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Why Neverwinter just might be the ultimate themepark

ZylaxxZylaxx Member Posts: 2,574

Here me out please.

 

What is usually the #1 complaint of the modern Themepark MMO today?  If "not enough content at end-game" is your answer then Neverwinter just might be the game for you.  After watching all of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pn7iU4EwTc PAX 2012 - Neverwinter Foundry demonstration and Q&A, I left in awe with the possiblities of content coming in at an unprecedent rate.  Imagine never worrying about when that next content patch is, as most likely some interped DM's will be churning out hopefully amazing content every single day.

 

Now if your idea of content consists of PvP, lolRaiding, or mega-community style events then Neverwinter might not appeal to you.

 

 

Now I am not completely sold on the game yet, as I am iffy on their payment model (F2P) and do not know if there is a class I want to play yet (please let Sword Mage be in) plus I am skeptical of the 50/50 persistance/instance areas.  But with the ability to play a plethora of dungeons at will has to be right up there on my list of enjoyment.

Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

image

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Comments

  • KuinnKuinn Member UncommonPosts: 2,072

    I hope the foundry will be complex enough so you can really create content that is worthy, and the foundry must support long term play also, adding new rewards, models, and tiles etc, which it no doubt will do.

     

    In the best scenario most talented community members will create better content than devs would, but there will be a massive flood of shit we also need to wade through at times to find the pearls.

  • KuinnKuinn Member UncommonPosts: 2,072
    Originally posted by Zylaxx

     do not know if there is a class I want to play yet (please let Sword Mage be in)

     

    I just wish there's the basic cleric, wizard, and sorcerer in. Wouldnt mind arcane archer on top of that. Though I'm a little afraid of the action style of things since it seems they cant really give us a full blown wizard, sorcerer or cleric since the classes seem to sacrifice a lot of their diversity for the action stuff, I doubt we'll see a wizard with a ton of spells in her spellbook.

  • LobotomistLobotomist Member EpicPosts: 5,932

    User generated content is a holy grail for many developers. And Cryptic was attempting it for long now.

    I really hope it works this time



  • ignore_meignore_me Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 1,987
    Watched the latest bit on Neverwinter. Is it just me, or do we lose hotbar buttons with each new MMO? Pretty soon there will just be one button to press called "Attack"

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Member Posts: 2,574
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    Watched the latest bit on Neverwinter. Is it just me, or do we lose hotbar buttons with each new MMO? Pretty soon there will just be one button to press called "Attack"

    I personally love limited hotbar design.  Its elegant and anything more then 8 abilities is getting in to the realm of to many abilities.  The great thing about limited hotbars + action combat is that your normally more attuned to situational awareness instead of doing a rotation.  The thing that TSW got wrong with their limited botbar setup is they implemented it into a stand still and fight MMO.  In games like NW, GW2, and TESO the action is all about movement and keeping your eye on the action rather on that perfect rotation i.e. WoW style.

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • ignore_meignore_me Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 1,987
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    Watched the latest bit on Neverwinter. Is it just me, or do we lose hotbar buttons with each new MMO? Pretty soon there will just be one button to press called "Attack"

    I personally love limited hotbar design.  Its elegant and anything more then 8 abilities is getting in to the realm of to many abilities.  The great thing about limited hotbars + action combat is that your normally more attuned to situational awareness instead of doing a rotation.  The thing that TSW got wrong with their limited botbar setup is they implemented it into a stand still and fight MMO.  In games like NW, GW2, and TESO the action is all about movement and keeping your eye on the action rather on that perfect rotation i.e. WoW style.

    I think this is where you're going with that --->      image      This will be the next evolution of the hot-bar. Forget having choices of abilities, items and consumables to equip, macros, etc. This will not task your short term memory, nor will it make you decide how you will set up your character's abilities. Die complexity! Die! 

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • BetaguyBetaguy Member UncommonPosts: 2,623
    Can't wait to take this one for a spin...

    image

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Member Posts: 2,574
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    Watched the latest bit on Neverwinter. Is it just me, or do we lose hotbar buttons with each new MMO? Pretty soon there will just be one button to press called "Attack"

    I personally love limited hotbar design.  Its elegant and anything more then 8 abilities is getting in to the realm of to many abilities.  The great thing about limited hotbars + action combat is that your normally more attuned to situational awareness instead of doing a rotation.  The thing that TSW got wrong with their limited botbar setup is they implemented it into a stand still and fight MMO.  In games like NW, GW2, and TESO the action is all about movement and keeping your eye on the action rather on that perfect rotation i.e. WoW style.

    I think this is where you're going with that --->      image      This will be the next evolution of the hot-bar. Forget having choices of abilities, items and consumables to equip, macros, etc. This will not task your short term memory, nor will it make you decide how you will set up your character's abilities. Die complexity! Die! 

    Being facetious does not become you.

     

    Of course that isn't what I mean but it appears you like things like below.  Having that many abilities is silly, archaic and downright ugly.  It takes up so much of the view and it makes you play the hotbar instead of the game.

     

     

     

     

    image

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • corpusccorpusc Member UncommonPosts: 1,341
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    Watched the latest bit on Neverwinter. Is it just me, or do we lose hotbar buttons with each new MMO? Pretty soon there will just be one button to press called "Attack"

    I personally love limited hotbar design.  Its elegant and anything more then 8 abilities is getting in to the realm of to many abilities.  The great thing about limited hotbars + action combat is that your normally more attuned to situational awareness instead of doing a rotation.  The thing that TSW got wrong with their limited botbar setup is they implemented it into a stand still and fight MMO.  In games like NW, GW2, and TESO the action is all about movement and keeping your eye on the action rather on that perfect rotation i.e. WoW style.

    I think this is where you're going with that --->      image      This will be the next evolution of the hot-bar. Forget having choices of abilities, items and consumables to equip, macros, etc. This will not task your short term memory, nor will it make you decide how you will set up your character's abilities. Die complexity! Die! 

     

    complexity is not inherently better or more skillfull.  or even MORE COMPLEX in the gameplay sense.

    a set of 6-10 weapons/abilities in combinative, properly simulated mechanics (say, like in a good FPS game for example) has WAY more gameplay complexity than all the typical MMORPGs with 30-50 hotbar buttons and thousands of items/equipment.

     

    just cuz you have to spend a lot of time learning about the subtle differences between all your many toys (most just barely slightly differing versions of each other), does not mean it takes any brains to use them in hardwired dice rolling whack-a-mole-a-thons.  

    hell, your environment, position, cover, landscape and NONE of that combines with your TAB acquired direct line "interaction" with your target.   unlike a "simple" "one attack button" FPS game, where ALL of that matters and changes the whole situation drastically.

     

    don't be so easily bowled over by raw numbers.   learn about the reality of game mechanics.

     

    Pac-Man and other 80s games are light years ahead of traditional MMORPGs in the gameplay department.

    ---------------------------

    Corpus Callosum    

    ---------------------------


  • tom_goretom_gore Member UncommonPosts: 2,001

    WoW - Playing the hotbar game since 2004.

    Seriously, after playing the current generation of "action"(ish) MMOs I can never go back to standing in the spot and pushing my hotkeys in the perfect rotation.

    In fact, I've pretty much come to the conclusion that more fantasy MMOs should include good gamepad support from the get-go.

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Member Posts: 2,574
    Originally posted by corpusc
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    Watched the latest bit on Neverwinter. Is it just me, or do we lose hotbar buttons with each new MMO? Pretty soon there will just be one button to press called "Attack"

    I personally love limited hotbar design.  Its elegant and anything more then 8 abilities is getting in to the realm of to many abilities.  The great thing about limited hotbars + action combat is that your normally more attuned to situational awareness instead of doing a rotation.  The thing that TSW got wrong with their limited botbar setup is they implemented it into a stand still and fight MMO.  In games like NW, GW2, and TESO the action is all about movement and keeping your eye on the action rather on that perfect rotation i.e. WoW style.

    I think this is where you're going with that --->      image      This will be the next evolution of the hot-bar. Forget having choices of abilities, items and consumables to equip, macros, etc. This will not task your short term memory, nor will it make you decide how you will set up your character's abilities. Die complexity! Die! 

     

    complexity is not inherently better or more skillfull.  or even MORE COMPLEX in the gameplay sense.

    a set of 6-10 weapons/abilities in combinative, properly simulated mechanics (say, like in a good FPS game for example) has WAY more gameplay complexity than all the typical MMORPGs with 30-50 hotbar buttons and thousands of items/equipment.

     

    just cuz you have to spend a lot of time learning about the subtle differences between all your many toys (most just barely slightly differing versions of each other), does not mean it takes any brains to use them in hardwired dice rolling whack-a-mole-a-thons.  

    hell, your environment, position, cover, landscape and NONE of that combines with your TAB acquired direct line "interaction" with your target.   unlike a "simple" "one attack button" FPS game, where ALL of that matters and changes the whole situation drastically.

     

    don't be so easily bowled over by raw numbers.   learn about the reality of game mechanics.

     

    Pac-Man and other 80s games are light years ahead of traditional MMORPGs in the gameplay department.

    Very well said.

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • KuinnKuinn Member UncommonPosts: 2,072
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    Watched the latest bit on Neverwinter. Is it just me, or do we lose hotbar buttons with each new MMO? Pretty soon there will just be one button to press called "Attack"

    I personally love limited hotbar design.  Its elegant and anything more then 8 abilities is getting in to the realm of to many abilities.  The great thing about limited hotbars + action combat is that your normally more attuned to situational awareness instead of doing a rotation.  The thing that TSW got wrong with their limited botbar setup is they implemented it into a stand still and fight MMO.  In games like NW, GW2, and TESO the action is all about movement and keeping your eye on the action rather on that perfect rotation i.e. WoW style.

     

    Pretty much how I like it too. Only I'd like to see these limited hotbar games utilize more ways to use a single ability, lets say you have lighting bolt, you click once on the button and you shoot a basic lighting bolt, but when you press and hold the button you channel continuous beam of lighting with different more powerful effects while being immobile. That's what I'm missing in GW2, you could even add to the lack of character progression by unlocking these secondary actions on abilities later.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo Member CommonPosts: 7,207
    Wow is less complex to play than games like gw2 & tsw. You can play it one handed with a few castsequence macros while watching tv.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo Member CommonPosts: 7,207
    I think the fact that the devs state the game is 50% instanced suggest its very themepark though.
  • immodiumimmodium Member RarePosts: 2,610
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Wow is less complex to play than games like gw2 & tsw. You can play it one handed with a few castsequence macros while watching tv.

    What? So clapping your hands is more complex than writing as your using two hands? :)

    WoW and GW2 are both equally as easy to learn as each other. For me, GW2 is easier to get into than a skill based system like WoW.

    image
  • AG-VukAG-Vuk Member UncommonPosts: 823
    If you want to get as good feel for what a Cryptic product playes and feels like, put away the hype and videos and go play F2P offerings CO and STO. Same engine, and they are pos. Don't take my word for it, go test them yourselfs. The mechanic for the foundry is already there in STO. So stop watching these professionally done hype vids. 

    image
  • ShakyMoShakyMo Member CommonPosts: 7,207
    There's no skill to wow, its just having the right castsequence macros, grinding the right gear and not standing in fire.

    Lots of icons on your toolbar just give the illusion of complexity.

    Of course some people don't like this more action style combat from the likes of gw2 & tsw because you have to pay attention. You can't play them while watching tv, where as with wow and other games you could "grind shit" while watching tv. (you sort of can with gw2 though with the right class / build, but that's more down to the game being too easy than there being less icons on the toolbar)

    Look at this way, you only have "6 items on your toolbar' with street fighter, but its way more complex combat than mmos.

    The best control systems are simple to pick up but have lots of emergent complexity as you get practiced with them and develop your skills. Sticking it right in your have with 40+ skills doesn't make it more complex, especially when you have macros.
  • tom_goretom_gore Member UncommonPosts: 2,001

    You have 30 different abilities, of which maybe 2-3 are applicable in any given moment and even then, only one of them is the one you should use.

  • RyowulfRyowulf Member UncommonPosts: 664
    About having a big skillbar.  People just use macros. If I have to press 10+ buttons in a fight that is waaay to many and all I would be doing is watching my skillbar.
  • immodiumimmodium Member RarePosts: 2,610
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    There's no skill to wow, its just having the right castsequence macros, grinding the right gear and not standing in fire.

    Lots of icons on your toolbar just give the illusion of complexity.

    Of course some people don't like this more action style combat from the likes of gw2 & tsw because you have to pay attention. You can't play them while watching tv, where as with wow and other games you could "grind shit" while watching tv. (you sort of can with gw2 though with the right class / build, but that's more down to the game being too easy than there being less icons on the toolbar)

    Look at this way, you only have "6 items on your toolbar' with street fighter, but its way more complex combat than mmos.

    The best control systems are simple to pick up but have lots of emergent complexity as you get practiced with them and develop your skills. Sticking it right in your have with 40+ skills doesn't make it more complex, especially when you have macros.

    No it's not. It's really easy. (I'm talking about PvE Street Fighter here as you keep mentioning skill rotation in skill based MMO's. You can't keep to skill rotation and watching the telly in PvP MMO's)

    image
  • ZorgoZorgo Member UncommonPosts: 2,254
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    Watched the latest bit on Neverwinter. Is it just me, or do we lose hotbar buttons with each new MMO? Pretty soon there will just be one button to press called "Attack"

    EQ released with limited slots for the hotbar; in fact you can augment the number with AAs, but it is still limited. You have far more abilities than you have space on your bar. DCUO and GW2 would be other examples. 

    Some games are designed this way as a way of adding the challenge of knowing the 'right' spell to load for the 'right' situation. 

    Done correctly, this can actually add complexity to the game.

    But just fyi, EQ's original warrior pretty much had:

    attack, kick, bash and taunt. Forever.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo Member CommonPosts: 7,207
    Yeah but your wrong. Way more complexity in Sf with what counters what, getting combos off, what breaks defences,what counters breakers, when to use charge, setting up attacks on the reverse side etc..

    Sure easy modes solo you can just block,bash what looks like the appropriate button and spam the odd special move. But tournament play and even harder difficulty solo play is way more complex than typical mmo combat.
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,813
    No pvp is a huge minus. It kinda throws the virtual world thing out the window. I'm a huge D&D fan who loves the neverwinter lore, but I wont be playing. Companies that neglect pvp will regret it.
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • botrytisbotrytis Member RarePosts: 3,363
    Originally posted by coretex666
    Originally posted by tom_gore

    You have 30 different abilities, of which maybe 2-3 are applicable in any given moment and even then, only one of them is the one you should use.

     2-3?

    Ever played WoW PVP?

    I play rogue...I get engaged as a warrior, I can go with:

    Blind to CC, Dismantle to disable his skills and fight, Vanish + sprint to run away, Evasion to avoid dmg, CoS to reduce dmg, Shadow dance + cheap shot to CC and fight, Vanish + SAP, Vanish + cheap shot, Shadowstep + backstab, vanish + shadowstep + ambush / cheap shot, gouge,... these are just moves I can think of immediately, there are many more moves you can make. Many skills do provide you with variety of actions you can take...

    Imagine you have 6 skills...what would you do  

    Most of the skills are so conditional that they need to be used in only one or two situations. Not very useful.


  • revy66revy66 Member Posts: 464
    Originally posted by bcbully
    No pvp is a huge minus. It kinda throws the virtual world thing out the window. I'm a huge D&D fan who loves the neverwinter lore, but I wont be playing. Companies that neglect pvp will regret it.

    They already said there will be pvp at launch, it's one of the reasons they delayed the game.

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