They should make the game subscription based, but allow the intial purchase free and the first month as well; so we can guage how well the game is. F2P is just garbage in my opinion and always ends up with the lowest form of community, cash shops that are P2W and lower population that constantly dwindles down. I prefer my games to be subcription based; even if they are trash.
Originally posted by CyclopsSlayer F2P is the death of Community. Players seem to feel much more dedicated to a P2P world, when it comes to things like Guilds and group activities. In every F2P game I have played so far guilds and such groups seem to fail time and time again as people feel little need to log on and work together. RP seems to be in need of a strong group and coordinated activity, F@P does not support such.
Aside from EVE and WoW name two communities of P2P games which are dedicated to their game more than the best F2P communities, until such a time keep your opinions under the format of opinions not facts.
I have been through 3 mmos that converted from p2p to f2p. All 3 times the community changed abruptly and forever. Many long standing guilds fell apart (there have been several reasons behind this but f2p conversion has been a documented reason behind many that I have seen first hand) and the previous p2p community became extremely vocal on forums about the conversion.
One specific example which nobody can deny is Lorto. When it converted f2p the community was shattered and was never the same since. I refer specifically to the time frame when this occurred.
Do not be so harsh on other people's "opinions" as you say. When you live through those experiences they are more than opinion. They are very much fact to those impacted by the change. Despite your somewhat conceited and obviously ignorant statement, there will be many many more who have experienced the same within mmos just like me.
There are massive differences between how a p2p and a f2p game is made. It affects all areas of the game, how you access content and how content enters the game. There is absolutely no possibility that a p2p community can be the same as a f2p community.
Originally posted by GwapoJosh F2p is the only thing I hate about The Ropop.. It is a game that will need a great community and f2p brings so much trash.
Agreed. As if I wrote this myself. I take solace this way: It's probably better for Repop to be F2P out of the gate rather then be forced into a decision to convert later. That's what I tell myself anyway.
But would it help if I said I'd spend $75 a month to sub? (It's how much my wife and I spent in total per month for SWG pre-CU).
There are massive differences between how a p2p and a f2p game is made. It affects all areas of the game, how you access content and how content enters the game. There is absolutely no possibility that a p2p community can be the same as a f2p community.
That really depends on how you approach the f2p aspects. In your examples, that's often what happens when P2P converts to F2P. They generally try to go the Freemium route, which involves gating off content and selling it to players piecemail. In many Freemium games the free player is basically equated to an extended free trial. They give you a taste test but try to give you enough incentive that you will subscribe, which generally unlocks everything.
The biggest problem I have with that approach is that it splits the community based on what players paid for what content. Then based on how many other restrictions are placed it can make free players feel inadequate. It just depends on how you approach free players. Are they there solely to encourage players to pay? Or are they beneficial either way? I personally feel the latter is correct.
The f2p aspect of this game is also keeping me from getting excited about it. Not due to what it may or may not do the community but because of what f2p does to games in general. I've seen people working on the game (or at least claiming to) post in these forums about how the cash shop will not be anything that affects the game but there is NOTHING that can be offered in a cash shop that does not affect a sandbox game. Why? Because if crafting and player economy is suppose to be a part of the game then anything offered by the cash shop is something that could be made by a crafter (or be a part of some non-combat role) instead.
Also, I see two motivations for game developers going f2p. One is to breath life into a dying game (or a game that will not do well otherwise) by increasing the population so those who are willing to pay for the game will have others to play with. The other is greed. If companies made more money off charging a monthly subscription than they do off cash shops, do you think so many would be going "free to play"? There may be people who play "f2p" MMOs without ever paying a cent but, aside from those who willingly/knowingly dump large amounts of money into the game (the "I've got to have everything, be the best, get to the top the quickest,...and I don't care how much I have to spend to do it" crowd), there are also the players who will make an occassional purchase (purchasing a mount, unlocking certain zones of the game, unlocking certain class/race), those who will spend a limited amount of money each month (the "if I were paying a subscription I'd be spending $15 a month so I'm willing to spend that much on the game per month" crowd), and those who spend without realizing just how much they've spent (the whole trap of using something other than actual cash amounts as the prices for cash shop items, and only selling the cash shop currency in certain amounts...which are rarely equal to the amount of cash shop prices...so person buys $20usd worth of cash shop points, purchases a mount that they don't realize actually cost $17.50, then they have points left over so they decide to purchase something with the remaining points rather than let those points go to waste, but the item they choose cost more than the points they have left, most likely because there is very little if anything available in the cash shop costing the same as the points they have left, which means they end up purchasing another $10-20usd worth of cash shop points and on and on it goes). People who design stores know how to do so in a way to get money out of customers. Gaming companies that have cash shops aren't any different. No gaming company that offers "f2p" is providing you with a free game out of the kindness of their heart, they are doing so because it makes them money.
Not due to what it may or may not do the community but because of what f2p does to games in general.
F2P keeps games alive in general. SWTOR, Aion, TERA, LOTRO, Conan, Vanguard, Rift, DDO, DC Universe, etc, all were dying, each went F2P and it gave them all a new life. I really don't understand the argument of F2P. The Repopulation devs want a healthy game that has a lot of people playing . They don't want to die like Darkfall One, Warhammer and other games that are ghost towns because of subscription. If SWTOR, Aion, TERA, LOTRO, Conan, Vanguard, Rift, DDO, DC Universe, can't survive off subscription, no game from here on out can. WOW and Eve have something new games don't...age, that is the only reason they can continue to run that model, any other game that tries it current day will go F2P eventually. Please don't say Final Fantasy, they already failed and had to reboot, so did Darkfall.
The items sold in the cash shop are cosmetic shells. Those are not items that crafters would be doing for themselves for a profit in general. While shells will be craftable, there won't be much of a market for them. The market in those items is in the fittings.
Repop uses a shell/fitting system where the base item (armor piece or weapon) simply determines what type of item it is. It gives it the baseline values which won't be any different on a newbie item, a hard to find shell recipe, or on a shop item. They will all have the same stats. One type of a sniper rifle might be slower firing than another, for example, but they woulds both do the same DPS and have all the same stats otherwise. Shells do not take damage, and are basically just used to determine how something looks and its basic functionality. All shells are created equal.
Where the customization comes in is with the fittings. Shells generally all contain slots for 5 fittings. That's what people will be crafting primarily. Fittings are where all your stats come in. A firearms crafter could make a sniper rifle, but there won't be a lot of market for those because they are available as drops, from vendors, etc. They are easy to obtain, unless its a rare type. Their money market comes from making the five fittings for each weapon though. Those have a progression, they decay, there will constantly be a market for them.
Cosmetic items should not have any affect on the economy. If you bought yourself a new weapon shell, yeah your going to have a cool looking weapon. It's going to be the exact same weapon that another character could have gotten from doing a tutorial or newbie vendor in all other aspects though.
With regards to company motivations for going F2P, companies need money to stay afloat. If a game is going to stay online and have continued updates it needs to be profitable. Many of the games that went F2P were struggling as subscription games, then saw their profits leap significantly by going F2P. That has allowed those games to keep operating and to keep improving the games. Even if you make less money per player in F2P, you'll generally have a healthier game because you have more players, and MMOs need players. The MMO market is more competitive now than it's ever been. There are so many choices for players, and most of those games are now F2P. If you charge a subscription, your creating a barrier of entry for new potential players, where those other games are not. Unless you have a significant amount of money being pumped into marketing, that's a losing strategy.
Originally posted by CyclopsSlayer F2P is the death of Community. Players seem to feel much more dedicated to a P2P world, when it comes to things like Guilds and group activities. In every F2P game I have played so far guilds and such groups seem to fail time and time again as people feel little need to log on and work together. RP seems to be in need of a strong group and coordinated activity, F@P does not support such.
I dont think that has anything to do with F2p, its just that all modern mmos dont encourage you to play with other players.
Why do people continue to use the term NICHE,there is nothing left in gaming that has not already been done a LOT !.
There can be the odd niche idea in a game,but not an entire game devoted to the term NCHE.
The real truth is REPOP was started by a guy with little money to fund a big project,that does not mean niche,that really means that it was destined to most likely be a double A game,not a triple A game.
F2p is the ONLY option for games that have a very weak chance at succeeding,they need the F2p monicker,even though no such thing exists,just to encourage people to art least try the game.
It might be a ton misleading and down right unethical but a smart operation gets you hooked first then slowly adds more and more cost the further you become entrenched in that game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Why do people continue to use the term NICHE,there is nothing left in gaming that has not already been done a LOT !.
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Most do not use the term with it defined as you suggest. Instead they use it as a means to "backhanded slap" the game and belittle it. They want to create the impression that the game will only interest very few gamers and thus will not have a large population. In their view if it does not draw 1 million plus players then it is a niche game.
As far as the features of the game, most folks who make the statement that TR will be "niche" don't have a clue about the game's features to know if said features have been done before. They are most likely upset that they won't get another themepark game to flock to for 1-3 months, "win" it and then return to WoW. The few that do read and make such comment (niche) consider the features of the game "too much like a job" and don't want to be "penalized" for failing at a task.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Why do people continue to use the term NICHE,there is nothing left in gaming that has not already been done a LOT !.
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Most do not use the term with it defined as you suggest. Instead they use it as a means to "backhanded slap" the game and belittle it. They want to create the impression that the game will only interest very few gamers and thus will not have a large population. In their view if it does not draw 1 million plus players then it is a niche game.
As far as the features of the game, most folks who make the statement that TR will be "niche" don't have a clue about the game's features to know if said features have been done before. They are most likely upset that they won't get another themepark game to flock to for 1-3 months, "win" it and then return to WoW. The few that do read and make such comment (niche) consider the features of the game "too much like a job" and don't want to be "penalized" for failing at a task.
I say niche and I am a fan of Repop. If you think about all the gamers in the world and how many of them will be involved in The Repopulation, that percentage could be considered a niche. Eve online in the gaming world would be considered a niche, there is very few people in the millions and millions of gamers that are Eve players. I have an account in Eve and every now and again I may pop in, but I don't consider myself a player. Eve is an extremely successful game because it is a niche and the following is die hard. Long time Eve players will draw blood over their game. The Repopulation, in my greatest hopes, will sort of follow in CCPs footsteps, which I think is their goal. What I mean by this is CCP found a vision that appealed to and remains appealing to, a specific fan base. They aren't looking for the game perfectly created for the masses. They are looking for a game that they themselves want to enjoy creating and in this process create an environment that a certain type of player would enjoy. This also creates different kind of longevity for the game opposed to the 1-3 month themepark. Many of the people that call this a niche game aren't using it as a derogatory comment, imo it more of a compliment.
Why do people continue to use the term NICHE,there is nothing left in gaming that has not already been done a LOT !.
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Most do not use the term with it defined as you suggest. Instead they use it as a means to "backhanded slap" the game and belittle it. They want to create the impression that the game will only interest very few gamers and thus will not have a large population. In their view if it does not draw 1 million plus players then it is a niche game.
As far as the features of the game, most folks who make the statement that TR will be "niche" don't have a clue about the game's features to know if said features have been done before. They are most likely upset that they won't get another themepark game to flock to for 1-3 months, "win" it and then return to WoW. The few that do read and make such comment (niche) consider the features of the game "too much like a job" and don't want to be "penalized" for failing at a task.
I say niche and I am a fan of Repop. If you think about all the gamers in the world and how many of them will be involved in The Repopulation, that percentage could be considered a niche. Eve online in the gaming world would be considered a niche, there is very few people in the millions and millions of gamers that are Eve players. I have an account in Eve and every now and again I may pop in, but I don't consider myself a player. Eve is an extremely successful game because it is a niche and the following is die hard. Long time Eve players will draw blood over their game. The Repopulation, in my greatest hopes, will sort of follow in CCPs footsteps, which I think is their goal. What I mean by this is CCP found a vision that appealed to and remains appealing to, a specific fan base. They aren't looking for the game perfectly created for the masses. They are looking for a game that they themselves want to enjoy creating and in this process create an environment that a certain type of player would enjoy. This also creates different kind of longevity for the game opposed to the 1-3 month themepark. Many of the people that call this a niche game aren't using it as a derogatory comment, imo it more of a compliment.
Many that use the term are indeed using it in a negative manner. The context clues in what they write show this.
That said, I don't look at niche being a bad thing. I don't have this overwhelming need to have the games that I'm interested in to be liked by millions of others so that i feel my like is "correct" and is "validated" because, again, millions of others like it. No, I much prefer a niche title as the developers theoretically should have more leeway to make a game with more bite. The larger the audience your shoot for, the more watered down the experience will be in my view.
I agree that TR is patterning itself after EvE and will short for slow growth over time. The game I'm following, Pathfinder Online, is doing the exact same thing. Because they are shooting for niche they can do things like allow us players that backed their kickstarter to be the first in the game in EE and allow us to claim territory and form governments and laws over the territory we claim. So when Open Enrollment comes and they start letting people in a year after all the EE folks have set up player towns and started player kingdoms, those new folks will come into kingdoms and nations and factions ran by players.
You really won't get that with non niche games. Indeed non niche games shoot to make every player the "hero" so they can't do systems in which another player can knock the first player off his/her "hero throne".
So no, I laugh at those that try to hurl "niche" as an insult. I know that that is one more 90 day MMO hopper that I won't have to deal with in game or listen to on official forums try to make the game more "mainstream".
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
If you are trying to sell to 10 million people having a game considered "niche" definitely can have a negative impact on that desired goal as in some cases a game designed for a certain niche will have negative impacts on a broader audience. We do have some designs that will probably turn off some player types who are looking for an ultra-casual play style where everything is on rails, but that was pretty much a given when we first started.
Currently, we have an audience that is a mixture of SWG vets looking for something a bit different than what is out there right now . We also have some diehard PvP fans looking at our hardcore server and how things such as banking, transporting, and looting is going to be implemented to see if it is something they are looking for. We have somewhat of a diverse mixture of play styles looking at the game when you look at it from that angle, but our bar for success when measured in concurrent players and conversion of existing players will be much lower than a larger company that has to recoup their massive advertising and development costs to be considered a success. We can maintain a very modest community and do very well, but of course we would like things to be successful so we can continue to expand and grow the game.
If you are trying to sell to 10 million people having a game considered "niche" definitely can have a negative impact on that desired goal as in some cases a game designed for a certain niche will have negative impacts on a broader audience. We do have some designs that will probably turn off some player types who are looking for an ultra-casual play style where everything is on rails, but that was pretty much a given when we first started.
Currently, we have an audience that is a mixture of SWG vets looking for something a bit different than what is out there right now . We also have some diehard PvP fans looking at our hardcore server and how things such as banking, transporting, and looting is going to be implemented to see if it is something they are looking for. We have somewhat of a diverse mixture of play styles looking at the game when you look at it from that angle, but our bar for success when measured in concurrent players and conversion of existing players will be much lower than a larger company that has to recoup their massive advertising and development costs to be considered a success. We can maintain a very modest community and do very well, but of course we would like things to be successful so we can continue to expand and grow the game.
I'm a back and I've been following for a long time.. Everything sounds amazing so far but the cash shop will decide the fate of this game. I have high hopes that you will make smart choices.
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."
It's an indie game on a shoestring budget, and without any sort of marketing department. There's a large amount of MMO fatigue as well, which means any game requiring a subscription had better damn well be a good one. I don't mean Eve Online niche market good either.
The game was, unfortunately, destined to be a niche game at best. Making it F2P is probably smart because it just doesn't have the mass appeal for most people to want ot plop down $60 and a sub fee for yet another MMO that probably won't pan out.
Unfortunately your right, unless your game is really, really good, the only way to compete is to get more money then is reasonable from some people and let the others play for free just so your game doesn't look dead, aka F2P.
It`s hilarious that so many people here still think that subscription is an option. Have you taken a look at SWTOR, TERA, Rift? Do I have to name more? How in your heads it makes any sense that Repop will succeed without any budget at all where so many AAA games have failed?
Even if the game ends up as good as it`s on paper, people would still not shell out money for box and then add their credit card data on top of that. Do you know why? It`s exactly because of those AAA failures. If AAA games fail, how in hell an unknown indie company could pull it off? And that will be the mindset of majority of players that you wont change with promises. There`s huge scepticism about future AAA subscription games already. And I can tell for sure that ESO will fail fast. Wildstar seems to be a bit more promising WoW-clone, but it`ll probably go F2P too.
Also there are a few great or at least decent F2P business model implementations - Path of Exile, DOTA 2, League of Legends, Team Fortress 2, Rift and the list goes on.
Avoid SOE, Perfect World,Nexon and NCsoft (because Nexon bought a lot of their shares and are pulling the strings from shadows) published games and you should be fine in the F2P world.
On the other hand I won't pay for a MMO anymore unless I get at least a free trial period, some open beta or it is even f2p. Sorry, so much trash MMOs get released. And the only way to find out if a MMO is worth my money is to play it myself.
For the love of Talos, the knockelheads here should start to post valid arguments instead of stating their baseless opinions about how P2P is the best way because they say so.
The thing you have to understand is that the more players a game has, the "worse" the community will feel. Do you really think that all or even the majority of WoW players are gentlemen and ladies with the best of intentions and manners because they pay $15 a month? Stop spewing your baseless bullshit please. Really getting on my nerves.
All popular games have "bad" communities be it World of Warcraft, Counter Strike, Call of Duty, Battlefield, League of Legends, DOTA or any other popular multiplayer game in existence. You old timers are just sinking in your biased nostalgia about the old times when MMORPGs were niche with low player counts and actually required cooperation which of course requires being nice to others, otherwise they wouldn`t help and you in result wouldn`t progress.
As gaming has gone somewhat mainstream (and highly soloable even in MMORPG environments) since then, dicks from real life are being dicks in games no matter the business model.
EDIT: LOL at those who compare the current MMO market to 2004 or even 1999.
Originally posted by GwapoJosh F2p is the only thing I hate about The Ropop.. It is a game that will need a great community and f2p brings so much trash.
These days f2p nor p2p doesnt matter anymore the mmo community in general is just trash.
Fine, we'll compromise. I'll get my way & you'll find a way to be okay with that.
Comments
MurderHerd
I have been through 3 mmos that converted from p2p to f2p. All 3 times the community changed abruptly and forever. Many long standing guilds fell apart (there have been several reasons behind this but f2p conversion has been a documented reason behind many that I have seen first hand) and the previous p2p community became extremely vocal on forums about the conversion.
One specific example which nobody can deny is Lorto. When it converted f2p the community was shattered and was never the same since. I refer specifically to the time frame when this occurred.
Do not be so harsh on other people's "opinions" as you say. When you live through those experiences they are more than opinion. They are very much fact to those impacted by the change. Despite your somewhat conceited and obviously ignorant statement, there will be many many more who have experienced the same within mmos just like me.
There are massive differences between how a p2p and a f2p game is made. It affects all areas of the game, how you access content and how content enters the game. There is absolutely no possibility that a p2p community can be the same as a f2p community.
You stay sassy!
Agreed. As if I wrote this myself. I take solace this way: It's probably better for Repop to be F2P out of the gate rather then be forced into a decision to convert later. That's what I tell myself anyway.
But would it help if I said I'd spend $75 a month to sub? (It's how much my wife and I spent in total per month for SWG pre-CU).
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
If i want to play it, i want to pay for it, simple as that.
And i do look forward to The Repopolation, im a backer and have followed its progress for a very long time.
That really depends on how you approach the f2p aspects. In your examples, that's often what happens when P2P converts to F2P. They generally try to go the Freemium route, which involves gating off content and selling it to players piecemail. In many Freemium games the free player is basically equated to an extended free trial. They give you a taste test but try to give you enough incentive that you will subscribe, which generally unlocks everything.
The biggest problem I have with that approach is that it splits the community based on what players paid for what content. Then based on how many other restrictions are placed it can make free players feel inadequate. It just depends on how you approach free players. Are they there solely to encourage players to pay? Or are they beneficial either way? I personally feel the latter is correct.
https://www.therepopulation.com - Sci Fi Sandbox.
The f2p aspect of this game is also keeping me from getting excited about it. Not due to what it may or may not do the community but because of what f2p does to games in general. I've seen people working on the game (or at least claiming to) post in these forums about how the cash shop will not be anything that affects the game but there is NOTHING that can be offered in a cash shop that does not affect a sandbox game. Why? Because if crafting and player economy is suppose to be a part of the game then anything offered by the cash shop is something that could be made by a crafter (or be a part of some non-combat role) instead.
Also, I see two motivations for game developers going f2p. One is to breath life into a dying game (or a game that will not do well otherwise) by increasing the population so those who are willing to pay for the game will have others to play with. The other is greed. If companies made more money off charging a monthly subscription than they do off cash shops, do you think so many would be going "free to play"? There may be people who play "f2p" MMOs without ever paying a cent but, aside from those who willingly/knowingly dump large amounts of money into the game (the "I've got to have everything, be the best, get to the top the quickest,...and I don't care how much I have to spend to do it" crowd), there are also the players who will make an occassional purchase (purchasing a mount, unlocking certain zones of the game, unlocking certain class/race), those who will spend a limited amount of money each month (the "if I were paying a subscription I'd be spending $15 a month so I'm willing to spend that much on the game per month" crowd), and those who spend without realizing just how much they've spent (the whole trap of using something other than actual cash amounts as the prices for cash shop items, and only selling the cash shop currency in certain amounts...which are rarely equal to the amount of cash shop prices...so person buys $20usd worth of cash shop points, purchases a mount that they don't realize actually cost $17.50, then they have points left over so they decide to purchase something with the remaining points rather than let those points go to waste, but the item they choose cost more than the points they have left, most likely because there is very little if anything available in the cash shop costing the same as the points they have left, which means they end up purchasing another $10-20usd worth of cash shop points and on and on it goes). People who design stores know how to do so in a way to get money out of customers. Gaming companies that have cash shops aren't any different. No gaming company that offers "f2p" is providing you with a free game out of the kindness of their heart, they are doing so because it makes them money.
F2P keeps games alive in general. SWTOR, Aion, TERA, LOTRO, Conan, Vanguard, Rift, DDO, DC Universe, etc, all were dying, each went F2P and it gave them all a new life. I really don't understand the argument of F2P. The Repopulation devs want a healthy game that has a lot of people playing . They don't want to die like Darkfall One, Warhammer and other games that are ghost towns because of subscription. If SWTOR, Aion, TERA, LOTRO, Conan, Vanguard, Rift, DDO, DC Universe, can't survive off subscription, no game from here on out can. WOW and Eve have something new games don't...age, that is the only reason they can continue to run that model, any other game that tries it current day will go F2P eventually. Please don't say Final Fantasy, they already failed and had to reboot, so did Darkfall.
The items sold in the cash shop are cosmetic shells. Those are not items that crafters would be doing for themselves for a profit in general. While shells will be craftable, there won't be much of a market for them. The market in those items is in the fittings.
Repop uses a shell/fitting system where the base item (armor piece or weapon) simply determines what type of item it is. It gives it the baseline values which won't be any different on a newbie item, a hard to find shell recipe, or on a shop item. They will all have the same stats. One type of a sniper rifle might be slower firing than another, for example, but they woulds both do the same DPS and have all the same stats otherwise. Shells do not take damage, and are basically just used to determine how something looks and its basic functionality. All shells are created equal.
Where the customization comes in is with the fittings. Shells generally all contain slots for 5 fittings. That's what people will be crafting primarily. Fittings are where all your stats come in. A firearms crafter could make a sniper rifle, but there won't be a lot of market for those because they are available as drops, from vendors, etc. They are easy to obtain, unless its a rare type. Their money market comes from making the five fittings for each weapon though. Those have a progression, they decay, there will constantly be a market for them.
Cosmetic items should not have any affect on the economy. If you bought yourself a new weapon shell, yeah your going to have a cool looking weapon. It's going to be the exact same weapon that another character could have gotten from doing a tutorial or newbie vendor in all other aspects though.
With regards to company motivations for going F2P, companies need money to stay afloat. If a game is going to stay online and have continued updates it needs to be profitable. Many of the games that went F2P were struggling as subscription games, then saw their profits leap significantly by going F2P. That has allowed those games to keep operating and to keep improving the games. Even if you make less money per player in F2P, you'll generally have a healthier game because you have more players, and MMOs need players. The MMO market is more competitive now than it's ever been. There are so many choices for players, and most of those games are now F2P. If you charge a subscription, your creating a barrier of entry for new potential players, where those other games are not. Unless you have a significant amount of money being pumped into marketing, that's a losing strategy.
https://www.therepopulation.com - Sci Fi Sandbox.
I dont think that has anything to do with F2p, its just that all modern mmos dont encourage you to play with other players.
Why do people continue to use the term NICHE,there is nothing left in gaming that has not already been done a LOT !.
There can be the odd niche idea in a game,but not an entire game devoted to the term NCHE.
The real truth is REPOP was started by a guy with little money to fund a big project,that does not mean niche,that really means that it was destined to most likely be a double A game,not a triple A game.
F2p is the ONLY option for games that have a very weak chance at succeeding,they need the F2p monicker,even though no such thing exists,just to encourage people to art least try the game.
It might be a ton misleading and down right unethical but a smart operation gets you hooked first then slowly adds more and more cost the further you become entrenched in that game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Most do not use the term with it defined as you suggest. Instead they use it as a means to "backhanded slap" the game and belittle it. They want to create the impression that the game will only interest very few gamers and thus will not have a large population. In their view if it does not draw 1 million plus players then it is a niche game.
As far as the features of the game, most folks who make the statement that TR will be "niche" don't have a clue about the game's features to know if said features have been done before. They are most likely upset that they won't get another themepark game to flock to for 1-3 months, "win" it and then return to WoW. The few that do read and make such comment (niche) consider the features of the game "too much like a job" and don't want to be "penalized" for failing at a task.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
I say niche and I am a fan of Repop. If you think about all the gamers in the world and how many of them will be involved in The Repopulation, that percentage could be considered a niche. Eve online in the gaming world would be considered a niche, there is very few people in the millions and millions of gamers that are Eve players. I have an account in Eve and every now and again I may pop in, but I don't consider myself a player. Eve is an extremely successful game because it is a niche and the following is die hard. Long time Eve players will draw blood over their game. The Repopulation, in my greatest hopes, will sort of follow in CCPs footsteps, which I think is their goal. What I mean by this is CCP found a vision that appealed to and remains appealing to, a specific fan base. They aren't looking for the game perfectly created for the masses. They are looking for a game that they themselves want to enjoy creating and in this process create an environment that a certain type of player would enjoy. This also creates different kind of longevity for the game opposed to the 1-3 month themepark. Many of the people that call this a niche game aren't using it as a derogatory comment, imo it more of a compliment.
Many that use the term are indeed using it in a negative manner. The context clues in what they write show this.
That said, I don't look at niche being a bad thing. I don't have this overwhelming need to have the games that I'm interested in to be liked by millions of others so that i feel my like is "correct" and is "validated" because, again, millions of others like it. No, I much prefer a niche title as the developers theoretically should have more leeway to make a game with more bite. The larger the audience your shoot for, the more watered down the experience will be in my view.
I agree that TR is patterning itself after EvE and will short for slow growth over time. The game I'm following, Pathfinder Online, is doing the exact same thing. Because they are shooting for niche they can do things like allow us players that backed their kickstarter to be the first in the game in EE and allow us to claim territory and form governments and laws over the territory we claim. So when Open Enrollment comes and they start letting people in a year after all the EE folks have set up player towns and started player kingdoms, those new folks will come into kingdoms and nations and factions ran by players.
You really won't get that with non niche games. Indeed non niche games shoot to make every player the "hero" so they can't do systems in which another player can knock the first player off his/her "hero throne".
So no, I laugh at those that try to hurl "niche" as an insult. I know that that is one more 90 day MMO hopper that I won't have to deal with in game or listen to on official forums try to make the game more "mainstream".
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
If you are trying to sell to 10 million people having a game considered "niche" definitely can have a negative impact on that desired goal as in some cases a game designed for a certain niche will have negative impacts on a broader audience. We do have some designs that will probably turn off some player types who are looking for an ultra-casual play style where everything is on rails, but that was pretty much a given when we first started.
Currently, we have an audience that is a mixture of SWG vets looking for something a bit different than what is out there right now . We also have some diehard PvP fans looking at our hardcore server and how things such as banking, transporting, and looting is going to be implemented to see if it is something they are looking for. We have somewhat of a diverse mixture of play styles looking at the game when you look at it from that angle, but our bar for success when measured in concurrent players and conversion of existing players will be much lower than a larger company that has to recoup their massive advertising and development costs to be considered a success. We can maintain a very modest community and do very well, but of course we would like things to be successful so we can continue to expand and grow the game.
Joshua Halls
Co Owner-Lead Programmer The Repopulation
I'm a back and I've been following for a long time.. Everything sounds amazing so far but the cash shop will decide the fate of this game. I have high hopes that you will make smart choices.
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."
Unfortunately your right, unless your game is really, really good, the only way to compete is to get more money then is reasonable from some people and let the others play for free just so your game doesn't look dead, aka F2P.
It`s hilarious that so many people here still think that subscription is an option. Have you taken a look at SWTOR, TERA, Rift? Do I have to name more? How in your heads it makes any sense that Repop will succeed without any budget at all where so many AAA games have failed?
Even if the game ends up as good as it`s on paper, people would still not shell out money for box and then add their credit card data on top of that. Do you know why? It`s exactly because of those AAA failures. If AAA games fail, how in hell an unknown indie company could pull it off? And that will be the mindset of majority of players that you wont change with promises. There`s huge scepticism about future AAA subscription games already. And I can tell for sure that ESO will fail fast. Wildstar seems to be a bit more promising WoW-clone, but it`ll probably go F2P too.
Also there are a few great or at least decent F2P business model implementations - Path of Exile, DOTA 2, League of Legends, Team Fortress 2, Rift and the list goes on.
Avoid SOE, Perfect World,Nexon and NCsoft (because Nexon bought a lot of their shares and are pulling the strings from shadows) published games and you should be fine in the F2P world.
No bitchers.
For the love of Talos, the knockelheads here should start to post valid arguments instead of stating their baseless opinions about how P2P is the best way because they say so.
The thing you have to understand is that the more players a game has, the "worse" the community will feel. Do you really think that all or even the majority of WoW players are gentlemen and ladies with the best of intentions and manners because they pay $15 a month? Stop spewing your baseless bullshit please. Really getting on my nerves.
All popular games have "bad" communities be it World of Warcraft, Counter Strike, Call of Duty, Battlefield, League of Legends, DOTA or any other popular multiplayer game in existence. You old timers are just sinking in your biased nostalgia about the old times when MMORPGs were niche with low player counts and actually required cooperation which of course requires being nice to others, otherwise they wouldn`t help and you in result wouldn`t progress.
As gaming has gone somewhat mainstream (and highly soloable even in MMORPG environments) since then, dicks from real life are being dicks in games no matter the business model.
EDIT: LOL at those who compare the current MMO market to 2004 or even 1999.
These days f2p nor p2p doesnt matter anymore the mmo community in general is just trash.
Fine, we'll compromise. I'll get my way & you'll find a way to be okay with that.