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Why such crappy PvP?

crysentcrysent Member UncommonPosts: 841

Alright,

 

I want to play this game, I want to love this game.  I've actually kinda enjoyed the show.  I played a little in early beta.  Gameplay was alright, was different, enjoy the setting.

 

Now...Why the hell is the PvP so pointless and awful?  seriously?  The Defiant story/world/mechanics scream PvP. This game could have had some really sweet faction/objective PvP.  Something for guilds to do..instead they throw this half-ass, pointless PvP system on the side.

 

This game could have been epic if the PvP had been objective/faction based, I can't believe Trion shied away from what could have been incredible PvP...

 

Any hope for the future?  Anyone else agree? disagree?  It just seems that there is so much potential for some fun PvP in this game, instead we get 'shadow wars' which is a pointless kill fest...

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Comments

  • TribeofOneTribeofOne Member UncommonPosts: 1,006
    NO! keep your peanut butter out of my chocolate!!!
  • StonesDKStonesDK Member UncommonPosts: 1,805

    Some games choose to focus on one feature over the other, and the other usually suffer for it. In this case, PvE is the main focus of the game and PvP taking a back seat which I agree is pretty stupid for a shooter. Firefall has better PvP IMO, which is why the PvE side is the weaker point in that example.

     

    It's like that with a lot of games even MMORPGs

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  • crysentcrysent Member UncommonPosts: 841
    Originally posted by StonesDK
    Some games choose to focus on one feature over the other, and the other usually suffer for it. In this case, PvE is the main focus of the game and PvP taking a back seat which I agree is pretty stupid for a shooter. Firefall has better PvP IMO, which is why the PvE side is the weaker point in that example.

    Lack of focus on PvP is one thing, that is what Star Wars did, some crap ass side game PvP that might have set a developer back a week is what they put in a game that could have had some real fun PvP..

     

    I dunno, if the PvP was even slightly better I would get the game..=(

  • StonesDKStonesDK Member UncommonPosts: 1,805
    Originally posted by crysent
    Originally posted by StonesDK
    Some games choose to focus on one feature over the other, and the other usually suffer for it. In this case, PvE is the main focus of the game and PvP taking a back seat which I agree is pretty stupid for a shooter. Firefall has better PvP IMO, which is why the PvE side is the weaker point in that example.

    Lack of focus on PvP is one thing, that is what Star Wars did, some crap ass side game PvP that might have set a developer back a week is what they put in a game that could have had some real fun PvP..

     

    I dunno, if the PvP was even slightly better I would get the game..=(

    I can only agree

  • TribeofOneTribeofOne Member UncommonPosts: 1,006
    the pvp can only be as good as what the players put into it. you guys just have to face it, pvp is a dying genre whose small community can not support itself without pve sheep for the slaughter and frankly all the sheep I know couldnt care less about BEING content for pvpers.
  • crysentcrysent Member UncommonPosts: 841
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    the pvp can only be as good as what the players put into it. you guys just have to face it, pvp is a dying genre whose small community can not support itself without pve sheep for the slaughter and frankly all the sheep I know couldnt care less about BEING content for pvpers.

    Uh....huh?

  • StonesDKStonesDK Member UncommonPosts: 1,805
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    the pvp can only be as good as what the players put into it. you guys just have to face it, pvp is a dying genre whose small community can not support itself without pve sheep for the slaughter and frankly all the sheep I know couldnt care less about BEING content for pvpers.


    nm you were just trollin

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,251
    Because Trion's track record is so good in creating PVP games.... Oh wait, NM.

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  • BrownAleBrownAle Member Posts: 399

    Its a PVE game.  Just because they toss in some PVP stuff doesnt mean its the focus of the game.

    Ive seen developers ruin far too many decent games in the name of pvp balance.

    Also, the themepark pvp crowd is the worst. They act like they are hardcore but they play only no risk pvp games, and act like its some awesome skillfull feat and that they are special because they ignore pve.  They are constantly the most vocal crowd and often their complaints are as deep and meaninful as "i want to be better in pvp please developers code this in"

     

    With that said, ive actually liked the pvp ive participated in.  I didnt get shot gun cloaked non stop like all the "hardcore" pvpers say happens, i didnt get stomped because i didnt use the "OP" weapons or builds, as the pvpers say you must to compete..i didnt need leet gear or high skill levels.

    I jump into the match, typically score (not that it matters) top two or three win or lose. 

    And really, pvp is just something extra to do, and its fine right now.  I wouldnt base the game on pvp, use it as a break or just for fun.

     

    They have stated that more pvp stuff is comming, thats fine so long as the pve side doesnt take a seat.

     

    For pvp...i would much rather focus on pvp gameplay in darkfall, eve, perpetuum...you know a game where theres risk involved the kind of pvp all these hardcore themepark pvpers avoid like a plauge.  No risk pvp is just a side dish and should remain so...

    So yeah, defiance's pvp is just as crappy as any other game with a pve focus, and just as crappy as every single themepark mmorpg with no risk behind it...something just for fun.  If your playing defiance for pvp, or and no risk game/themepark...your softcore and doing it wrong.  Pick up a game where you lose something if you fail rather than a game where you just repawn if you fail and are able to kill the guy still wounded from the fight you just lost.

     

    I was actually wondering how long it would take for pvp to be the topic of choice for those who want to trash the game.  Same thing happend with TSW...

     

    Who knows, perhaps the pvp expansion they talk of is decent with at a minimum territory loss/facility loss, which is the only acceptible form of no risk pvp i like...at least something is at stake in the fight.

  • TribeofOneTribeofOne Member UncommonPosts: 1,006
    Originally posted by StonesDK
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    the pvp can only be as good as what the players put into it. you guys just have to face it, pvp is a dying genre whose small community can not support itself without pve sheep for the slaughter and frankly all the sheep I know couldnt care less about BEING content for pvpers.


    nm you were just trollin

    actually, I wasnt. Please respond if you have anything pertinent to say.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by BrownAle

    Its a PVE game.  Just because they toss in some PVP stuff doesnt mean its the focus of the game.

    Ive seen developers ruin far too many decent games in the name of pvp balance.

    Also, the themepark pvp crowd is the worst. They act like they are hardcore but they play only no risk pvp games, and act like its some awesome skillfull feat and that they are special because they ignore pve.  They are constantly the most vocal crowd and often their complaints are as deep and meaninful as "i want to be better in pvp please developers code this in"

    With that said, ive actually liked the pvp ive participated in.  I didnt get shot gun cloaked non stop like all the "hardcore" pvpers say happens, i didnt get stomped because i didnt use the "OP" weapons or builds, as the pvpers say you must to compete..i didnt need leet gear or high skill levels.

    I jump into the match, typically score (not that it matters) top two or three win or lose. 

    And really, pvp is just something extra to do, and its fine right now.  I wouldnt base the game on pvp, use it as a break or just for fun.

    They have stated that more pvp stuff is comming, thats fine so long as the pve side doesnt take a seat.

    For pvp...i would much rather focus on pvp gameplay in darkfall, eve, perpetuum...you know a game where theres risk involved the kind of pvp all these hardcore themepark pvpers avoid like a plauge.  No risk pvp is just a side dish and should remain so...

    So yeah, defiance's pvp is just as crappy as any other game with a pve focus, and just as crappy as every single themepark mmorpg with no risk behind it...something just for fun.  If your playing defiance for pvp, or and no risk game/themepark...your softcore and doing it wrong.  Pick up a game where you lose something if you fail rather than a game where you just repawn if you fail and are able to kill the guy still wounded from the fight you just lost.

    I was actually wondering how long it would take for pvp to be the topic of choice for those who want to trash the game.  Same thing happend with TSW...

    Who knows, perhaps the pvp expansion they talk of is decent with at a minimum territory loss/facility loss, which is the only acceptible form of no risk pvp i like...at least something is at stake in the fight.

    Agreed.

     

    For me, the PVP works well as it's an interesting diversion. Anything else they add to it is simply a plus. 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
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  • ShakyMoShakyMo Member CommonPosts: 7,207
    Op

    Play planetside 2 instead then.
  • crysentcrysent Member UncommonPosts: 841
    Originally posted by BrownAle

    Its a PVE game.  Just because they toss in some PVP stuff doesnt mean its the focus of the game.

    Ive seen developers ruin far too many decent games in the name of pvp balance.

    Also, the themepark pvp crowd is the worst. They act like they are hardcore but they play only no risk pvp games, and act like its some awesome skillfull feat and that they are special because they ignore pve.  They are constantly the most vocal crowd and often their complaints are as deep and meaninful as "i want to be better in pvp please developers code this in"

     

    With that said, ive actually liked the pvp ive participated in.  I didnt get shot gun cloaked non stop like all the "hardcore" pvpers say happens, i didnt get stomped because i didnt use the "OP" weapons or builds, as the pvpers say you must to compete..i didnt need leet gear or high skill levels.

    I jump into the match, typically score (not that it matters) top two or three win or lose. 

    And really, pvp is just something extra to do, and its fine right now.  I wouldnt base the game on pvp, use it as a break or just for fun.

     

    They have stated that more pvp stuff is comming, thats fine so long as the pve side doesnt take a seat.

     

    For pvp...i would much rather focus on pvp gameplay in darkfall, eve, perpetuum...you know a game where theres risk involved the kind of pvp all these hardcore themepark pvpers avoid like a plauge.  No risk pvp is just a side dish and should remain so...

    So yeah, defiance's pvp is just as crappy as any other game with a pve focus, and just as crappy as every single themepark mmorpg with no risk behind it...something just for fun.  If your playing defiance for pvp, or and no risk game/themepark...your softcore and doing it wrong.  Pick up a game where you lose something if you fail rather than a game where you just repawn if you fail and are able to kill the guy still wounded from the fight you just lost.

     

    I was actually wondering how long it would take for pvp to be the topic of choice for those who want to trash the game.  Same thing happend with TSW...

     

    Who knows, perhaps the pvp expansion they talk of is decent with at a minimum territory loss/facility loss, which is the only acceptible form of no risk pvp i like...at least something is at stake in the fight.

    "Act like they are hardcore" lol...as if any mmorpg players are 'hardcore'.

     

    But...the PvE isn't really that great either...so I'm curious where this "focus on PvE" has come from?

     

    Wanting to trash the game?  You need to not take anything realated to online games personally...if you are, maybe you need to give them a break..  Seems like you have a real chip on your shoulder..?

     

    Furthermore, I dont understand why you go on this rant, but, finish your last line asking for essentially the exact same thing that I wanted to see in my OP...faction or objective based PvP...

     

  • crysentcrysent Member UncommonPosts: 841
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    Originally posted by StonesDK
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    the pvp can only be as good as what the players put into it. you guys just have to face it, pvp is a dying genre whose small community can not support itself without pve sheep for the slaughter and frankly all the sheep I know couldnt care less about BEING content for pvpers.


    nm you were just trollin

    actually, I wasnt. Please respond if you have anything pertinent to say.

    I also thought you were trolling...heh..your post didn't make much sense.

  • crysentcrysent Member UncommonPosts: 841
    Originally posted by DMKano

    For a casual shooter game I find the PvP fun and stress free, which is nice after a stressful day at work.

    Hardcore PvP games sometimes just induce more stress for me (personal experience), and sometimes I am just not in the mood for that.

    Considering the light hearted nature of Defiance, it makes sense that PvP would be more on the fun side, not to say that they couldn't improve, as there is lots of room for improvements.

    Wait...I agree 100% about hardcore PvP games.

     

    I'm not asking for ANYTHING hardcore..I'm asking for either faction or objective based PvP...nothing hardcore. Not full loot, or any loot, or open world PvP, or anything like that.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo Member CommonPosts: 7,207
    Like I said, ps2 then.

    Horses for courses.
  • crysentcrysent Member UncommonPosts: 841
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Like I said, ps2 then.

    Horses for courses.

    I played ps2.  I tend to like games with balance...PvE and PVP.  For clarity, I'm not talking about, what is termed 'hardcore' pvp.  

    I like GW2, DAOC, even Warhammer in its prime.  I enjoy games with a nice balance of PvP and PvE, where the PvP isn't hardcore, but still serves a purpose, not some mindless spam fest..

  • DarthIxidorDarthIxidor Member Posts: 16

    I enjoy the game for what it is. Sure I can sit down and have 4-6 hours disappear, which is good, IMO. Is it that way for everyone? Probably not. The game is kind of a set to a specific market, people who want to watch a show, play a game based in the same world. It screams PvE, but there are supposed to be PvP elements. It's not like Halo, CoD, or others of the like. If you want that kind of PvP, go play those games. Defiance is still in it's infancy and much like the current standard of unfinished products needs time to grow. If the fan base is there, the show does well, the game continues to do decent, then you can expect a good following, good community, and a game whose life is sure to encompass the passion of those who play it. Real quick before I go; I'm not here to offend people of any specific genre or play style, nor is any of this intended to be a, "STFU and go play this or that." In my humble opinion there are tons of options out there and more coming out everyday. Eventually there will be a game on the market for you (whoever you are), until then try them out and define who you are as a gamer. You might enjoy something you didn't think you would. I would just say, just because you don't like a game or the features, play style, etc; don't bash it down to nothing. Think, formulate an educated assessment and post it. No game deserves someone trashing it into the abyss. People take a lot time and effort to put these things together and they should be respected as such if anything as art. It's a design, someones vision, and should be looked up as such. Finally, enjoy and GAME ON!

  • ShakyMoShakyMo Member CommonPosts: 7,207
    Play both then, defiance for your pve, ps2 for your pvp. Your getting the same setup as the 3 games you mention then.

    That's what I do, but I play minecraft for my pve.
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,843
    I thought the same for the year or so leafing up to beta. I was real surprised to see how they did things.
  • MargraveMargrave Member RarePosts: 1,371

    I've never been a huge pvp player. I prefer pve and co-op. I like Defiance for the sci-fi and that it's focus is pve. I dont think a pvp primary game would ever be for me. I love DAoC but upon reading that the new unchained would be pvp only I wouldn't back it on kickstarter. I know there are others out there that love pvp, but I could care less. I wouldn't care if it didn't have any form of pvp really. I'm not doing the episode pvp missions on purpose. I don't like it.

    Sorry you're not happy. Thank you for trying it though. Planetside 2 does sound more like what you might be wanting.

  • StonesDKStonesDK Member UncommonPosts: 1,805
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    Originally posted by StonesDK
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    the pvp can only be as good as what the players put into it. you guys just have to face it, pvp is a dying genre whose small community can not support itself without pve sheep for the slaughter and frankly all the sheep I know couldnt care less about BEING content for pvpers.


    nm you were just trollin

    actually, I wasnt. Please respond if you have anything pertinent to say.

    Since nothing you said made sense, I don't see any meaningful discussion coming this way, so lets just leave it as is

  • TribeofOneTribeofOne Member UncommonPosts: 1,006
    Originally posted by StonesDK
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    Originally posted by StonesDK
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    the pvp can only be as good as what the players put into it. you guys just have to face it, pvp is a dying genre whose small community can not support itself without pve sheep for the slaughter and frankly all the sheep I know couldnt care less about BEING content for pvpers.


    nm you were just trollin

    actually, I wasnt. Please respond if you have anything pertinent to say.

    Since nothing you said made sense, I don't see any meaningful discussion coming this way, so lets just leave it as is

    which words stumped you? ill try to use smaller words or maybe add dictionary links

  • StonesDKStonesDK Member UncommonPosts: 1,805
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    Originally posted by StonesDK
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    Originally posted by StonesDK
    Originally posted by TribeofOne
    the pvp can only be as good as what the players put into it. you guys just have to face it, pvp is a dying genre whose small community can not support itself without pve sheep for the slaughter and frankly all the sheep I know couldnt care less about BEING content for pvpers.


    nm you were just trollin

    actually, I wasnt. Please respond if you have anything pertinent to say.

    Since nothing you said made sense, I don't see any meaningful discussion coming this way, so lets just leave it as is

    which words stumped you? ill try to use smaller words or maybe add dictionary links

    It's not so much the words as it is your ignorance about the subject matter. I would like nothing more to educate you on how a dedicated PvP area in an online shooter makes no sense in contrast to what you wrote, but willful ignorance is one of the hardest things to punch through but hey.. I'll give it a shot anyway. You see using terms such as "sheep" and "being content for PvPers" is kind of impossible in a game where you actually queue for PvP. You probably forgot that shooters in general are mainly about PvP as well, which is why you call it a dying genre

     

    I'll concede however there's a slight possibility you posted thinking this was the Darkfall Forum so I'll cut you some slack.

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