I think people are holding too much of a grudge against Mr. Jacobs. He took all the heat for the things that went wrong because it was his place to do so, even though it sounds like some of it wasn't totally his fault. He has been through this process several times, and I'm sure he has learned a lot about what the players do and don't want in a game like this. We should all let the past go and give him a chance to at least fully share his vision for the game before condemning it because "OMG HE RUINED DAOC AND WAR." Everyone remembers the downfall, but no one wants to talk about the amazing aspects that he also brought to those games. He has made it clear that we will all know what to expect before being presented with the opportunity to buy into the Kickstarter, and frankly I can't think of anyone I'd trust more to create something like this given his resume.
and i dont think a good game could be done in less time anyway.
so, what's the problem?
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
MarkJacobsCEO City State EntertainmentMemberRarePosts: 649
Originally posted by bcbully Keep it up Mark. This type of communication is a first. I've never given for a project before, but a little down the line, I just might with this one.
Thanks, I'll do that. Whatever my faults, real or imagined, I have always tried to talk to the Community to get their feedback. I used to say that at Mythic "We might not always agree with what you said but we will always listen to you." and I'm planning on doing that again. I know that eventually I'll say something to piss someone off just as I also know that somebody will say something to piss me off. I also know that I'll do something to piss someone off, it comes with being a developer/designer. All I ask is that we disagree politely with no drama and/or threats and everything will be fine. I hope we get your support for our project but if not, thanks for considering us.
Originally posted by collekt I think people are holding too much of a grudge against Mr. Jacobs. He took all the heat for the things that went wrong because it was his place to do so, even though it sounds like some of it wasn't totally his fault. He has been through this process several times, and I'm sure he has learned a lot about what the players do and don't want in a game like this. We should all let the past go and give him a chance to at least fully share his vision for the game before condemning it because "OMG HE RUINED DAOC AND WAR." Everyone remembers the downfall, but no one wants to talk about the amazing aspects that he also brought to those games. He has made it clear that we will all know what to expect before being presented with the opportunity to buy into the Kickstarter, and frankly I can't think of anyone I'd trust more to create something like this given his resume.
Thanks but when I was the CEO, the buck had to stop with me. I hold little regard for CEOs who blame everything on everyone else when they are sitting in the big chair. As CEO of Mythic (prior to the EA acquisition), I sat in the chair so it would be disengenous of me to say "So and so told me this" or "So and so did that" and pass the buck. All I ask is that if people are going to blame me for everything bad at Mythic prior to 2006, then they also be willing to give me some credit for the things we did right. I've apologized, more than once, for things that happened on my watch. I hope that closes the book on things and that people can focus on the future.
I truly thank you for your kind words and support. If you or anyone else back the Kickstarter you will never once question whether my team and I are doing everything we can do to justify that support. One thing you can absolutely be sure of is that I will treat your backing the same way I treat my own money (since it will be in right there with your money) and if you've ever been to the old Mythic offices or have seen the photos of our current space, we spend wisely. No pool tables, ping-pong tables, buildout, etc. We built all our own desks (just like in the old days), we haggled and found a nice sub-let (again) at a below market rate., etc. I love being a start-up again.
Originally posted by Thane
and i dont think a good game could be done in less time anyway.
There won't be a demo because frankly, whatever we threw together right now would be smoke and mirrors and I won't waste my time and the players time by showing them something that is lame. We could use Unity (as we did for MoO) as the basis for a demo, take some time, build some cool looking models and go "See! It works!!!!" but that would be nonsense. That's the easy part. Building a client/server model that can handle thousands of player per server, large scale battles and a graphics engine that can accomodate all that without becoming a slideshow, that's the hard part and that takes time. That's why I'm not seeking all the money we'll need from Kickstarter and instead, putting up my own. I have faith we can do that but what I don't know yet is whether enough people will want to play this game. Getting the Kickstarter funded will prove to me that our core audience is there and willing to take a chance. With that in hand, more money comes in from myself and others. People (including me of course) can say anything but what I'm willing to do is back it up with my own money. Hopefully people will see that as I intend, that I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is, instead of my foot.
Thanks to all for your questions/support. More answer OTW.
Mark
Mr. Jacobs,
I'm not a software expert , but why not purchase a license of an already existing client/server and graphics engine? Wouldn't that speed up development time a lot? You would have to fine-tune it ofcourse to fit your needs, and create all the props and assets, but that would be pretty straightforward.
For example Darkfall Online (published by Aventurine S.A.) has a very solid client/server package and a graphics engine that can support hundreds of players simultaneously. While the engine currently is not the latest word in graphics technology, I'm sure the cost of using such a license would be minimal and with the aid of talented programmers and good artists you could upgrade it to todays standards.
I wouldn't say it's that far, probably mid to late 2014. They're not getting just money from kickstarter, they do have regular investors as well. At least that's what bill said
I think it's really cool that you (referring to Mark Jacobs here) are active in the community. I had entirely planned to dismiss this as soon as I heard of it simply because there is no PvE and I am not a PvP'er. However, I'm going keep an eye on CU and point people in your direction just because you really seem to care about your project and the community. I wish you luck with your endeavor and hope your game turns out the way you want it to.
Given that they're entity PvP focused with no need for NPC or any of that sorta stuff, it should cut a significant amount of time from their development time from the typical MMO. depending on what they're using for an engine, development could be very quick.
ops: just saw that they're making their own. perhaps not a bad plan.....it would be a challenge to make something worse than some of the engines out there....hero engine*shudders*
I wouldn´t go so far to actually bet on any release-date, but I think we shouldn´t forget, that this isn´t some new studio with a bunch of amateurs getting their first title out. There is some experience here and cutting the PvE with all its developement-requirements does a lot to minimize the productioncosts and time.
I´m confident, like Mark "estimated", that it should be possible to play a solid beta somewhere in 2014 and personally thats fine with me. I always pray that someone out there has a solid design and isn´t going to release the game until its finished. Too many games failed because of that. Guessing from what Mark did write until now, I might finally see this dream becoming reality.
Therefore, not just Mark but CSE as whole, can count me in as backer, whether its being released 2014 or 2015.
There won't be a demo because frankly, whatever we threw together right now would be smoke and mirrors and I won't waste my time and the players time by showing them something that is lame. We could use Unity (as we did for MoO) as the basis for a demo, take some time, build some cool looking models and go "See! It works!!!!" but that would be nonsense. That's the easy part. Building a client/server model that can handle thousands of player per server, large scale battles and a graphics engine that can accomodate all that without becoming a slideshow, that's the hard part and that takes time. That's why I'm not seeking all the money we'll need from Kickstarter and instead, putting up my own. I have faith we can do that but what I don't know yet is whether enough people will want to play this game. Getting the Kickstarter funded will prove to me that our core audience is there and willing to take a chance. With that in hand, more money comes in from myself and others. People (including me of course) can say anything but what I'm willing to do is back it up with my own money. Hopefully people will see that as I intend, that I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is, instead of my foot.
Thanks to all for your questions/support. More answer OTW.
Mark
Mr. Jacobs,
I'm not a software expert , but why not purchase a license of an already existing client/server and graphics engine? Wouldn't that speed up development time a lot? You would have to fine-tune it ofcourse to fit your needs, and create all the props and assets, but that would be pretty straightforward.
For example Darkfall Online (published by Aventurine S.A.) has a very solid client/server package and a graphics engine that can support hundreds of players simultaneously. While the engine currently is not the latest word in graphics technology, I'm sure the cost of using such a license would be minimal and with the aid of talented programmers and good artists you could upgrade it to todays standards.
I agree about purchasing a license (although definitely NOT that of Darkfall). Unreal Engine, CryEngine, HeroEngine, all these are great choices for MMORPGs. If CSE plans to build their own client/server package plus the graphics engine, I'm afraid the game won't come out before 2016 at the earliest.
Comments
and i dont think a good game could be done in less time anyway.
so, what's the problem?
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Thanks, I'll do that. Whatever my faults, real or imagined, I have always tried to talk to the Community to get their feedback. I used to say that at Mythic "We might not always agree with what you said but we will always listen to you." and I'm planning on doing that again. I know that eventually I'll say something to piss someone off just as I also know that somebody will say something to piss me off. I also know that I'll do something to piss someone off, it comes with being a developer/designer. All I ask is that we disagree politely with no drama and/or threats and everything will be fine. I hope we get your support for our project but if not, thanks for considering us.
Thanks but when I was the CEO, the buck had to stop with me. I hold little regard for CEOs who blame everything on everyone else when they are sitting in the big chair. As CEO of Mythic (prior to the EA acquisition), I sat in the chair so it would be disengenous of me to say "So and so told me this" or "So and so did that" and pass the buck. All I ask is that if people are going to blame me for everything bad at Mythic prior to 2006, then they also be willing to give me some credit for the things we did right. I've apologized, more than once, for things that happened on my watch. I hope that closes the book on things and that people can focus on the future.
I truly thank you for your kind words and support. If you or anyone else back the Kickstarter you will never once question whether my team and I are doing everything we can do to justify that support. One thing you can absolutely be sure of is that I will treat your backing the same way I treat my own money (since it will be in right there with your money) and if you've ever been to the old Mythic offices or have seen the photos of our current space, we spend wisely. No pool tables, ping-pong tables, buildout, etc. We built all our own desks (just like in the old days), we haggled and found a nice sub-let (again) at a below market rate., etc. I love being a start-up again.
I couldn't agree more.
Mark
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
Mr. Jacobs,
I'm not a software expert , but why not purchase a license of an already existing client/server and graphics engine? Wouldn't that speed up development time a lot? You would have to fine-tune it ofcourse to fit your needs, and create all the props and assets, but that would be pretty straightforward.
For example Darkfall Online (published by Aventurine S.A.) has a very solid client/server package and a graphics engine that can support hundreds of players simultaneously. While the engine currently is not the latest word in graphics technology, I'm sure the cost of using such a license would be minimal and with the aid of talented programmers and good artists you could upgrade it to todays standards.
Given that they're entity PvP focused with no need for NPC or any of that sorta stuff, it should cut a significant amount of time from their development time from the typical MMO. depending on what they're using for an engine, development could be very quick.
ops: just saw that they're making their own. perhaps not a bad plan.....it would be a challenge to make something worse than some of the engines out there....hero engine*shudders*
SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.
I wouldn´t go so far to actually bet on any release-date, but I think we shouldn´t forget, that this isn´t some new studio with a bunch of amateurs getting their first title out. There is some experience here and cutting the PvE with all its developement-requirements does a lot to minimize the productioncosts and time.
I´m confident, like Mark "estimated", that it should be possible to play a solid beta somewhere in 2014 and personally thats fine with me. I always pray that someone out there has a solid design and isn´t going to release the game until its finished. Too many games failed because of that. Guessing from what Mark did write until now, I might finally see this dream becoming reality.
Therefore, not just Mark but CSE as whole, can count me in as backer, whether its being released 2014 or 2015.
Camelot Unchained Fanpage
https://simply-gaming.com/camelot/
I agree about purchasing a license (although definitely NOT that of Darkfall). Unreal Engine, CryEngine, HeroEngine, all these are great choices for MMORPGs. If CSE plans to build their own client/server package plus the graphics engine, I'm afraid the game won't come out before 2016 at the earliest.
Executive Editor (Games) http://www.wccftech.com
Heck how about 2020, 2450, the year 3000!!!!