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View on the Current MMORPG situation.

   This is for all the veteran players out there and I ask you to really look into yourselves and think about your early days when MMORPGs were few and far between. If you were a pioneer then you should know how I feel. 

   I have played mmorpgs for a very long time. Since the first days of Meridian 59 to the first beta tests of Everquest. From the first extremely buggy days of Anarchy Online, to the beginnings of Dark Ages of Camelot.  I have learned a lot of insight from all this playing and leveling and socializing. I have seen what makes a game quality, and what "keeps a player entertained". Nowadays with so much competition between MMORPG's my mind is clouded by all the options available. In one way, I like the diversity out there and the options, but on the other hand I feel like no matter where I turn I lead to dead ends. I will explain...

   As I logged into Everquest for the first time, I experienced something I will never forget.  I created my first character ( a barbarian in Halas) and explored the city.  At first I thought, "this isn't so special". I wandered around and found some npc's etc. I exited Halas for the first time into Everfrost Peaks. I was standing there just wandering, when all the sudden another player ran by and attacked a polar bear cub in front of me. I watch him fight the bear with all his might and shortly thereafter he kneeled down to loot the corpse.  He then approaced me and we had a short discussion in which he told me the route to the acclaimed Blackburrow. "Be Careful! " he said. "The gnolls are dangerous!" He handed me 2 gold ( which seemed a fortune!) and I bought me a backpack and a few items and went out in the the great Peaks!. I wandered towards to famed tunnels and I was scared as hell! When I found Blackburrow it was a paradise of killing and exploring!

   After this experience, I was extremely in awe when I look back.  The effect it had on me was profound.  This simple interaction was unheard of to most of my peers and people around me at the time. (In a way it was incomprehendable to most) This was leading edge technology and I was in a "NEW WORLD NOW". 

  These days, all MMORPG's seem like they are worthy of this experience and more, but I feel like they fail in the way of delivering that first "Shock and Awe" of your virgin MMORPG experiences.  I am corrupted by my own device in that it will never be the same!  MMORPG's aren't TOUGH anymore!  Does anyone remember how extremely hard EQ was at release?  It seemed IMPOSSIBLE. But you know what? That's what made it so intriguing! 

   As my barbarian warrior progressed in lvls, he was around lvl 12. I had saved enough to by a few peices of banded and I also bought a bronze bracer and arms from someone selling them for 2pp per AC (which was standard price...1pp per AC for banded).  I wielded a Fine Steel Long Sword as well as my "COVETED" Shiny Brass Shield from atop the orc hill in Crushbone.  I was hanging around the castle there in Crushbone when I came across a lvl 43 warrior in FULL CRAFTED!!!   "WOW!!", I thought. There was a crowd of people around him just looking at that fine blue tinted armor glowing. He put on a show and killed DVinn right in front of us!!  That's when I realized for the final time that I was playing a game that I would never stop playing, and that I would never forget.  Sure enough that was true, and it's been 7 years of nonstop experiences, some have been the most incredible ever. 

   But other games  fall way short.........YOUR FIRST MMORPG WILL ALWAYS BE THE BEST.  And maybe the last if you are like me. I would just love to hear what others have to say about this and see if they feel the same way. Is there a way to get that "Shock and Awe" back? or will I have to wait till some new concept of online rpg's come out?  Virtualy reality MMORPG? lol. Who knows?  Tell me your stories and what has impacted you the most out of MMORPGs. 

Chonka Kimoto 70 Shaman (EQ I since beta) - Retired
Azuri Spiritweaver 26 Mystic / 13 Craftsman (EQ II) - Retired due to boredom
Azuri Jingizu W/N20 (Guild Wars)

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Comments

  • SkarsTZSkarsTZ Member Posts: 78

    I personally think you are both right and wrong and Imho it comes down to 2 points.

    1. I think that your first MMORPG is always going to be more magical, the world is more immersive than any other games, the interaction is better, more community etc. Everything is new and special and that means a lot to people (I know it does to me). However I do think that games in the future can "recapture the magic," I'm just of the belief it will be much more difficult.

    2. I think that a lot of the more current MMORPGs are not catering to this lifestyle. I think that everyone is seeing the success that EQ has had and trying to make a game without the downsides of EQ. Unfortunately I think that most of these games are also missing what made EQ so great. But that is just my opinion and I accept that some people will think this new trend is wonderful.

  • VolkmarVolkmar Member UncommonPosts: 2,501

    you are probably right in the fact that your first Mmorpg can shape your impressions and your expectations.

    You now are linked to EQ and expect the other games to be like it, but better. But they can't be "better" cause your linking make EQ better.... so it is an unending cicle.

    Personally i started with Ultima Online and i couldn't , no i really could not, suffer EQ. This seems actually to be quite common. if you started with EQ you can't stand UO and other way around. The game's concepts were diametrically opposite (With EQ being a traditional CRPG/Mud like DaoC, WoW and EQ2, while UO was the first experiment of Virtual world more akin to EVE/SWG).

    Still, with the passing of years and experiences, my perception changed. It is not that i do not like UO anymore (i haven't been playing it for years, so i wouldn't know), but i realized that kind of games required a certain amount of time i had when i was going to high school and i do not have anymore now.

    I stopped being a "Power Role player" and became a "Casual Role player". i can't play anymore whole afternoons, but just a few hours in the evenings (if even those). As a result, games that takes years (especially for a casual like me) to give rewards did not appeal to me. I remember, with bad taste in my mouth, whole days wasted in that damn Bone plains killing spiders and scorpions. Limited to couple regions where i was supposed to kill the same scorpions, skeletons or spiders over and over for hours so i could move on. I tried exploring and this huge forest giant came out of nowhere and smashed me in no time at all, so i decided it wasn't good to.

    UO didn't require so much time and you could go anywhere you wanted pretty soon, the problem there is that any Virtual World game gives you back in proportion in how much you give to it. If you go to UO expecting an EQ experience, you will be sorely disappointed. there was no phat loot there, no named uber artefacts, no shining armors and so on. there were what? 5? 6? type of magical weapons and about same of magical armors and that was about it. Everybody had same spells and so on. The time sink there was the society. No /tell and no general chat means if you wanna meet somebody you go in the taverns and meet them there. Or get to a player city and do it there. Build an house for yourself, decorate it and start having a circle of friends/allies.

    UO was a much more social game than EQ (not in the sense that EQ didn't favor social interaction, but in the sense it was based on it), but still required quite much time and effort if you wanted to get most out from it.

    I still appreciate Virtual Worlds and i do understand they are the only way to give more complete immersion. but i came to appreciaye also the other genre, the CRPG/Mud type. cause it is faster, more immediate, more..... fun with less effort.

    Have a nice day.

    "If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"



  • ChonkaChonka Member Posts: 27
       I personally never played UO, but I have friend that has and he swears by it. I imagine that it would have the same effect as long as that was a first experience.  UO didn't appeal to me at the time because it wasn't as 3D....and this is when Everquest's oldworld "crap" graphics actually looked good! 

    Chonka Kimoto 70 Shaman (EQ I since beta) - Retired
    Azuri Spiritweaver 26 Mystic / 13 Craftsman (EQ II) - Retired due to boredom
    Azuri Jingizu W/N20 (Guild Wars)

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  • JackgreyJackgrey Member Posts: 15

    Well in my experience? I played pen and paper rpg's for years.

    I was imprisoned from 96-01 and I even made up my own rpg's, quite in-depth, I might add.

    But when I came home? I LOATHED the crappy 3D environments that these games tried to capture.

    I found Ashen Empires. It is 2D....but the gameplay/commuinity is there. I will never find another game that captures me in this way. I have tried and tried to search out others....they all bore me.

    So, I suppose there is truth to your claim of the first MMORPG you played holding a place in your heart and soul...making others pale in comparison....regardless of their "features".

  • EraserheadEraserhead Member UncommonPosts: 343

    Chonka. after playing many different mmorpgs after my first one I have come to the same conclusion.  The concept of a massively multiplayer online world is such a great one that the first time you experience it, it casts a rose coloured glow(understatement) or magic over whatever it is you are playing whether it was EQ, UO or something later like Mir in my case.  I don't believe that initial experience can be relived without a radical new game concept and I've no idea what that might be.  So I would agree that to most people their first mmorpg will probably be their best and until something special is released you are not likely to find a similar buzz or magic no matter how many games you try.

    You made another point, games are increasingly becoming more 'joe public' friendly which often means easier.  Some new developers start removing what they percieve as negative things without realising that it's sometimes these things that make the positive things have so much value.  The harder it is the more value the reward has.

    Maybe more cultish (for want of a better word) mmorpgs that do not pander to the wants of the mass market are the way forward for more experienced players.

  • superhero13superhero13 Member Posts: 170

    Im inclined to agree with the OP. I wont go back through my history, but Im beginning to believe that the best days were the first ones.

  • ChorseryChorsery Member Posts: 22

    I've oft been impressed with the sociology and psychology behind mmorpg's and I'm wondering if this 'shock and awe' experience that I think we all went through with our first experience might be clearly explained by psychological theories identified and applied in other venues. Certainly as human beings, we hunger for the new, are thrilled by exploration, and intriqued by the creative genius of others.

    It's interesting to me as well that these early games grabbed you with graphics and music far less sophisticated then today's games. I actually enjoyed the games more with the earlier mmorpg's then I do now. For me that means that 'the game' is more then the graphics/music.

    A similar analogy might be the continued playability of Monopoly or Risk - board games that have been around for more then half a century, and yet if you play them, you still enjoy the game. So, there's something intrinsically valuable and interesting about the game itself - the interaction of the game within the mind and amongst the players, aside from the purely sensual impact.

    I agree that by making the games more widely accessible and therefore, in some ways, less difficult, some of what appealed to us in the early stages of the genre has been lost. Akin to the "WalMart" effect - appealing to the masses, while losing the quality (e.g. not the bells and whistles, not the size of the game, but the 'game' itself becomes less interesting).

    Still, many businesses are succesful against the WalMarts of the world, by providing stellar customer service, appealing to a niche market, and doing that better then anyone else.

    Some my lossed interest is because the 'game' is essentially the same, no matter how you wrap it and flower it up with eye candy. I'm more interested in who does the game the best, and less interested in what kind of wrapping the put the game in.

    I'm sure this site has been referenced before, but for a more indepth look at the social science behind mmorpg's visit: http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/

  • WickesWickes Member UncommonPosts: 749

    Excellent post, Chonka.  Although I'd already been in online gaming for years, my early mmorpg experience was remarkably like yours - right down to my first EQ character being a barb. 

    The "first mmorpg" factor is siginificant, but it is not nearly what many want to make of it.  People who didn't experience early EQ will never understand how difficult it was, and thus they will never understand how that difficulty level built a remarkable community and created shared experiences that will never be forgotten.  Then there are the people who played it but couldn't or wouldn't deal with it even then, and those don't understand what was positive about it.

    Anyway, those days are long gone in my view.

    The old breed of mmorpg gamer now says "I did it once and it was fabulous but I can't or won't do it again".  Unfortunately, I have to count myself in this group ... however great it was, I am simply not willing to put in that kind of time again.

    The new breed of mmorpg gamer says "I won't do it ... I want things fast and simple".  They aren't willing to struggle for anything ... they don't have the slighest notion of the principle that things easily gotten mean nothing.  They want nothing more than an illusion of challenge.

    Then we have the increasingly anti-social bent of these games (and gamers).  People simply want to solo everything.  Their idea of a social game is to play their box game in a big chat room.

    Thus we get the current selection of game offerings, all of which are essentially easy in comparison. Most games are designed to sell boxes fast and to keep people entertained briefly.  The players go ga-ga initially, then get bored fast, and start complaining and waiting for "the next game" to save them.  They get exactly what they asked for, it produces the completely predictable result, and most players never realize it.  And across the net you see endless threads wondering why the current selection of games produces no long-lasting satisfaction.

    Such is the state of mmorpg gaming.  One can only hope somebody decides to break off from the pack and take some risks.

  • tu_uilwentu_uilwen Member Posts: 794

    Well Chonka here is how I feel:

    I started I tyhink about 3-4 years ago with EQ.....I loved it then and I still do....I jsut can't play cause I lost all my discs and I havce to reinstall. But I ahve a lvl 43 Wood Elf Ranger on the Tunare server. And now I am playing WoW, CoH. I love wow and I love CoH, but you knwo I always find my self in the defense of EQ because just like you my first experiences in EQ were awesome. Finding my first item or armor, crafting my first item, it was cool.

    Althought, I think WoW had a bigger impact on me. Only because the main towns for all the races are amazing. When I made my first Orc and walked around Orgrimmar, saw all the tauren and orc NPC's.

    See tho I like the fact that wow is easy only because instead of trying to figure out the riddle clues for a quest in EQ they tell you what you need to do exactly, so its like more umm...let em see like more realistic in a sense to where if someone would give someone else a mission they know some facts and stuff for that mission.

    and the mounts are awesome, each race with a specific mount which is cool, and sooner or later, most likely later there will be hero classes which is gonna have a big impact on the game. The honor system which is coming hopefully soon will be really cool.

    See also in EQ there was no real warring factions, orcsm trolls, Dark elfs, Iksar all able to team with humans and all the "good" races. Thats what I like in WoW if your good or evil......you can only group with your set allience. So it makes a for a cool factor.

     

    And don't get me wrong I am not saying your wrong in ANY way. cause EQ impacted me too, EQ was my home, my start, and my love. Jsut I think for me WoW did a bigger and better job for me. But other then that I agree with you.

    EQ:
    -Kalolas Iceslash(dead)-40 Wood Elf Warrior
    -Uilwen Iceslash(dead till i get EQ again)-43 Wood elf Ranger

    WoW:
    -Agan lvl 39 Orc Warrior
    -Jurack lvl 21 Human Rogue

    ---------------------------------------------
    WoW
    -Rhalon 85 B.E. rogue
    -Rhalon 81 UD Mage
    -Doneski 85 Orc death knight

    "Everyones life has a beginning and an end, No one can change that."-Hiko
    "If you wish to taste the ground, then feel free to attack."-Kenshin Himura
    ---------------------------------------------
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  • GichinGichin Member Posts: 11

    I agree that the virgin experience is tough to match.

    My first on-line game was Diablo 1 on battlenet.  I really enjoyed hanging with my buds adventuring, loved the mood of the music.  Hated it when some hacker killed me over and over in town just to collect ears for some stupid PK guild he had.

    My first MMORPG as AC1.  Loved it.  I really liked the fact that I could explore all on my own or adventure with others.  AC fell apart for me when the experience chains and macros took over the game, until then the game was brilliant.

    Since, I have played a bunch and not one has kept my attention like AC did.  I have fooled around with UO, but it seems like UO is on the downswing, economy is messed up, et cetera.  Played WOW in beta -- enjoyed it, but people were really anti-social.

    I played EQ2 from November ... still have an account, but I think I am done.  It just takes too much time for me.  Meeting with friends takes 30-45 minutes to get everyone together.  Cross three zones, wait for the slow zoner, but the time we are all to where we are going and hour and a half has passed and I need to log.  I do not like the forced grouping of the con system.  I do not like the instances, and I especially hate the access quests of running back and forth for hours and hours just to be able to go somplace.  Plus, they totally screwed crafting royally by starting in one direction then gutting it multiple months into the game.

    Other games I have played: Rubies of Eventide before it nuked the first time; Dransik in beta; Ragnorak; Priston Tale; Guild Wars during open beta a bit ago; Fairyland (actually sort of enjoyed that); Final Fantasy XI for a couple months; probably a few others that are escaping my mind now.

    Ultimately, the idea of the MMORPG really appeals to me, but the execution does not.  Most of the games that seem interesting also seem to be adhering to a forced grouping concept.

    I liked in AC that the creatures were running around free and could swamp folks.  It seems like locked encounters have been the response of all the games to kill stealing, but in the end, this game dynamic has taken away some of the fun.  I liked running by and healing someone else or buffing them up as a drive by.  Anti-twinking by devs in most new games takes away one of the more fun elements to me.

    I see a lot of games putting in code and game dynamics like those (forced grouping, con systems, instancing, less painful death, no buffing outside a group, group level limits, locked encounters) to solve problems ... but they end up taking out much of the free flow that made the games fun and interesting to begin with.

    Finally, the time sink element is a real problem for me.  I am all for a challenge hour or two.  I cannot devote my life to a computer game, and that seems like what many games seem to call for.  I also recognize that WOW is an exception to that, and I probably would have bought that if not for the problems at launch and the end of beta.  But WOW also seems to lack in depth and complexity of character development and planning which is one thing I like.

  • codexiacodexia Member Posts: 120

    I like to think i've been playing MMO games for a long time, but in reality...I suppose I haven't.  My first online experience with multiplayer games was the original Diablo.  After that, DAoC.  Diablo seems to me to be the best game now, which would agree with the original poster.  Diablo 2 is the only game online that has kept me as hooked, other games just seem slower now.

    The one thing I have to say that destroys Diablo 2 though is the hacking...even on closed net it's possable to find ways into loopholes.  Other games make is very hard to do, and the community on other games is so much deeper.  In Diablo, about all you do is announce various situations when they arrize, and just slaughter.  Camelot is my fondest memories for actual MMO games, the world just seemed so much deeper then the other ones.  I've played a few since Camelot, Shadowbane, WoW, EQ2, Shattered Galaxy (if you can count that, it's not really an RPG), City of Heroes, Ryzom, Ragnarok Online, ElKardian, Guild Wars, Matrix, FFXI, probobly a few others I forget, i've been doing them ever since Camelot..they're all good in their own way, but Camelot is still the magical game, even though I don't really play it anymore.

    MMOGames just don't seem to catch me like they used to...so much endless grinding and work make the game just that, work.  I'm still waiting for a new MMO to catch me like Camelot used to, to make me really feel like I'm part of your world, and that the people are really people and not just machines who think of nothing but leveling.  Sitting around and chatting is part of what makes MMO games fun to me...but nobody ever seems to do it anymore.  Someday...I hope :)

  • ChonkaChonka Member Posts: 27
    I totally agree with you all and I feel better knowing I"m not the only one that feels this way.  Right now I'm playing EQII after moving on from EQ1 and I hate it.  I loved it at first, but its just not the same. I long for the days when things were tough...and the stakes were high.  I had a great idea though, .... EQ needs to make a server with ONLY the old world on it! I would love that.

    Chonka Kimoto 70 Shaman (EQ I since beta) - Retired
    Azuri Spiritweaver 26 Mystic / 13 Craftsman (EQ II) - Retired due to boredom
    Azuri Jingizu W/N20 (Guild Wars)

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  • Wharg0ulWharg0ul Member Posts: 4,183

    this is why I like MxO so much. It reminds me of MY first MMO, which was very early Anarchy Online. After SL basically ruined the game, I went from game to game to game, and all of them felt stale and hollow. MxO is the first game I've played since then that has captured the intangible "thing" I was missing in other games.

    So, there's hope. Just keep trying new games 'till that spark ignites again. Then pull all-nighters with yer mates! ::::02::

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  • GabsGabs Member Posts: 92

    although the first MMO may be the funnest experience, it won't necessarily be the best MMO for a person.

    although neocron was my first, it was my most enjoyable, but only because i honestly haven't found anything better.

    coming from an FPS background, i want FPS pvp integrated into the entire game world, conquerable areas, dynamic destructible buildings and a decent size player base. neocron came close, but i'm currently looking forward to twilight war and i believe could end up being a better game.

  • n2soonersn2sooners Member UncommonPosts: 926

    I think another thing people may be forgetting is what you knew, or more likely, what you didn't know when you started playing your first MMORPG. When you first start, it is much less likely that you did any deep research into the game. You probably just read the little manual that came with the game (or skimmed it while installing), and then jumped into the game learning through trial and error. After that first game, something inticed you to switch or at least try out another game. You likely went to all the websites and read up everything about it. You probably had your race and class or skills picked before you even bought the game. People know more about games that aren't released yet than most probably knew about their first MMORPG.

    And I agree that some of the games are tending to go overboard on taking away what was "wrong" with this game or that. Yes, dying in EQ sucked, but that was what made you fear dying and made the blood start pumping with each dangerous encounter. That fear of death and risk vs reward may be making a return to gaming in Vanguard. I don't know if it will come close to capturing the magic of EQ for me, but if anyone can do it the the Vanguard team will.

    Now if someone will just come along and make the next generation DAoC with three way RvR in a new (and hopefully more balanced) package....

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  • geldgeld Member Posts: 129

    Chonka.

    I definately believe that first mmorpg experience can be experienced again. After all, I'm sure the first game you ever played and enjoyed wasn't an mmorpg. Yet you still managed to have such an experience with EQ because it was 'something new'.

    So you can experience that feeling again, but in order to do that you have to stop looking at EQ with such fondness, wanting every game in the future to be like it. Because you have already experienced that, so experiencing it again doesn't taste as sweet.

    The problem is that all of the games you mentioned are EXACTLY THE SAME as EQ (well, for all intents and purposes). So if you continue to stick to the same experiences over and over again they will lose their appeal. You need to find something new.

    Only when an mmorpg comes out that doesn't revolve around linear advancement through killing monsters or questing. One that lets you experience things you have never experienced before in an mmorpg. Then you may find that excitement again, that sense of awe that you once had.

    *Signature*The Pessimist says the cup is half empty. The Optimist says the cup is half full. The Pragmatist says the cup is half full of air. The Engineer says the cup is operating at 50% capacity. The Psychologist says the cup is your mother. The Punk Kid also says the cup is your mother. The Cricket Player says his cup is definately full. Everyone knows that Pamela Andersons cups are full. The Defendant says it was like that when he found it. Me, I just ask the waitress for a refill.

  • ShinhoShinho Member Posts: 3

    Nice post Chonka you pretty much summed it up how I felt about EQ my first MMORPG and the wanna-bie MMO's that have come out since. image

    I started playing EQ back in August of 99, I was totally hooked from the first moment I logged into the game world. I played EQ solid for 3 years and had over 200 days played on my char before I hit 60. Looking back now, for me it was Verant had created a World not a Game. I suppose thats why most new MMO's dont appeal to me because they Games not Worlds, lacking a soul image

    I've been following the developement of Vanguard its being made by the original makers of EQ and have Microsoft backing. Brad has promised to bring back a challenging game, if you loved EQ pre-Luclin then he has said we'll like Vanguard. Vanguard is really my last hope, if it doesnt work out i'll be hanging up my MMO gloves for good image




  • Originally posted by Chonka

       This is for all the veteran players out there and I ask you to really look into yourselves and think about your early days when MMORPGs were few and far between. If you were a pioneer then you should know how I feel. 

       I have played mmorpgs for a very long time. Since the first days of Meridian 59

       Wow, you are more than a veteran! You are a grandfather player! LOL!

    to the first beta tests of Everquest. From the first extremely buggy days of Anarchy Online,

       The days of AO are when I first started playing MMORPGs. image I remember AO being the first ever worse released MMORPG. Then WW2Online took the crown. AC2 currently holds it, and is keeping it so far. image

    to the beginnings of Dark Ages of Camelot.  I have learned a lot of insight from all this playing and leveling and socializing. I have seen what makes a game quality, and what "keeps a player entertained". Nowadays with so much competition between MMORPG's my mind is clouded by all the options available. In one way, I like the diversity out there and the options, but on the other hand I feel like no matter where I turn I lead to dead ends. I will explain...

      I see your point, and I agree more than disagree. I disagree because every year there are thousands of brand new gamers playing MMORPGs for the first time. After a while, new players will outnumber veteran players. I think right now it is 50/50. SWG was the first MMORPG that brought in players who never played a MMORPG before. WoW went even further than SWG. Soon the rest of the MMORPG industry will feel the secondary waves as all those new players SWG and WoW got, start exploring... xploooring... the other MMORPGs.

       As I logged into Everquest for the first time, I experienced something I will never forget. 

       Playing your first MMORPG is like when you go on your first ever date, or your first kiss. (or as anyone who has been in the military, or in the police know... killing your first man.) No one ever forgets!

    I created my first character ( a barbarian in Halas) and explored the city.  At first I thought, "this isn't so special". I wandered around and found some npc's etc. I exited Halas for the first time into Everfrost Peaks. I was standing there just wandering, when all the sudden another player ran by and attacked a polar bear cub in front of me. I watch him fight the bear with all his might and shortly thereafter he kneeled down to loot the corpse.  He then approaced me and we had a short discussion in which he told me the route to the acclaimed Blackburrow. "Be Careful! " he said. "The gnolls are dangerous!" He handed me 2 gold ( which seemed a fortune!) and I bought me a backpack and a few items and went out in the the great Peaks!. I wandered towards to famed tunnels and I was scared as hell! When I found Blackburrow it was a paradise of killing and exploring!

       After this experience, I was extremely in awe when I look back.  The effect it had on me was profound.  This simple interaction was unheard of to most of my peers and people around me at the time. (In a way it was incomprehendable to most) This was leading edge technology and I was in a "NEW WORLD NOW". 

       You are fully correct! This is what makes MMORPGs sooo distinct from all other types of computer games. The chance to interact with thousands of other real life players. You can litterally meet a different person every single time you log on and play! 

      These days, all MMORPG's seem like they are worthy of this experience and more, but I feel like they fail in the way of delivering that first "Shock and Awe" of your virgin MMORPG experiences.  I am corrupted by my own device in that it will never be the same!  MMORPG's aren't TOUGH anymore!  Does anyone remember how extremely hard EQ was at release?  It seemed IMPOSSIBLE. But you know what? That's what made it so intriguing! 

       I agree with you fully here! But who's fault is it that MMORPGs are being dumbed down? SWG used to have it that when you died you saw your skeleton on the ground and had to come back and loot it if you did not insure your stuff. SWG planned to have permadeath for a certain specific profession, but then LucasArts beat up the SWG game DEVs into not putting it in. EQ dumbed down death in an attempt in their minds, to prolong players playing EQ.

      It also involves current culture.... the majority of youger gamers are very impatient, impatient, impatient. They litterally do not know what they want, even when they say what they think they want. They whine about everything. They ask questions already answered in FAQs. They are too impatient to read, think, explore, find out things on their own.

       As my barbarian warrior progressed in lvls, he was around lvl 12. I had saved enough to by a few peices of banded and I also bought a bronze bracer and arms from someone selling them for 2pp per AC (which was standard price...1pp per AC for banded).  I wielded a Fine Steel Long Sword as well as my "COVETED" Shiny Brass Shield from atop the orc hill in Crushbone.  I was hanging around the castle there in Crushbone when I came across a lvl 43 warrior in FULL CRAFTED!!!   "WOW!!", I thought. There was a crowd of people around him just looking at that fine blue tinted armor glowing. He put on a show and killed DVinn right in front of us!!  That's when I realized for the final time that I was playing a game that I would never stop playing, and that I would never forget.  Sure enough that was true, and it's been 7 years of nonstop experiences, some have been the most incredible ever. 

       7  years?! Ouch! Heheh! image image image imageimageimage

       But other games  fall way short.........YOUR FIRST MMORPG WILL ALWAYS BE THE BEST.  And maybe the last if you are like me. I would just love to hear what others have to say about this and see if they feel the same way. Is there a way to get that "Shock and Awe" back? or will I have to wait till some new concept of online rpg's come out?  Virtualy reality MMORPG? lol. Who knows?  Tell me your stories and what has impacted you the most out of MMORPGs. 



      You, me, and everyone else, will NEVER re-experience the "shock and awe" when playing our first ever MMORPG. Though I did come close to it when I played SWG for the first time. I spent 1 entire day fooling around with the character creation screen. The wailing, background music set the "shock-like awe-like" mood even more.

     My first ever "real" MMORPG was Asheron's Call. I was a super newbie. I got killed soo much I was ready to give up the first day I played. But I was shocked and awed at how many high level players were willing to stop what they were doing, and helped me out to find my corpses, and escort me back to safer areas. AC1 has an open game world, so you can go in any direction. I found out the hard way there are no zones LOL! Monsters will chase you down! I later found that if you cross a deep enough river, monsters will ususally give up the chase.

      I once spent 2 hours in a dungeon being chased by 3 skeletons. My heart was hurting because I didn't want to die, and have to go through sooo much to retrieve my corpse. I had to think while running and hiding. It ended with me killing them 1 by one and making it out after coming up with some tactics.

    --------------------------------------

     IMHO the only way you, me, anyone, will ever come close to re-experiencing the same, or simular, awe and shock when we played our first MMORPG... is if and when a MMORPG is made about whatever your personally favorite specific subject is. For example:

       1. I am a hardcore Star Wars fan. Even though I played AC, EQ, and other MMORPGs, and thus was a mmorpg veteran.....  before SWG came out. When SWG did come out, and I logged in for the first time..... I still felt awe and shock when I first played SWG. Because SWG was more than right down my alley. It was right down the center of my soul, touching on something I was into ever since I was a weee little kid.

       2. There is talk of STO (Star Trek Online) being made. It still has not reached beta yet. But say for example you Chonka, who is a super-mmorpg-veteran, were also a hardcore Star Trek fan, you very likely will re-feel the same awe and shock when you first login to STO. Because ST fans have never ever had a MMORPG of their favorite subject made.

       3. Same with DO. (Dune Online ... LOL!). There is a market for a Dune MMORPG. But one is not even being planned or made right now. But if one ever is... there are many veteran MMORPG players who say they'd be there in less than a heartbeat.

       4. Same with B5O (Bablyon 5 Online... LOL!). Many veteran MMORPG players say this would be a dream come true and they would never leave their room if one were ever made.

     

     If you are not a fan of any specific subject, that could be made into a MMORPG... well... then there is absolutly no chance of you ever feeling the same or simular shock and awe again. image

    image image image image image image image image

    -Personal Website (A Work still in progress):
    http://www.geocities.com/xplororor/index.html

    -AC, AC2, AO, EQ, Freelancer, SWG:
    http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor

    -More SWG:
    http://community.webshots.com/user/captain_sica_xol

    -More EQ, Dungeon Siege, *UXO*, Diablo II:Lords of Destruction:
    http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01

    -EverQuest II, Horizons:
    http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_eq2archives01

    -EVE Online !!!
    http://community.webshots.com/user/sica_xol_archives01

    -DAoC
    http://community.webshots.com/user/sica_xol_archives02

    -Coming sooner or later... CoH, WoW, MXO, UO, GW, As3, RS

  •  I forgot to mention,

     what is needed is a specific subject that already has a superlong fan following image... and...

    ... MUSIC! imageimageimage

     Music helps to set the mood, helps to inspire awe and shock.

      The music in the SWG char creation process is a nice little example. It stirs one's emotions. Many SWG players still complain there is not enough music in the rest of the SWG game. That most of the music is during the char creation process! LOL!

      Another better example is the music in Anarchy Online. I still remember the first time I ventured into the player apartments area in the mega-city Omni, and I was forced to stop and feel the techno-punk-industrial music hit me.

     Just like right now people have listened to hundreds of rock, pop, metal, rap, jazz, classic, bands, but still buy new rock, pop, jazz, metal, classic, rap, bands. Because no matter how much previously NICE music you listen to... you will and can, still experience NEW NICE music that makes you want to listen to it! image image

  • stephen_sofstephen_sof Member Posts: 388

    my advise for all future mmo's your 1st mmo should sux hardcore like project-entropia which was my 1st gaming experence then all mmo's look badass and fun to play :P

    "It's the darkness that brings us power"

  • punkrockpunkrock Member Posts: 1,777
    my first mmorpg was daoc. god i love that game i always go back to it everytime. even when i quit it for about 5 months to look for another mmorpg i always go back haha. heck i miss it know dam i need to really play that game again haha. but i cant right know haha sukcs no money. playing xbox live free for a year woot haha.
  • CenthanCenthan Member Posts: 483

    I have responded to posts similar to this before in the same way I am going to now.

    I feel the same way that many of the people responding here do.  My first MMO (EQ) was by far my best experience.  I started playing just after the initial release and had a ball for years.  I remember my first time leaving Freeport and traveling to the FAR away 3rd Inn in the East Commons.  What a creepy, frightening and exciting experience that was for me.  Dungeons like Befallen and places like Crushbone where simply beyond fun.  You lived the world that you were gaming in.

    Ultimately, just ONE of the things that killed it for me was when the game became a game of "those with the most toys wins" type of game.  Which I would estimate began around the time of the SoL expansion when the huge influx of greed started the spiral downward.

    I look back now and will never be that involved in an MMO, where I would spend days straight playing it.  It was an incredible and highly addictive game that ironically (and thankfully) I am glad another has not hooked me like that one (nor ever will).

    Every other MMO that I have tried after EQ (DAoC, AO, CoH, SWG, Planetside, EQ2, WoW, etc) just didn't keep my interest very long or rekindle my old EQ feelings.  All of the fantasy based MMOs that have come out (or are coming out) just look like the same package with slightly different wrapping.

    Also, as the popularity of MMOs grow the quality ultimatly will goes down (just like anything else that becomes popular).  I think what happened to the MMO genre in general was in the beginning only a relatively few number of people played them.  Old school roleplayers, computer "geeks", etc.  Now that the industry is trying to appeal to a larger, mass market, they are trying to "dumb down" the games so a wider group can enjoy them.  This makes the "hard core" (probably the wrong term) gamers scratch their collective heads and say "what happened to the good 'ole days when the MMOs used to be challenging, fun, and were an incredible gaming experience".

    So I am pretty burnt out on the whole MMO genre in general.  The last one I will try is D&D Online simply because those are my roots from the old pencil and paper days, and I am curious see how well they will transform the flavor of that to an online game.

    I still haven't figured the whole thing out in my own mind, but these are just some of the feelings I have.

  • zoey121zoey121 Member Posts: 926

    The awe and wonder after your first one simple cannot comepete with the experainces of your first in deathp mmorpg.

     As folks said there is a reason the oldies still exist and folks usualy go back after a while.

      I think timing has alot to do with it as well as game play, and the community.

    Each offering, offers there own starting experaince leveling or skilling up experaince.

    It either "flows with a player" or is hampered.

     We have lots of choices now but some get totaly into character apperances animations,

    how a mob resonds and of course expectations. Through in loot, gear, behaviors of others,

    game mechanics and it can either draw you in a little while or just go na been there done that before.

     I find what is hampering me from re enjoying daoc at this point, is the slowness in sitting down "healing up" ( without a bot) and the fact of playing newer games where the "downtime isn't as bad".

  • semanticsemantic Member Posts: 122

    I'm new to MMOs, but not to RPGs. My 'shock and awe' experience was with Bard's Tale back in the way back. A friend and I got together when BTII came out and took turns running the party and mapping through that one, and it was a blast. I've been playing comp games ever since, but I intentionally avoided EQ and UO when they came out, knowing I would have probably lost several years to them.

    So last fall when I found a free trial for a new MMO that promised no monthly fee, I gave it a shot and thought, Holy Crap, this is Fun! It's time to see what I've been missing.

    I think DAoC was first. It became really apparent, really quick, that there are all these interesting mechanisms left in the game that by now have become basically archaic. I almost felt nostalgic about it, because I recognized how far into it I would have been, had I been there when, for example, crafting a piece of chain mail mattered.

    But now all those things you appreciated your first time through have become a nuisance and detrimental to having fun in the game, whereas they should be the critical pieces that create depth. It's just the nature of the beast when characters are immortal I think. If there's only one direction for character development, all the neat stuff that actually made the game appealing as a world, becomes less than worthless.

    Same thing for Shadowbane. Both of these worlds have a lot of detail and the potential for great appeal, but this one-way development path just breaks them. But because they're P2P, they HAVE to maintain a one-way development path or customers will leave in disgust. And I'm not talking about permadeath in the sense that resurrection isn't an option, just that a mortal character in a virtual world should have a natural arc that includes old age and natural death.

    Now, instead of character development and interaction with the world the dual focus is 'build architecture' and 'grind'. I tried AO in there somewhere as well, but it really didn't matter. Despite some pretty decent community and interesting features in each one, there was just no escaping the feeling of being on a factory room floor. It didn't help any that everywhere I looked I saw other mechanisms that were intentially designed to make the game like an assembly line. (Why noone has dispensed with the fantasy facade and just gone ahead and made Steel Mill Online is only half a mystery at this point.)

  • ChorseryChorsery Member Posts: 22

    The issue, to me, is the 'game'. After you get past the music, the graphics, and initial superficial stuff, you're left with 'The Game'.

    Is the game interesting - I mean, does it challenge the mind, does it provided depth, does it offer multiple layers of 'game', is it different everytime you play, does it allow for new and interesting interactions with other players? These are the quests I'm on when I play.

    Unfortunately, the genre has gotten locked into a certain type of game, and then all the new games are essentially the same game with a sugar coating. For me, that's why the genre has lost some of its appeal. No matter which game I play, I'm really playing the same game. It takes about 4 weeks to work your way through the newness, shovel away the superficial layers, and then you find out what the game is all about. And often, I'm dissappointed, because "I've played this game before."

    But we should expect this. Before computers, games were primarily board games, or pencil/paper rp games. In the history of these games, there were only a few truley original games, and then a bizzilion less then intersting copy-cat games.

    Perhaps our initial experiences were with those original games, and that is why they appealed, and for some, still appeal. Those that have followed are not different games, but the same game, dressed up, spiffed up, and covered with incredible graphics.

     

     

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