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Originally posted by Tontoman Originally posted by wrath04 Originally posted by Tontoman And yes, if you want a productive discussion, you'll have to cut the retoric down on BOTH sides. Folks defending any criticism on any decision CRS made just end up trolling the thread, as much as the 'CRS bites' ones.
I agree with most of this, might be the first time we agree on something here I think:)
Everyone thinks they are right, that is mostly a fact that will never change, and probably should never change.
What you think to be fair, I do not. Vise-versa. Most of us here have, or have had a love/like for this game, or none of us would be here I hope.
Believe it or not I can understand someone being pissed about the direction the game went, I know I was disappointed about it too, what I fail at understanding I guess, are the ones who have the deep hatered. The ones who admit they dont care about the playerbase at all and want the game to stop breathing period. That's where I fail to understand, or even sympathise with this type of thinking.
I have been wronged before in real life just like everyone else, but even though I get mad at the idiot who cut me off on the freeway, I dont feel like I want to shoot him and end his life. It's that type of thinking that makes us all go backwards IMO.
Oh I think we've agreed on game mechanics stuff, quite a bit of the stuff actually .
I don't even think it's that much anti game, as opposed to anti people who are for the game. You get accusations of 'lies', 'misleading', flying around (as you mentioned, which are on OPINIONS) which are personal attacks, the obvious way to attack back is to trash the game and counter what pro game poster is doing. If it was always just CRS hate, you'd never have those odd cases where civil discussion of game mechanics occur. But stick one or two of the type of posts in and it's back to flaming/trolling. More of cutting him off in reprisal (one promotes, the other condemns). On the more personal side, some of it might be just against DOC as opposed to the game itself.
Good obsevation, and Very true! I look back at some of my own posts and I feel I do seem to come off as more agressive than intended tbh.
Looking back at my last responce to your post, I didnt mean to imply that you were one who "hated" so strongly as others here, but as more of a blanket statement pointed at those who do I guess.
I get the complaints that some have about the direction taken, and I respect them also. I believe the last sentence in your post above might just be the case mostly. The only problem I have with this is, is the question, how does one separate that feeling with what would be fair to the current playerbase? If someone has the answer to this, I'm all ears:)
Originally posted by Stug Accusations of misleading post's? How about Hodo posting campaigns are quick now? Didn't you spot that little gem of game belittling??
Why attempt to divert a improving discussion between players into a petty attack on someone else in a thread a few days back? You have anything to actually add to the discussion?
Originally posted by BodkinBarber Originally posted by Stug Accusations of misleading post's? How about Hodo posting campaigns are quick now? Didn't you spot that little gem of game belittling??
Yeah it's just proving my point, and someone missing the point as that case was already covered about cause and effect.
I've seen lots of little gems btw, as I've already posted on. Like misquoating by taking one line out of context and making a strawman argument. And a page of how HC is no different from squad command, then I find out the poster in question never ran in squads in those days so has no idea what the facts are, while tossing accusations about others misleading comments.
If you want it to mean something, you can't toss it on everything that criticizes the game. And you certainly can't be making it up just so you can and not expecting stuff back.
You guys keep mentioning a better discussion but the fact is that even hinting that CRS decides the winner/loser of a campaign will get the discussion locked or deleted.
Originally posted by pittpete Well, they can't do anything w/o building up the subscriptions first. Also tough to do when ex players go above and beyond to shit on the game. Possibly with a built up playerbase, CRS can implement some of the needed changes to make everyone continue playing.
They got 10 years of support and as a paying customer the only thing I and alot of others got in return was soon and broken promises. If I was to let pity sway me sure I could go back and support them.But as a grown adult who has made more than a resonable effort to allow for change by CRS over a decade period of time thats not a option.
Ya never know, maybe they're desperate now and will actually try and bring back some of the old stuff back.
I've played the game for 10 years also but I look at it another way.
I didn't keep paying for a sub for promises or what was coming next.
When the game got stale I unsubbed.
I came back played for awhile and unsubbed again.
As long as I'm having fun playing I'll stay subbed.
Originally posted by wrath04 Originally posted by Tontoman ...
DOC should change his name and have CRS pretend it's sold to other developers, and then keep working on it (assuming we're stuck with DOC working on it).
But really it can disappear by itself as when we got a good talk about mechanics, using points and ideas in that other thread (that later got locked lol). Even with Silky's opinion being the opposite of most on the quality and results of the CRS changes, it was done in a way that while passionate, came out very constructive and didn't degenerate on either side for pages of posts. But you can't stop it, you can just try not to feed it.
Originally posted by wrath04 Originally posted by Zbus What I find laughable is that CRS and its current playerbase want older members to return and are begging for support yet will not listen to those same players when they come to sites like this and flat out say (Look if you want me to return here is what needs to happen) only to be called haters by the same people who want you to return. Seems 10 years of support to a company on promises alone is not enough for some of these guys you have to come back support the game 100% in its current path and only say glowing things about the game and its staff. Ill pay 30 bucks a month when CRS changes the AO/HC/TOE system and starts to listen to its playerbase. No more promises like we got for 10 years see (1st roadmap) we want to see action. Dont want to do that well then you dont want our support. That simple really change or go under.
The current playerbase is NOT "Begging" for your support here that I can see, but rather just asking for a fair shake, and Laugh all you want at the current playerbase, but we find the game FUN and worth defending.
We (the current playerbase)have no control over what direction CRS takes here, and we support the game for various reasons, some, for what the game is, some for what it could be, nothing wrong with that. I do not speak for the whole playerbase, but I speak as part of it anyway. And as far as not listening to what the ex-players "Need" to have happen before they support the game again, we have! and some of us who still play want some of the same things you do! Read man Read! What the hell you think we been saying?
You'd rather feel bad about being called/labled a hater and while you do that, seemingly miss some of the points made entirely. Your point is well taken by most, but to try to insult the current playerbase by dismissing our claims counter to yours as being not as important. Some of you have chosen to say you hate the game/CRS/players and were soon after dubbed "haters", and soon after that, some of you decided to make this label your rallying call. So who's fault is that? Is it my fault for calling you a hater if you choose to hate? You tell me.
EDIT:I wish I could have used Pitt's exact wording on this subject, he is exactly right.
Its simple no change no cash why you cant grasp that is beyond me.
Originally posted by pittpete Ya never know, maybe they're desperate now and will actually try and bring back some of the old stuff back. I've played the game for 10 years also but I look at it another way. I didn't keep paying for a sub for promises or what was coming next. When the game got stale I unsubbed. I came back played for awhile and unsubbed again. As long as I'm having fun playing I'll stay subbed.
Thats reasonable the game can be fun im not questioning that at all. I pefer actions over promises if they make a move thats going in the direction I pefered as a player I will lend my support if not oh well. Sink or swim its all up to CRS.
Originally posted by Zbus Originally posted by pittpete Well, they can't do anything w/o building up the subscriptions first. Also tough to do when ex players go above and beyond to shit on the game. Possibly with a built up playerbase, CRS can implement some of the needed changes to make everyone continue playing.
Well I had fun for the time I paid so got something back. But yeah. Not playing in advance for something. And I'm not being hard on them for that, I'd do that for very few games, games that follow closely what I'm wanting and from a solid dev team (as in, not EA lol). But unfortunately not CRS as their dev hasn't been solid and for years has been going opposite my WWII MMO desires. CRS is stuck in a catch 22. Can't get old players back to make more money, can't make changes without money that would get players back.
But if they could squeeze in a few more simple changes, and with different payment plans, I'd consider. Ranges on MSP so city is not always surrounded and self towing ATGs would perk my interest at lower sub rates, just something little to play around with. At least they would get the pop up and some more money coming in.
Originally posted by TontomanWell I had fun for the time I paid so got something back. But yeah. Not playing in advance for something. And I'm not being hard on them for that, I'd do that for very few games, games that follow closely what I'm wanting and from a solid dev team (as in, not EA lol). But unfortunately not CRS as their dev hasn't been solid and for years has been going opposite my WWII MMO desires. CRS is stuck in a catch 22. Can't get old players back to make more money, can't make changes without money that would get players back.But if they could squeeze in a few more simple changes, and with different payment plans, I'd consider. Ranges on MSP so city is not always surrounded and self towing ATGs would perk my interest at lower sub rates, just something little to play around with. At least they would get the pop up and some more money coming in.
There are a number of changes CRS could make that wouldn't require a coder or a client patch, ones that from their own statements would only need the tweaking of some database values.
They just had an intermission, a very short and uneventful one and they didn't attempt any real changes. They should go for 50 AOs and announce it in an email, or they need to differentiate the brigades, or do a no-tank intermission, they should be trying something to so how many people resubscribe. They are already near rock-bottom so a little boldness couldn't hurt position.
Looking at their stagnation and profound lack of creativity I guess that either that guy "Maypole" has absolute authority over game decisions, or everyone left there has no ambition left for the game; it's just some side income that they keep going.
On another topic they had better get that guy off of vacation or whatever because there are a number of players irate that player statistics are still down. They also pulled down the number of builders right when people started to expect results for 150+ people paying $30 a month. That's not encouraging.
While I do try to defend them, it's clear that the whole catch 22 situation exists because CRS is reluctant to unequivocally say they would go back to the old game mechanics. Why would those old guys come back to a game they don't really know anymore?
I used to be quite angry about people criticising them, but I have to admit that it's at the point where they need tough love, because if they don't change direction very very soon, people will start getting antsy even in the current population and my fear is that conatant campaigns for altruistic players to give more money, then no incremental results when that target isn't made - ie: not achieving a smaller goal when 50% of target is made - could lead to players taking the attitude that they're basically being led on a wild goose chase to fund an ever less likely goal.
With every day they stick to their guns, they convince people who are on the fence such as myself, but who want the game to survive, that they aren't really sure what they're doing and ahve no way of solving this crisis that has been ongoing for nearly a year now.