It could be worse, imagine trying to wade through Moria , Mirkwood and Isengard just to get to Rohan . I don't see why people complain about this 1 expansion not giving content to lowbies when everyone is raving about LOTRO . At least Rift to lvl 50 is nowhere NEAR the grind getting a LOTRO char to lvl 50 (where Moria starts).
So in contrast, i might actually get this expansion because i feel it's "reachable" with my characters, but i won't get Rohan simply because there's too much content prior to Rohan (and costing a fortune of nickle and diming to get there).
I'll give Trion the benefit of the doubt with the "target audience" of the expansion , however i expect them to rethink things in the second expansion, otherwise they will run into the same issue WoW and Lotro is running into. Blizzard had to redo the entire lvl 1-60 experience because they knew after 3 expansions they are not going to get new players or players that skipped 1 or 2 expansions to buy your latest expansion . They might play the original game, but chances are they may or may not actually reach the expansion . Even after this, Burning Crusade is now like a big wall of grind and pain for players to get to new content, so Blizzard is now like a leaky ship, trying to figure out how to both attract new players and retain veterans without any of them feeling they have to grind through obsolete content.
Unfortunately all of them are stuck with a design flaw. They can basically only add content to the level cap. Guild Wars 2 on the other hand, can add content anywhere , at any level they like, because Arenanet figured out how to scale your character to content. Although it's not perfect, it's still the most logical and clever way of making all content relevant to everyone all the time. The Secret World got close, but ultimately failed, so i hope future MMOs look at GW2 and improve on the idea of "horizontal content" . I suppose that is also a feature in sandboxes like EVE, there isn't "lowbie content" and "end game" content that creates a barrier to entry to use the new content.
Originally posted by FrodoFragins It's too bad this game got so many things wrong. It means they'll never be a huge success and thus companies like Blizzard have no impetus to increase their content frequency to match Trions. It's great that Trion is adding to the game, but I think they missed the boat on this game.
It is too bad.
Out of any sub game, Trion to me is the most deserving of a monthly fee. Alas, it's like we predicted it's starting. People can't sustain such things anymore in this economy so games like this one will suffer for it. It starts with server merges.
I'm not doomsaying, I'm just pointing out the obvious. This is a warning sign.
I so hoped that this one, out of all of them, would survive this because of how well they work with their playerbase and how they actually listen to the players. Time will tell.
Originally posted by FrodoFragins It's too bad this game got so many things wrong. It means they'll never be a huge success and thus companies like Blizzard have no impetus to increase their content frequency to match Trions. It's great that Trion is adding to the game, but I think they missed the boat on this game.
It is too bad.
Out of any sub game, Trion to me is the most deserving of a monthly fee. Alas, it's like we predicted it's starting. People can't sustain such things anymore in this economy so games like this one will suffer for it. It starts with server merges.
I'm not doomsaying, I'm just pointing out the obvious. This is a warning sign.
I so hoped that this one, out of all of them, would survive this because of how well they work with their playerbase and how they actually listen to the players. Time will tell.
We have to wait for storm legion to release before we decide on what the future holds for rift. Dimensions truly are amazing, the most flexible player housing i've ever seen in an MMO, even if it is instanced.
DoF, first expansion jsut added endgame stuff, so did the second one (i think), they just started adding starter areas with expansions at i think it was eof (a few years into the game).
so no, they dindt, i would even go as far as claim that neither did eq1 or wow add starter stuff at that scale with their expansions but i didnt play either so
RIFT released March 2011 - this will be first expansion in almost 2 years (20 months)
for EQ2, 2 years after launch (Nov 2006), EOF was released w new content for all levels
EQ offered many new zones for *all levels* w first expansion, Kunark
the new race Iksar had no reason to experience any of the old EQ launch content
WOW 1st expansion had 2 new starting areas w 2 new races
but otherwise the same content for levels 25-60
i think the RIFT expansion sounds great but im disappointed theres no new zones under 50
when the game is almost 2 years old
good post Nadia
No expansions are perfect.. but of all that I experienced, the first 3 expansions EQ1 did were the best 1) RoK 2) SoV and 3) SoL.. Expansions 1 and 3 were content from starting cities to max level.. I wanted to add too that new classes are a must for me as well.. This is one problem many devs overlook when they design ALL combat to be tailored to the "holy trinity".. Using the design that a character has to be pure "tank, healer or dps".. you miss out on all the fun hybrid mix and matches.. I wish we could go back to the days of EQ and add to their wonder, then to simply it into bordom..
DoF, first expansion jsut added endgame stuff, so did the second one (i think), they just started adding starter areas with expansions at i think it was eof (a few years into the game).
so no, they dindt, i would even go as far as claim that neither did eq1 or wow add starter stuff at that scale with their expansions but i didnt play either so
RIFT released March 2011 - this will be first expansion in almost 2 years (20 months)
for EQ2, 2 years after launch (Nov 2006), EOF was released w new content for all levels
EQ offered many new zones for *all levels* w first expansion, Kunark
the new race Iksar had no reason to experience any of the old EQ launch content
WOW 1st expansion had 2 new starting areas w 2 new races
but otherwise the same content for levels 25-60
i think the RIFT expansion sounds great but im disappointed theres no new zones under 50
when the game is almost 2 years old
good post Nadia
No expansions are perfect.. but of all that I experienced, the first 3 expansions EQ1 did were the best 1) RoK 2) SoV and 3) SoL.. Expansions 1 and 3 were content from starting cities to max level.. I wanted to add too that new classes are a must for me as well.. This is one problem many devs overlook when they design ALL combat to be tailored to the "holy trinity".. Using the design that a character has to be pure "tank, healer or dps".. you miss out on all the fun hybrid mix and matches.. I wish we could go back to the days of EQ and add to their wonder, then to simply it into bordom..
You can't compare Rift to previous MMOs in this area. WoW, uses the class system with 3-4 variations under each class. In WoW, I have over 6 characters between 80 and 90 and since Vanilla, I have 10 or so over level 60 across 3 servers and the 2 factions. There are 3 factors here. The class you want to play, the faction you want to play, and the server you want to play on. In Rift, these factors are reduced because of the Soul system's diversity and the free server transfers, the need to level alts in Rift is greatly reduced, it's even further reduced now, with crossfaction gaming. The average Rift gamer really no longer ever needs more than 4 alts. So new starter zones, would be a bit of a waste of resources. Much like what Blizz did when they re designed all the Azeroth content through 60. Development hrs that could have been better spent where it was needed.
Yep, I'm not renewing the sub on this one. The game is good and Trion does work hard, but it's not worth the $200 per year (average) that it costs to maintain. It should have gone B2P.
While they do pump out a lot of patches and tiny content adds, they've really only added one major patch, in the last 20ish months, and that is Ember Isle.
$200? Are you in some overpriced South American or European country? Honest question.
A year sub is around $120ish, and I've seen a few times were it's on sale for $100, which is when I bought it. (USD)
And what do you consider a major patch? Because they've had some pretty major patches.
You can't compare Rift to previous MMOs in this area. WoW, uses the class system with 3-4 variations under each class. In WoW, I have over 6 characters between 80 and 90 and since Vanilla, I have 10 or so over level 60 across 3 servers and the 2 factions. There are 3 factors here. The class you want to play, the faction you want to play, and the server you want to play on. In Rift, these factors are reduced because of the Soul system's diversity and the free server transfers, the need to level alts in Rift is greatly reduced, it's even further reduced now, with crossfaction gaming. The average Rift gamer really no longer ever needs more than 4 alts. So new starter zones, would be a bit of a waste of resources. Much like what Blizz did when they re designed all the Azeroth content through 60. Development hrs that could have been better spent where it was needed.
my debate originally started when i questioned this quote
Originally posted by jommybgood
Have you looked at the xpac? Yes, it will never be as big as WoW.. but i believe with the updates and content that is being made people will continue to play and new player will come. It may be a much smaller population of players, but by no way have they missed the boat. Who knows.. the population may rise with the way this company is handling things. And I believe the server merges needed to happen.. as long as they handle the lag, which I believe they will.
what does RIFT expansion offer for new/returning players under 50?
I agree that WOW Cata revamp of all the old zones was a mistake, but thats an example of going to the other extreme
I miss the old WOW zones - they are forever gone
personally, as a returning RIFT player that never made 50
that only thing i look forward to is the level 50 content -- not getting to 50
You can't compare Rift to previous MMOs in this area. WoW, uses the class system with 3-4 variations under each class. In WoW, I have over 6 characters between 80 and 90 and since Vanilla, I have 10 or so over level 60 across 3 servers and the 2 factions. There are 3 factors here. The class you want to play, the faction you want to play, and the server you want to play on. In Rift, these factors are reduced because of the Soul system's diversity and the free server transfers, the need to level alts in Rift is greatly reduced, it's even further reduced now, with crossfaction gaming. The average Rift gamer really no longer ever needs more than 4 alts. So new starter zones, would be a bit of a waste of resources. Much like what Blizz did when they re designed all the Azeroth content through 60. Development hrs that could have been better spent where it was needed.
my debate originally started when i questioned this quote
Originally posted by jommybgood
Have you looked at the xpac? Yes, it will never be as big as WoW.. but i believe with the updates and content that is being made people will continue to play and new player will come. It may be a much smaller population of players, but by no way have they missed the boat. Who knows.. the population may rise with the way this company is handling things. And I believe the server merges needed to happen.. as long as they handle the lag, which I believe they will.
what does RIFT expansion offer for new/returning players under 50?
I agree that WOW Cata revamp of all the old zones was a mistake, but thats an example of going to the other extreme
I miss the old WOW zones - they are forever gone
personally, as a returning RIFT player that never made 50
that only thing i look forward to is the level 50 content -- not getting to 50
But, if you've never played before, and/or never made it to 50, why do you need new contnent?
Have you looked at the xpac? Yes, it will never be as big as WoW.. but i believe with the updates and content that is being made people will continue to play and new player will come. It may be a much smaller population of players, but by no way have they missed the boat. Who knows.. the population may rise with the way this company is handling things. And I believe the server merges needed to happen.. as long as they handle the lag, which I believe they will.
i like what ive read about the RIFT expansion but i think they made a mistake not offering a new race or a new starting area
how is that supposed to entice new / returning low level players?
when theres only 2 starting areas and its largely the same content until you are level 50?
EQ , EQ2, WOW all added new starting zones (not always w a new race)
Completely agree. To me Rift feels very "been there,done that"
I agree as well, but Rift does "been there, done that" better than the others imho.
Originally posted by FrodoFragins It's too bad this game got so many things wrong. It means they'll never be a huge success and thus companies like Blizzard have no impetus to increase their content frequency to match Trions. It's great that Trion is adding to the game, but I think they missed the boat on this game.
It is too bad.
Out of any sub game, Trion to me is the most deserving of a monthly fee. Alas, it's like we predicted it's starting. People can't sustain such things anymore in this economy so games like this one will suffer for it. It starts with server merges.
I'm not doomsaying, I'm just pointing out the obvious. This is a warning sign.
I so hoped that this one, out of all of them, would survive this because of how well they work with their playerbase and how they actually listen to the players. Time will tell.
Yep, I'm not renewing the sub on this one. The game is good and Trion does work hard, but it's not worth the $200 per year (average) that it costs to maintain. It should have gone B2P.
While they do pump out a lot of patches and tiny content adds, they've really only added one major patch, in the last 20ish months, and that is Ember Isle.
For all the money that i spent on things like coffe, sandwiches and beer on daily basis. 200 bucks for an year for a MMO is a freakin steal.
Also i don't play any MMO for the whole year. I play MMOs mostly 4 or 5 months a year and burn rest of my money on single player games which again makes MMO look damn cheaper.
You make it sound as if 200 a year is so damn expensive. I think you need to get a raise or something.
If anything MMOS help me save money. I would raher pay 15 bucks a month and spend weekends inside rather than burning a hole in my wallet in some pub.
The game world is tripling in size in a few weeks.
No it isnt. If you want to hype up the game, don't lie about it. The fact that the lie originated from the developerdoesnt make it any less than a lie. Yes, its a big expansion. But its nowhere close to tripling the game world. It might double it (it probably falls a bit shy of that even) but it certainly doesnt triple it.
The game world is tripling in size in a few weeks.
No it isnt. If you want to hype up the game, don't lie about it. The fact that the lie originated from the developerdoesnt make it any less than a lie. Yes, its a big expansion. But its nowhere close to tripling the game world. It might double it (it probably falls a bit shy of that even) but it certainly doesnt triple it.
If you are going to call any game developers 'liers' make sure you got something to back up your claim. Otherwise you might look like someone just 'trolling'.
Yep, I'm not renewing the sub on this one. The game is good and Trion does work hard, but it's not worth the $200 per year (average) that it costs to maintain. It should have gone B2P.
While they do pump out a lot of patches and tiny content adds, they've really only added one major patch, in the last 20ish months, and that is Ember Isle.
$200? Are you in some overpriced South American or European country? Honest question.
A year sub is around $120ish, and I've seen a few times were it's on sale for $100, which is when I bought it. (USD)
And what do you consider a major patch? Because they've had some pretty major patches.
Do you only consider new zones major patches?
The sub fee for a mid-tier recurring discount package is around $155. You can get that down to $120 or less (on special) only if you buy a year at a time up front. The initial box fee was $60. Storm Legion is $40 for current players. That ends up being a little over $200 and I didn't even include the extra $35 optional micro-transaction packs/mounts that they sell.
While it is possible to pay a little less, it is also possible to pay a little more and an estimated average of $200 per year isn't an exaggeration.
Yes, I only consider a zone addition or something equivalent to be a "major" patch. What do you consider a major patch? Even that doesn't matter becaues in the end the only thing that matters is I don't think the game is worth that much money per year, especially when I play other games.
It's all about options. How much do you want to pay?
Initial boxed set is 9.99
Sub rates as follows:
1mo=14.99
3mo=12.99
6mo=10.99
12mo=9.99 (Order this package and you get Storm Legion for free)
Packages for brand new players for Storm Legion start at 49.99 (Includes Rift boxed) and 39.99 for current and returning players.
Other packages are available for various pricing and options, but you ge the picture. You don't have to pay 200 bucks unless that is how much you wish to spend.
So for me, Rift will cost $120 for the year. Far cry for 200.
The game world is tripling in size in a few weeks.
No it isnt. If you want to hype up the game, don't lie about it. The fact that the lie originated from the developerdoesnt make it any less than a lie. Yes, its a big expansion. But its nowhere close to tripling the game world. It might double it (it probably falls a bit shy of that even) but it certainly doesnt triple it.
If you are going to call any game developers 'liers' make sure you got something to back up your claim. Otherwise you might look like someone just 'trolling'.
Um, the NDA has been lifted. The maps are out there. I have seen several of the zones personally. Unless there is so very odd scaling issues with the unseen zones then my statements are true.
Why do they always make one city for all the factions to take part in instead of making a city for each faction ? WOW done this with thier first Xpact . Ill probably just wait for DF.UW to launch and hope they made a great game this time.
DoF, first expansion jsut added endgame stuff, so did the second one (i think), they just started adding starter areas with expansions at i think it was eof (a few years into the game).
so no, they dindt, i would even go as far as claim that neither did eq1 or wow add starter stuff at that scale with their expansions but i didnt play either so
Ruins of Kunark, their first expansion added a whole new continent, new race (Iksar) and a whole new level 1+ progression route just for the Iksar and anyone who wanted to head over there from the old world. Shadows of Luclin, second expansion, added a whole new world, Luclin Moon, new race (Vah Shir), whole new level 1+ progression route just for the new race and anyone who wanted to get there from the old world. The Serpent's Spine, the eighth or ninth expansion added the Drakkin race and another level 1+ progression route in new areas of Antonica. Most of EQ's other expansions offered lower level content if not level 1 stuff as well as mid to high end stuff.
DoF, first expansion jsut added endgame stuff, so did the second one (i think), they just started adding starter areas with expansions at i think it was eof (a few years into the game).
so no, they dindt, i would even go as far as claim that neither did eq1 or wow add starter stuff at that scale with their expansions but i didnt play either so
Ruins of Kunark, their first expansion added a whole new continent, new race (Iksar) and a whole new level 1+ progression route just for the Iksar and anyone who wanted to head over there from the old world. Shadows of Luclin, second expansion, added a whole new world, Luclin Moon, new race (Vah Shir), whole new level 1+ progression route just for the new race and anyone who wanted to get there from the old world. Most of EQ's other expansions offered lower level content if not level 1 stuff as well as mid to high end stuff.
Luclin was third expansion.
Second expansion was Velious, which didnt add level 1 content but it started at lvl 30 or so, so wasnt just endgame only.
EQ2 added mid level content pretty often outside of expansions with stuff like splitpaw saga.
WoW added two completely new 1-20 paths, but didnt add anything for 20-60. Wasnt as big an issue since Azeroth was already fairly large, but they should have added more over the years.
Comments
It could be worse, imagine trying to wade through Moria , Mirkwood and Isengard just to get to Rohan . I don't see why people complain about this 1 expansion not giving content to lowbies when everyone is raving about LOTRO . At least Rift to lvl 50 is nowhere NEAR the grind getting a LOTRO char to lvl 50 (where Moria starts).
So in contrast, i might actually get this expansion because i feel it's "reachable" with my characters, but i won't get Rohan simply because there's too much content prior to Rohan (and costing a fortune of nickle and diming to get there).
I'll give Trion the benefit of the doubt with the "target audience" of the expansion , however i expect them to rethink things in the second expansion, otherwise they will run into the same issue WoW and Lotro is running into. Blizzard had to redo the entire lvl 1-60 experience because they knew after 3 expansions they are not going to get new players or players that skipped 1 or 2 expansions to buy your latest expansion . They might play the original game, but chances are they may or may not actually reach the expansion . Even after this, Burning Crusade is now like a big wall of grind and pain for players to get to new content, so Blizzard is now like a leaky ship, trying to figure out how to both attract new players and retain veterans without any of them feeling they have to grind through obsolete content.
Unfortunately all of them are stuck with a design flaw. They can basically only add content to the level cap. Guild Wars 2 on the other hand, can add content anywhere , at any level they like, because Arenanet figured out how to scale your character to content. Although it's not perfect, it's still the most logical and clever way of making all content relevant to everyone all the time. The Secret World got close, but ultimately failed, so i hope future MMOs look at GW2 and improve on the idea of "horizontal content" . I suppose that is also a feature in sandboxes like EVE, there isn't "lowbie content" and "end game" content that creates a barrier to entry to use the new content.
It is too bad.
Out of any sub game, Trion to me is the most deserving of a monthly fee. Alas, it's like we predicted it's starting. People can't sustain such things anymore in this economy so games like this one will suffer for it. It starts with server merges.
I'm not doomsaying, I'm just pointing out the obvious. This is a warning sign.
I so hoped that this one, out of all of them, would survive this because of how well they work with their playerbase and how they actually listen to the players. Time will tell.
We have to wait for storm legion to release before we decide on what the future holds for rift. Dimensions truly are amazing, the most flexible player housing i've ever seen in an MMO, even if it is instanced.
I just got off of Laethys which was medium pop and it was fine.
good post Nadia
No expansions are perfect.. but of all that I experienced, the first 3 expansions EQ1 did were the best
1) RoK 2) SoV and 3) SoL.. Expansions 1 and 3 were content from starting cities to max level.. I wanted to add too that new classes are a must for me as well.. This is one problem many devs overlook when they design ALL combat to be tailored to the "holy trinity".. Using the design that a character has to be pure "tank, healer or dps".. you miss out on all the fun hybrid mix and matches.. I wish we could go back to the days of EQ and add to their wonder, then to simply it into bordom..
You can't compare Rift to previous MMOs in this area. WoW, uses the class system with 3-4 variations under each class. In WoW, I have over 6 characters between 80 and 90 and since Vanilla, I have 10 or so over level 60 across 3 servers and the 2 factions. There are 3 factors here. The class you want to play, the faction you want to play, and the server you want to play on. In Rift, these factors are reduced because of the Soul system's diversity and the free server transfers, the need to level alts in Rift is greatly reduced, it's even further reduced now, with crossfaction gaming. The average Rift gamer really no longer ever needs more than 4 alts. So new starter zones, would be a bit of a waste of resources. Much like what Blizz did when they re designed all the Azeroth content through 60. Development hrs that could have been better spent where it was needed.
$200? Are you in some overpriced South American or European country? Honest question.
A year sub is around $120ish, and I've seen a few times were it's on sale for $100, which is when I bought it. (USD)
And what do you consider a major patch? Because they've had some pretty major patches.
Do you only consider new zones major patches?
my debate originally started when i questioned this quote
what does RIFT expansion offer for new/returning players under 50?
I agree that WOW Cata revamp of all the old zones was a mistake, but thats an example of going to the other extreme
I miss the old WOW zones - they are forever gone
personally, as a returning RIFT player that never made 50
that only thing i look forward to is the level 50 content -- not getting to 50
EQ2 fan sites
But, if you've never played before, and/or never made it to 50, why do you need new contnent?
when i return to games - i always start from scratch again (unless the character was at previous level cap)
I've returned to RIFT twice and when i return to RIFT a third time I will want to start again on a diff server
but its going to be same content ive seen for the first 40 levels
i agree for someone thats never seen RIFT - it can only get better
but players that have seen RIFT under 50 and are starting new chars, its the same old quests but w more options to level faster
EQ2 fan sites
I agree as well, but Rift does "been there, done that" better than the others imho.
For all the money that i spent on things like coffe, sandwiches and beer on daily basis. 200 bucks for an year for a MMO is a freakin steal.
Also i don't play any MMO for the whole year. I play MMOs mostly 4 or 5 months a year and burn rest of my money on single player games which again makes MMO look damn cheaper.
You make it sound as if 200 a year is so damn expensive. I think you need to get a raise or something.
If anything MMOS help me save money. I would raher pay 15 bucks a month and spend weekends inside rather than burning a hole in my wallet in some pub.
No it isnt. If you want to hype up the game, don't lie about it. The fact that the lie originated from the developerdoesnt make it any less than a lie. Yes, its a big expansion. But its nowhere close to tripling the game world. It might double it (it probably falls a bit shy of that even) but it certainly doesnt triple it.
RIFT is adding 2 continents-- each are claimed to be as big as the current continent
sounds like tripling to me
EQ2 fan sites
If you are going to call any game developers 'liers' make sure you got something to back up your claim. Otherwise you might look like someone just 'trolling'.
It's all about options. How much do you want to pay?
Initial boxed set is 9.99
Sub rates as follows:
1mo=14.99
3mo=12.99
6mo=10.99
12mo=9.99 (Order this package and you get Storm Legion for free)
Packages for brand new players for Storm Legion start at 49.99 (Includes Rift boxed) and 39.99 for current and returning players.
Other packages are available for various pricing and options, but you ge the picture. You don't have to pay 200 bucks unless that is how much you wish to spend.
So for me, Rift will cost $120 for the year. Far cry for 200.
This isnt trying to be fair, this is obvious bias towards Rift.
Um, the NDA has been lifted. The maps are out there. I have seen several of the zones personally. Unless there is so very odd scaling issues with the unseen zones then my statements are true.
http://riftnerd.com/wp-content/uploads/work-in-progress-storm-legion-map.png
They arent. Its like comparing Odus + Faydwer to Antonica in vanilla EQ
its hard to say without seeing the original content in that map too
i know its only marketing but Trion is saying the continents will be huge
http://stormlegion.riftgame.com/en/
EQ2 fan sites
I'm having a difficult time seeing the details behind all those letters where it says "Work in Progress". Man I hate watermarks.
Ruins of Kunark, their first expansion added a whole new continent, new race (Iksar) and a whole new level 1+ progression route just for the Iksar and anyone who wanted to head over there from the old world. Shadows of Luclin, second expansion, added a whole new world, Luclin Moon, new race (Vah Shir), whole new level 1+ progression route just for the new race and anyone who wanted to get there from the old world. The Serpent's Spine, the eighth or ninth expansion added the Drakkin race and another level 1+ progression route in new areas of Antonica. Most of EQ's other expansions offered lower level content if not level 1 stuff as well as mid to high end stuff.
Luclin was third expansion.
Second expansion was Velious, which didnt add level 1 content but it started at lvl 30 or so, so wasnt just endgame only.
EQ2 added mid level content pretty often outside of expansions with stuff like splitpaw saga.
WoW added two completely new 1-20 paths, but didnt add anything for 20-60. Wasnt as big an issue since Azeroth was already fairly large, but they should have added more over the years.