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Asheron's Call, deserves more than this.

2

Comments

  • ArakaneArakane Member UncommonPosts: 204
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    2002 called.  They want their rant back...

     

      LOL !  :)

  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,199
    Originally posted by Wizardry

     

    Bottom line is   COD Unreal Quake Wow EQ2 were too much competition and with little marketing,it had little chance of succeeding.Heck i was an avid gamer and i never even heard of AC when it was released,so it was really badly markleted.

     I remember when I was looking to start a new MMO back then, I never even saw AC......It was never on the shelves, no ads, nothing.....Like many, I went the EQ route and played several years there never looking for something else......If the game had better marketing it most likely would have been on par with DAoC at least.....Even now, when I wouldnt mind trying it fopr the first time, the free trial is very vague and hard to figure out.....Im under the impression that we still have to give them credit card info even for playing the free trial.......Its too bad because after watching some videos I really like the skill system in place for AC.

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Member Posts: 2,697
    Originally posted by Theocritus
    Originally posted by Wizardry

     

    Bottom line is   COD Unreal Quake Wow EQ2 were too much competition and with little marketing,it had little chance of succeeding.Heck i was an avid gamer and i never even heard of AC when it was released,so it was really badly markleted.

     I remember when I was looking to start a new MMO back then, I never even saw AC......It was never on the shelves, no ads, nothing.....Like many, I went the EQ route and played several years there never looking for something else......If the game had better marketing it most likely would have been on par with DAoC at least.....Even now, when I wouldnt mind trying it fopr the first time, the free trial is very vague and hard to figure out.....Im under the impression that we still have to give them credit card info even for playing the free trial.......Its too bad because after watching some videos I really like the skill system in place for AC.

    There is no free trial. And yes, when there was you had to put in your credit card. The question would be, why not just get it? If your interested in trying it, you aren't exactly putting up $60 like you would with a new MMO. It also isn't like you plan to go in on a 2 week free trial to only play 2 weeks and never play again.

     

    I will say that AC was in fact on shelves as many people had boxed copies. I'm not sure how people didn't hear about it as I started in UO, went to EQ for a short time (it launched only a couple of months before AC) and switched to AC once it came out. I even remember people in EQ discussing whether or not they were going to try out the new MMO: Asheron's Call.

  • Ender4Ender4 Member UncommonPosts: 2,247

    I enjoyed AC but i thought it was pretty mediocre to be honest. The character system was way too much flavor of the day. The combat was totally meh, too much aRPG thrown into my MMORPG. The lore was pretty lacking at release. I thought the magic system was poor in general. Mob AI was extremely poor etc.

    It wasn't just marketing that caused AC to not thrive.

    Now keep in mind I only played around release and for maybe 3ish months, so I'm sure all kinds of things were improved that I never got a chance to see. That is sort of the problem with the sub to play model though, I never felt like spending at least $15 to see what changed.

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Member Posts: 2,697
    Originally posted by Ender4

    I enjoyed AC but i thought it was pretty mediocre to be honest. The character system was way too much flavor of the day. The combat was totally meh, too much aRPG thrown into my MMORPG. The lore was pretty lacking at release. I thought the magic system was poor in general. Mob AI was extremely poor etc.

    It wasn't just marketing that caused AC to not thrive.

    Now keep in mind I only played around release and for maybe 3ish months, so I'm sure all kinds of things were improved that I never got a chance to see. That is sort of the problem with the sub to play model though, I never felt like spending at least $15 to see what changed.

    You do realize that AC wasn't much behind EQ and UO at their peaks right? And that it is still going 14 years later? It thrived pretty well.

     

    It also has been one of the few MMOs to ever tackle making an actual world as opposed to sticking with the orc, elf, etc. cliché character types. Did the same with creatures as well. The game was launched as a pure sandbox. There was story there, you just had to explore to find the different writings to learn what the world was and what it used to be.

     

    I will say having played EQ, UO, and AC all at their launch that the creature AI was literally no worse than the other two. The big difference was in AC you generally fought 5+ monsters at a time and in EQ you generally fought the same monster for a minute straight or longer.

  • Spector88Spector88 Member UncommonPosts: 112

    QUOTE "It had everything:

    A unique, original world

    Deep character customization and development system

    Randomized Diablo-esque loot system (no stupid green-purple's here!)

    Epic Quest system (where "QUEST" meant something)

    Involved developers

    Great combat - no homing arrows! Gasp!

    Fantastic, epic dungeons

    Meaningful death penalty, but not too harsh

    Player housing

    Darktide, the greatest PvP server ever created

    Allegiance system

    AC was and still is, the best. At the rate the genre is going, we probably will have to wait another 10-20 years before we see a game remotely close to AC, which is really sad and pathetic."

     

    --------

    Very true,

     

    The only system a little janky compared to most mmos today is the melee bar and melee combar, but with health kitting and sliding and all the stuff you could do it was fun, besides that it was also fun to just post up in a dungeon and wipe stuff out. I see a modern Asheron's Call having similar bars but with some melee cooldown skills to go with it and some better combat swing animations.

     

    Long live AC :(

    image

  • JJ82JJ82 Member UncommonPosts: 1,258

    Asherons Call 2 was with Microsoft at the helm and headed by Ken Karl on the MS side, the same Ken Karl that did nothing about macroing in AC1 for years.

    For those talking about project gorgon and hoping it will be like AC1. It wont be. The site states plainly "Think Asheron’s Call crossed with EverQuest crossed with the emergent gameplay of NetHack".

    Asherons Call 1 and EverQuest were polar opposites so mixing them together is going to create a very non-Asherons Call game. It is being headed by Eric Heimburg, one of the main producers of Asherons Call...2. Not 1. The other main person involved is Sandra Powers, she started on AC2, then moved over to AC1 so she had no hand in making AC1 what it was.

    Personally, I would love to see AC1 re-released with a graphic make-over and..well, the sounds as well (those damn druge screams ugh!).

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • MardukkMardukk Member RarePosts: 2,217

    I never even heard of AC back in the day.  I only knew about EQ because I picked it out randomly from a store.  Wish I had known about it though.  I do agree that marketing was probably neither companies strong point. 

     

    I keep seeing people saying that random Diablo style loot is good.  I think that random universal loot tables are lame and lazy.  You should need a reason to farm a certain mob (loot unique to that mob)?  I thought one of the things EQ got right was the unique loot to the mob along with rare spawn boss type mobs.  Everything else about AC sounds great though.  Odd that no other devs have copied from AC.

  • JJ82JJ82 Member UncommonPosts: 1,258
    Originally posted by Mardukk

     Odd that no other devs have copied from AC.

    Sadly it does make sense when you really look at it.

    UO coins the term MMO, gets over 300,000 players and is based on an established IP.

    EQ is heavily based on D&D, a known product and again gets over 300,000 players.

    Asherons Call, completely unique. Only stays above 100,000 players for around 4-6 months and hangs down around 30k for a year.

    DaoC, heavily based on EQ and thus D&D tops 300,000 players.

    Anarchy Online, completely unique, sells 100k copies and playerbase plummets after the first month.

    Lineage 1 heavily based on D&D with an Asian flair tops all of them.

    The die is cast, uniqueness is out...clones are in with very few willing to chance breaking the chain of mediocrity.

    "People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

    They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
    http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  • Spector88Spector88 Member UncommonPosts: 112
    Originally posted by JJ82
    Originally posted by Mardukk

     Odd that no other devs have copied from AC.

    Sadly it does make sense when you really look at it.

    UO coins the term MMO, gets over 300,000 players and is based on an established IP.

    EQ is heavily based on D&D, a known product and again gets over 300,000 players.

    Asherons Call, completely unique. Only stays above 100,000 players for around 4-6 months and hangs down around 30k for a year.

    DaoC, heavily based on EQ and thus D&D tops 300,000 players.

    Anarchy Online, completely unique, sells 100k copies and playerbase plummets after the first month.

    Lineage 1 heavily based on D&D with an Asian flair tops all of them.

    The die is cast, uniqueness is out...clones are in with very few willing to chance breaking the chain of mediocrity.

    Very true, unfortunately by the time A.C. was developed enough to be superior to the other games (imo) it had been 2-3 years down the road, and it hadn't had a huge marketing campaign. Dark Majesty was a real treat. But the original out of the box AC was not even 10% as good as the product it is today.

    image

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Member Posts: 2,697
    Originally posted by JJ82
    Originally posted by Mardukk

     Odd that no other devs have copied from AC.

    Sadly it does make sense when you really look at it.

    UO coins the term MMO, gets over 300,000 players and is based on an established IP.

    EQ is heavily based on D&D, a known product and again gets over 300,000 players.

    Asherons Call, completely unique. Only stays above 100,000 players for around 4-6 months and hangs down around 30k for a year.

    DaoC, heavily based on EQ and thus D&D tops 300,000 players.

    Anarchy Online, completely unique, sells 100k copies and playerbase plummets after the first month.

    Lineage 1 heavily based on D&D with an Asian flair tops all of them.

    The die is cast, uniqueness is out...clones are in with very few willing to chance breaking the chain of mediocrity.

    This is still not correct. I'd have to look back at the other post someone made trying to claim that AC was way behind the other two back in the day and see if that one was you as well. If so, you clearly ignored my response to you before.

     

    AC was a little behind EQ and UO (EQ also topped at more like 400k not 300k) and it also held its numbers for years, not a brief stint of time like you suggest. The no content updates for 6 months leading up to the release of ToD caused player numbers to cut down sharply. The release of ToD didn't do much to stop that and after the release of ToD the game was finally down to the 30k mark that you suggest. That was in 2005 and the game launched in 1999 so yeah, you are quite a bit off on your numbers.

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Member Posts: 2,697
    Originally posted by JJ82

    Asherons Call 2 was with Microsoft at the helm and headed by Ken Karl on the MS side, the same Ken Karl that did nothing about macroing in AC1 for years.

    For those talking about project gorgon and hoping it will be like AC1. It wont be. The site states plainly "Think Asheron’s Call crossed with EverQuest crossed with the emergent gameplay of NetHack".

    Asherons Call 1 and EverQuest were polar opposites so mixing them together is going to create a very non-Asherons Call game. It is being headed by Eric Heimburg, one of the main producers of Asherons Call...2. Not 1. The other main person involved is Sandra Powers, she started on AC2, then moved over to AC1 so she had no hand in making AC1 what it was.

    Personally, I would love to see AC1 re-released with a graphic make-over and..well, the sounds as well (those damn druge screams ugh!).

    Sandra was also one of the biggest detriments to the development of AC and did nothing but hold it back. I wouldn't be looking to get into an MMO she is in charge of again. I believe both of them also worked on Star Trek Online, so their track record has certainly not improved any over time.

  • zimikezimike Member UncommonPosts: 158
    Emotions are very important for the longevity of a game and Asheron's Call created strong emotional connects between other players and the game. I've only see this type of emotion connection with Star Wars Galaxies and even then I would place Asheron's Call higher on the totem pole.

    Here I am 14 years later and I can still remember exploring the world with friends, dropping down the shaft into the subway portal system, clicking a randomly spawned portal just to end up dead the instanced I spawned, being portal stormed into the middle of nowhere, camping named bosses for days, collecting rare dyes, etc. Each and every experience I can remember and I can remember the emotions felt. However, I cannot say the same for any other games made post Asheron's Call.

    A reboot or sequel based on the exact concepts(skills, leveling, etc) of the first Asheron's Call, would end up being a cash cow, so you have to ask yourself this question, "Why does Turbine hate money"?

    Sorry guys for the rant and for any grammar errors. I've been told they are legendary.

    Regards,

    ZIKE
  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 2,997

    It is very true it is aged and outdated but judging it today isn't fair. The greatness that could have been AC would have came from Turbine keeping the IP alive and building toward  the sandbox game it tried to be instead of jumping on the themepark bandwagon with Lotro.

     

    Imagine mmos today if Turbine instead was the AAA sandbox alternative offering a drastically different play style to EQ and Wow. The market would be SO much more interesting. Instead Turbine sold out along with most of developers today.

     

    AC was never a real competitor to EQ and certainly not Wow but it was an alternative genre play style which had some of the most loyal fans in the history of video games. THEY wanted different game to EQ and they got it! Then Turbine let the IP drown.

    You stay sassy!

  • ArakaneArakane Member UncommonPosts: 204
    Originally posted by Spector88

    I started playing MMO's when I was 9. If you want to call "The Realm" (AOL/SIERRA 1996 or so) an MMO, which is still around today much like Asheron's Call is. I've seen what I (Feeling as though I am a pioneer in MMOs) consider tiers in MMO history. Asheron's Call I would consider the second major tier along with Dark Age of Camelot (RvRvR) and EQ (Raid) those being the biggest contributions that stick out, along with more complex crafting systems etc.

    What bothers me is this. Asheron's Call never really got a fair shake at the market. It was always in the shadows to EQ and DAoC even, although it has been beloved, and respected especially by the way of Darktide by true MMORPG fans. The fact that in 2012 the game still has a dedicated solid following willing to pay 12.95 a month, is a testiment alone. Considering flop after flop with newer graphics and way less to offer come out.

    Turbine or whomever was in control of Asherons Call 2, ruined Asheron's Call the franchise (for now). Asheron's Call 2 had nothing to do with AC1 in many ways, and was way way before its time in many departments. My dad worked in IT, I always had relatively decent PC's, and my PC could barely play AC2 when it came out, I bet a staggering amount of the market could barely play AC2, it was ahead of its time in many ways, but also like many games pushed out too soon and ruined by bugs and lack of content.

    Asheron's Call is the best MMORPG/game to ever be released in my mind period. I've played them all, see the game list above? I've played relatively good amounst of atleast 60-75% of the games on that list, I've pre-ordered most of the new tier games, (Tera, Aion, Rift, Guild Wars 2) and they all seem to fall below what they could achieve.

    What I do know about Asheron's Call is this, Asheron's Call for whatever reason out of the second tier games, had ideas that World of Warcraft didnt take. See, World of Warcraft wasn't the greatest MMO, when it first came out, it actually sucked. Like the Omega Yo-Yo or JNCO jeans, World of Warcraft was the MMORPG "fad" or what made it more mainsteam, it wasn't really because it was a great game, it became greater and better over time, but originally, vanilla WoW? Yeah. It really wasn't that good. Only people who only ever played WoW would think it was.

    Allegiance Monarchies, Vassal Passup, Trophies/Ground Litter, Elemental Weapons, More sophisticated quests/Rolling balls of death/Puzzle flooring. So much of what is in A.C. is lacking in MOST modern MMORPGs.

    Could you imagine a modern Dereth? Updated graphics, freedom to build your character as you wish, new monarchies on the rise, a more complex mansion building system. Territory/new darktide battles over dungeons. Mysterious randomly spawning portals to dungeons with great loot. Shiny elemental weapons?

    All the story line is there, the creatures are there, what happened? Turbine was bought up, gutted out, and became a business model. But the greatest game and a game I THINK could solve a lot of MMORPG unrest, would be a new sandbox re-done Asheron's Call.

    I pray one day Turbine comes to its senses, realization that it has a game that could be hyped, and if loyal to its roots. Out-shine any current to date MMORPG. This is coming from someone who has played-em-all. Seen-em-all. A Asheron's Call sequel, marketed successfully, could over time easily become the #1 MMORPG in the U.S. with a updated crafting system and player housing crafting system.

    The exploration, monarchy system, grind system/attribute system, etc. Is all still different enough for most gamers to come off and completely innovative in 2013.

    I'm so passionate about this that while in college, I tried contacting many turbine executives to ask or plead with them to look more into the A.C. series. But for now, it appears they will allow the original to quietly calm down and burn out.

             I will add my voice with those who will always love AC and I do wish there would be a 3rd in the series though I doubt the will to do that exists at the right levels. AC...My 1st & forever loved mmorpg. .I will go back before it goes ftp to re-up a couple accounts. Hail Asheron ! I will always be glad I answered your call.

     

                                                                                                                                                               Arakane

  • AztecAztec Member Posts: 101
    Originally posted by Spector88

    Could you imagine a modern Dereth? Updated graphics, freedom to build your character as you wish, new monarchies on the rise, a more complex mansion building system. Territory/new darktide battles over dungeons. Mysterious randomly spawning portals to dungeons with great loot. Shiny elemental weapons?

    All the story line is there, the creatures are there, what happened? Turbine was bought up, gutted out, and became a business model. But the greatest game and a game I THINK could solve a lot of MMORPG unrest, would be a new sandbox re-done Asheron's Call.

    I pray one day Turbine comes to its senses, realization that it has a game that could be hyped, and if loyal to its roots. Out-shine any current to date MMORPG. This is coming from someone who has played-em-all. Seen-em-all. A Asheron's Call sequel, marketed successfully, could over time easily become the #1 MMORPG in the U.S. with a updated crafting system and player housing crafting system.

    I 100% agree with OP here. Some companies do not even know the diamond in the rough that they do have. If they did as you suggest they would make a lot of money and make a lot of people happy for decades to come. They would have another game that would stand the test of time like AC1 has. However the most obvious things just seem to elude big business today. These businesses in general make the dumbest decisions as of late. Sometimes to go forward you must look to the past. AC1 is the perfect example of this. I for one never had more fun playing a game than AC1. I do not think AC1's genius will ever be repeated because it is just to easy and who want to make easy money? /s

  • ZeymereZeymere Member UncommonPosts: 209

    I really enjoyed AC a lot back in the day!

    I have a question.  Why doesn't any other games give you the freedom AC does to put points anywhere you choose?  I recall people being able to do certain things I couldn't just because their jump was higher, or people that could out run mobs that I couldn't because their run was higher. The flexability was awesome!

     

    Zeymere

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247
    Originally posted by Zeymere

    I really enjoyed AC a lot back in the day!

    I have a question.  Why doesn't any other games give you the freedom AC does to put points anywhere you choose?  I recall people being able to do certain things I couldn't just because their jump was higher, or people that could out run mobs that I couldn't because their run was higher. The flexability was awesome!

     

    Zeymere

    Freedom to put points in any skill

    Freedom to climb mountains and leap across massive chasms

    Freedom to replay any quest in the game just because you like it

    Freedom to place things in the game world

     

     

    There are a lot of features and freedoms in AC that you no longer see. Some are gone because players have shown a preference for the alternative (ex: removal of comps, projectile ammo and consumables) and some are gone because of the cost/hurdles (either technical or with how players use them) in maintaining and supporting them. 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • BurtzumBurtzum Member Posts: 67

    Asheron's Call felt like a world.  No MMO I've played since has had that feeling.  They all feel closed-off, herding me from one area to the next.  Very lame.  AC was more free-form.

     

  • bamwallabamwalla Member UncommonPosts: 197
    Agreed.  AC was very open, there weren't any walkthroughs out yet, and the fan websites had little information.  Other than a few places in the dires that were good hunting, or the coords to Pooky the Rabbit.  The quest for the Sword of Lost Light was instantly my favorite quest and no other has come even close.  Quests that took hours, yet anyone, even those without the best build or equipment could do them.  The crafting/tinkering system.  The massive spell system -- hell in the very beginning you had to put the components together yourself and see if it created a spell.  The huge world....  Sure I spent thousands of hours in there, far more than I should have, perhaps even ruining some real world relationships.   I have tried just about every game that has come out since.  I play far less these days, and will forever play far less.  My friends and I still have laughs about some of our times in AC over a decade ago.  AC3?  Will probably never happen but I like to think that it might.
  • BloodyVikingBloodyViking Member UncommonPosts: 132

    Here is what really bites. Turbine is sitting on a gold-pile without seeming to know it.

     

    All they need to do is recreate Asheron's Call 1 in a new engine with THE EXACT SAME STORYLINE. They have 14 years of material to build on and recreate.

     

    The only thing that needs to be tweaked is the combat, but only slightly. I think with new animations and a pre-combat technical choice how to fight it should be all good.

     

    It's hardly much of a financial risk. They know the world, lore and stories are superb. All they need is a good team to recreate the game and good marketing and they'll be swimming in dollars from all the jaded themepark players.

  • xmojo1xmojo1 Member UncommonPosts: 57
    The memories I have of AC1. I played the 3 month open beta and was there for the live launch. Then stayed with AC1 for almost 7 years. The first 2 years were the best I'd ever experienced in any MMO since. My most exciting memory of AC was the determination to get to Fort Tethana due to all the stories I heard about it. So once I reached the lvl 30s I struck out for Fort Teth. It was scary going thru the Dires to get to the fort, but I wasn't disappointed when I made it. Lots of people, most higher level than I, the monsters that surrounded the fort, and the incredible loot people were selling. I couldn't use most of it, but some that I could buy were much better than what I had. Good times.
  • AshanorAshanor Member UncommonPosts: 109

    I agree with you about Asheron's Call. It is without a doubt the best MMORPG ever made. I disagree about it not being a success though. It is considered one of the big three if I remember correctly. The big three were Everquest, Ultima Online, and Asheron's Call until after Dark Age of Camelot was released.

     

    The problem with MMORPGs today is the popularity Everquest got by being first to market (3D MMO) due to Asheron's Call being delayed by two years. What that did was prompt many developers to not follow in Ultima Online or Asheron's Calls footsteps but to instead try to be like Everquest, which was evident in DAoC and later in World of Warcraft. DAoC was a good game, but who can really argue that it wasn't a EQ clone for people who enjoyed siege PvP? The same could be said of WoW, except for it was more like a EQ lite.

     

    Seeing the success of WoW prompted more and more developers to be like WoW, which in reality is just being more like EQ. Nobody has really innovated since the big three. They were all very unique and fun games, and they each appealed to a vastly different audience of MMORPG players. Pretty much all MMOs developed today aim for the same audience, the EQ type players.

     

    Maybe one day a developer will truly innovate and there will be another game like Asheron's Call. A game that is not afraid to take a chance and be different. The reason those early games were so different and unique is because they didn't have anything to follow, and they were better games for it. Developers need to stop looking at other games and just develop something unique.

     

    If anyone out there knows of a spiritual successor to AC that I somehow missed or has come out since I posted this, make sure to message me and tell me about it.

     

    I played on Leafcull from 1999 to 2003. Between late 2001 and 2003 I went back and forth between AC and DAoC. I went to DAoC for a while and missed AC and my friends and went back. I played up until I got into WoW beta in March of 2003. I tried a couple times over the years to go back to AC, but it just never feels the same. I know animations and graphics shouldn't be that important, but it just looks so dated these days. If they released the game today with modern graphics and a few tweaks to systems to make them more modern, I would buy it up in a heartbeat.

     

  • NafunieruNafunieru Member UncommonPosts: 152

    Only recent game I can think of that may one day be close to AC1, is an indie MMO in development called Project Gorgon. http://projectgorgon.com/

    The developers mention Asheron's Call in their description and the early footage does seem to have some resemblance AC1 and other hardcore mmos of that time.

    There's a first look of the game on youtube here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AWlPHrSu5Y

    The game is in very early stages of Alpha, but hopefully it will one day actually become something more and something that can give former AC players a home.

  • -Mithan--Mithan- Member Posts: 9

    Asherons call rocked.  It was hard, but so awesome.   If it had done better, I think the mmo industry would be much different today.

     

    Maybe the private servers that will pop up this fall after turbine releases the server code will give it a new lease on life, though ultimately, I wish a new version would be kickstarted.

    VN Forum Manager

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