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Tab-targetting poll

meddyckmeddyck Member UncommonPosts: 1,245
Pretty simple. Watch Update 9 then cast your vote. By tab-targetting I mean you can either press Tab until your target is highlighted or click the target directly. Reticle targetting means you get a crosshairs and can't lock onto a particular target. Whoever is behind your crosshairs receives the damage meaning you may hit the wrong target if you don't have it lined up perfectly or somebody elses' hit box overlaps.

Camelot Unchained Backer
DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

Comments

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member RarePosts: 6,452
    I thought he was describing a hybrid system.
  • HersaintHersaint Member UncommonPosts: 366

    Just imagine rubberbanding, lag monster, SoW buff, speed potions, then add on a massive keep defense and you might as well be a tank, cuz you ranged fellas arent going to hit the broad side of a barn unless of course you are staring at the barn door point blank in front of your face.

    Give me an ok connection and minimal lag monsters with tab targeting and I'll deal with the occasional hiccup: "How'd he get to me so fast?"

    image
  • KenFisherKenFisher Member UncommonPosts: 5,035

    Even reticle targeting is an understatement of the potential for aimed projectile targets.

     

    If I reticle over an enemy, cast or shoot a projectile, and the target cannot step out of the path of the target, it is still sticky targeting .

     


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  When I don't understand, I ask.  Such is not intended as criticism.
  • fanglofanglo Member UncommonPosts: 296

    If there is an assist button, no tab targetting will hurt the un-organized groups. The organized groups will just assist the MA. The only real person who has to be on top of their game would be the MA.

    That being said I think Tab-targeting should be in the game, except for archers. I'm not entirely sure what MJ's concern was, but I really hate archers, especially archers with perma-stealth. Anything to make it more difficult to play one would be a good thing IMHO. Also taking away tab-targetting from Archers will not really affect the "Pro's" it will just make it less noob-friendly and to be honest archer/stealthers are one of the few classes that need to have a high skill level attached to it to help it remain balanced.

    I healed Mistwraith and all I got was this stupid tee-shirt!

  • naezgulnaezgul Member Posts: 374
    Originally posted by fanglo
    If there is an assist button, no tab targetting will hurt the un-organized groups. The organized groups will just assist the MA. The only real person who has to be on top of their game would be the MA. That being said I think Tab-targeting should be in the game, except for archers. I'm not entirely sure what MJ's concern was, but I really hate archers, especially archers with perma-stealth. Anything to make it more difficult to play one would be a good thing IMHO. Also taking away tab-targetting from Archers will not really affect the "Pro's" it will just make it less noob-friendly and to be honest archer/stealthers are one of the few classes that need to have a high skill level attached to it to help it remain balanced.

    First , if its reticle targeting I'll be backing out of the game as I have poor abilities in that regard....I click qbars for god sake..... How am I going to move, target AND CLICK my qbar skills?

    Secondly, what's with the archer bashing? And how is a caster(with all sorts of CC, mind you) any different?

  • Plastic-MetalPlastic-Metal Member Posts: 405
    Originally posted by naezgul
    Originally posted by fanglo
    If there is an assist button, no tab targetting will hurt the un-organized groups. The organized groups will just assist the MA. The only real person who has to be on top of their game would be the MA. That being said I think Tab-targeting should be in the game, except for archers. I'm not entirely sure what MJ's concern was, but I really hate archers, especially archers with perma-stealth. Anything to make it more difficult to play one would be a good thing IMHO. Also taking away tab-targetting from Archers will not really affect the "Pro's" it will just make it less noob-friendly and to be honest archer/stealthers are one of the few classes that need to have a high skill level attached to it to help it remain balanced.

    First , if its reticle targeting I'll be backing out of the game as I have poor abilities in that regard....I click qbars for god sake..... How am I going to move, target AND CLICK my qbar skills?

    Secondly, what's with the archer bashing? And how is a caster(with all sorts of CC, min you) any different?

     

    I'm not a fan of reticle targeting in my MMO.  I don't have any issue as long as it isn't the only option.

    My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.

    image

  • StilerStiler Member Posts: 599

    To me a rectile/aiming system is far more "fun" when it comes to range combat, having to aim your things (be it single target/aoe).

    This can allow archers to be quite deadly (high damage) but at the cost of them having to actually use aiming and skills to hit their target then simply /target and hit the hotkeys.

    The way it was talked about in the update is that he plans to hav ea Hybrid system, it' snot a stright "you must aim for everything" but it's still open to having rectile aiming for archers and perhaps other classes or abilities.

     

    From an Archers perspective, can anyone explain if they actually find it more "fun" from a gameplay standpoint to tab-target someone, then hit hotkeys, as opposed to actually aiming your shots, taking into account arrow drop/movement and getting hits that way? (A la Mount and Blade).  Just interested on why some people find that more fun.

  • naezgulnaezgul Member Posts: 374
    Originally posted by Stiler
    To me a rectile/aiming system is far more "fun" when it comes to range combat, having to aim your things (be it single target/aoe). This can allow archers to be quite deadly (high damage) but at the cost of them having to actually use aiming and skills to hit their target then simply /target and hit the hotkeys. The way it was talked about in the update is that he plans to hav ea Hybrid system, it' snot a stright "you must aim for everything" but it's still open to having rectile aiming for archers and perhaps other classes or abilities.   From an Archers perspective, can anyone explain if they actually find it more "fun" from a gameplay standpoint to tab-target someone, then hit hotkeys, as opposed to actually aiming your shots, taking into account arrow drop/movement and getting hits that way? (A la Mount and Blade).  Just interested on why some people find that more fun.

    Because the twitch factor is far behind me......my large overworked hands have enough trouble just moving the character around without sitting, strafing then looking up at the sky trying to figure out how to realign the camera.

  • ComafComaf Member UncommonPosts: 1,150

    A lot of folks are kindly advising Mr. Jacobs on 1,000 different ideas for his mmorpg, Camelot Unchained.  I only pray he takes the good from DaoC and puts some 2013 flair on it and focuses more on what made Dark Age so much fun and so uniquely different from any mmorpg since - yes, including Warhammer.

     

    Here's to hoping :)  because so far from his latest video, I'm feeling very good about the sandbox concept being the flair he is adding.  Dark Age as a sandbox mmorpg just blows my mind.

    image
  • NanulakNanulak Member UncommonPosts: 370

    I like tab targeting but I like systems that allow you just fire at whatever is in front of you and then the closest target gets tagged and is your tab target (auto targeting).  And if that is the wrong target you can adjust manually.

    Nanulak

  • JimmyYOJimmyYO Member UncommonPosts: 519
    MMo targeting systems need some big innovation, especially concerning multiple targets and/or swarms of targets. I don't find tab or action based particularly enjoyable but I also don't have a better plan.
  • fanglofanglo Member UncommonPosts: 296
    Originally posted by naezgul
    Originally posted by fanglo
    If there is an assist button, no tab targetting will hurt the un-organized groups. The organized groups will just assist the MA. The only real person who has to be on top of their game would be the MA. That being said I think Tab-targeting should be in the game, except for archers. I'm not entirely sure what MJ's concern was, but I really hate archers, especially archers with perma-stealth. Anything to make it more difficult to play one would be a good thing IMHO. Also taking away tab-targetting from Archers will not really affect the "Pro's" it will just make it less noob-friendly and to be honest archer/stealthers are one of the few classes that need to have a high skill level attached to it to help it remain balanced.

    First , if its reticle targeting I'll be backing out of the game as I have poor abilities in that regard....I click qbars for god sake..... How am I going to move, target AND CLICK my qbar skills?

    Secondly, what's with the archer bashing? And how is a caster(with all sorts of CC, mind you) any different?

    :) Let me start again by stating that I am only bashing stealth based archers (or even stealth based casters to be fair). If a player was to have perma-stealth and be able to attack from range that advantage would be enough to deal with the disadvantage of being forced to click on your target. If you are a stealther, you wouldn't have to worry about moving or clicking abilities until after you had acquired a target. Having Perma-stealth would allow you to stand in a spot waiting for someone to come, if you are fast enough to click on them then pop out of stealth and start shooting them until they die. If there are other targets around that's where the twitchyness would come in, but the initial target should be easy to acquire.

    The reason why I like this system is because it adds a level of difficulty for archers (with perma stealth) without forcing them to lose dps or anything else that they might have. It also discourages all but the most dedicated and hardcore to play. This would help limit the amount of people playing archers.

    Lastly the main reason why I hate archers (with perma stealth) is because they are frickin RUINING DaoC atm. High Survivability means they can pop out of stealth shoot a few times and run away to re-stealth. if the target dies they get RP's. They don't even have to kill anything, just tag it. Also the ability to self-buff and have perma-stealth makes them the easiest class in the game to casually solo on. 

    I healed Mistwraith and all I got was this stupid tee-shirt!

  • BahzBahz Member UncommonPosts: 182

    No targetting, only aim/direction/projectile path based. There should also not be any name tags, else you will only see name tags moving around like in GW2.

    I like how darkfall unholy wars does it, only their engine is a bit too heavy/not fluent.

  • Teh_AxiTeh_Axi Member UncommonPosts: 380

    If it was me I'd go mainly tab targeting but have certain skills function differently, have AOEs be area targeted like in most new MMOs and have some be like MOBA "skillshots" so they travel across the map rather than towards a tabbed target etc. The idea being that most damaging things are positioning based, rather than just tabbed /assist trains.

    So I guess I wouldnt use reticle targeting in the FPS/TPS sense at all.

     

    Originally posted by naezgul How am I going to move, target AND CLICK my qbar skills?

    You could move into the 21st century and KEYBIND your action bars. Then you wouldnt have to use your mouse for anything other than camera control and targeting.

  • meddyckmeddyck Member UncommonPosts: 1,245
    Originally posted by Stiler
    From an Archers perspective, can anyone explain if they actually find it more "fun" from a gameplay standpoint to tab-target someone, then hit hotkeys, as opposed to actually aiming your shots, taking into account arrow drop/movement and getting hits that way? (A la Mount and Blade).  Just interested on why some people find that more fun.

    Let me try. I had a RR 6 scout in DAOC. If you are an archer at a keep battle, you'd usually be on top of the battlements. You'd hide out of LOS with stealth up looking for a caster you could target. When you find one, you click on him, move into firing position, and start your critical shot. When your shot fires, you come unstealthed. You are now visible to every enemy caster and archer and have mere seconds to get off 1 or 2 additional shots before you blow up from taking enemy fire. Keep in mind also that bows fire much slower than caster spells (2.8 seconds on a caster's spec damage spell vs 5.6 seconds on a scout's longbow with both times reduced by stat bonuses). A caster in the same situation has a better chance of killing the target and getting back into cover due to faster cast time. Yet oddly casters won't have to use a reticle.

    Now imagine the same situation except you can't mouse click a target to lock onto it and you don't have stealth. You move into position and move your reticle over your target. Where before you had a few seconds to start your shot while stealthed, now you are vulnerable from the beginning and it takes you a crucial second or two to line up your reticle. You start your shot. But another player walks in front of your reticle and takes the damage. You hold your reticle in position and fire again. Now you start taking enemy fire and have to retreat. You may have done minor damage to two players but you didn't kill anybody or come close. You give up and just resort to firing multiple arrow volleys to tag as many enemies as possible and soak up rps from your realm's casters killing them. How fun.

    Basically Mark (and some of you) need to get over your hatred of archers. It's an important archetype in a fantasy game and needs to be in CU with mechanics that make it effective but not overpowered. Reticle targetting is garbage. Leave it to PvE action combat games like TERA. It doesn't belong in an RvR game.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • StilerStiler Member Posts: 599
    Originally posted by meddyck
    Originally posted by Stiler
    From an Archers perspective, can anyone explain if they actually find it more "fun" from a gameplay standpoint to tab-target someone, then hit hotkeys, as opposed to actually aiming your shots, taking into account arrow drop/movement and getting hits that way? (A la Mount and Blade).  Just interested on why some people find that more fun.

    Let me try. I had a RR 6 scout in DAOC. If you are an archer at a keep battle, you'd usually be on top of the battlements. You'd hide out of LOS with stealth up looking for a caster you could target. When you find one, you click on him, move into firing position, and start your critical shot. When your shot fires, you come unstealthed. You are now visible to every enemy caster and archer and have mere seconds to get off 1 or 2 additional shots before you blow up from taking enemy fire. Keep in mind also that bows fire much slower than caster spells (2.8 seconds on a caster's spec damage spell vs 5.6 seconds on a scout's longbow with both times reduced by stat bonuses). A caster in the same situation has a better chance of killing the target and getting back into cover due to faster cast time. Yet oddly casters won't have to use a reticle.

    Now imagine the same situation except you can't mouse click a target to lock onto it and you don't have stealth. You move into position and move your reticle over your target. Where before you had a few seconds to start your shot while stealthed, now you are vulnerable from the beginning and it takes you a crucial second or two to line up your reticle. You start your shot. But another player walks in front of your reticle and takes the damage. You hold your reticle in position and fire again. Now you start taking enemy fire and have to retreat. You may have done minor damage to two players but you didn't kill anybody or come close. You give up and just resort to firing multiple arrow volleys to tag as many enemies as possible and soak up rps from your realm's casters killing them. How fun.

    Basically Mark (and some of you) need to get over your hatred of archers. It's an important archetype in a fantasy game and needs to be in CU with mechanics that make it effective but not overpowered. Reticle targetting is garbage. Leave it to PvE action combat games like TERA. It doesn't belong in an RvR game.

     

    Where in the heck did you get that I HATED archers in any way?

    I did not play an archer in DAOC though so I don't really have a point of view from it.

     

    PErsonally, from all the mmo's where  I have played archers, and other games like Mount and Blade, I simply found it extremely more fun and rewarding to play in Mount and Blade style archer then an mmo tab-target, hotkey, tab target, hotkey, over and over.

     

    With a rectile and combat anywhere like Moutn and Blade archers would (obviously) need to be able to hit at a distance. Like they mention before in an older kickstarter video, about "chaos" and how a mage fires a fireball, why should it "stop" instead of keep going until it hits something?

    With this same principle archers shoudl be able to have afairly long distance (compared to how most mmo's have it be fairly short-range). I mean guild wars 2? TERRIBLE short-range for bows, it felt so strange to come from mount an dblade to that.

    Also archers should be able to volley fire (the longer distance, the higher you need to aim your bow), so you can fire OVEr people. Arrows shouldn't travel in a "straight" line to the end. Arrows need to drop over distance and thus people have to aim to account for this.

    Also you're talking a lot about mechanics, saying archers can't deal x dmg or whatever. Obviousl with this being a new game it'd have to be tested, balanced, etc. If archers did minimal damage and were naturally harder to play (IE because of having to aim) it wouldn't make much sense.

    By having archers required to actually aim, you can in reiturn give them higher-damage output compared to say, a lock-on/tab target ability that doesn't have to be aimed (it's  a trade off).

     

     

  • TimEisenTimEisen ColumnistMember RarePosts: 3,037

    After playing Darkfall I prefer reticle.

    I used to role-play a Warrior Priest now I role-play a writer.
    "Basically if a Ninja Turtle used it, or close to it, I like it."
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