.
As for the good times, there is nothing so sweet as a first love. I think it takes some time and experience to get to a place where your realize that recapturing a moment past is folly, and accepting the merits of the present can also be rewarding. And, those that refuse to learn that lesson spend the bigger part of their life complaining about how today is not yesterday while losing tomorrow.
I have great hopes for CU. And, here's to bashing your face to a bloody pulp with my shield.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
It is now time for me to admire your post. Perfectly stated.
/blush
That means a lot coming from an eloquent poster like yourself. However, it makes no difference! I am still kicking your ass in the RvR killing fields!
Good luck with that! Muahahahaha.
No way, no how.
What purpose does communicating with one's enemy serve? Are we going to invite each other over for tea and crumpets?
Your enemy is from a different culture, different realm, and most likely speaks a foreign language, and the only purpose your enemy serves is as a speed bump on the road to resources and victory. There is a reason for the saying 'Red is Dead'.
Rift is a modern day MMO that allows you to communicate with your enemy just fine, and it was hideous at best.
People were too busy shit talking each other to actually be of any use to their team. Better yet, in what little open world PvP there was, most of the time it consisted of wannabe 'elite' asses standing around coordinating duels with each other so they could measure their e-peens.
Enemy communication has no place in a game like CU where Realm Pride and community matters.
Of course there's the age old argument that players from enemy realms will still communicate with each other via Mumble, TeamSpeak, Vent or whatever the flavor of the day is, and there's nothing to be done about it. That's still fine. It is their choice to play like that and coordinate, but I don't have to have it foisted on me if I don't choose to, and it won't be looked on favorably by most who are looking at CU to bring back that sense of pride in their community.
(Example: It wasn't as easy to find an enemy 'friend' and farm each other for RPs, because the death spam would make it obvious as to what was going on and they would be reported / shunned).
There is nothing at all 'important' about being able to communicate with your enemy. It has nothing to do with someone else's feelings getting hurt, and everything to do with stroking your own ego.
Well you obviously looked at it on an individual level. There will be 3 realms in CU, if one realm becomes over powered then the other two realms can team up and attack the overpowered realm. Now this would be pretty hard to achieve without communicating with the realm you want to forge an alliance with.
If I see this topic come up in the backers forum, I will protest it until the bitter end.
From my experience (from DaOC, subjective), it didn't need communication. The other two realms know who was top dog. When opportunity came up, there was a silent, unspoken alliance of sorts because you hated the OP side more then the other guy. You'd AJ the majority side, waved at the other guy, and went upon your way. Didn't always happen, but it was most evident in large undertakings where one of the weaker sides was trying to steal the relics of the big boys, and the third side would actually help the first team by taking objectives or stalling the major side. Like Dodgers and Red Socks fans going at it, but they both agree that they hate the Yankees more.
I can understand your concern nerovipus32, but from experience these things sometimes have a way of working themselves out when it's important.
All in all, I'm with Edany on this one. It's important to realm pride not to have it.
Communication with the enemy beyond emotes is certainly not necessary in my opinion.
I certainly hope there wont be server hopping (the I want to play with my friends on the other server crowd) and name changes (I can do what I want and get away with just changing my name crowd). Otherwise I don't see how a stable community can be maintained.
To quote the movie Troy:
Achilles: You're still my enemy in the morning.
Priam: You're still my enemy tonight. But even enemies can show respect.
Obviously you don't understand the meaning of that.
But I don't blame you though, not a lot of people understand that concept because it is a concept that has long been dead in our society (in today's world people tends to believe that we got to stomp our enemy to the ground and not let them retreat with dignity).
However there are people that wants to show each other respect after the fought each other out there. Also who knows you may not be friends on this server with them, however you might ended up being good friends with them on another server because you fought with them, know they are good and nice people and want to play together.
Honestly I think of that quote often. It rings true but too many people get butthurt over being insulted in an anonymous online game. People need thicker skins and to utilize the ignore feature rather than go crying to mom to save them from the bad man. Because people whine about being offended, when there are means to not even see it, means you don't get to talk to your enemy unless its on forums/vent or whatever outside source. Thats the 1st reason.
What I stated above should be true for FFA games, but even I am not convinced it should be part of a 3 faction war. In an FFA game, espionage and plants play into the political warfare aspect of those games. In a hard coded 3 faction game there is no backstabbing your own realm sort of speak the way you would in an FFA game. You can't be one realm then take that same character and change to another. Adding cross faction chat into a game with this design would make it easier to have cross realm collusion. Thats the 2nd reason.
I enjoy being able to talk to enemies. Sure there is a lot of shit talk, but in truth the best friends I have made in online gaming were themselves once my enemies. I generally stay in contact with more of my respectable rivals than people on my own side. However in a game such as this as long as you can see the name on the battlefield, as long as you see their name in kill spam, and as long as there are forums for the server then there will be means to communicate with them.
Mark has openly stated you will seen enemy names on the battlefield and also see names in kill spam. He has also stated no cross faction chat.