You said "Whats wrong with people supporting a game they like?" but NOWHERE did I say someone should not support a game they like. I would like to thank you for starting your post off with a complete fallacy.
You then say "Good you won't pay a dime for a good game" another fallacy. Once again NOWHERE did I say that. I pay a lot for games I like. I never commented on if I actually liked this game, my issue is with Cryptic as a company but you wouldnt know that since you were so busy making up stuff about my post.
This is my favorite part though, you said "Oh I can't get that item so I'll make fun of the guy who did". I have looked though my post several times and once again I found nothing that says I can not afford the items in the game. Seems that ONCE AGAIN you made stuff up and try and pass it off as fact. The truth is, I can afford pretty much anything in a computer game. You name the game and I have probably played it and left with loads of points siting on my account. I left Eve with 8 PLEX sitting on my char, as a lifer in STO and TSW I have thousands of points sitting there. As a subber for a long time to LOTRO my account is sitting on thousands of their points too.
The OP of this thread stated his opinion on why he would like to see this game fail and I simply provided a strategy that I will use since I dont like Cryptic as a company and anything I can do to take money from them sits well with me. Thanks for making stuff up and Oh BTW, you're welcome
There's a difference between a fallacy and an interpretation. You made it sound as though you go out of your way to "make fun of" those who pay for cashshop items. He injected his interpretation of such a statement.
Why would you attempt to "make fun of" anyone for supporting the game you're playing? Regardless of how you feel about the company, that doesn't hurt the company and I sure as shit bet it doesn't bother those who you would attempt to make fun of, it's simply pathetic juvenile behavior. The only thing you'd be accomplishing is looking like a tool.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Whats wrong with people supporting a game they like? Good you won't pay a dime for a good game just shows how sad people are these days. To make fun of someone for supporting a game they like is pretty dumb and childish if you ask me. Oh I can't get that item so I'll make fun of the guy who did. The funny part, is the guy who can afford it is the guy who allows you to play for free. So instead of making fun of them say thank you for keeping the servers open so my cheap ass can keep playing.
Oh and you're welcome
Lets break down your little post shall we?
You said "Whats wrong with people supporting a game they like?" but NOWHERE did I say someone should not support a game they like. I would like to thank you for starting your post off with a complete fallacy.
You then say "Good you won't pay a dime for a good game" another fallacy. Once again NOWHERE did I say that. I pay a lot for games I like. I never commented on if I actually liked this game, my issue is with Cryptic as a company but you wouldnt know that since you were so busy making up stuff about my post.
This is my favorite part though, you said "Oh I can't get that item so I'll make fun of the guy who did". I have looked though my post several times and once again I found nothing that says I can not afford the items in the game. Seems that ONCE AGAIN you made stuff up and try and pass it off as fact. The truth is, I can afford pretty much anything in a computer game. You name the game and I have probably played it and left with loads of points siting on my account. I left Eve with 8 PLEX sitting on my char, as a lifer in STO and TSW I have thousands of points sitting there. As a subber for a long time to LOTRO my account is sitting on thousands of their points too.
The OP of this thread stated his opinion on why he would like to see this game fail and I simply provided a strategy that I will use since I dont like Cryptic as a company and anything I can do to take money from them sits well with me. Thanks for making stuff up and Oh BTW, you're welcome
Cool now let's nit pick your original post shall we?
"The best thing you can do if you hate the financial model is play for free."
So your saying force yourself to play a game you don't like for free or to play a game you do like for free?
"I will play for free with my kids and none of us will give Craptic a dime."
Oh so you're getting enjoyment out of the product and even letting your kids get enjoyment out of it but overall you're to cheap too pay for something that provides you and your family enjoyment... Nice one dad
"When we see people who have purchased stuff we will laugh at them and make fun of them in groups. "
Oh so while claiming to be a low life taking and not giving you also will pull online bully tactics against those who feel like rewarding a company for a product they enjoy? What good does laughing at some one who invested into a product that required many years and hard work to bring out do for you? Does it fulfill some inner jealousy? Unless you suffer from other emotional issues I or no one else is privvy too this currently just looks like jealousy.
In all honesty, the game wont fail in the sense you are thinking... CO and STO have very small populations compared to other MMO's and PW keeps them running. If you want to hit them where it hurts, just keep playing for free and using up their server resources.
So again to hit them where it hurts is to force yourself to play a game you don't enjoy and never give a dime to the developers because if you actually enjoy the game but boycott spending a dime on it even though you and your entire family play together and enjoy it.. you aren;t even saying I can't spare the money you're literally saying DONT GIVE ANYTHING! MAKE THEM SUFFER! I just don't understand where you're coming from. Enjoy using people and companies and living off the hard work of others for free, you're definately teaching your kids the right things to make them strong parts of society.
Originally posted by simsalabim77 So don't spend any money and continue to enjoy playing, or are you unable to continue enjoying the game because of the presence of a cash shop?
Im some ways yes, as i stated the cash shop is annoying and intrusive and it ruins my personal experience unfortunatly. Just makes me a bit i guess, sad?, that such a good game is ruined in my eyes by a business model.
Can you explain how it is so intrusive ? I barely notice it.
I hope this game is a good succes. Im having good fun so far,a nd while ofc they have made it so u are aware the cash shop is there, I feel I can play fine so far without paying any money.
I really feel sad for all of you complaining about "pay to win" and all thats tuff, wanting the game to fail. How low can you go really?
If you dont like it dont play, and if you do like it then accept the premises the games hold, considering it is a free to play game.
Originally posted by simsalabim77 So don't spend any money and continue to enjoy playing, or are you unable to continue enjoying the game because of the presence of a cash shop?
Im some ways yes, as i stated the cash shop is annoying and intrusive and it ruins my personal experience unfortunatly. Just makes me a bit i guess, sad?, that such a good game is ruined in my eyes by a business model.
Can you explain how it is so intrusive ? I barely notice it.
Same here, its not intrusive at all unless you are one of the entitlement generation who wants everything now.
Personally I love F2P, I can try a game, if I like it i can spend some cash on it, if not then i don't feel robbed. F2P means the game has to be enjoyable or players will vote with their feet and they won't make any money.
All this business model complaining is mute, how many crap mmorpg s have been made which we have had to pay for only to find out how crap they are? The business model does not determine how good or bad a game is, it simply puts the onus on the developers to prove themselves to make money instead of riding the hype train all the way into the cash station.
Long live F2P, I'm so happy these companies are making money from them, clearly it means people are enjoying the games.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Noone works for free, I still don't understand do you think the state will pay everything to those f2p games? The most f2p games have a good business model, you can play them slightly up to a decent level and after "you could be ready to pay a little bit". How come this is not okay?
I will take my my comment if you can proove you would work for free just to satisfie this strange players thinking everything is to expensive
Pc gamers are the most demanding and and believe they hold merit or deserve the right to have the best experience for their time sitting in a chair playing with a computer...people freak out when a group wipes or for some reason they lose to another player with higher gear....I get off work and play games to have fun...Neverwinter is great because I can jump on que for an instance and have FUN hopefully with a group of like minded players....who cares about the cash shop...let those people buy whatever the hell they want...it's their cash and if it supports the game then even better...If your not having FUN then gtfo...people need to stop posting the same threads about cash shops with the notion that they are part of a people's movement to abolish cash shops similar to crushing a dictatorship...lay off the keyboard general and just play and have fun! Pc gamers remember it's a hobby there's more to life...to wish a group of devs that worked on this game to fail just salidifies these type of pc gamers which is disturbing...simply put get a life...
Reluctantly hoping the OP D'ohs hard when he finds out that Neverwinter is quite possibly one of a few games where you can earn cash shop money by trading in-game currency in for it to other players and use said currency in more games than just Neverwinter.
I also not so reluctantly hope people start using more than 5% of their brain and start railing against games which are pay 2 win such as the venerable TORtanic with enough gusto that developers notice and not make other similar model games.
It seems that old developers and old P2P communities will still need a long time to wrap their head around the fact that even players who do not pay a single cent during their entire existence within a F2P game, a real one not a P2W in F2P clothing, are as important to the developer and the game as are paying players for any number of reasons (lower cue times in dungeon finders for themeparks, a more healthy and robust economy in sandbox/sandpark games, fast Matchmaking in games such as World of Tanks, etc) and thus treating them like second class citizens who have no way to earn through work in-game, should they so choose preferably through trade with other players as it helps the dev directly, what the paying guys already have is a sure way to have a one month wonder game ( peaks for one month then the PCU goes down like a rock ).
Originally posted by Yamota Good for you OP. I also boycott all F2P games unless their cash shop is fluff only, like League of Legends. And that one isn't even an MMO.
Except that League of Legends is not "fluff only." Owning more champions than the opposing team gives you a distinct advantage in picking and counter-picking, enables you to learn how to play against more champions faster than your competition, and increases the apparent roster size of your team in the banning phase, making it more difficult for foes to ban against you.
Those who play the game excessively (or since beta) or spend RP thus have an advantage over other players in terms of versatility, picking, counterpicking, experience, and resistance to bans. And this is without mentioning the fact that a player with more alternative characters is less likely to be phased by nerfs to any particular character.
DotA2 is, on the other hand, "fluff only" because every item in the cash shop (at least when I played - don't know about now) is aesthetic only and all heroes are available to everyone. Sure, they can afford to use this business model because of financial backing from Valve, but the same argument could be used against Riot Games, who now own one of the largest and most financially profitable IP's on the market.
I own 41 champions all of them purchased with IP. And no, i don't play the game excessively.
Ok first off Id like to say that I'm having quite a bit of fun playing this game. The game is fantastic, combat is fluid and engaging, the soft trinity is great, questing is fun, easy to get groups for skirmishes and dungeons and has cooperative and rewarding gameplay, and the foundry is one of the most innovative implementations to the MMO genre in a long time.
Now take everything they've done right with their well venerated IP and take a pay 2 win crap all over it and you've got Neverwinter. The cash shop is full of items to give unfair advantages over other players, and a massive amount of pay for convenience items. It's intrusive and annoying to be constantly be bombarded with reminders of how much better i could be by buying all their overpriced items.
Ok i already know the counterargument, "well why dont you stop freeloading and support the developers". Im not a cheap individual I just dont find paying for random crap all the time fun, and i believe all players should be on a some-what level playing field. If this title was separated from the cash shop and the game systems reworked based on that I'd gladly shell out 60 bucks plus a 15 a month sub, no problem at all.
Im not going to sit here and attack anyone if they like the free to play business model that's their perogative, but i am going to take a stand with my wallet and not support this endeavor. I fear if this project succeeds, which at this point i think it will, then other mmo developers will be more inclined to make their games in Neverwinters image, thus destroying my beloved genre even further. Anyway, just sharing my opinion, dont hate me too much!
now you are one sad person.
HOW exactly does a pve game sell pay to win?
if all you wish for is the failure of someone else, your life seems to be quite unlucky.
and actually the only thing they really sell in there are companions, find some friends, and you have your advantage. seriously.....
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Ok first off Id like to say that I'm having quite a bit of fun playing this game. The game is fantastic, combat is fluid and engaging, the soft trinity is great, questing is fun, easy to get groups for skirmishes and dungeons and has cooperative and rewarding gameplay, and the foundry is one of the most innovative implementations to the MMO genre in a long time.
Now take everything they've done right with their well venerated IP and take a pay 2 win crap all over it and you've got Neverwinter. The cash shop is full of items to give unfair advantages over other players, and a massive amount of pay for convenience items. It's intrusive and annoying to be constantly be bombarded with reminders of how much better i could be by buying all their overpriced items.
Ok i already know the counterargument, "well why dont you stop freeloading and support the developers". Im not a cheap individual I just dont find paying for random crap all the time fun, and i believe all players should be on a some-what level playing field. If this title was separated from the cash shop and the game systems reworked based on that I'd gladly shell out 60 bucks plus a 15 a month sub, no problem at all.
Im not going to sit here and attack anyone if they like the free to play business model that's their perogative, but i am going to take a stand with my wallet and not support this endeavor. I fear if this project succeeds, which at this point i think it will, then other mmo developers will be more inclined to make their games in Neverwinters image, thus destroying my beloved genre even further. Anyway, just sharing my opinion, dont hate me too much!
Okay, please tell me what exactly gives you an advatnage over other players? I have actually bought from the shop, around $70's worth of goods. I have not come across a single thing that gives an advantage over others. So, what do you consider to be an advantage?
As for convenience items you are right on that, considering that is the majority of the transactions on the shop, but you can do everything in the game without them. Nothing about them makes anything exclusive to do in the game. Now, I understand people want just 'fluff' items but, you need to understand this is a business model for a F2P game. Fluff items simply do not generate enough income to sustain the game. It's as simple as that.
But anyhow, I can't see how any of this affects you. So please, give me your thoughts as well as personal experiences in game where you have been dis-advantaged due to someone buying form the shop. Because I really can't see how that is.
you do release that they have to generate income some how and just a 60 box price would not work for a mmo. theres upkeep and additional content.
GW2
Has a cash shop almost on par with Neverwinter...
Actually, GW2 is IMHO more Pay-to-Win than NWO is.
For example, in GW2 you can buy rare cultural armor for gold (obtained by buying diamonds for real money) and own people in WvWvW who did not obtain armor of such quality (either through gameplay or paying). How cool is that? NW's cash shop does not have armor or weapons.
Originally posted by simsalabim77 So don't spend any money and continue to enjoy playing, or are you unable to continue enjoying the game because of the presence of a cash shop?
Im some ways yes, as i stated the cash shop is annoying and intrusive and it ruins my personal experience unfortunatly. Just makes me a bit i guess, sad?, that such a good game is ruined in my eyes by a business model.
Can you explain how it is so intrusive ? I barely notice it.
Identify scrolls, treasure chest keys, bigger healing pots, high end gems/runes (and mounting them in items), bags, and a whole ton of other stuff that does not drop and is needed, all to be found in the cash shop, of course. Sure, you get afford a few of those things with game generated AD, but not near enough at the higher levels, AND while you are buying some of the smaller items I mentioned with refined AD, you are NOT saving it for any of the higher end items in the shop, and thus must pay cash. Good luck not noticing it at the higher levels.
As I understand it, all boss drops are BoE, so they can be sold for AD and that currency can be bought with zen. So you could spend a lot of cash for zen, then use the zen to buy AD to use in the auction house to buy your end game epics.
One scenario could be that everyone rolls need, sells the stuff on the AH and the prices would be undercut all the time so everyone could buy cheap epics
Ok first off Id like to say that I'm having quite a bit of fun playing this game. The game is fantastic, combat is fluid and engaging, the soft trinity is great, questing is fun, easy to get groups for skirmishes and dungeons and has cooperative and rewarding gameplay, and the foundry is one of the most innovative implementations to the MMO genre in a long time.
Now take everything they've done right with their well venerated IP and take a pay 2 win crap all over it and you've got Neverwinter. The cash shop is full of items to give unfair advantages over other players, and a massive amount of pay for convenience items. It's intrusive and annoying to be constantly be bombarded with reminders of how much better i could be by buying all their overpriced items.
Ok i already know the counterargument, "well why dont you stop freeloading and support the developers". Im not a cheap individual I just dont find paying for random crap all the time fun, and i believe all players should be on a some-what level playing field. If this title was separated from the cash shop and the game systems reworked based on that I'd gladly shell out 60 bucks plus a 15 a month sub, no problem at all.
Im not going to sit here and attack anyone if they like the free to play business model that's their perogative, but i am going to take a stand with my wallet and not support this endeavor. I fear if this project succeeds, which at this point i think it will, then other mmo developers will be more inclined to make their games in Neverwinters image, thus destroying my beloved genre even further. Anyway, just sharing my opinion, dont hate me too much!
I have to say I mostly disagree with the OP....but he is right about the almost constant "so and so has recieved anArmored Nightmare". I'm cool with every thing else but that is annoying. I totally understand why they doit ,it does bug me
No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin
you do release that they have to generate income some how and just a 60 box price would not work for a mmo. theres upkeep and additional content.
GW2
Has a cash shop almost on par with Neverwinter...
Actually, GW2 is IMHO more Pay-to-Win than NWO is.
For example, in GW2 you can buy rare cultural armor for gold (obtained by buying diamonds for real money) and own people in WvWvW who did not obtain armor of such quality (either through gameplay or paying). How cool is that? NW's cash shop does not have armor or weapons.
Also, infamous Lockboxes exist in both games.
Umm, the cultural armor, is pretty much purely cosmetic. Yea its "rare" and has Rare quality stats, but you could but a piece of rare armor, with equivalent stats, for like 10-20 silver, vs a piece of cultural armor for like 45 gold. Not to mention, rare armor isnt even the best, you gotta get a set of exotic to be the best armor/weapon.
Exotic armor, is also fairly easy to get through normal game play.
People who think this game is pay-to-win are wrong.
Yes there is a cash shop, but if you did any sort of research on the game you'd see the only items you can buy in it are cosmetic, quality of life & time saving items. There are not "+4 maces of doom" etc... in the store.
If you want items in this game all you actually have to do is play it, invest your own time in the game & you can get any of the rewards eventually.
*IF* this time investment is too long for some of you, that does not equate to the game being pay-to-win. Some players just want the game to be free to download & after a week of playing it, get everything else they want for free too. A week later they /quit. Those players need a reality check.
Finally, I'm level 60 in this game now. It took me a week & 2 days play time. Now that i'm 60 I can run Epic dungeons for loot, and even if I don't get any loot cause of bad luck rolling, I still get some seals off the bosses. With these you can buy the T1 armor set stuff which is the best gear in the game. HOW THE F**K IS THAT PAY TO WIN????
People, get your facts straight before you start posting lies on forums.
you do release that they have to generate income some how and just a 60 box price would not work for a mmo. theres upkeep and additional content.
GW2
Has a cash shop almost on par with Neverwinter...
Actually, GW2 is IMHO more Pay-to-Win than NWO is.
For example, in GW2 you can buy rare cultural armor for gold (obtained by buying diamonds for real money) and own people in WvWvW who did not obtain armor of such quality (either through gameplay or paying). How cool is that? NW's cash shop does not have armor or weapons.
Also, infamous Lockboxes exist in both games.
Umm, the cultural armor, is pretty much purely cosmetic. Yea its "rare" and has Rare quality stats, but you could but a piece of rare armor, with equivalent stats, for like 10-20 silver, vs a piece of cultural armor for like 45 gold. Not to mention, rare armor isnt even the best, you gotta get a set of exotic to be the best armor/weapon.
Exotic armor, is also fairly easy to get through normal game play.
Well, cultural armor is primarily cosmetic, but it also has very high stats, which my character's armor (fresh lvl80) does not have. If I want to get such stats, I would have to "grind" either dungeons or crafting mats or dynamic events. Or just buy them with gold (either cultural armor or off the auction house), which I don't have unless I get it for real money.
Originally posted by Yamota Good for you OP. I also boycott all F2P games unless their cash shop is fluff only, like League of Legends. And that one isn't even an MMO.
considering its a themepark i don't see why it really matters..
Because allowing rewards to be bought with cash rather than played for is bad for gaming. It is bad from a gameplay perspective, it is bad from a community/ retention perspective, and it encourages all the wrong kinds of design focus (gambling boxes etc).
I honestly do not know when it became ok for the mainstream gamer to buy their rewards in these agmes. Back in the day it was considered be be super lame and even cheating to buy character progression of any type (even appearence stuff, which is actually a form of progression in these games, especially PvE ones).
In a game, where appearence items are played for and sought after, is not getting what you want 'winning'? Is buying that reward from a cash shop not 'paying to win' in a sense?
Besides that, do we really want virtual knitting simulators with strapped on cash shops embodying the next generation of MMORPGs?
wait, where do you buy the pay to win stuff again? i play this game and havent spent a single zen and i dont see a damn thing to spend it on other then keys for boxes to try and get mounts from or the pve health stone. if you mean the pve health stone, its just a potion with charges, potions drop faster then anyone can use them unless you are bad. + you can have a healer companion with you and not even ever use potions unless you are bad.
I fear if this project succeeds, which at this point i think it will, then other mmo developers will be more inclined to make their games in Neverwinters image, thus destroying my beloved genre even further. Anyway, just sharing my opinion, dont hate me too much!
Here's the thing, OP: Neverwinter doesn't have to succeed or fail for that to happen. Free To Play games are more likely to run in the black, budget-wise. The writing, as they say, has been on the wall for a long time now.
To put it the way Yahtzee did: "That ship has sailed, circumnavigated the globe, and returned to port laden with exotic spice."
Having said that, I'm still not seeing anything in this cash shop that would give me an unfair advantage over anyone. Can someone point me to something specific that is in the cash shop that is unbalancing?
Comments
There's a difference between a fallacy and an interpretation. You made it sound as though you go out of your way to "make fun of" those who pay for cashshop items. He injected his interpretation of such a statement.
Why would you attempt to "make fun of" anyone for supporting the game you're playing? Regardless of how you feel about the company, that doesn't hurt the company and I sure as shit bet it doesn't bother those who you would attempt to make fun of, it's simply pathetic juvenile behavior. The only thing you'd be accomplishing is looking like a tool.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Cool now let's nit pick your original post shall we?
"The best thing you can do if you hate the financial model is play for free."
So your saying force yourself to play a game you don't like for free or to play a game you do like for free?
"I will play for free with my kids and none of us will give Craptic a dime."
Oh so you're getting enjoyment out of the product and even letting your kids get enjoyment out of it but overall you're to cheap too pay for something that provides you and your family enjoyment... Nice one dad
"When we see people who have purchased stuff we will laugh at them and make fun of them in groups. "
Oh so while claiming to be a low life taking and not giving you also will pull online bully tactics against those who feel like rewarding a company for a product they enjoy? What good does laughing at some one who invested into a product that required many years and hard work to bring out do for you? Does it fulfill some inner jealousy? Unless you suffer from other emotional issues I or no one else is privvy too this currently just looks like jealousy.
In all honesty, the game wont fail in the sense you are thinking... CO and STO have very small populations compared to other MMO's and PW keeps them running. If you want to hit them where it hurts, just keep playing for free and using up their server resources.
So again to hit them where it hurts is to force yourself to play a game you don't enjoy and never give a dime to the developers because if you actually enjoy the game but boycott spending a dime on it even though you and your entire family play together and enjoy it.. you aren;t even saying I can't spare the money you're literally saying DONT GIVE ANYTHING! MAKE THEM SUFFER! I just don't understand where you're coming from. Enjoy using people and companies and living off the hard work of others for free, you're definately teaching your kids the right things to make them strong parts of society.
Im some ways yes, as i stated the cash shop is annoying and intrusive and it ruins my personal experience unfortunatly. Just makes me a bit i guess, sad?, that such a good game is ruined in my eyes by a business model.
Can you explain how it is so intrusive ? I barely notice it.I hope this game is a good succes. Im having good fun so far,a nd while ofc they have made it so u are aware the cash shop is there, I feel I can play fine so far without paying any money.
I really feel sad for all of you complaining about "pay to win" and all thats tuff, wanting the game to fail. How low can you go really?
If you dont like it dont play, and if you do like it then accept the premises the games hold, considering it is a free to play game.
Same here, its not intrusive at all unless you are one of the entitlement generation who wants everything now.
Personally I love F2P, I can try a game, if I like it i can spend some cash on it, if not then i don't feel robbed. F2P means the game has to be enjoyable or players will vote with their feet and they won't make any money.
All this business model complaining is mute, how many crap mmorpg s have been made which we have had to pay for only to find out how crap they are? The business model does not determine how good or bad a game is, it simply puts the onus on the developers to prove themselves to make money instead of riding the hype train all the way into the cash station.
Long live F2P, I'm so happy these companies are making money from them, clearly it means people are enjoying the games.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
Noone works for free, I still don't understand do you think the state will pay everything to those f2p games? The most f2p games have a good business model, you can play them slightly up to a decent level and after "you could be ready to pay a little bit". How come this is not okay?
I will take my my comment if you can proove you would work for free just to satisfie this strange players thinking everything is to expensive
Reluctantly hoping the OP D'ohs hard when he finds out that Neverwinter is quite possibly one of a few games where you can earn cash shop money by trading in-game currency in for it to other players and use said currency in more games than just Neverwinter.
I also not so reluctantly hope people start using more than 5% of their brain and start railing against games which are pay 2 win such as the venerable TORtanic with enough gusto that developers notice and not make other similar model games.
It seems that old developers and old P2P communities will still need a long time to wrap their head around the fact that even players who do not pay a single cent during their entire existence within a F2P game, a real one not a P2W in F2P clothing, are as important to the developer and the game as are paying players for any number of reasons (lower cue times in dungeon finders for themeparks, a more healthy and robust economy in sandbox/sandpark games, fast Matchmaking in games such as World of Tanks, etc) and thus treating them like second class citizens who have no way to earn through work in-game, should they so choose preferably through trade with other players as it helps the dev directly, what the paying guys already have is a sure way to have a one month wonder game ( peaks for one month then the PCU goes down like a rock ).
GW2
I own 41 champions all of them purchased with IP. And no, i don't play the game excessively.
Has a cash shop almost on par with Neverwinter...
now you are one sad person.
HOW exactly does a pve game sell pay to win?
if all you wish for is the failure of someone else, your life seems to be quite unlucky.
and actually the only thing they really sell in there are companions, find some friends, and you have your advantage. seriously.....
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Okay, please tell me what exactly gives you an advatnage over other players? I have actually bought from the shop, around $70's worth of goods. I have not come across a single thing that gives an advantage over others. So, what do you consider to be an advantage?
As for convenience items you are right on that, considering that is the majority of the transactions on the shop, but you can do everything in the game without them. Nothing about them makes anything exclusive to do in the game. Now, I understand people want just 'fluff' items but, you need to understand this is a business model for a F2P game. Fluff items simply do not generate enough income to sustain the game. It's as simple as that.
But anyhow, I can't see how any of this affects you. So please, give me your thoughts as well as personal experiences in game where you have been dis-advantaged due to someone buying form the shop. Because I really can't see how that is.
Actually, GW2 is IMHO more Pay-to-Win than NWO is.
For example, in GW2 you can buy rare cultural armor for gold (obtained by buying diamonds for real money) and own people in WvWvW who did not obtain armor of such quality (either through gameplay or paying). How cool is that? NW's cash shop does not have armor or weapons.
Also, infamous Lockboxes exist in both games.
Im some ways yes, as i stated the cash shop is annoying and intrusive and it ruins my personal experience unfortunatly. Just makes me a bit i guess, sad?, that such a good game is ruined in my eyes by a business model.
Can you explain how it is so intrusive ? I barely notice it.
Identify scrolls, treasure chest keys, bigger healing pots, high end gems/runes (and mounting them in items), bags, and a whole ton of other stuff that does not drop and is needed, all to be found in the cash shop, of course. Sure, you get afford a few of those things with game generated AD, but not near enough at the higher levels, AND while you are buying some of the smaller items I mentioned with refined AD, you are NOT saving it for any of the higher end items in the shop, and thus must pay cash. Good luck not noticing it at the higher levels.As I understand it, all boss drops are BoE, so they can be sold for AD and that currency can be bought with zen. So you could spend a lot of cash for zen, then use the zen to buy AD to use in the auction house to buy your end game epics.
One scenario could be that everyone rolls need, sells the stuff on the AH and the prices would be undercut all the time so everyone could buy cheap epics
I have to say I mostly disagree with the OP....but he is right about the almost constant "so and so has recieved anArmored Nightmare". I'm cool with every thing else but that is annoying. I totally understand why they doit ,it does bug me
No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin
Umm, the cultural armor, is pretty much purely cosmetic. Yea its "rare" and has Rare quality stats, but you could but a piece of rare armor, with equivalent stats, for like 10-20 silver, vs a piece of cultural armor for like 45 gold. Not to mention, rare armor isnt even the best, you gotta get a set of exotic to be the best armor/weapon.
Exotic armor, is also fairly easy to get through normal game play.
People who think this game is pay-to-win are wrong.
Yes there is a cash shop, but if you did any sort of research on the game you'd see the only items you can buy in it are cosmetic, quality of life & time saving items. There are not "+4 maces of doom" etc... in the store.
If you want items in this game all you actually have to do is play it, invest your own time in the game & you can get any of the rewards eventually.
*IF* this time investment is too long for some of you, that does not equate to the game being pay-to-win. Some players just want the game to be free to download & after a week of playing it, get everything else they want for free too. A week later they /quit. Those players need a reality check.
Finally, I'm level 60 in this game now. It took me a week & 2 days play time. Now that i'm 60 I can run Epic dungeons for loot, and even if I don't get any loot cause of bad luck rolling, I still get some seals off the bosses. With these you can buy the T1 armor set stuff which is the best gear in the game. HOW THE F**K IS THAT PAY TO WIN????
People, get your facts straight before you start posting lies on forums.
Well, cultural armor is primarily cosmetic, but it also has very high stats, which my character's armor (fresh lvl80) does not have. If I want to get such stats, I would have to "grind" either dungeons or crafting mats or dynamic events. Or just buy them with gold (either cultural armor or off the auction house), which I don't have unless I get it for real money.
Because allowing rewards to be bought with cash rather than played for is bad for gaming. It is bad from a gameplay perspective, it is bad from a community/ retention perspective, and it encourages all the wrong kinds of design focus (gambling boxes etc).
I honestly do not know when it became ok for the mainstream gamer to buy their rewards in these agmes. Back in the day it was considered be be super lame and even cheating to buy character progression of any type (even appearence stuff, which is actually a form of progression in these games, especially PvE ones).
In a game, where appearence items are played for and sought after, is not getting what you want 'winning'? Is buying that reward from a cash shop not 'paying to win' in a sense?
Besides that, do we really want virtual knitting simulators with strapped on cash shops embodying the next generation of MMORPGs?
Here's the thing, OP: Neverwinter doesn't have to succeed or fail for that to happen. Free To Play games are more likely to run in the black, budget-wise. The writing, as they say, has been on the wall for a long time now.
To put it the way Yahtzee did: "That ship has sailed, circumnavigated the globe, and returned to port laden with exotic spice."
Having said that, I'm still not seeing anything in this cash shop that would give me an unfair advantage over anyone. Can someone point me to something specific that is in the cash shop that is unbalancing?