Class identity and different realm crafters.

Speely

So we know that classes will be different from realm to realm.
Viking tanks will be different from Tuatha tanks, etc. I wonder
if this differentiation will extend to crafting classes as well. I
ask because this could add a HUGE dynamic to the game I had
heretofore not even considered, as I assumed they would be
basically the same, maybe with differences as straightforward
as racial aptitude (i.e. Dwarves make kick-ass armor and keep
walls, while Daoine Sidhe make amazing bows.)

Thoughts?

BowbowDAoC

I think there will be some kind of difference, but not big ones.

i.e. types of weapons / armors, bows can vary from realm to another, but i dont think that it will actually go as far as requiring different amounts of ressources to craft a long bow in Vikings compared to TDD or Arthurians.

Same will probably go for the houses, they will have different looks, but i dont see how the ressources needed to build them could be different without being "unfair"

 

On the other hand, i remember that depending on the realms, all the types of armors were not available in all realms, so for this part, i'm wondering how it'll work too.

But i think it has to be pretty damn equal in amount of ressources needed and time spent to craft them.

sweetdigs

Intriguing idea.  Balance is obviously the key here as I would assume that you wouldn't be able to trade/sell cross-realm.  Maybe there will be a black market that allows you to sell cross-realm, but that seems sort of self-defeating.

I would expect that buildings/structures would be unique to each realm, though.  For example, maybe the dwarves castles or towers have more HPs while the archer towers made by the Daoine Sidhe have a greater range.

Speely

Yeah I am with you guys. Making it racially differentiated in effect does change the class by realm, so I guess my initial question is a bit redundant.

RealLifeGobbo

I would be surpised to not see this incorporated into the game.  Both DAoC and WAR had similar things to this e.g. Alb had the the best trebuchets.  I do agree with you guys, going a step deeper and mentioning things like keep walls or what not should also be factored in.

Arbroath

I think it may be dangerous to have too much difference in the functionality of gear. The Sidhe making better bows in terms of function may deter cross realm balance. ie if I wanted to play an archer type I would invariably play a Sidhe. 

sweetdigs

WOriginally posted by Arbroath
I think it may be dangerous to have too much difference in the functionality of gear. The Sidhe making better bows in terms of function may deter cross realm balance. ie if I wanted to play an archer type I would invariably play a Sidhe. 

Well, there are ways to balance that.  Perhaps one race gets a bow that does more damage.  Another more range.  Another has a bow that has a unique ability to fire several arrows at once at different targets.

Or you could balance classes across realms based on a combination of skills and gear that can be crafted for them in that realm.  One realm has better ranger type scouts (long range).  Another has better stealth/assassin abilities.  Etc.   

Arbroath

Originally posted by sweetdigs

WOriginally posted by Arbroath
I think it may be dangerous to have too much difference in the functionality of gear. The Sidhe making better bows in terms of function may deter cross realm balance. ie if I wanted to play an archer type I would invariably play a Sidhe. 

Well, there are ways to balance that.  Perhaps one race gets a bow that does more damage.  Another more range.  Another has a bow that has a unique ability to fire several arrows at once at different targets.

Or you could balance classes across realms based on a combination of skills and gear that can be crafted for them in that realm.  One realm has better ranger type scouts (long range).  Another has better stealth/assassin abilities.  Etc.   

That seems really complex (not in a bad way), but I see your point

icedern

My thought is if the KS really exceeds, this would be really awesome.  However, Id rather not take away any rvr development or crafting for that matter.

Speely

Nice ideas and understandable concerns all around. I initially assumed that the lower number of classes at release would make balance easier in a rps system where classes were not mirrored, but when factoring artisans into the equation and all the possibilities of synergistic dynamics that entails, it's almost even MORE complex than DAoC at launch lol.

I would like to see some kind of realm identity applied to crafters as well, though. If they can balance it, it would lend flavor to rvr.

"Don't approach the TDD keep too quickly. Those archers on the walls have serious range."

"Hold up! We can try to peel off thise archers from here. Dwarven bows pack a huge punch up close, though."

"Spread out! Saracen bows were dereived from mounted skirmishing tactics and dont fire as far, but they can fire several arrows!"

Will be a precarious pickle.

ringdany

sorry. Zero interest in crafting why are we even discussing this ?

if i wanted crafting id go play in an mmo with heaps of crafting (WoW, Lotro etc etc)

if we are starting a new DAOC kickstarter clone i would not want any of the money to be spent on crafting. that would just  be a waste? its already expensive enough to get combat and scenenery up.

RealLifeGobbo

Originally posted by ringdany

sorry. Zero interest in crafting why are we even discussing this ?

if i wanted crafting id go play in an mmo with heaps of crafting (WoW, Lotro etc etc)

if we are starting a new DAOC kickstarter clone i would not want any of the money to be spent on crafting. that would just  be a waste? its already expensive enough to get combat and scenenery up.

First off, this is not a DAoC clone.  Is there going to be DAoC elements?  Certainly.  Why does crafting matter?  Crafting is going to have a huge impact on the game and there will be classes dedicated to it.  Unlike WoW and various others, you will MAYBE get your crafting skills halfway up, if you are not playing a crafter.

Speely

Lol ringdany I think you accidentally came to the wrong forum. Half this game is crafting.

sweetdigs

Originally posted by ringdany

sorry. Zero interest in crafting why are we even discussing this ?

if i wanted crafting id go play in an mmo with heaps of crafting (WoW, Lotro etc etc)

if we are starting a new DAOC kickstarter clone i would not want any of the money to be spent on crafting. that would just  be a waste? its already expensive enough to get combat and scenenery up.

You might want to at least semi-educate yourself on this game before you start shouting from the rooftops.

ringdany

im entitled to say my piece. I read a bit about Cam Unch and no, i am not interested in any massive crafting in an RvR game like DAOC. DAOC had heaps of crafting but i never found it of interest well ill keep quiet and listen to you guys more. maybe there is something fun in crafting?

Speely

@ringdany

Fair enough bud. I am not into crafting either. However, I am very intrigued by the dynamics between crafters and rvrers, as the only gear in this game is crafter-based, and will be involved in the rvr process by virtue of the gear and seige, at the least.

So I share your lack of desire to craft personally, but I am VERY intrigued by the possibilities it offers.

Arbroath

Originally posted by PerfArt
@ringdany

Fair enough bud. I am not into crafting either. However, I am very intrigued by the dynamics between crafters and rvrers, as the only gear in this game is crafter-based, and will be involved in the rvr process by virtue of the gear and seige, at the least.

So I share your lack of desire to craft personally, but I am VERY intrigued by the possibilities it offers.

First off, don't pay Ringdany any attention. He's been trolling the other threads too. Secondly, Im glad there are a lot of people that don't like crafting. That means I'll be even more sought after :P

Stiler

Originally posted by ringdany
im entitled to say my piece. I read a bit about Cam Unch and no, i am not interested in any massive crafting in an RvR game like DAOC. DAOC had heaps of crafting but i never found it of interest well ill keep quiet and listen to you guys more. maybe there is something fun in crafting?

CU isn't going to have any PVE really (There will be npc's, but no "loot drops" or questing) sot he burden of Gear lies ini the hands of player crafters.

 

You don't have to craft, you can play as normal in RVR, you will simply have to buy your goods from player crafters.

Arbroath

Originally posted by Stiler

Originally posted by ringdany
im entitled to say my piece. I read a bit about Cam Unch and no, i am not interested in any massive crafting in an RvR game like DAOC. DAOC had heaps of crafting but i never found it of interest well ill keep quiet and listen to you guys more. maybe there is something fun in crafting?

CU isn't going to have any PVE really (There will be npc's, but no "loot drops" or questing) sot he burden of Gear lies ini the hands of player crafters.

 

You don't have to craft, you can play as normal in RVR, you will simply have to buy your goods from player crafters.

And Im not selling you any :P

Speely

Haha Arbroath I just like to play nice. Also, I am coming to you for my goods, and escorting you to your resources.

Actually this brings up a good point (i think.) The builds that combatants make could certainly be affected by their ability to protect crafters in rvr zones. More dynamics: do I want to be a l337 pwnage bomb or spec for protection and get this crafter on my side by helping him/her collect resources? Also, how is my play style going to be dictated by these disparate motivations? Choice.

The more I think about it, the more it seems to work in a rvr setting.

fanglo

Originally posted by PerfArt
Haha Arbroath I just like to play nice. Also, I am coming to you for my goods, and escorting you to your resources.

Actually this brings up a good point (i think.) The builds that combatants make could certainly be affected by their ability to protect crafters in rvr zones. More dynamics: do I want to be a l337 pwnage bomb or spec for protection and get this crafter on my side by helping him/her collect resources? Also, how is my play style going to be dictated by these disparate motivations? Choice.

The more I think about it, the more it seems to work in a rvr setting.

The bomb groups will use crafters as bait to lure players away from their keeps.

Arbroath

Originally posted by PerfArt
Haha Arbroath I just like to play nice. Also, I am coming to you for my goods, and escorting you to your resources.
 

You, sir, will then get the deep discounted "protectors" rate for you gear needs :P

Arbroath

Originally posted by fanglo

Originally posted by PerfArt
Haha Arbroath I just like to play nice. Also, I am coming to you for my goods, and escorting you to your resources.

Actually this brings up a good point (i think.) The builds that combatants make could certainly be affected by their ability to protect crafters in rvr zones. More dynamics: do I want to be a l337 pwnage bomb or spec for protection and get this crafter on my side by helping him/her collect resources? Also, how is my play style going to be dictated by these disparate motivations? Choice.

The more I think about it, the more it seems to work in a rvr setting.

The bomb groups will use crafters as bait to lure players away from their keeps.

I dont think I care for this idea. Could you delete your post please :P