To add, with a rvr game replacing gear is a big time issue. Sure you could have easily replaced gear and stockpiles like in ffa games, but when you are storming a keep or whatever, you will die every minute or so, if people had to head home and pick up new gear every time rvr would loose momentum. It's not the same as say getting pked while you are out gathering materials in uo, because with that you make sure you bank often and if you keep getting pked you farm elsewhere. with a rvr game your progression and advancement is through large scale pvp.
I like the idea of "special" weapons or pieces of armor etc. that a player can earn that does last forever and doesn't decay and can't be looted or destroyed in PvP.
But again you really have to limit it.
If everyone has a "special" sword - they aren't really all that cool.
Like how the Elves name famous swords and such in the LOTR books, seems like every sword/knife/dagger has a name and a story. Not cool.
It'd have to be a reward for truly exceptional in-game play.
Like the absolute best PvP'ers on the server/shard could become Generals and lead sieges/defenses etc.
And if they do a really good job as a General, the best of them can commishion a team of the best crafters on their server to make a special weapon or item/piece of armor etc. for that General.
But even with all that, the "cool" factor would have to be 99% of it.
I'm talking about like a +1 on stats for the Legendary weapon, and the fact it can't be destroyed/looted or decay.
Not like +50 stats and a special dmg effect or group buff etc. they CAN'T be OP at all.
The cynic in me thinks having "top player gets all the cool stuff" would open the system to exploitation and really only serve those that can stand to play long hours.
However, the MMO vet in me thinks having "top player gets all the cool stuff" would open the system to exploitation and really only serve those that can stand to play long hours.
Well, the MMO vet and arm-chair game developer (lol) in me says that it's OK to reward those who can stand to play long hours - as long as it's not excessive reward.
Hence the +1 bonus on these "legendary" items instead of the typical stat tiers in themepark MMOs.
Though the economic benefits of not having to replace said piece of gear would be measurable, but marginal at best.
If you only gave these hardcore super RvR leaders the ability to own and use ONE "special" item, and you only had maybe a dozen - few dozen per faction per server, don't think it'd effect the economy OR RvR balance too much.
But like many things, the idea that a player COULD potentially one day earn these things is a very nice "cool" factor for encouraging people to play the game. It helps sell it. Even if 99% of your playerbase never has their own "Ice" or "Sting" it's really cool and a selling point / hype point for players that they COULD maybe MIGHT ever get one.
Mark Jacobs has already said looting of dead characters is out. Basically this causes players to just hoard their best gear and never use it, or only use it when they are certain they will come back with it. What he wants to avoid is leaving a bad taste in people's mouths... and losing equipment when you die certainly does that. My guess is that leaves item degradeation in. Which is good, that mechanic promotes ongowing crafting and a good economy.
There was always a demand for weapons and armor in the market place for all levels 20+ due to the battlegrounds. Players wanted to twink their characters with 99/100% quality weapons/armor that was definately repairable its just lowered the durability on the item so eventually you would find yourself back at the auction zone looking for more items.
Also potions were high in demand aswell.
edit. duration = durability
+1.
Also, players making new alts and such, I don't really remember any time that i ever had a problem finding buyers in DaoC.
If anything I had a hard time keeping up with demand. But i guess that's my fault for tring to sell to many different kinds of gear.
I did like U.O.'s full loot. half the time your friends would show up in time to save some of your gear, and it was always fun to wacth people go grey looting, and then getting wacked themselves. We would do it on purpose sometimes, load a mule up with junk
kill him out side town and hide and wait for the "good guys" to come loot the corpse. Great times!
perhaps so there is an economy and more gear is taken out of the economy, perhaps make weapons gear is used to repair better gear, eg repair an epic 25% with a blue item, or so many peice of gear can be combined to make a repair kit....this would require a large amount of transactions though probably and would need an AH to support properly.
We can't really give an honest opinion on what a fair death penalty would be until we see how character progression is going to be handled. I can say that if any type of "Level" progression system is used that I do not want to see "De-Leveling" happening. If deaths take you to 0 of your current leveling I am fine with that, but losing levels annoyed me over a decade ago and still annoys me.
Now as for Item Degradation I am very much for this if it is done smart. *IF* our equipment is solely done via Crafting, then to me it is a good economical choice to have degradation as part of the ebb and flow of it. Yes, the crafter will be making money off of new characters and alts, but as time goes that currency will become less and less. Now we should be able to "reinforce" items to make them degrade slower (especially high end pricey items) or potentially with time a crafter may be able to make "Unbreakable" items that would require large amounts of currency and time expenditure. Unbreakable items I think would do well to have an improved graphic or effect that makes them stand out. Quality of items used and "Luck/Efficiency" within crafting items I think should be factors in the item degradation overall. This is a very old school approach and I am sure will not be popular, but I think it fits with the focus of the game harkening back to the times that your decisions actually mattered.
And I don't think this will cause people to be more likely to run with the zerg. Lemmings will follow the person in the lead no matter the system. WoW and GW2 are prime examples of that.
Comments
Yes it works in uo, because uo is an economy driven sandbox like eve. The ecconomy drives pvp in those games.
Daoc / cu aren't economy driven sandboxes though, they are rvr games. YOU DIE MORE OFTEN IN THEM.
Well, the MMO vet and arm-chair game developer (lol) in me says that it's OK to reward those who can stand to play long hours - as long as it's not excessive reward.
Hence the +1 bonus on these "legendary" items instead of the typical stat tiers in themepark MMOs.
Though the economic benefits of not having to replace said piece of gear would be measurable, but marginal at best.
If you only gave these hardcore super RvR leaders the ability to own and use ONE "special" item, and you only had maybe a dozen - few dozen per faction per server, don't think it'd effect the economy OR RvR balance too much.
But like many things, the idea that a player COULD potentially one day earn these things is a very nice "cool" factor for encouraging people to play the game. It helps sell it. Even if 99% of your playerbase never has their own "Ice" or "Sting" it's really cool and a selling point / hype point for players that they COULD maybe MIGHT ever get one.
+1.
Also, players making new alts and such, I don't really remember any time that i ever had a problem finding buyers in DaoC.
If anything I had a hard time keeping up with demand. But i guess that's my fault for tring to sell to many different kinds of gear.
I did like U.O.'s full loot. half the time your friends would show up in time to save some of your gear, and it was always fun to wacth people go grey looting, and then getting wacked themselves. We would do it on purpose sometimes, load a mule up with junk
kill him out side town and hide and wait for the "good guys" to come loot the corpse. Great times!
Edit: Spelling.
perhaps so there is an economy and more gear is taken out of the economy, perhaps make weapons gear is used to repair better gear, eg repair an epic 25% with a blue item, or so many peice of gear can be combined to make a repair kit....this would require a large amount of transactions though probably and would need an AH to support properly.
SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.
This. DAoCs system was excellent.
We can't really give an honest opinion on what a fair death penalty would be until we see how character progression is going to be handled. I can say that if any type of "Level" progression system is used that I do not want to see "De-Leveling" happening. If deaths take you to 0 of your current leveling I am fine with that, but losing levels annoyed me over a decade ago and still annoys me.
Now as for Item Degradation I am very much for this if it is done smart. *IF* our equipment is solely done via Crafting, then to me it is a good economical choice to have degradation as part of the ebb and flow of it. Yes, the crafter will be making money off of new characters and alts, but as time goes that currency will become less and less. Now we should be able to "reinforce" items to make them degrade slower (especially high end pricey items) or potentially with time a crafter may be able to make "Unbreakable" items that would require large amounts of currency and time expenditure. Unbreakable items I think would do well to have an improved graphic or effect that makes them stand out. Quality of items used and "Luck/Efficiency" within crafting items I think should be factors in the item degradation overall. This is a very old school approach and I am sure will not be popular, but I think it fits with the focus of the game harkening back to the times that your decisions actually mattered.
And I don't think this will cause people to be more likely to run with the zerg. Lemmings will follow the person in the lead no matter the system. WoW and GW2 are prime examples of that.
Bear "replicant" Powell
"I am Shaolin-Style!"