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Objectifying Women at Gaming Events

i_own_ui_own_u Member UncommonPosts: 314

I just saw an article mentioning Meagan Marie near the bottom of this page. It talks about how she is a cosplayer and works in the industry, but she is getting sick of being harassed at events. I for one think that this is a touchy issue and my response to her distress would be:

 

"Very touchy issue to get involved in to be honest. I have seen PLENTY of cosplayers that use these "sexy" costumes to their advantage. And those people definitely are begging for attention to themselves. 

It is unfair to those who cosplay for the sake of being their favorite characters, but life is unfair. There will always be those people who will harass others and that isn't even at these events, its everywhere! Of course video games seem to be the spotlight because nobody ever expects attractive women at these gaming events.

Its an issue that will never be solved, and as long as you dress in "sexy" outfits you will be harassed. End of story. It's harsh, but it's the world we live in. "

 

I know my response is a cop out, and essentially saying that it will never be fixed, but I am intersted to hear your opinions. Don't get me wrong, it is NEVER ok to harass under ANY circumstances in my book, but it is still interesting. It goes back to the disturbing "if you dress like a whore, then you are more likely to get raped" argument. 

Interesting and I thought I would bring it here, thoughts?

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Comments

  • sacredcow4sacredcow4 Member UncommonPosts: 249

    Girlfriend wears push up bra. "Ugh, creepers looking at me!" No... you have put on display something attractive and are now getting the attention you wanted. IF YOU DIDN'T WANT PEOPLE LOOKING YOU WOULDN'T WEAR IT. 

    Human beings are sexual creatures. End of story. Moving on. We can accept it or continue living in the dark ages.

    Same applies for men. Guy cosplays shirtless hero. Guy has ripped muscles. "People are staring at me (YAY!/EWW!) what (NICE!/CREEPY!) people."

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with admiring someone in public. Objectifying them would be forcing them to dress that way dispite their opinion of how they should dress. There is absolutely nothing disrespectful about appreciating someone's appearance. People can choose to take it as a compliment and understand people are people, or they can choose to be offended and apply false meanings to it.

     I've been here a while...
  • i_own_ui_own_u Member UncommonPosts: 314

    And I thought I should mention Scarlet Blade among all of this. Could games and advertisements like that be the reason that some men feel like it is ok to sexually harass these women? 

    And sacredcrow: Yes we are "sexual creatures." But there are boundaries. The issue with most people, however, is where the actual boundary lies. 

  • jdnewelljdnewell Member UncommonPosts: 2,237

    I dont think they should ever be harasssed in any way. But I am not suprised it happens. Especially at events that are basically geek fests.

    Me and about 5-6 friends go to Dragon-Con in Atlanta GA every year. There are always women dressed in very skimpy costumes, some what looks like professional costumes. My wife loves taking pictures of them, has posed with them ( she also dresses up) and generally have a good time with others in costume and Cosplay.

    Having said that I am sure some of the drunks around at these events would give em a hard time. It goes with the territory and they should realize that and not get too bent out of shape about it.

    Some of these costumes leave very very little to the imagination. If you put it out there then expect some people to want to touch it, ogle it, or whatever. If you cant deal with that then dont do it. Not saying thats right in any way, but that is the reality.

  • PurutzilPurutzil Member UncommonPosts: 3,048

    Honestly, I feel its far over-blown. We would need to see those done DIRECTLY rather then word of mouth. If your dressing up in a sexy cosplay, well what do you think people are going to say? "Oh that cosplay is cool!" As your chest is hanging out?

     

    Don't get me wrong I am sure some harrassment can occur, but honestly I highly doubt its remotely close to what she is claiming and its likely HER OWN FAULT with what she is dressing like.  If you dress like a cop, people are going to think your a cop. If you dress like a fireman, people are going to think your a fireman. If you dress like your looking for attention, people are going to give you attention. 

     

    I'm sorry, but give me direct proof of what happened as being 'objectifying' and let me see it in a scale that its being done a lot and I'll believe it. As far as I see I just can imagine male gamers (the demographic that get the most 'action', yes we all know we are! XD ) maybe staring at her in a more 'lustful' manor which she interprets as that but yeah, as I mentioned with the cop and firefighter examples, YOU ARE ASKING FOR IT. Even if you don't dress up, its in our very nature to look at women in such a way and if that is what is 'objectifying' to you then I'm sorry but go anywhere else in society and you will see the same thing.

     

    Until I see proof, and not just one creep or dumb ass but it done on a wider scale where you are NOT asking for it, I just can't at all side with her.

  • birdycephonbirdycephon Member UncommonPosts: 1,314
    Originally posted by i_own_u

    And I thought I should mention Scarlet Blade among all of this. Could games and advertisements like that be the reason that some men feel like it is ok to sexually harass these women? 

    Instead of blaming games, why dont parents ever take it upon themselves to teach their kids? 

  • sacredcow4sacredcow4 Member UncommonPosts: 249
    Originally posted by i_own_u

    And I thought I should mention Scarlet Blade among all of this. Could games and advertisements like that be the reason that some men feel like it is ok to sexually harass these women? 

    And sacredcrow: Yes we are "sexual creatures." But there are boundaries. The issue with most people, however, is where the actual boundary lies. 

    Ah, now that I see that ad you are absolutely right. I guess it would be OK to harrass women. That ad has changed who I am inside and shown me the light. 

     

    Are you serious?

     I've been here a while...
  • i_own_ui_own_u Member UncommonPosts: 314
    Originally posted by sacredcow4
    Originally posted by i_own_u

    And I thought I should mention Scarlet Blade among all of this. Could games and advertisements like that be the reason that some men feel like it is ok to sexually harass these women? 

    And sacredcrow: Yes we are "sexual creatures." But there are boundaries. The issue with most people, however, is where the actual boundary lies. 

    Ah, now that I see that ad you are absolutely right. I guess it would be OK to harrass women. That ad has changed who I am inside and shown me the light. 

     

    Are you serious?

    You clearly didn't even read what I said in my OP so I am not even going to address this. 

     

    As for the others, I completly agree. It just was an interesting thought I had. I recently went to the MLG Winter Championships in Dallas, TX and they had these girls in extremly skimpy outfits passing things out. Like someone said above, it is bad, but I almost expect it to happen because of the way that they present themselves. 

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,525
    Originally posted by i_own_u

    And I thought I should mention Scarlet Blade among all of this. Could games and advertisements like that be the reason that some men feel like it is ok to sexually harass these women? 

     

    No.

    It's because

    A, Their parents (or someone) didn't teach them...

    B, They had no one to teach them...

    C, They couldn't be taught...

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  • FoomerangFoomerang Member UncommonPosts: 5,628

    Instead of trying to find someone or something to blame, maybe all of us both men and women should take responsibility for our actions.

  • i_own_ui_own_u Member UncommonPosts: 314
    But the issue is, when people like Meagan come out and say that they are "mad" and want to put an end to it, would it even be possible?
  • GravargGravarg Member UncommonPosts: 3,424
    I harass everyone, but I think that's a different kind of harassment.  As for the topic, I just have to say, if you don't want a guy to look at you then don't put it out there.  Some woman walks by in a bikini, guy's are gonna look...now there's a difference between looking and harassment though.
  • jdnewelljdnewell Member UncommonPosts: 2,237

    This reminds me of an event we had in Nashville last summer. A small comic convention, nothing major like the big named ones.

    There was a comic writer / illustrater or whatever thay are called promoting his comic. One of the girls in costume at his booth was wearing very little. What basically amounted to pasties on the boobs, a G string and a cape. Literally.

    Now tell me she didnt want the attention? Should she be harassed by people touching her? No for sure. Guys stopping to examine the goods? yes. And thats exactly what they wanted. To expect anything less is unrealistic at best.

  • GhavriggGhavrigg Member RarePosts: 1,308
    Another woman dressing sexy and pretending she never wanted attention. She could also be honest with everyone, too: "I only wanna be harassed by good looking guys, the rest of you are creepy."
  • Kaijin2k3Kaijin2k3 Member Posts: 558

    It really is never OK to harass people. No one in my life drawing classes has ever done this to the 20 year old models posing nude in front of us all. There always needs to be levels of self control and maturity, which only you are responsible for.

    Conversely though, sometimes I see outfits that are just like, "you're really OK going out in public like that? You'd wear more with a bikini." Still doesn't really excuse it, though.

    But then the trap is thinking about it as a sensible person. For every 1000 guys and girls who are sensible and exhibit that self control, there's always that 1 who's  tilted in th brain who's already convinced themselves its perfectly fine, "they brought it on themselves."

    Those, well, they wouldn't care about this question anyway and you won't convince them no matter what you try.

  • megruder79megruder79 Member Posts: 1

    As a gaming community we are constantly battling mass media/politicans telling the world that because we play violent video games we will become violent. Our stance is that we are mature adults and realize the difference between fictional game play and the real world.

    How is the harassment of sexually dressed cosplayer any different? We claim to be mature adults and should realize that the cosplayer standing in front of us is a real-live human being and much more than the clothing, or lack thereof, he or she is wearing. 

    The excuse that we are sexual beings doesn't hold water. We are also a naturally violent species as well (look to our entire history of wars and murders). If we are capable of reining in our violent nature, why are we not capable of reining in our sexual nature?

  • azmundaiazmundai Member UncommonPosts: 1,419

    really not enough info in this post. are people just staring? then to an extent I buy into the "don't wear sexy crap if you don't want to be stared at" but even that has it's limitations. if you are so hard up that you need to stare at someone, the problem is with you, not with the woman in skimpy clothes.

    if it is verbal and or physical harrassment, that is a much more serious issue. No one no matter how they dress should be subject to that under any circumstance.

    LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
    I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  • DamonVileDamonVile Member UncommonPosts: 4,818
    Originally posted by azmundai

    really not enough info in this post. are people just staring? then to an extent I buy into the "don't wear sexy crap if you don't want to be stared at" but even that has it's limitations. if you are so hard up that you need to stare at someone, the problem is with you, not with the woman in skimpy clothes.

    if it is verbal and or physical harrassment, that is a much more serious issue. No one no matter how they dress should be subject to that under any circumstance.

    Still not enough info. Is she sick of getting hit on by ugly geeks ?

    I like getting hit on by women I find atterctive. Not a huge fan of getting hit on by women I think are gross. Can we make a rule only hot ppl are allowed to flirt or ask someone out ? Of course not. The better looking you are the more it's going to happen. It's something you have to learn to deal with.

    Full on harassment is of course not ok but again gamers are notorius for poor social skills so it's still never going to be an easy subject to draw a line in the sand on.

  • Cochran1Cochran1 Member Posts: 456

    The situation refrenced in the article sounds more to me like they consented to an interview without inquiring what the context was going to be. That being the case it's up to an individual to protect themselves from uncomfrotable situations. The easiest way would have been to answer, " Yeah we'll answer a few questions as long as they're not of a sexual nature."

    As for the situations Meagan heself experienced, it sounds like she needs to be more assertive. Her smiling and laughing the situations off make people think she's okay with it. If they were just being lighthearted with their conversation, then they'll understand and cease the behavior.

    In cases where a person wasn't just being lighthearted there are laws on the books to protect people from that kind of unwanted attention. Besides the fact that they wouldn't want it to stir up a shit storm putting their lives under a microscope, because if they've done it to one person chances are they've done it to others. All it takes is one whistle blower to pull other victims out of the woodwork.

  • RefMinorRefMinor Member UncommonPosts: 3,452
    I think I need to see some pictures, just so I can understand the context of the discussion.
  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Member RarePosts: 5,484
    Originally posted by azmundai

    really not enough info in this post. are people just staring? then to an extent I buy into the "don't wear sexy crap if you don't want to be stared at" but even that has it's limitations. if you are so hard up that you need to stare at someone, the problem is with you, not with the woman in skimpy clothes.

    if it is verbal and or physical harrassment, that is a much more serious issue. No one no matter how they dress should be subject to that under any circumstance.

     It ws verbal harassment. Basically  an interviewer made an  joke of a sexual nature to a group of women he hadn't even been introduced to yet.

    "We have met the enemy and he is us." ~Pogo Possum. 

  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135
    Originally posted by sacredcow4

    Girlfriend wears push up bra. "Ugh, creepers looking at me!" No... you have put on display something attractive and are now getting the attention you wanted. IF YOU DIDN'T WANT PEOPLE LOOKING YOU WOULDN'T WEAR IT. 

    Human beings are sexual creatures. End of story. Moving on. We can accept it or continue living in the dark ages.

    Same applies for men. Guy cosplays shirtless hero. Guy has ripped muscles. "People are staring at me (YAY!/EWW!) what (NICE!/CREEPY!) people."

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with admiring someone in public. Objectifying them would be forcing them to dress that way dispite their opinion of how they should dress. There is absolutely nothing disrespectful about appreciating someone's appearance. People can choose to take it as a compliment and understand people are people, or they can choose to be offended and apply false meanings to it.

    Pretty much this ^

    It's one of the many paradoxes of the human condition. Humans want to look good and feel attractive, but they also want to be selective about who is attracted to them. However, you can't really have it both ways.

    To paraphrase Louis C.K. 'Having a push up bra & cleavage is like trying to take out a single target with a laser guided missle. There's going to be some splash damage'.

  • birdycephonbirdycephon Member UncommonPosts: 1,314
    Originally posted by zymurgeist

    Originally posted by azmundai
    really not enough info in this post. are people just staring? then to an extent I buy into the "don't wear sexy crap if you don't want to be stared at" but even that has it's limitations. if you are so hard up that you need to stare at someone, the problem is with you, not with the woman in skimpy clothes. if it is verbal and or physical harrassment, that is a much more serious issue. No one no matter how they dress should be subject to that under any circumstance.

     It ws verbal harassment. Basically  an interviewer made an  joke of a sexual nature to a group of women he hadn't even been introduced to yet.

    So what is the point? We are talking about objefication here. Nothing you said suggests any objefication. 

  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by azmundai

    really not enough info in this post. are people just staring? then to an extent I buy into the "don't wear sexy crap if you don't want to be stared at" but even that has it's limitations. if you are so hard up that you need to stare at someone, the problem is with you, not with the woman in skimpy clothes.

    if it is verbal and or physical harrassment, that is a much more serious issue. No one no matter how they dress should be subject to that under any circumstance.

     It ws verbal harassment. Basically  an interviewer made an  joke of a sexual nature to a group of women he hadn't even been introduced to yet.

    That's pretty distasteful then.

    That's a tricky situation in which some people know how to pull it off without making everyone uncomfortable, but more don't. Which it's  why it's generally best for people to just keep their mouth shut with that stuff. Especially at widely publicized events.

  • azmundaiazmundai Member UncommonPosts: 1,419

    there is only splash damage from idiots who use laser guided missles instead of being polite. you can ask a girl out, or flatter her without talking about her breasts.

    LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
    I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Member RarePosts: 5,484
    Originally posted by birdycephon
    Originally posted by zymurgeist
    Originally posted by azmundai

    really not enough info in this post. are people just staring? then to an extent I buy into the "don't wear sexy crap if you don't want to be stared at" but even that has it's limitations. if you are so hard up that you need to stare at someone, the problem is with you, not with the woman in skimpy clothes.

    if it is verbal and or physical harrassment, that is a much more serious issue. No one no matter how they dress should be subject to that under any circumstance.

     It ws verbal harassment. Basically  an interviewer made an  joke of a sexual nature to a group of women he hadn't even been introduced to yet.

    So what is the point? We are talking about objefication here. Nothing you said suggests any objefication. 

      I just answered the question that azmundai asked. Not only did I not suggest any objectification occured I didn't even mention it.

    "We have met the enemy and he is us." ~Pogo Possum. 

This discussion has been closed.