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Camelot Unchained will have PvE

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  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Member CommonPosts: 2,556
    Originally posted by sethman75

    I think it's a waste of time to put in token PvE content.

    I don't pvp but i think the game needs to offer something unique for the players that want to focus on pvp.

    That also applies to PvE games as well......ahem TESO

     

    It's not token PvE. It has a purpose. The PvE is there to feed raw materials for the crafting. It has to come from somewhere.

  • OlgarkOlgark Member UncommonPosts: 342

    I must admit I saw the "no pve content " thing in this Kickstarter page when it was on there and then dismissed the game completely. Thinking to myself " oh no not another Chivalry: Medieval Warfare.

     

    Maybe if they had explained it better I would of made a pledge.

    image

  • FlyinDutchman87FlyinDutchman87 Member UncommonPosts: 335

    There isn't any "standard" PvE...

     

    There are no quest hubs, no Loot drops, and no gear grind. 

     

    There will be Mobs, and there will be at least one dungeon full of monsters and bosses. However your not killing them for loot. 

     

    The game is about 3 faction warfare. It's more akin to Planetside 2 in a fantasy tab-target combat setting than Chivalry. 

  • burdock2burdock2 Member UncommonPosts: 420
    Dont you think, to make it a fully immersion world, for people that want to do it, you would have pve? Even sandbox games like swg and the repopulation have pve! Perhaps make it a stretch goal, which would attract the pve crowd back and give them more money and more people, making the rvr more fun!
  • collektcollekt Member UncommonPosts: 328
    Originally posted by burdock2
    Dont you think, to make it a fully immersion world, for people that want to do it, you would have pve? Even sandbox games like swg and the repopulation have pve! Perhaps make it a stretch goal, which would attract the pve crowd back and give them more money and more people, making the rvr more fun!

    One of the upsides of this game is that the lack of PvE leaves them a lot more time to perfect the RvR experience. It's a niche game for this type of player. Don't expect them to start homogenizing the game to be like everything else out there. That's the main selling point to me, the fact that it is different and not trying to reproduce what every other game has already done.

    Also, PvE wouldn't make the RvR more fun. If anything, it would be something to do in your down time.

  • FlyinDutchman87FlyinDutchman87 Member UncommonPosts: 335

    The problem with adding PVE, is that in order to have PVE system you would have to change the way the underlying game works. You'd have to change the way loot works, you'd have to change the way the world is designed, you'd have to change the way leveling works... You have to change WAY more than people think. PVE isn't something you can just tack-on. 

     

    When a game has a both PVE and PVP one is always going to get watered down to spend resources on the other. Combat can't work the same, abilities have to be changed, and the balance is never quite what anyone wants.

     

    Sure it would be great for CU to have a million players, but in order to GET those million players, it would no longer be CU. Then you just have another fantasy MMO with PVE, and open world factional PVP.  There are now what.... Five of those?

     

    CU doesn't want a million players, they want everyone who is tired of having to grind PVE levels in order to go PVP. They are trying to get the players who are tired of seeing major game updates where the RvR changes are stuck on page 3 in tiny writing. Where you spend 99% of your time in 5% of the game. Where your a second class citizen just because you don't give a damn about raiding, or new bosses, or new dungeons. 

     

    CU is PVP....... 

     

    On day 1, and on day 1000. 

     

    Will CU have a smaller population because of this.?... yes

     

    But they arn't going to compromise to win you over. You already have your games, let us have ours.  

     

  • dave6660dave6660 Member UncommonPosts: 2,699
    Originally posted by redcapp
    Originally posted by sibs4455
    Who on earth pve's in an rvr pvp game?, if you want to see what is wrong with that then just reload Warhammer and take alook.

    I mean, I'm down with CU's direction regarding PvE.  Also down with games without any PvE whatsoever.  But, uhh, ever played DAoC?  UO? SWG? EVE?  Lol.

    Using PvE only as a means to an end is an interesting approach.  I played Eve that way, PvE activities were only to fund PvP.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    Originally posted by UOlover

    I unfortunately have to find fault in that because he didn't mention it for the overworld, as if it was a depths only thing and he still  refuses to say pve. He needs to face the reality we are tapped out on these rvr guys who are willing to pledge to a kickstarter

    I can answer better than the lead guy can do on this particular subject he should let me help out with the AMA

    This is because "hardcore pvp" players to whom he is trying to appeal get their jimmies completely rustled at the thought of PvE, even though what they call PvE is really just bad game mechanics in WoW and its subsequent clones.

    example:

    Originally posted by sibs4455
    Who on earth pve's in an rvr pvp game?, if you want to see what is wrong with that then just reload Warhammer and take alook.


    Not only does this game need PvE, it needs to be fun apart from PvP.  DAoC had the right idea in its original design TBH, but they made the mistake of having high end items in dungeons that weren't readily contested which is a complete failure on their part.  Every dungeon should have been something of a Darkness Falls, at least in the end game.  DAoC dungeons were also quite boring compared to EQ.  Contested content is what gives PvP purpose.  A game can have good PvP and PvE.  Anyone who played EQ during the classic days knows this.

    sig


  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    Originally posted by FlyinDutchman87

    There isn't any "standard" PvE...

     

    There are no quest hubs, no Loot drops, and no gear grind. 

     

    There will be Mobs, and there will be at least one dungeon full of monsters and bosses. However your not killing them for loot. 

     

    The game is about 3 faction warfare. It's more akin to Planetside 2 in a fantasy tab-target combat setting than Chivalry. 

    You mean Counterstrike with elves.


  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,418
    Chucking NPCs into the game to fill out the maps and make them look alive is not a PvE game. Even if you can loot them for crafting goods. I have to say if they add a real PvE side to this MMO, even just open world dungeons in the PvP map I would really start looking at this game.
  • collektcollekt Member UncommonPosts: 328
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Chucking NPCs into the game to fill out the maps and make them look alive is not a PvE game. Even if you can loot them for crafting goods. I have to say if they add a real PvE side to this MMO, even just open world dungeons in the PvP map I would really start looking at this game.

    That's exactly the point. This is NOT a PvE game. This is an RvR/PvP game through and through, and if you think it needs PvE then you are not the target audience. Open world dungeons wouldn't be terrible, but most of us would much rather those resources be used to further tune the RvR experience. If you're looking for PvE, find another game. As has already been said, there are plenty of choices out there for games with PvE to get your fix.

  • itchmonitchmon Member RarePosts: 1,994
    I think the KS did just fine even with the misunderstanding, but yeah it wasn't communicated very well at first and I did picture the "planetside scenario" at first and only put down my funds when I got confirmation that yes there are mobs to kill.

    RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

    Currently Playing EVE, ESO

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  • JamesGoblinJamesGoblin Member RarePosts: 1,242
    Originally posted by Dullahan
    Originally posted by UOlover

    I unfortunately have to find fault in that because he didn't mention it for the overworld, as if it was a depths only thing and he still  refuses to say pve. He needs to face the reality we are tapped out on these rvr guys who are willing to pledge to a kickstarter

    I can answer better than the lead guy can do on this particular subject he should let me help out with the AMA

    This is because "hardcore pvp" players to whom he is trying to appeal get their jimmies completely rustled at the thought of PvE, even though what they call PvE is really just bad game mechanics in WoW and its subsequent clones.

    example:

    Originally posted by sibs4455
    Who on earth pve's in an rvr pvp game?, if you want to see what is wrong with that then just reload Warhammer and take alook.


    Not only does this game need PvE, it needs to be fun apart from PvP.  DAoC had the right idea in its original design TBH, but they made the mistake of having high end items in dungeons that weren't readily contested which is a complete failure on their part.  Every dungeon should have been something of a Darkness Falls, at least in the end game.  DAoC dungeons were also quite boring compared to EQ.  Contested content is what gives PvP purpose.  A game can have good PvP and PvE.  Anyone who played EQ during the classic days knows this.

    sig

     

    +1, some folks here have very narrow definition of PvE, that is misunderstanding of what PvE can be. If mark sticks to his " Foundational Principle #2 - RvR isn´t the end game, it´s the only game! ", WoWification - or anythng even remotely close to it - will be a non-issue.

    Speaking of fun, CU longevity will depend a lot on "downtime" quality, connected to "...warrior, crafter..." from their slogan, and PvE - solo or even group - can be huge part of it. Naturally, they will start fleshing PvE aspects of the game out later on, probably after launch.

     

     

     W...aaagh?
  • General-ZodGeneral-Zod Member UncommonPosts: 868
    Originally posted by sibs4455
    Who on earth pve's in an rvr pvp game?, if you want to see what is wrong with that then just reload Warhammer and take alook.

    I did.

    Especially in the RvR area's. Why? Well, the mobs dropped more gold and yielded way more experience than in the non-contested area's. It was part the risk/reward factor...

    image
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,418
    Originally posted by collekt
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Chucking NPCs into the game to fill out the maps and make them look alive is not a PvE game. Even if you can loot them for crafting goods. I have to say if they add a real PvE side to this MMO, even just open world dungeons in the PvP map I would really start looking at this game.

    That's exactly the point. This is NOT a PvE game. This is an RvR/PvP game through and through, and if you think it needs PvE then you are not the target audience. Open world dungeons wouldn't be terrible, but most of us would much rather those resources be used to further tune the RvR experience. If you're looking for PvE, find another game. As has already been said, there are plenty of choices out there for games with PvE to get your fix.

    DAoC had some awesome open world dungeons designed to encourage PvP. One you have to win at RvR to unlock. I used to hangout in there with my Rogue when the other faction took control of it and take out small teams, was fun. Then one where there was an entrance at each faction side and the deeper towards the center you got into the bigger the rewards, only as you did that you ran more and more of the risk of running into the other factions as they were fighting their way to the center as well. 

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,143
    Originally posted by Axxar
    I think PvE games can be great. But the whole PvE gear treadmill model is overdone in MMOs, I feel.

    Most certainly is,developers seem to not ha ve a single clue about the two words "role playing".Everything in game design seems to revolve around mini games,they are not rpg game design aspects,just content ideas that a shallow developer tosses in to cal lit a game.

    Game design should start with the basics,eco systems,survival,food drink,hunting,farming,grouping,crafting,housing.Nothing in a world should just magically appear from thin air,aside from the npc's of course who are supposed to be the inhabitants of the world.There should not be one single yellow marker over a npc's head and you should not get xp for questing.There should be seasons and weather and both should have realistic features inside the game.

    I have only mentioned the bare minimum yet i have yet to see a single developer put it all together,these games are simply business models to make a buck,they are not built with true passion for a rpg world.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 3,437

    We do not need PvE people in this game, they are what ruined Daoc.

    I am already worried about going down that road again. There are plenty of games out there for the PvE crowd, go play them and leave this alone.

    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 3,437
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by collekt
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Chucking NPCs into the game to fill out the maps and make them look alive is not a PvE game. Even if you can loot them for crafting goods. I have to say if they add a real PvE side to this MMO, even just open world dungeons in the PvP map I would really start looking at this game.

    That's exactly the point. This is NOT a PvE game. This is an RvR/PvP game through and through, and if you think it needs PvE then you are not the target audience. Open world dungeons wouldn't be terrible, but most of us would much rather those resources be used to further tune the RvR experience. If you're looking for PvE, find another game. As has already been said, there are plenty of choices out there for games with PvE to get your fix.

    DAoC had some awesome open world dungeons designed to encourage PvP. One you have to win at RvR to unlock. I used to hangout in there with my Rogue when the other faction took control of it and take out small teams, was fun. Then one where there was an entrance at each faction side and the deeper towards the center you got into the bigger the rewards, only as you did that you ran more and more of the risk of running into the other factions as they were fighting their way to the center as well. 

    Huge difference between a pvp dungeon and pve.

    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 10,353
    Originally posted by Viper482

    We do not need PvE people in this game, they are what ruined Daoc.

    I am already worried about going down that road again. There are plenty of games out there for the PvE crowd, go play them and leave this alone.

    The moment they get killed when trying to farm a valuable resource the will cry gankfest and ask for a pvp off flag. 

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Originally posted by Viper482

    We do not need PvE people in this game, they are what ruined Daoc.

    I am already worried about going down that road again. There are plenty of games out there for the PvE crowd, go play them and leave this alone.

    With that statement alone i kind of wonder if you ever really played DAoC, there are several reasons that can be considered why DAoC might have been 'ruined' but it certainly wasn't because of PVE, which if you had played it at all, you would have realised was a substantial part of the game.image

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,418
    Originally posted by Viper482
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by collekt
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Chucking NPCs into the game to fill out the maps and make them look alive is not a PvE game. Even if you can loot them for crafting goods. I have to say if they add a real PvE side to this MMO, even just open world dungeons in the PvP map I would really start looking at this game.

    That's exactly the point. This is NOT a PvE game. This is an RvR/PvP game through and through, and if you think it needs PvE then you are not the target audience. Open world dungeons wouldn't be terrible, but most of us would much rather those resources be used to further tune the RvR experience. If you're looking for PvE, find another game. As has already been said, there are plenty of choices out there for games with PvE to get your fix.

    DAoC had some awesome open world dungeons designed to encourage PvP. One you have to win at RvR to unlock. I used to hangout in there with my Rogue when the other faction took control of it and take out small teams, was fun. Then one where there was an entrance at each faction side and the deeper towards the center you got into the bigger the rewards, only as you did that you ran more and more of the risk of running into the other factions as they were fighting their way to the center as well. 

    Huge difference between a pvp dungeon and pve.

    Yes but this would be the difference between me wanting to play this game or just passing it by. Add some form of PvE and I would start following this game and maybe even buy it. 

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by Viper482
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Originally posted by collekt
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle
    Chucking NPCs into the game to fill out the maps and make them look alive is not a PvE game. Even if you can loot them for crafting goods. I have to say if they add a real PvE side to this MMO, even just open world dungeons in the PvP map I would really start looking at this game.

    That's exactly the point. This is NOT a PvE game. This is an RvR/PvP game through and through, and if you think it needs PvE then you are not the target audience. Open world dungeons wouldn't be terrible, but most of us would much rather those resources be used to further tune the RvR experience. If you're looking for PvE, find another game. As has already been said, there are plenty of choices out there for games with PvE to get your fix.

    DAoC had some awesome open world dungeons designed to encourage PvP. One you have to win at RvR to unlock. I used to hangout in there with my Rogue when the other faction took control of it and take out small teams, was fun. Then one where there was an entrance at each faction side and the deeper towards the center you got into the bigger the rewards, only as you did that you ran more and more of the risk of running into the other factions as they were fighting their way to the center as well. 

    Huge difference between a pvp dungeon and pve.

    Yes but this would be the difference between me wanting to play this game or just passing it by. Add some form of PvE and I would start following this game and maybe even buy it. 

    Its probably a truism that generally speaking, the crafting community is made up mostly of PVE'rs than otherwise, not that some PVP'rs don't craft, but those who generally get really serious about it, tend to be more PVE orientated, so having something in the game that might give them a reason to play, is not a bad idea, although obviously only being able to level up through PVP will probably remain a 'challenge' that some might prefer to pass on, having fewer crafters in the game will inevitably make the ability to craft high level premium weapons/armour a huge thing, SWG had something like that pre-nge where the best crafters enjoyed a near celebrity status.image

  • DarkswormDarksworm Member RarePosts: 1,055
    Originally posted by Viper482

    We do not need PvE people in this game, they are what ruined Daoc.

    I am already worried about going down that road again. There are plenty of games out there for the PvE crowd, go play them and leave this alone.

    What ruined DAoC was that its gameplay issues caught up with it, and it was far from balanced.  Stealthier were too powerful, casters were gimped.  Didn't you get auto-interrupted anytime someone tagged you while casting a spell in that game?  It's been a while since I've played it.  Also, what PvE they had wasn't all that great.  The PvE in that game was competing with games like EverQuest, and people who liked PvE played that instead of DAoC.

    People always have nostalgic memories of the games they played in the past but DAoC wasn't all roses and mint back then.  There were a lot of complaints about it.

    Additionally, most players in the MMORPG genre are heavy PvE'rs.  PvP is a side game in most games, for good reason.  RvR type games are dependent on decent numbers and balanced player populations to remain viable.  The minute the player base numbers start diminishing a bit, or the sides get noticeably out of balance, they become much less fun and more frustrating to play.

    So, before you wail about not wanting the PvE'rs in your game, you should ask yourself...  How viable do you expect the game to remain with just people like you, especially after a year or so when some of your people start to burn out on it or get bored and stop playing/subscribing?

  • collektcollekt Member UncommonPosts: 328
    Originally posted by Nanfoodle

    Yes but this would be the difference between me wanting to play this game or just passing it by. Add some form of PvE and I would start following this game and maybe even buy it. 

    What people like you don't seem capable of grasping is that this game isn't being marketed toward you. What you're asking for is EXACTLY what they have said they aren't doing, making a game to appeal to the masses like all the other MMOs out there. I don't mean to be rude but if you can't play this game without them adding more PvE elements, then they don't want you. You are not the demographic for this game. They are not going to change the game to suit your PvE needs. Move along and play one of the millions of MMOs with plenty of PvE.

     

    Originally posted by Darksworm

    What ruined DAoC was that its gameplay issues caught up with it, and it was far from balanced.  Stealthier were too powerful, casters were gimped.  Didn't you get auto-interrupted anytime someone tagged you while casting a spell in that game?  It's been a while since I've played it.  Also, what PvE they had wasn't all that great.  The PvE in that game was competing with games like EverQuest, and people who liked PvE played that instead of DAoC.

    People always have nostalgic memories of the games they played in the past but DAoC wasn't all roses and mint back then.  There were a lot of complaints about it.

    Additionally, most players in the MMORPG genre are heavy PvE'rs.  PvP is a side game in most games, for good reason.  RvR type games are dependent on decent numbers and balanced player populations to remain viable.  The minute the player base numbers start diminishing a bit, or the sides get noticeably out of balance, they become much less fun and more frustrating to play.

    So, before you wail about not wanting the PvE'rs in your game, you should ask yourself...  How viable do you expect the game to remain with just people like you, especially after a year or so when some of your people start to burn out on it or get bored and stop playing/subscribing?

    Personally I don't care if PvE'rs play this game or not. If it ends up dying because there aren't enough people around that want to play it then fine, but I'd much prefer that outcome than them changing the game to appeal to the PvE crowd. There's nothing wrong with being a niche game. The last thing we need is another MMO that tries to appeal to every single kind of player in the same game.

  • ThaneThane Member EpicPosts: 3,522
    The game will feature RvR-based leveling tracks for all classes. No PROGRESSION VIA PvE .

    well, it surely would have been of advantage if you would be able to read.

     

    no one ever said NO PVE AT ALL. the quote above is right from the kickstarter page and...

    well. i leave it to you to figure out it's mythic meaning...

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

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