I have noticed that as more games go F2P there are more asshats around than ever before. Even my favorite shooter (CounterStrike) is so jacked up with hackers these days its no fun to play. I see more and more hacking and more punk-ass kids talking trash in chat and greifing guilds popping up.
Do you think a rated M game with say a $25. a mo. sub fee would curb these losers ? Would you pay that a month to be in a better more mature community ? I would probably pay more to be honest with you but I have $$ to burn.
What do you think ?
EDIT : after learning about the EQ Legacy server I believe that would be the answer if done right.
Possibly a more expensive server that offers things like player housing and other community driven items.
Not a new game but a new server.
I so wish this were a possibility. If, for example, there was a GM driven, dedicated RP server in an mmorpg, but we had to pay, say, $19.99, or even $25.99, I would pay in a heartbeat for this - a server that I would willingly pay extra $$ for that specifically supports a community that has been driven away or filled with mediocrity and weirdos lol.
Perhaps this should be done for a variety of server types.
Op you assume the asshats are all poor. this is incrediably short sighted of you. There are just as many rich asshats as poor ones. There are several kids who can afford such things as they have rich parents who will shell out the extra $25 without blinking a eye. Your Idea might catch some but don't think it will take out most or even the majority. Rudeness and immaturity is not restricted to the poor and their are people without manners in all ranks of society
You'll get people willing to pay more for a server to play with other mature people.
You'll also get the type of people that believe it's their right to be an ass-hat because the pay.
Imo there is no clear cut answer, although you could try getting a server with mostly decent people to ignore the ass-hat's. That might make them leave, or it could make it worse.
Remove entitlements and conveniences so the game goes back to player dependency, add GMs who actually handle complaints... maybe add a reputation system (blacklist antagonists)... These would be my suggestions.
If having a pay barrier were enough, with all the F2Ps out right now, WoW would have a stellar community. Last I heard, it didn't.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Originally posted by Razeekster ...This whole thread is pointless if you're going to switch all around. ...
The O.P. has, as a result of this discussion, altered his view. Gaining insights and moving opinions is the primary purpose of discussion. Otherwise it's just a bunch of people spouting off whatever comes to mind. THAT would be pointless.
And ZombieKen is perfectly correct.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Let me try to make my latest point more clear since everyone is off on some tangent.
I am not suggesting a new rpgmmo be produced that is expensive. I do not feel this would work and the business model would never succeed.
I do not believe rich people that can afford higher prices are better people. Quite the contrary.
I do believe that a game with a server that charges more and offers more community and RP driven aspects like player/guild housing, cosmetic elements, and things of this nature would have a lesser amount of said asshats. Think of any game that you have played on both a pvp and a pve server.
PVE is more chill.
PVP is more uptight and has more trashtalking, greifing, and hacking.
And if you have ever played on an RP server they have the nicest and most mature community. I am not a RP'r but I always chose those servers when given the chance.
This type of server model would allow developers the capitol to do more for the pve community instead of constantly using resources to cater to the pvp community with is more outspoken and never sticks around very long.
Or even a server that is able to afford more moderators to keep the hacking and greifing to a minimum.
You clearly don't read anyone's posts. You keep saying the same thing when it's already been proven that this method would flop.
1) Only the 1% could afford to play such an MMO and most of the 1% don't play MMOs.
2) People wouldn't even play the cheaper server because they'd be upset that they were paying $15 a month and yet were getting jipped on features because rich people were paying $25-$50 a month for another server.
3) It just wouldn't work. The game would be mocked into the void for having such a ridiculous subscription price.
4) Just because a game costs more money doesn't mean it's not going to attract annoying people. Your logic is completely ridiculous. Your game is going to have annoying people no matter how much it costs.
I hate to break it to you but your idea wouldn't work at all.
LOL, I'm not sure you can comprehend what I am saying.
#1 your saying that only the top 1% can afford $25 a month. Funny
#2 The server would be for those that want RP elements or more moderation from griefers and hackers. Meanwhile griefers and hackers would prefer to stay on a server that cost less and allows them to grief and hack more freely.
#3 whats ridiculous about a game that charges more for a server that offers more for your taste. Most of us understand that it costs more to do more or hire more employees.
#4 I never said that high costs would attract better people your pulling that out of your bum
Um, your argument was attracting a better community. Now you're switching because you've been wrong? This whole thread is pointless if you're going to switch all around. Also like I've already said, when there are $15 dollar games thta have the features you're talking about no one's going to pay for a game subscription that costs $25.
AARRGG. I give up with you bro. I would sooner argue with my wife. You Winnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. Its a horrible idea.
Alright you have fun with that. Kind of funny how you were talking about "asshates" (I hope you don't think that's a real term) and then basically discredit anyone who has actual, valid counter-arguments. Hmmm... I wonder who the "asshat" is in this situation...
HMMM, maybe this will help you. "Yes dear your right and I'm wrong."
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing. -Robert E. Howard
First of all Counter strike was ALWAYS full of cheat scripts,from day one,nothing has changed.
As to the question at hand,most certainly,i would say as many as 90% of unwanted.
Wow was the one exception,it was the NEW game that happen to come in when millions of new DSL MMO gamers were hitting the scene.SO ALl of them piled into that game in drones,90% never even played a mmo before.The community was such a turn off,it was for that reason alone ,i gave the game no further ado past launch week.
Right now you want to get rid of a few things from your game.
Freebies that just come into the game to tell you how great THAT other game is.You don't get those players that just want to come in and be an ass about everything.You also make it a tad tougher to keep RMT out.Another deterrent to subs is keeping cheats out,if they know they might lose actual money for getting caught,they might think twice.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I would happily pay a sub for a game that I considered to be a good game. Payment models are continually evolving, and many people seem to be discovering that F2P comes with its own set of issues.
For the record, most research into the effect of wealth on prosocial and antisocial behavior shows that wealthy people do tend to measure higher on indexes of antisocial behavior and lower on indexes of prosocial behavior. When you look at the studies that measure personal interaction, it's disturbing how stark the differences are. And there are effects beyond that too. People who drive expensive cars are more aggressive on the road and are more likely to cut people off. Even the wealthy philanthropist is the exception. Poor people donate a much larger chunk of their income to charity than rich people. For the sake of clarity, these studies were conducted in America, so you can make your own judgments on how much of the observed difference was the result of wealth and how much was the result of American culture.
A game which tries to promote community with a high sub fee would probably breed a diseased community, perhaps outwardly polite but inwardly more selfish, self-centered, and aggressive than if the game were more inclusive.
I do get your point, OP. You think players aren't vested in the game, so they act like asshats. Certainly, the rise of the F2P model has created a new kind of griefer. I actually don't think you need a sub fee to deal with that, though.
A better mechanic is haviing a box sale. Having any small amount of up-front box cost is a huge deterrent to griefers. People tend to think twice if they have to pay $30-50 if they get banned for griefing.
But studios are moving away from that, rather than toward it. F2P is the future.
The real solution is to do what Korea does. You _have_ to genuinely identify yourself to play most of the MMO's there. As in, you actually input your SSN. If you are a habitual griefer, yes, they will actually come to your house and confront you over it.
However, this is in clear conflict with American values regarding privacy. It's more accepted in Korea because their culture leans somewhat more towards collectivism.
LOL, I'm not sure you can comprehend what I am saying.
And we're not sure you understand marketing or consumer behavior, so I guess we're all at an impasse.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Let me try to make my latest point more clear since everyone is off on some tangent.
I am not suggesting a new rpgmmo be produced that is expensive. I do not feel this would work and the business model would never succeed.
I do not believe rich people that can afford higher prices are better people. Quite the contrary.
I do believe that a game with a server that charges more and offers more community and RP driven aspects like player/guild housing, cosmetic elements, and things of this nature would have a lesser amount of said asshats. Think of any game that you have played on both a pvp and a pve server.
PVE is more chill.
PVP is more uptight and has more trashtalking, greifing, and hacking.
And if you have ever played on an RP server they have the nicest and most mature community. I am not a RP'r but I always chose those servers when given the chance.
This type of server model would allow developers the capitol to do more for the pve community instead of constantly using resources to cater to the pvp community with is more outspoken and never sticks around very long.
Or even a server that is able to afford more moderators to keep the hacking and greifing to a minimum.
You clearly don't read anyone's posts. You keep saying the same thing when it's already been proven that this method would flop.
1) Only the 1% could afford to play such an MMO and most of the 1% don't play MMOs.
2) People wouldn't even play the cheaper server because they'd be upset that they were paying $15 a month and yet were getting jipped on features because rich people were paying $25-$50 a month for another server.
3) It just wouldn't work. The game would be mocked into the void for having such a ridiculous subscription price.
4) Just because a game costs more money doesn't mean it's not going to attract annoying people. Your logic is completely ridiculous. Your game is going to have annoying people no matter how much it costs.
I hate to break it to you but your idea wouldn't work at all.
LOL, I'm not sure you can comprehend what I am saying.
#1 your saying that only the top 1% can afford $25 a month. Funny
#2 The server would be for those that want RP elements or more moderation from griefers and hackers. Meanwhile griefers and hackers would prefer to stay on a server that cost less and allows them to grief and hack more freely.
#3 whats ridiculous about a game that charges more for a server that offers more for your taste. Most of us understand that it costs more to do more or hire more employees.
#4 I never said that high costs would attract better people your pulling that out of your bum
Um, your argument was attracting a better community. Now you're switching because you've been wrong? This whole thread is pointless if you're going to switch all around. Also like I've already said, when there are $15 dollar games thta have the features you're talking about no one's going to pay for a game subscription that costs $25.
AARRGG. I give up with you bro. I would sooner argue with my wife. You Winnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. Its a horrible idea.
Alright you have fun with that. Kind of funny how you were talking about "asshates" (I hope you don't think that's a real term) and then basically discredit anyone who has actual, valid counter-arguments. Hmmm... I wonder who the "asshat" is in this situation...
HMMM, maybe this will help you. "Yes dear your right and I'm wrong."
The thing is you have been nothing but sarcastic and rude to people who have different opinions, and yet you talk about wanting less "asshats" in your game when you come off as the very thing you want less of. Not only that but you fail to understand that no matter how much a game costs you will always have people you don't like playing them too. It's like real life; you're going to meet people that you just don't like. That's a fact.
Also, no idea what the whole "Yes dear your [you're] right and I'm wrong" thing is all about. I'm not your "dear."
I have noticed that as more games go F2P there are more asshats around than ever before. Even my favorite shooter (CounterStrike) is so jacked up with hackers these days its no fun to play. I see more and more hacking and more punk-ass kids talking trash in chat and greifing guilds popping up.
Do you think a rated M game with say a $25. a mo. sub fee would curb these losers ? Would you pay that a month to be in a better more mature community ? I would probably pay more to be honest with you but I have $$ to burn.
What do you think ?
EDIT : after learning about the EQ Legacy server I believe that would be the answer if done right.
Possibly a more expensive server that offers things like player housing and other community driven items.
Not a new game but a new server.
It (expensive sub) would keep out nice people too on account of affordability and value. Who's to stop parents from paying for brats?
Originally posted by Shadowguy64 Some of you guys using logic and reason have no place in this thread. The OP wants us to think that paying more is better. So please stop!!
Not at all. I simply posed a question. I really like the idea of a more expensive server though.
Give me $1 million and I'll build you your own server. Why endorse segregation in gaming?
Being an asshole has no financial barrier. Assholes are not confined to a particular salary, and as such, a subscription model would do little to thwart them...you would just have assholes making similar salaries and with similar motivations.
The best thing to do in a game is to provide as few opportunities for people to be assholes to each other as possible.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
Originally posted by winter Op you assume the asshats are all poor. this is incrediably short sighted of you. There are just as many rich asshats as poor ones. There are several kids who can afford such things as they have rich parents who will shell out the extra $25 without blinking a eye. Your Idea might catch some but don't think it will take out most or even the majority. Rudeness and immaturity is not restricted to the poor and their are people without manners in all ranks of society
Yes, but if the rich asshat is cheating, and the game takes time to develop your character, the asshat will actually be banned and have to a) buy a new copy, and b) level back up. Rich or not, it isn't very attractive, if a game actually polices people and is serious about cheaters. My stance is more for cheaters, not someone that is rude...Now if they take it to an extreme and are trying to ruin peoples playing experience and that is all they are doing, then it probably would cross a line, but just plain rude...You can't do much about that.
Originally posted by Rigur It's just a numbers game. 10 million players 30% jerks = 3 million idiots to run into. As a game becomes smaller you have less jerks to run into so the community becomes better. On the higher sub not sure if it would work EQ had a legends server for 45$ a month for awhile. I only tried it for one month so can't really say how the community was.
You don't play with 10 million people though you play with 5k max.
Yes this works. Have a premium server that costs double or more per month per account but with it you get some extra attention from the devs (live events etc.). This will help keep out the riff raff and 12 year old kiddies. The more people have vested in a game the more mature they will generally act in that game.
Too bad the trend is for 1) free to play games, and 2) single massive servers. The move away from multiple servers is the worse problem however as it removes the flexibility for alternate rule sets in games and alternate subscription costs/types.
Being an asshole has no financial barrier. Assholes are not confined to a particular salary, and as such, a subscription model would do little to thwart them...you would just have assholes making similar salaries and with similar motivations.
The best thing to do in a game is to provide as few opportunities for people to be assholes to each other as possible.
We are not talking about assholes only. But subs keeps away people who dont take game seriously. These people just troll most of the time, etc. Subs is small fee but it keeps some percentage of unwanted players, thats the truth.
Being an asshole has no financial barrier. Assholes are not confined to a particular salary, and as such, a subscription model would do little to thwart them...you would just have assholes making similar salaries and with similar motivations.
The best thing to do in a game is to provide as few opportunities for people to be assholes to each other as possible.
We are not talking about assholes only. But subs keeps away people who dont take game seriously. These people just troll most of the time, etc. Subs is small fee but it keeps some percentage of unwanted players, thats the truth.
I'd rather play with the people who don't take games too seriously.
Originally posted by nerovipus32 This is how religions start.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Assuming that having more disposable income to play games makes you less of a douchebag towards other people. Cute... In my experience the opposite is true, but sure, tell me all about it...
------------------------- "Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"
Comments
I so wish this were a possibility. If, for example, there was a GM driven, dedicated RP server in an mmorpg, but we had to pay, say, $19.99, or even $25.99, I would pay in a heartbeat for this - a server that I would willingly pay extra $$ for that specifically supports a community that has been driven away or filled with mediocrity and weirdos lol.
Perhaps this should be done for a variety of server types.
It's a 50-50
You'll get people willing to pay more for a server to play with other mature people.
You'll also get the type of people that believe it's their right to be an ass-hat because the pay.
Imo there is no clear cut answer, although you could try getting a server with mostly decent people to ignore the ass-hat's. That might make them leave, or it could make it worse.
Remove entitlements and conveniences so the game goes back to player dependency, add GMs who actually handle complaints... maybe add a reputation system (blacklist antagonists)... These would be my suggestions.
If having a pay barrier were enough, with all the F2Ps out right now, WoW would have a stellar community. Last I heard, it didn't.
The O.P. has, as a result of this discussion, altered his view. Gaining insights and moving opinions is the primary purpose of discussion. Otherwise it's just a bunch of people spouting off whatever comes to mind. THAT would be pointless.
And ZombieKen is perfectly correct.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
HMMM, maybe this will help you. "Yes dear your right and I'm wrong."
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can
be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
-Robert E. Howard
First of all Counter strike was ALWAYS full of cheat scripts,from day one,nothing has changed.
As to the question at hand,most certainly,i would say as many as 90% of unwanted.
Wow was the one exception,it was the NEW game that happen to come in when millions of new DSL MMO gamers were hitting the scene.SO ALl of them piled into that game in drones,90% never even played a mmo before.The community was such a turn off,it was for that reason alone ,i gave the game no further ado past launch week.
Right now you want to get rid of a few things from your game.
Freebies that just come into the game to tell you how great THAT other game is.You don't get those players that just want to come in and be an ass about everything.You also make it a tad tougher to keep RMT out.Another deterrent to subs is keeping cheats out,if they know they might lose actual money for getting caught,they might think twice.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
For the record, most research into the effect of wealth on prosocial and antisocial behavior shows that wealthy people do tend to measure higher on indexes of antisocial behavior and lower on indexes of prosocial behavior. When you look at the studies that measure personal interaction, it's disturbing how stark the differences are. And there are effects beyond that too. People who drive expensive cars are more aggressive on the road and are more likely to cut people off. Even the wealthy philanthropist is the exception. Poor people donate a much larger chunk of their income to charity than rich people. For the sake of clarity, these studies were conducted in America, so you can make your own judgments on how much of the observed difference was the result of wealth and how much was the result of American culture.
A game which tries to promote community with a high sub fee would probably breed a diseased community, perhaps outwardly polite but inwardly more selfish, self-centered, and aggressive than if the game were more inclusive.
I do get your point, OP. You think players aren't vested in the game, so they act like asshats. Certainly, the rise of the F2P model has created a new kind of griefer. I actually don't think you need a sub fee to deal with that, though.
A better mechanic is haviing a box sale. Having any small amount of up-front box cost is a huge deterrent to griefers. People tend to think twice if they have to pay $30-50 if they get banned for griefing.
But studios are moving away from that, rather than toward it. F2P is the future.
The real solution is to do what Korea does. You _have_ to genuinely identify yourself to play most of the MMO's there. As in, you actually input your SSN. If you are a habitual griefer, yes, they will actually come to your house and confront you over it.
However, this is in clear conflict with American values regarding privacy. It's more accepted in Korea because their culture leans somewhat more towards collectivism.
And we're not sure you understand marketing or consumer behavior, so I guess we're all at an impasse.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The thing is you have been nothing but sarcastic and rude to people who have different opinions, and yet you talk about wanting less "asshats" in your game when you come off as the very thing you want less of. Not only that but you fail to understand that no matter how much a game costs you will always have people you don't like playing them too. It's like real life; you're going to meet people that you just don't like. That's a fact.
Also, no idea what the whole "Yes dear your [you're] right and I'm wrong" thing is all about. I'm not your "dear."
Smile
It (expensive sub) would keep out nice people too on account of affordability and value. Who's to stop parents from paying for brats?
Give me $1 million and I'll build you your own server. Why endorse segregation in gaming?
Being an asshole has no financial barrier. Assholes are not confined to a particular salary, and as such, a subscription model would do little to thwart them...you would just have assholes making similar salaries and with similar motivations.
The best thing to do in a game is to provide as few opportunities for people to be assholes to each other as possible.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
Yes, but if the rich asshat is cheating, and the game takes time to develop your character, the asshat will actually be banned and have to a) buy a new copy, and b) level back up. Rich or not, it isn't very attractive, if a game actually polices people and is serious about cheaters. My stance is more for cheaters, not someone that is rude...Now if they take it to an extreme and are trying to ruin peoples playing experience and that is all they are doing, then it probably would cross a line, but just plain rude...You can't do much about that.
You don't play with 10 million people though you play with 5k max.
Yes this works. Have a premium server that costs double or more per month per account but with it you get some extra attention from the devs (live events etc.). This will help keep out the riff raff and 12 year old kiddies. The more people have vested in a game the more mature they will generally act in that game.
Too bad the trend is for 1) free to play games, and 2) single massive servers. The move away from multiple servers is the worse problem however as it removes the flexibility for alternate rule sets in games and alternate subscription costs/types.
We are not talking about assholes only. But subs keeps away people who dont take game seriously. These people just troll most of the time, etc. Subs is small fee but it keeps some percentage of unwanted players, thats the truth.
I'd rather play with the people who don't take games too seriously.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
-------------------------
"Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"
Member Since March 2004