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MMORPGs on Playstation 4

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  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Member RarePosts: 5,361
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    To run planetside 2 anyway decent you need something like an i5 or a fx processor and a gpu upwards of a gtx560 or 6870hd.

    Given the underwhelming specs of the new consoles, I don't see that or eqn appearing on the ps4 any time soon. Well unless they make a heavily cutdown smaller version.

    No, the PS4 uses AMD APU with an integrated GPU that's about as powerful as current Radeon 7850 desktop card. Which is slightly weaker than a GTX 660...its cpu has 8 cores 2ghz each. And is x86 based system architecture. 8 gig GDDR5 ram.

    And here the system requirments for Planetside 2

    Minimum System Requirements
    • OS - Windows XP
    • Processor - Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 or higher / AMD Phenom II X2 or higher
    • Memory - 4 GB RAM
    • Hard Drive - 15 GB free
    • Video Memory - 256 MB RAM
    • Video Card - nVidia GeForce 8600 series or higher / AMD or ATI 4850 series or higher
    • Sound Card - DirectX compatible
    Recommended System
    • OS - Windows 7
    • Processor - Intel i5 processor or higher / AMD Phenom II X6 or higher
    • Memory - 8 GB RAM
    • Hard Drive - 15 GB free
    • Video Memory - 1,024 MB RAM
    • Video Card - nVidia GeForce GTX 560 series or higher / AMD HD 6870 or higher
    • Sound Card - DirectX compatible
  • ShakyMoShakyMo Member CommonPosts: 7,207
    The real requirements are the second list.

    Trying to play ps2 on a core 2 duo, you'd have to play at 460 * 320 or something and get like 15fps.

    That 8gb is shared with video ram, so is really 6gb, although in the case of the ps4 its very fast ram.

    The 7850 in the ps4 isn't a true 7850, the 7850 and 6870 are roughly equivelent though.

    So the ps4 meets the recommend video specs and ram specs in a round about way. But its way behind an i5 (or even new AMD desktop chips) on single thread performance.

    My guess if they made a ps4 version they would
    1 have to have it at 720p, 1080 might be doable at a push
    2 have a smaller limit on players per continent, handling 2000 players per continent is a big cpu hit.
    3 lower things like shadows that also get bottlenecked by cpu.
    4 put in clunky aim assist for controllers
    5 not run it on shared with pc servers as pc players would have big advantage
    6 maybe make the continents smaller too
  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Member RarePosts: 5,361
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    The real requirements are the second list.

    Trying to play ps2 on a core 2 duo, you'd have to play at 460 * 320 or something and get like 15fps.

    That 8gb is shared with video ram, so is really 6gb, although in the case of the ps4 its very fast ram.

    The 7850 in the ps4 isn't a true 7850, the 7850 and 6870 are roughly equivelent though.

    So the ps4 meets the recommend video specs and ram specs in a round about way. But its way behind an i5 (or even new AMD desktop chips) on single thread performance.

    My guess if they made a ps4 version they would
    1 have to have it at 720p, 1080 might be doable at a push
    2 have a smaller limit on players per continent, handling 2000 players per continent is a big cpu hit.
    3 lower things like shadows that also get bottlenecked by cpu.
    4 put in clunky aim assist for controllers
    5 not run it on shared with pc servers as pc players would have big advantage
    6 maybe make the continents smaller too

    Well the fact of the matter is Final Fantasy A Realm Reborn a mmorpg with a much larger world with more players than a mmofps with a open world and housing runs and looks great on PS3 and later on PS4 and they are still optimizing it.  Not to mention the PS2 and 360 had Final Fantasy 11 playing on it which was both open world and open dungeons.  Theres also DC Universe and Destiny.  And if they bring EQ next to PS4 it wouldnt be the first time an EQ game came to consoles so its very possible as EQ Online Adventures on PS2.

    And I would rather save about 600 dollars than buy a high end PC for super detailed shadows. I doubt they would even have to lower overall settings by much in the first place.  And games in general are much better optimized for consoles hardware because of the uniformity meaning they actually utilize the cores of the cpu more efficiently.  And on top of that I think Sony will know how to optimize their own game with their own console.

    planetside isnt the only game in the whole world so i dont know why you keep using that game as justification for your argument and you dont need super graphics to make a good game as games like Wildstar, GW2, ESO and WoW proved that and at the same time I play GW2 with my PS3 gamepad and soon Wildstar and ESO. 

  • ShakyMoShakyMo Member CommonPosts: 7,207
    Ps2 has 6000 players per server and has zero instancing its all open world

    Being a fps it needs more grunt to run, they have to trace bullets and work out collision detection, its not same as a traditional mmo when you have fireballs that magically turn corners.

    So I think ps2 is harder to fit on a console than ff. Probably why they didn't even bother on the ps3
  • CastillleCastillle Member UncommonPosts: 2,679
    Shouldnt XBOX One be the one handling MMOs? After all, they have 300,000 virtual servers at their disposal. *snicker*

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  • ShakyMoShakyMo Member CommonPosts: 7,207
    I think your over estimating with saving $600 too.

    You can build a pc with better specs than a ps4 for around $750. I think the ps4 will be more expensive than $150 somehow.

    Then you've got game prices. Brand new aaa game on current gen consoles over here £45, brand new aaa game on pc £30. If you but a lot of games that soon works out as a saving with a pc.

    And that's not counting stuff like pc games get discounted a lot sooner, the availability of user made mods, steam sales, goty editions, the whole indie scene etc..

    Consoles make sense for a casual gamer,pcs make sense for people who game a lot. Also pcs are a lot better at all the non gaming stuff.
  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Member RarePosts: 5,361
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    I think your over estimating with saving $300 too.

    You can build a pc with better specs than a ps4 for around $750. I think the ps4 will be more expensive than $150 somehow.

    Then you've got game prices. Brand new aaa game on current gen consoles over here £45, brand new aaa game on pc £30. If you but a lot of games that soon works out as a saving with a pc.

    And that's not counting stuff like pc games get discounted a lot sooner, the availability of user made mods, steam sales, goty editions, the whole indie scene etc..

    Consoles make sense for a casual gamer,pcs make sense for people who game a lot. Also pcs are a lot better at all the non gaming stuff.

    Consoles have too many great exclusives to ignore like Metal Gear Solid, Single Player FInal Fantasy series, The Last of Us, Beyond Two Souls, Uncharted, Tekken, Dead or Alive, Marvel vs. Capcom, Mortal Kombat, Injustice, Dragons Dogma, Killzone, Deep Down, Destiny, God War, Gran Tourismo, Journey, Resistance, Heavy Rain, Ratchet and Clank...including all the exclusives on the playstation network and tons of indie games on playstation network and free AAA games or discounts every few weeks to a month for those that are playstation plus subscribers.

    I know tons of console gamers who are hardcore and does nothing but game a lot if they arent at work or eating and they do their none gaming stuff on their cell phones or Ipads.  As a hardcore gamer i wouldnt want to miss out on work of art like Metal Gear and Beyond Two souls...Metal Gear alone is enough for me to buy a console for.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo Member CommonPosts: 7,207
    Originally posted by tkreep
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    I think your over estimating with saving $300 too.

    You can build a pc with better specs than a ps4 for around $750. I think the ps4 will be more expensive than $150 somehow.

    Then you've got game prices. Brand new aaa game on current gen consoles over here £45, brand new aaa game on pc £30. If you but a lot of games that soon works out as a saving with a pc.

    And that's not counting stuff like pc games get discounted a lot sooner, the availability of user made mods, steam sales, goty editions, the whole indie scene etc..

    Consoles make sense for a casual gamer,pcs make sense for people who game a lot. Also pcs are a lot better at all the non gaming stuff.

    Consoles have too many great exclusives to ignore like Metal Gear Solid, Single Player FInal Fantasy series, The Last of Us, Beyond Two Souls, Uncharted, Tekken, Dead or Alive, Marvel vs. Capcom, Mortal Kombat, Injustice, Dragons Dogma, Killzone, Deep Down, Destiny, God War, Gran Tourismo, Journey, Resistance, Heavy Rain, Ratchet and Clank...including all the exclusives on the playstation network and tons of indie games on playstation network and free AAA games or discounts every few weeks to a month for those that are playstation plus subscribers.

    I know tons of console gamers who are hardcore and does nothing but game a lot if they arent at work or eating and they do their none gaming stuff on their cell phones or Ipads.  As a hardcore gamer i wouldnt want to miss out on work of art like Metal Gear and Beyond Two souls...Metal Gear alone is enough for me to buy a console for.

    same could be said of PC.  also im not sure all of them games are classics

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Member RarePosts: 5,361
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
     

    same could be said of PC.  also im not sure all of them games are classics

    Here is a list of upcoming PC exclusives

    http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/01/18/50-pc-exclusive-games-in-2013

    Out of all those the only ones im interested in are Wild Star and ESO and hoping to god they dont turn out to be the same generic tab target linear quest driven mmos for the last 10 years since WoW.  And a little bit for Amnesia.  I already tried neverwinter. When it comes to Quality, its console exclusives, i mean just look at the trailers for some of them and you'll see.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acq2RRTQrs0 - Metal Gear Ground Zeroes

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuDNpGvmGCQ - Beyond Two Souls

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3012FtPRAjw - The Last of Us

  • BadSpockBadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 7,979

    People who play only PC miss out on a LOT of great gaming.

    I hope FFXIV:ARR comes to both PS4 and XBO.

    Destiny, kind of a MMO, coming to both.

    Diablo III not a MMO but an OARPG? Coming to both eventually.

    We'll see more and more MMORPGs coming to console if those games do well on the platform.

    Win for everybody, IMO.

    Thus far we've really only had FFXI, PSO, Defiance...

     

     

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Member RarePosts: 5,361
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    People who play only PC miss out on a LOT of great gaming.

    I hope FFXIV:ARR comes to both PS4 and XBO.

    Destiny, kind of a MMO, coming to both.

    Diablo III not a MMO but an OARPG? Coming to both eventually.

    We'll see more and more MMORPGs coming to console if those games do well on the platform.

    Win for everybody, IMO.

    Thus far we've really only had FFXI, PSO, Defiance...

     

     

    DC Universe and Everquest Adventures too

  • BidwoodBidwood Member Posts: 554


    Originally posted by ShakyMo I think your over estimating with saving $600 too. You can build a pc with better specs than a ps4 for around $750. I think the ps4 will be more expensive than $150 somehow. Then you've got game prices. Brand new aaa game on current gen consoles over here £45, brand new aaa game on pc £30. If you but a lot of games that soon works out as a saving with a pc. And that's not counting stuff like pc games get discounted a lot sooner, the availability of user made mods, steam sales, goty editions, the whole indie scene etc.. Consoles make sense for a casual gamer,pcs make sense for people who game a lot. Also pcs are a lot better at all the non gaming stuff.
    Your $750 PC is not going to match the gaming performance of PS4. Even if the specs look similar on paper, I think you're underestimating the console's architecture and devs' ability to optimize their games for a fixed platform.
  • BidwoodBidwood Member Posts: 554
    DC Universe Online - Can MMORPGs Work On Console?
    http://www.nowgamer.com/features/1945669/dc_universe_online_can_mmorpgs_work_on_console.html

    Some highlights from a Q&A with DCUO Executive Producer Larry Liberty:

    MMORPGs are rare on console. Has DC Universe Online conclusively proved the MMORPGs can work on console?

    We proved that we could get a full-featured MMO onto the PS3 and that it could be very successful. The majority of our player base is on the PS3, and we get thousands of new players each day. Despite the challenges, we and our partners at Sony Computer Entertainment have learned so much about how to make this genre work better on consoles for years to come.


    Having experienced the evolution of DC Universe Online, what’s the main lesson SOE has learnt about creating MMOs for console?

    It’s difficult to narrow it down to one thing. We’ve learned how to work with Sony Computer Entertainment. They’ve become a great partner, and are genuinely interested in effecting change that will make their platforms work better for free-to-play titles. We also learned about the types of content that appeal to console players. Of course, we also have a much better understanding of how to optimize for a hardware specification that is a bit less flexible than the PC.


    Looking at PlayStation 4’s announcement and its feature-set, what do you expect to see from console MMORPGs on that platform?

    I would expect that, with all of the amazing features that have been announced for the next PlayStation, that it will be a great platform for MMOs.




  • someforumguysomeforumguy Member RarePosts: 4,087

    I expect to see upcoming MMO's to be (also) released for the next gen consoles. I doubt that there will be many exclusive titles for one console between them though. With a MMO you want as many players as possible, because this is one of the things that players use to judge a MMO for. So I hope to see some more cross platform MMO's.

    Personally, I don't care that much about consoles. I tend to like games that are moddable, for which PC is still the best choice. Consoles have too many restrictions.

  • GeadinGeadin Member UncommonPosts: 17

    Same old MMO's as PC users have most likely.

     

    PS4 is just cloudbased..

     

    which means it'll allow sony to easily export pc games to ps4 while labeling a diffrent title on it. ;3

  • RalstlinRalstlin Member UncommonPosts: 234

    i think FFXIV will be in PS4 and XBox One..

     

    in PS4 because Sony have a % of Square-Enix company and with the game already out, probably the cost is too low compared with probably income.

    XBox One probably will have easy port from Windows plataform to Xbox.. so there are some chances too to see this game on Microsoft NextGen Console

     

    And the best part is that FFXIV was designed to be played on PC and Console.. is not a forced port to a console... they made a different User Interface for these who want to play with Pad on PC and to play in PS3... that is really a great point compared to other games...

  • BidwoodBidwood Member Posts: 554

    Another thought for those who doubt the console's ability to pull it off..

     

    We got our first extensive look at the PS3 gameplay of Final Fantasy XIV: Realm Reborn - a yet-to-be-released big budget MMO.

     

    The PS3 is a seven year old piece of hardware and is getting a consistent 30 frames per second. The graphics look pretty good too.

     

    PC gameplay:

     

    PS3 gameplay:

     

    If PS3 can do this good, I expect PS4 graphics to match or exceed what they're showing for PC.

  • BidwoodBidwood Member Posts: 554
    Originally posted by someforumguy

    I expect to see upcoming MMO's to be (also) released for the next gen consoles. I doubt that there will be many exclusive titles for one console between them though. With a MMO you want as many players as possible, because this is one of the things that players use to judge a MMO for. So I hope to see some more cross platform MMO's.

    Personally, I don't care that much about consoles. I tend to like games that are moddable, for which PC is still the best choice. Consoles have too many restrictions.

    Good point about as many players as possible.

    As we move forward, platforms are becoming less relevant... 

  • ShakyMoShakyMo Member CommonPosts: 7,207
    Bidwood
    For $750 I can build something like a FX8350 with a 7950hd that easily out performs a ps4
  • BidwoodBidwood Member Posts: 554
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Bidwood
    For $750 I can build something like a FX8350 with a 7950hd that easily out performs a ps4

    Maybe in a few years. =)

  • BadSpockBadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 7,979
    Originally posted by Ralstlin

    i think FFXIV will be in PS4 and XBox One..

    in PS4 because Sony have a % of Square-Enix company and with the game already out, probably the cost is too low compared with probably income.

    XBox One probably will have easy port from Windows plataform to Xbox.. so there are some chances too to see this game on Microsoft NextGen Console

    And the best part is that FFXIV was designed to be played on PC and Console.. is not a forced port to a console... they made a different User Interface for these who want to play with Pad on PC and to play in PS3... that is really a great point compared to other games...

    I'm really hoping that is true - and I'm really hoping they unveil at E3 that Xbox One can play PC games too.

    Long shot, I know, but hopefully at least when they release FFXIV for PS4/XBO if you own the PC or PS3 version you can download and play for free on PS4/XBO.

     

  • BidwoodBidwood Member Posts: 554
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Ralstlin

    i think FFXIV will be in PS4 and XBox One..

    in PS4 because Sony have a % of Square-Enix company and with the game already out, probably the cost is too low compared with probably income.

    XBox One probably will have easy port from Windows plataform to Xbox.. so there are some chances too to see this game on Microsoft NextGen Console

    And the best part is that FFXIV was designed to be played on PC and Console.. is not a forced port to a console... they made a different User Interface for these who want to play with Pad on PC and to play in PS3... that is really a great point compared to other games...

    I'm really hoping that is true - and I'm really hoping they unveil at E3 that Xbox One can play PC games too.

    Long shot, I know, but hopefully at least when they release FFXIV for PS4/XBO if you own the PC or PS3 version you can download and play for free on PS4/XBO.

     

    I'm a Sony fan but would be way more compelled to get Xbox One if it played PC games. =)

  • BidwoodBidwood Member Posts: 554

    So Planetside 2 AND DCUO were confirmed for PS4 by IGN.

    http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/06/05/dc-universe-online-and-planetside-2-coming-to-playstation-4

    This crushes two myths...

    1. MMOs are limited by the lifecycle of a console and are therefore it's not a good investment. DCUO is the first one to my knowledge that's actually being ported to the next iteration of its original console. It can be done!!!!

    2. Consoles will never be able to keep up with the demanding system requirements of a MMO. Planetside is a huge, beautiful, seamless big-budget MMO and a hog on system resources. The fact that it'll be on PS4 is pretty awesome. It can be done!!!!!

     

  • OziiusOziius Member UncommonPosts: 1,406
    Originally posted by Quizzical
    Originally posted by Praetalus
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    In terms of technical capabilities, making an MMORPG for PlayStation 4 shouldn't be that hard--apart from in the sense that making an MMORPG is intrinsically hard.

    The bigger barrier is whether it makes any business sense to do so.  In that regard, the answer is, not likely.

    You need to understand why consoles still exist in the first place.  The problem with making a single-player game for PC is that it can be pirated.  And people will pirate it, to the degree that most of your "players" will pirate it instead of paying for it.  That's a big probelm if you're a game developer and want to be paid.  Consoles have strong anti-piracy protections in place, which makes it so that if you make a console game, people have to pay for it in order to get to play.

    But those anti-piracy protections don't come for free.  You have to pay a considerable chunk of your revenue (e.g., 30%) to whoever made the console in order for them to let your game run on their console.  30% in console fees sure beats losing 90% to piracy, so that's a good deal for most single-player games.

    The reason consoles have to charge that fee is that they typically lose money by selling the console hardware itself.  The console business plan is to lose money on the initial hardware sale, but make it up from the games that sell.  But that only works if games actually sell.

    MMORPGs, however, have no need for console anti-piracy protections.  That everyone has to connect to your servers in order to play your game gives you all the anti-piracy protection you need.  If you want to release your game for a console, however, you still have to pay a large fraction of your revenue to whoever made the console.  That means that an MMORPG developer will strongly prefer the PC platform unless his customers insist that it needs to be on consoles--and are willing to pay more for it to be on consoles.

    If you could play an MMORPG on PC for $15/month or exactly the same MMORPG on a console for $20/month, which would you choose?  Most people would go with PC, to the degree that releasing it for consoles isn't necessarily a good idea.

    You might well prefer consoles if you think you're going to play "free to play" games and never actually pay anything.  But console manufacturers understand this approach as well.  If you're never going to buy any games that they'll get paid for, then they don't want you to buy their console in the first place.  (Remember when Sony disabled Linux on PS3?  I think this is why.  Too many of the people who installed Linux on a PS3 were using it for other purposes and not buying games on it.)  Console manufacturers can restrict the business model of games available for their console, and in the past, have been willing to veto a "free to play" model.

    You don't release an MMORPG for consoles unless you believe that having a console version will increase your revenue by more than enough to offset the console fee.  If you charge the same price for the PC version as the console version, then a lot of your console revenue will just be cannibalizing your PC revenue.  You can offset that by charging more for the console version than the PC version, but that creates the problem of how many people will be willing to pay extra to play your game on a console rather than a PC.  Some who might have been willing to pay $20/month for a console MMORPG might refuse just to spite you for overcharging if they see that the same game is available for PC at $15/month.

    There probably is a market for a handful of console MMORPGs, to pick up people who would like to play MMORPGs, but will only play on consoles and not PCs.  But there probably aren't that many such customers, so there isn't that much money to be made by catering to them.

    I disagree. You say this all the time... about the console fees and whatnot. I played ff11 for Xbox and guess what? It wasn't $20 a month. I played dcuo on ps3 and behold! It wasn't $20 a month. The prices won't change on the monthly fee regardless of the platform. I don't know where you get this stuff. Can you show me one example where playing a game on a console cost more per month then on PC? 

     

    Sony is putting eqnext on console... You really think they will charge themselves a "console fee"?  People on consoles want to play together. The PC purist around here will fight it tooth and nail, but there will be an increase of Mmo's on these next gen systems.

    And how much did WoW cost on your Xbox 360, again?  It's not like WoW required ridiculously high specs that couldn't be made to run on an Xbox 360, nor that Blizzard lacked revenue to justify bringing it to another platform.

    I'm not saying that there will be no MMORPGs for the next generation consoles, but only that there will be few.  EverQuest Next is an unusual case in that it's a first-party game--and likely to be used by Sony as a reason to push people to buy a PS4 instead of an Xbox 1.

    Well, they just announced DCUO, Planetside 2 and it's been leaked that EqNext was coming. Along with Final Fantasy 14, which we know is coming, we're at 4 and the damn thing won't be out until later this year. I would be willing to bet you a large sum of money that your "few" is not only wrong, but will be embarrassingly incorrect within the first 2 years of the systems release. 

     

    Of course... if having WoW is the only measurement of MMO's on a console.. I spose I could be wrong... 

  • OziiusOziius Member UncommonPosts: 1,406
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Bidwood
    For $750 I can build something like a FX8350 with a 7950hd that easily out performs a ps4

    In theory; however.. in real life things don't work that way. The issue isn't always just the hardware. It's the software. It's the difference in developing a game for a specific set of hardware verses making a game for a PC where you have to make the game scalable to a million different combinations of hardware and software configurations. Making a game work with multiple Operating systems, video cards, processors' etc appears to be a big pain in the ass. 

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