And STO had Leonard Nimoy and Zachary Quinto, plus some guy who had written for a Star Trek pen and paper game: Big names doesn't mean it magically gets better. The real test will be can PWI keep Emmert from destroying the game with stupid decisions, like he has in the past, or will they finally be the company to keep him in line? So far he is on track to taking this game down the same path the previous ones took.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
There are many of us old school AD&D, newer D&D 2.0, 3.5 and Pathfinder fans that this hold zero intrest in playing it (but love to discuss it). This is not D&D or AD&D, its a cheap use of an IP that Wizards of the Coast destroyed with 4.0.
And to top it all off they put a company, Cryptic, who stands proud of the short turn around times (1 1/2- 2 year development) from concept to release of their previous games, incharge of making it.
Whats sad (but funny) is the sheep who played Champions and hated it, then played Star Trek online and hated, and now think that this game will somehow be developed different.
Its like someone coming up to you in real life and saying " Can you do me a favor and stand with your hands on your hips and your feet 12" apart?" And then kicking you in the nutz. (CO)
Then apologizing and saying "Ahh sorry man, I didnt expect you to drop to your knees and roll around on the ground in pain for two minutes. So can you do me another favor and stand just like before, but I promise I wont kick you in the nards?" And because you believe their apologie you do it and promptly get the jewels pancaked. (STO)
And guess what Cryptic has been saying now. "Ohh no, no. We understand what we did wrong with the previous two releases." *rolls eyes* "No we didnt make a fortune." *snickers* "I promise this game will be different." "Ohh by the way, would you mind standing with your feet about 12" apart?"
Its literaly like the abusive relationship syndrome. The more Cryptic lies and fails to deliver, the more people come back wanting to believe that this time they're telling the truth and it will be different.
You can see it in a lot of the posts when it first got announced. "Ive been burned twice by Cryptic, this is the last chance I give them, they better deliver!" LOL, really....dumbasses.
You want a sneak peak at how I see Neverwinter playing,
There are many of us old school AD&D, newer D&D 2.0, 3.5 and Pathfinder fans that this hold zero intrest in playing it (but love to discuss it). This is not D&D or AD&D, its a cheap use of an IP that Wizards of the Coast destroyed with 4.0.
And to top it all off they put a company, Cryptic, who stands proud of the short turn around times (1 1/2- 2 year development) from concept to release of their previous games, incharge of making it.
Whats sad (but funny) is the sheep who played Champions and hated it, then played Star Trek online and hated, and now think that this game will somehow be developed different.
Its like someone coming up to you in real life and saying " Can you do me a favor and stand with your hands on your hips and your feet 12" apart?" And then kicking you in the nutz. (CO)
Then apologizing and saying "Ahh sorry man, I didnt expect you to drop to your knees and roll around on the ground in pain for two minutes. So can you do me another favor and stand just like before, but I promise I wont kick you in the nards?" And because you believe their apologie you do it and promptly get the jewels pancaked. (STO)
And guess what Cryptic has been saying now. "Ohh no, no. We understand what we did wrong with the previous two releases." *rolls eyes* "No we didnt make a fortune." *snickers* "I promise this game will be different." "Ohh by the way, would you mind standing with your feet about 12" apart?"
Its literaly like the abusive relationship syndrome. The more Cryptic lies and fails to deliver, the more people come back wanting to believe that this time they're telling the truth and it will be different.
You can see it in a lot of the posts when it first got announced. "Ive been burned twice by Cryptic, this is the last chance I give them, they better deliver!" LOL, really....dumbasses.
You want a sneak peak at how I see Neverwinter playing,
No suroprise here. Before PW bought Cryptic they wanted to make non-mmo out of it. When PW took over they returned to mmo idea. So no surprise this actually feel like non-mmo corpg similar to Vindictus or GW1 than actual mmorpg. Anyway I am passing on this.
There are many of us old school AD&D, newer D&D 2.0, 3.5 and Pathfinder fans that this hold zero intrest in playing it (but love to discuss it). This is not D&D or AD&D, its a cheap use of an IP that Wizards of the Coast destroyed with 4.0.
And to top it all off they put a company, Cryptic, who stands proud of the short turn around times (1 1/2- 2 year development) from concept to release of their previous games, incharge of making it.
Whats sad (but funny) is the sheep who played Champions and hated it, then played Star Trek online and hated, and now think that this game will somehow be developed different.
Its like someone coming up to you in real life and saying " Can you do me a favor and stand with your hands on your hips and your feet 12" apart?" And then kicking you in the nutz. (CO)
Then apologizing and saying "Ahh sorry man, I didnt expect you to drop to your knees and roll around on the ground in pain for two minutes. So can you do me another favor and stand just like before, but I promise I wont kick you in the nards?" And because you believe their apologie you do it and promptly get the jewels pancaked. (STO)
And guess what Cryptic has been saying now. "Ohh no, no. We understand what we did wrong with the previous two releases." *rolls eyes* "No we didnt make a fortune." *snickers* "I promise this game will be different." "Ohh by the way, would you mind standing with your feet about 12" apart?"
Its literaly like the abusive relationship syndrome. The more Cryptic lies and fails to deliver, the more people come back wanting to believe that this time they're telling the truth and it will be different.
You can see it in a lot of the posts when it first got announced. "Ive been burned twice by Cryptic, this is the last chance I give them, they better deliver!" LOL, really....dumbasses.
You want a sneak peak at how I see Neverwinter playing,
I look at how Cryptic did Champions and STO and think that this might be the way to go with NeverWinter. Light on developer provided content, but heavy on the user tools for role play.
Champions Online started off as a good game. The systems were there and the game worked. The dynamic content was cool and it even built a decent story, but there just wasn't enough of the developer provided content. The zones were tiny, the stories were short and when the game released, there weren't even enough quests to get to max level.
If you think about it, they've spent at least five years developing the systems that are going to go into NeverWinter and the expectation on the part of players is that they will be creating content, not just consuming it. It might actually work.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I look at how Cryptic did Champions and STO and think that this might be the way to go with NeverWinter. Light on developer provided content, but heavy on the user tools for role play.
Champions Online started off as a good game. The systems were there and the game worked. The dynamic content was cool and it even built a decent story, but there just wasn't enough of the developer provided content. The zones were tiny, the stories were short and when the game released, there weren't even enough quests to get to max level.
If you think about it, they've spent at least five years developing the systems that are going to go into NeverWinter and the expectation on the part of players is that they will be creating content, not just consuming it. It might actually work.
Doubtful. The foundry system isn't nearly open or flexiblke enough to satisfy true NwN fans. If you doubt it , go try the system on STO. Actually you can you use it when it's up. Everytime they update the game it seems that it gets taken down for an extended time. It'll also be bogged down by the C-Store. It's what Cryptic does best.
They actually didn't spend 5 years. They've spent 5 total years on the project. It was initially so bad PWI made them go back to the drawing boards. If you're referring to the Foundry , I covered that above. On the upside, Cryptic hasn't attempted a multi-faction game with this one. They obviously have no clue on how to construct such a game. This game will have all the creatativity of a loosely bound straight jacket, as far as the foundry goes. The C-store on this one will make EA look positively reasonable.
To be honest i have never been too fond of Cryptic, due previous comments, but after 20 years playing D&D and 6 years of WoW i found quite amusing and almost predictable that D&D 4th edition were released like it did. However i am not entirely displeased about the 4th edition campaing setting, in a lot of ways make things more easy going, but it screwed badly on the roleplaying part... and hell whats a table top rpg without roleplaying??! again, the main rule of D&D is to "improvise" and modify anything you need for your campain, i found that capable dungeons master can modify the system quite well and make things really enjoyable.
Now this is what i expected of Neverwinter setting up at 4th edition, but it seems that even Cryptic is changing a lot of rules and bending a lot of things that originally in my apreciation were good on 4th edition. Moreover, i've heard that 50% of the world is open, and 50% of the rest of the game is instanced. I am not sure of the proportions but WoW originally was like 85% open, which was one of the big things to enrich their lore, now if we think of "Neverwinter" which is part of the "Forgotten Realms" one of the things you want, and expect is a rich big place where to go, from at least Neverwinter to Waterdeep, or Griffins Nest, or at least be able to explore "The High Forest" for not saying Icewind dale.
So far i have not heard anything about those at all, one thing is good that they decide to go using the forgery, but you can create special places for that, or a different plane on the multiverse to that, where you can copy your current "real" character and start adventuring using the "owner" or creators content. But should not be mixed, if we are going with Neverwinter you can make a lot of things possible and with a good director, you can make a great success.
Sadly, i do believe that this "young" director, does not stand to height of what it has on its hand, D&D is an OLD game, but its the Father of all, and should be respected. Saying that i believe this has to be directed by a more experienced company, or people with at least a real high background on MMOs and D&D.
Let's hope we are all wrong, and this turns out good, otherwise this will be the first time i get fooled by Cryptic.
Originally posted by lizardbones I look at how Cryptic did Champions and STO and think that this might be the way to go with NeverWinter. Light on developer provided content, but heavy on the user tools for role play. Champions Online started off as a good game. The systems were there and the game worked. The dynamic content was cool and it even built a decent story, but there just wasn't enough of the developer provided content. The zones were tiny, the stories were short and when the game released, there weren't even enough quests to get to max level. If you think about it, they've spent at least five years developing the systems that are going to go into NeverWinter and the expectation on the part of players is that they will be creating content, not just consuming it. It might actually work.
Doubtful. The foundry system isn't nearly open or flexiblke enough to satisfy true NwN fans. If you doubt it , go try the system on STO. Actually you can you use it when it's up. Everytime they update the game it seems that it gets taken down for an extended time. It'll also be bogged down by the C-Store. It's what Cryptic does best.
They actually didn't spend 5 years. They've spent 5 total years on the project. It was initially so bad PWI made them go back to the drawing boards. If you're referring to the Foundry , I covered that above. On the upside, Cryptic hasn't attempted a multi-faction game with this one. They obviously have no clue on how to construct such a game. This game will have all the creatativity of a loosely bound straight jacket, as far as the foundry goes. The C-store on this one will make EA look positively reasonable.
They don't need "true NwN fans" to enjoy the game or even play it. They just need people. They also don't need WoW's population either. They just need enough people for PWI to not kill them with axes.
If PWI made them rewrite the game or even just portions of it, that's a good thing. That means however low they may be, PWI has standards and Cryptic has to meet them. If the game is better than Champions and better than STO, then it'll be a good thing.
** edit **
I'm not saying this will be good. I'm saying their approach might be the right way to go. Quick development, instanced content and let the players create content from the start.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
As an old hardcore NeverWinter:Nights players, and D&D table-top player this game simply looks bad. Repeat the same attack-50 billion times + shieldbash + some random "daily" skills.
It just looks like a D&D version of Vindictus. Remember, almost everything is instanced as well, and from every interview i've read it seems like just another linear-themepark with tons of instancing.
Am I the only one disappointed about this ? Seems as if Cryptic struck again, and I even saw several Champions Online & STO animations being reused for monsters & I swore that I'd seen some of those sword animations from Champions Online as well.
Thoughts?
disapointed? no
I was pretty aware the game would be like C9 on the first time I saw the video and saw who was making it. also take notice even though turbine tryed to take most of the rules of the tabletop in the game they make several changes to make it happen and it was not good then the freemium hit and nothing changed.
I say if you really want to play D&D find some people who want it, if not don't have much hope they will always make crap
I love Salvatore but didn't he also write for KOA? And after playing that game and focusing on the story because he is one of my faveorite writers I can say in all honesty that I was sorely dissapointed.
I will hold judgment on Neverwinter until I have more information.
I'm not saying this will be good. I'm saying their approach might be the right way to go. Quick development, instanced content and let the players create content from the start.
If it were anyone else I'd say you were correct. Again these games greatest attraction comes down to player generated content. Other then NwN , no other game has come close to being attractive in this manner. NwN toolset is what set it apart. Game designers are not willing to replicate this anymore. It's a completely different envirnoment . The foundry has perhaps a 1/10 of the flexiblity of the NwN toolset. The problem is that Cryptic wants to replicate the success of NwN with a C-Store attached to it. Yet, they are poor at coding and aren't interested in relenquishing control to the population to actively create what NwN accomplished. Much as BF 3 and EA, the Mods of BF 42 , BF-2 made that game better and prolonged the life. You can't turn a sow ear into a silk purse no matter how well intentioned. A poor engine is a poor engine.
Simplified character creation, building, and play through the interface are what looks to be downfall of this game to me. "Hey let's play D&D on the computer! Pick one of these templates and slap your name on it. Yeah just use those 5 buttons to do stuff. It's cool!"
Repeat the same attack-50 billion times + shieldbash + some random "daily" skills
Literally the FIRST thing the video says is, "These are some of dozens of skills that will be availible at higher level."
And another sidenote; STO stumbled out the gate but has had incredible content updates from Cryptic for the past 2 years. I dont play any sci-fi mmos full-time, but I hear the Romulan episode they just released is massive, fun, and nearly doubled the already substantial population.
Frankly, OP is guilty of simply regurgitating points from other sources with no new information.
Comments
one name...........R.A. Salvatore
And STO had Leonard Nimoy and Zachary Quinto, plus some guy who had written for a Star Trek pen and paper game: Big names doesn't mean it magically gets better. The real test will be can PWI keep Emmert from destroying the game with stupid decisions, like he has in the past, or will they finally be the company to keep him in line? So far he is on track to taking this game down the same path the previous ones took.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
There are many of us old school AD&D, newer D&D 2.0, 3.5 and Pathfinder fans that this hold zero intrest in playing it (but love to discuss it). This is not D&D or AD&D, its a cheap use of an IP that Wizards of the Coast destroyed with 4.0.
And to top it all off they put a company, Cryptic, who stands proud of the short turn around times (1 1/2- 2 year development) from concept to release of their previous games, incharge of making it.
Whats sad (but funny) is the sheep who played Champions and hated it, then played Star Trek online and hated, and now think that this game will somehow be developed different.
Its like someone coming up to you in real life and saying " Can you do me a favor and stand with your hands on your hips and your feet 12" apart?" And then kicking you in the nutz. (CO)
Then apologizing and saying "Ahh sorry man, I didnt expect you to drop to your knees and roll around on the ground in pain for two minutes. So can you do me another favor and stand just like before, but I promise I wont kick you in the nards?" And because you believe their apologie you do it and promptly get the jewels pancaked. (STO)
And guess what Cryptic has been saying now. "Ohh no, no. We understand what we did wrong with the previous two releases." *rolls eyes* "No we didnt make a fortune." *snickers* "I promise this game will be different." "Ohh by the way, would you mind standing with your feet about 12" apart?"
Its literaly like the abusive relationship syndrome. The more Cryptic lies and fails to deliver, the more people come back wanting to believe that this time they're telling the truth and it will be different.
You can see it in a lot of the posts when it first got announced. "Ive been burned twice by Cryptic, this is the last chance I give them, they better deliver!" LOL, really....dumbasses.
You want a sneak peak at how I see Neverwinter playing,
compair...
Dungeons & Dragons: Daggerdale
and
Neverwinter
Scarily similar....
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
dont be jealous
^....... This. If anyone thinks otherwise is delusional.
No suroprise here. Before PW bought Cryptic they wanted to make non-mmo out of it. When PW took over they returned to mmo idea. So no surprise this actually feel like non-mmo corpg similar to Vindictus or GW1 than actual mmorpg. Anyway I am passing on this.
Don't you mean, "anyone who thinks this is delusional"?
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
I look at how Cryptic did Champions and STO and think that this might be the way to go with NeverWinter. Light on developer provided content, but heavy on the user tools for role play.
Champions Online started off as a good game. The systems were there and the game worked. The dynamic content was cool and it even built a decent story, but there just wasn't enough of the developer provided content. The zones were tiny, the stories were short and when the game released, there weren't even enough quests to get to max level.
If you think about it, they've spent at least five years developing the systems that are going to go into NeverWinter and the expectation on the part of players is that they will be creating content, not just consuming it. It might actually work.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Doubtful. The foundry system isn't nearly open or flexiblke enough to satisfy true NwN fans. If you doubt it , go try the system on STO. Actually you can you use it when it's up. Everytime they update the game it seems that it gets taken down for an extended time. It'll also be bogged down by the C-Store. It's what Cryptic does best.
They actually didn't spend 5 years. They've spent 5 total years on the project. It was initially so bad PWI made them go back to the drawing boards. If you're referring to the Foundry , I covered that above. On the upside, Cryptic hasn't attempted a multi-faction game with this one. They obviously have no clue on how to construct such a game. This game will have all the creatativity of a loosely bound straight jacket, as far as the foundry goes. The C-store on this one will make EA look positively reasonable.
To be honest i have never been too fond of Cryptic, due previous comments, but after 20 years playing D&D and 6 years of WoW i found quite amusing and almost predictable that D&D 4th edition were released like it did. However i am not entirely displeased about the 4th edition campaing setting, in a lot of ways make things more easy going, but it screwed badly on the roleplaying part... and hell whats a table top rpg without roleplaying??! again, the main rule of D&D is to "improvise" and modify anything you need for your campain, i found that capable dungeons master can modify the system quite well and make things really enjoyable.
Now this is what i expected of Neverwinter setting up at 4th edition, but it seems that even Cryptic is changing a lot of rules and bending a lot of things that originally in my apreciation were good on 4th edition. Moreover, i've heard that 50% of the world is open, and 50% of the rest of the game is instanced. I am not sure of the proportions but WoW originally was like 85% open, which was one of the big things to enrich their lore, now if we think of "Neverwinter" which is part of the "Forgotten Realms" one of the things you want, and expect is a rich big place where to go, from at least Neverwinter to Waterdeep, or Griffins Nest, or at least be able to explore "The High Forest" for not saying Icewind dale.
So far i have not heard anything about those at all, one thing is good that they decide to go using the forgery, but you can create special places for that, or a different plane on the multiverse to that, where you can copy your current "real" character and start adventuring using the "owner" or creators content. But should not be mixed, if we are going with Neverwinter you can make a lot of things possible and with a good director, you can make a great success.
Sadly, i do believe that this "young" director, does not stand to height of what it has on its hand, D&D is an OLD game, but its the Father of all, and should be respected. Saying that i believe this has to be directed by a more experienced company, or people with at least a real high background on MMOs and D&D.
Let's hope we are all wrong, and this turns out good, otherwise this will be the first time i get fooled by Cryptic.
What we do in life, echoes in eternity.
They don't need "true NwN fans" to enjoy the game or even play it. They just need people. They also don't need WoW's population either. They just need enough people for PWI to not kill them with axes.
If PWI made them rewrite the game or even just portions of it, that's a good thing. That means however low they may be, PWI has standards and Cryptic has to meet them. If the game is better than Champions and better than STO, then it'll be a good thing.
** edit **
I'm not saying this will be good. I'm saying their approach might be the right way to go. Quick development, instanced content and let the players create content from the start.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
disapointed? no
I was pretty aware the game would be like C9 on the first time I saw the video and saw who was making it. also take notice even though turbine tryed to take most of the rules of the tabletop in the game they make several changes to make it happen and it was not good then the freemium hit and nothing changed.
I say if you really want to play D&D find some people who want it, if not don't have much hope they will always make crap
I love Salvatore but didn't he also write for KOA? And after playing that game and focusing on the story because he is one of my faveorite writers I can say in all honesty that I was sorely dissapointed.
I will hold judgment on Neverwinter until I have more information.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
If it were anyone else I'd say you were correct. Again these games greatest attraction comes down to player generated content. Other then NwN , no other game has come close to being attractive in this manner. NwN toolset is what set it apart. Game designers are not willing to replicate this anymore. It's a completely different envirnoment . The foundry has perhaps a 1/10 of the flexiblity of the NwN toolset. The problem is that Cryptic wants to replicate the success of NwN with a C-Store attached to it. Yet, they are poor at coding and aren't interested in relenquishing control to the population to actively create what NwN accomplished. Much as BF 3 and EA, the Mods of BF 42 , BF-2 made that game better and prolonged the life. You can't turn a sow ear into a silk purse no matter how well intentioned. A poor engine is a poor engine.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
Literally the FIRST thing the video says is, "These are some of dozens of skills that will be availible at higher level."
And another sidenote; STO stumbled out the gate but has had incredible content updates from Cryptic for the past 2 years. I dont play any sci-fi mmos full-time, but I hear the Romulan episode they just released is massive, fun, and nearly doubled the already substantial population.
Frankly, OP is guilty of simply regurgitating points from other sources with no new information.