Originally posted by grimfall It should be pointed out that everyone pretty much admits that Rift was a WoW clone. A well done one with some interesting features, but even it's fans understand that.
Rift is not the first either. For the AAA games of the top of my head:
AoC: WoW with "mature" setting and action-esque combat
Rift: WoW with dynamic events
Aion: WoW with wings
SWTOR: WoW with lightsabers
WAR: WoW with moar PvP
etc. etc.
The problem is that when a game tries to step outside the WoW zone like TSW or FFXIV did, they fail. Now, neither of these games failed because they weren't WoW clones, they failed because they didn't deliver entertainment. The problem is that other publishers see this and start to think straying away from the WoW formula is too risky.
Them games failed cause they were shit, nothing to do with them not being a WoW clone.
Originally posted by grimfall It should be pointed out that everyone pretty much admits that Rift was a WoW clone. A well done one with some interesting features, but even it's fans understand that.
Rift is not the first either. For the AAA games of the top of my head:
AoC: WoW with "mature" setting and action-esque combat
Rift: WoW with dynamic events
Aion: WoW with wings
SWTOR: WoW with lightsabers
WAR: WoW with moar PvP
etc. etc.
The problem is that when a game tries to step outside the WoW zone like TSW or FFXIV did, they fail. Now, neither of these games failed because they weren't WoW clones, they failed because they didn't deliver entertainment. The problem is that other publishers see this and start to think straying away from the WoW formula is too risky.
Please enlighten me and tell me how TSW failed?
Perhaps you should go back and reread the Devs report back to the shareholders that not only did TSW fail to come close to the high end sales projections, it missed the worst case estimates by a considerable margin as well. If you need another clue, look how fast it moved to F2P, almost record time for a AAA MMO title. As for the OP, WOW is just the 800 pound gorilla in the room and it's influence has been felt in far too many other titles that followed after it, at least in the opinion of many posters on this forum. If you're still having fun playing WOW, GAME ON I say.
yeah but there's "failure" and there's failure.
Maybe the problem wasn't that it missed projections maybe the problem was that the projections were way too high?
Heck, when I saw the game and what it was about my first thought was "great game, and niche game".
and yet they expected so much more?
These things are "disasters" not necessarily because they didn't gather players but they didn't gather enough players in relation to how much money was spent on them.
A Poster above indicates that SWToR was a disaster. Yet I met a horde of people at PAX who love SWToR and actively play it. Heck, I was never interested in the game and loved my time in it. It's a good game.
It just can't hold people past the initial storyline and to my point, didn't meet their projections.
And it seems given what I've read that its managment was really great. Would it have cost a lot less if the design was tighter earlier on.
These are decent games, they just can't make the money back that went into them and there are flaws that keep players from staying a long time. Which is why they have to rely upon a constant churn of new players which f2p does provide.
Additionally, if people are trulhy coming from WoW then they expect a certain level of content as other things that WoW has to offer. They get into the "new" game, see it doesn't have the years of development that WoW has and they leave.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
It seems like no matter what thread you pick, no matter what the topic is, there's atleast 2 people saying how much WoW sucks, or when someone says "This game looks alright.", someone says "It looks like a game for WoW players!"
It's almost become a derogatory term, as if playing Rift or SWTOR (two games eerily similar to WoW that noone likes to admit) makes you a better person or something. Its like WoW is a scapegoat in place of someone saying "a bad game" they say "WoW-clone".
Now, I won't butter it up, i've been playing MMO's since a little ways after Ultima Online launched, and quite honestly, until somebody does something drastically different that changes the industry, I'm going to keep playing WoW. Nobody in the last 5 or so years has done anything dramatically different, it's still all the same formula. Regardless of whether WoW is the "bandwagon" game according to many of you, you really can't argue it's overall scope crushes 90% of the MMO's out there. Some of these MMO's i see getting released have a level cap at 40, 8 or 9 zones, Warrior, Thief, Mage, Cleric as their only classes and no other even close to redeeming features, yet even then people will play these games over WoW.
You can all tell me how I'm less of a gamer for playing it now if you like, just giving my two cents.
I had a great time in vanilla WoW and played it for a couple of years. I don't hate it at all, although I did pop in shortly after Cataclysm and didn't agree with their reduction of the skill tree. I think it has a lot going for it, and apparently millions of people enjoy spending their time there.
What I do dislike is the community. That is what ultimately pushed me away to other games. The degree of immaturity that fills the chat is absolutely appalling. What's even worse, and the core issue, is that it exists because of poor moderation by Blizzard. If they set standards for behavior, and enforced them, it wouldn't be in the state that it has evolved to.
Originally posted by grimfall It should be pointed out that everyone pretty much admits that Rift was a WoW clone. A well done one with some interesting features, but even it's fans understand that.
Rift is not the first either. For the AAA games of the top of my head:
AoC: WoW with "mature" setting and action-esque combat
Rift: WoW with dynamic events
Aion: WoW with wings
SWTOR: WoW with lightsabers
WAR: WoW with moar PvP
etc. etc.
The problem is that when a game tries to step outside the WoW zone like TSW or FFXIV did, they fail. Now, neither of these games failed because they weren't WoW clones, they failed because they didn't deliver entertainment. The problem is that other publishers see this and start to think straying away from the WoW formula is too risky.
Them games failed cause they were shit, nothing to do with them not being a WoW clone.
Originally posted by grimfall It should be pointed out that everyone pretty much admits that Rift was a WoW clone. A well done one with some interesting features, but even it's fans understand that.
Rift is not the first either. For the AAA games of the top of my head:
AoC: WoW with "mature" setting and action-esque combat
Rift: WoW with dynamic events
Aion: WoW with wings
SWTOR: WoW with lightsabers
WAR: WoW with moar PvP
etc. etc.
The problem is that when a game tries to step outside the WoW zone like TSW or FFXIV did, they fail. Now, neither of these games failed because they weren't WoW clones, they failed because they didn't deliver entertainment. The problem is that other publishers see this and start to think straying away from the WoW formula is too risky.
Them games failed cause they were shit, nothing to do with them not being a WoW clone.
Always amusing about the whole definition of failure - some of these made a killing in profits.
Uhh... not realy. WAR died and took most of Mythic with it. SWTOR died and took almost the entire development team with it. Rift had to merge servers three times already. Aion failed hard in the west. AoC crashed so hard that two of Funcom's partners filed for bankruptsy and they downsized their dev team.
There hasn't been a successful themepark MMO in ages, except for maybe GW2.
Successful MMOs grow over time and don't peak for YEARS after launch.
Originally posted by grimfall It should be pointed out that everyone pretty much admits that Rift was a WoW clone. A well done one with some interesting features, but even it's fans understand that.
Rift is not the first either. For the AAA games of the top of my head:
AoC: WoW with "mature" setting and action-esque combat
Rift: WoW with dynamic events
Aion: WoW with wings
SWTOR: WoW with lightsabers
WAR: WoW with moar PvP
etc. etc.
The problem is that when a game tries to step outside the WoW zone like TSW or FFXIV did, they fail. Now, neither of these games failed because they weren't WoW clones, they failed because they didn't deliver entertainment. The problem is that other publishers see this and start to think straying away from the WoW formula is too risky.
Them games failed cause they were shit, nothing to do with them not being a WoW clone.
Always amusing about the whole definition of failure - some of these made a killing in profits.
Uhh... not realy. WAR died and took most of Mythic with it. SWTOR died and took almost the entire development team with it. Rift had to merge servers three times already. Aion failed hard in the west. AoC crashed so hard that two of Funcom's partners filed for bankruptsy and they downsized their dev team.
There hasn't been a successful themepark MMO in ages, except for maybe GW2.
Successful MMOs grow over time and don't peak for YEARS after launch.
He said "some" not "all."
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Some of these MMO's i see getting released have a level cap at 40
I don't quite get how this is a problem? Number of levels is a completely arbitrary pacing mechanism. A game could have 10 levels and a hundred times more content than WoW.
Comments
Them games failed cause they were shit, nothing to do with them not being a WoW clone.
yeah but there's "failure" and there's failure.
Maybe the problem wasn't that it missed projections maybe the problem was that the projections were way too high?
Heck, when I saw the game and what it was about my first thought was "great game, and niche game".
and yet they expected so much more?
These things are "disasters" not necessarily because they didn't gather players but they didn't gather enough players in relation to how much money was spent on them.
A Poster above indicates that SWToR was a disaster. Yet I met a horde of people at PAX who love SWToR and actively play it. Heck, I was never interested in the game and loved my time in it. It's a good game.
It just can't hold people past the initial storyline and to my point, didn't meet their projections.
And it seems given what I've read that its managment was really great. Would it have cost a lot less if the design was tighter earlier on.
These are decent games, they just can't make the money back that went into them and there are flaws that keep players from staying a long time. Which is why they have to rely upon a constant churn of new players which f2p does provide.
Additionally, if people are trulhy coming from WoW then they expect a certain level of content as other things that WoW has to offer. They get into the "new" game, see it doesn't have the years of development that WoW has and they leave.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I had a great time in vanilla WoW and played it for a couple of years. I don't hate it at all, although I did pop in shortly after Cataclysm and didn't agree with their reduction of the skill tree. I think it has a lot going for it, and apparently millions of people enjoy spending their time there.
What I do dislike is the community. That is what ultimately pushed me away to other games. The degree of immaturity that fills the chat is absolutely appalling. What's even worse, and the core issue, is that it exists because of poor moderation by Blizzard. If they set standards for behavior, and enforced them, it wouldn't be in the state that it has evolved to.
They were shit because they cloned a shitty game.
Uhh... not realy. WAR died and took most of Mythic with it. SWTOR died and took almost the entire development team with it. Rift had to merge servers three times already. Aion failed hard in the west. AoC crashed so hard that two of Funcom's partners filed for bankruptsy and they downsized their dev team.
There hasn't been a successful themepark MMO in ages, except for maybe GW2.
Successful MMOs grow over time and don't peak for YEARS after launch.
I think we can all agree on this.
Stop trying to destroy the universe.
He said "some" not "all."
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Probably the only thing that everyone will agree on.
Some of these MMO's i see getting released have a level cap at 40
I don't quite get how this is a problem? Number of levels is a completely arbitrary pacing mechanism. A game could have 10 levels and a hundred times more content than WoW.