Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

I really feel that prior to 1.2 SWTOR had the best MMO combat since WoW.

tixylixtixylix Member UncommonPosts: 1,288

I've played a lot of MMOs prior to WoW like EQ, EVE and SWG as a few examples, however the actual combat part of MMOs was pretty poor. I remember EQ would be take a swing every 5 swconds and you'd stand still because movement offered not advantage. SWG Pre CU, while I loved it, again was just pretty broken thanx to buffs and comp armour. For me WoW just got that MMO style of combat perfected, it was the first MMO I really had fun with in PVP. Yes I tried DAOC but the UI was bad and character movement felt like controlling a brick on ice, it was so clunky and bad. WoW was just smooth, fluid and instant, you hit a button and it showed that you hit it on the screen straight away. The class design is still the best today, though they had fewer classes, they all felt unique and fun, which most MMOS before had like 40 and they all felt genric.

SWTOR came along and I hated almost everything about it lol. I thought it was another poorly designed themepark MMO where the worlds are more like tiny maps and are all enclosed. I thought the fleet stations basically made the game cities pointless, like why are the fleets even there? I found making ALTS boring because you had to go from planet to planet in the same order and if you hated a planet then tough.

However despite the ability delay thing, prior to 1.2 SWTOR had the most fun combat I've played since I played WoW back in 2005. It felt slower paced like if you got two Druids in 2005 to fight (not sure how they play now) but fights could last like 10 mins with people and I just loved it. The only good world PVP in SWTOR was that Balloon ride because it took a long time to wait for the Ballon and ride it and it felt like a real world objective. I had so much fun hanging around there fighting people the combat was so great. Just such a shame the rest of the game was bad and 1.2 happened, just made the combat like a third faster and ruined the balance of the game. Each patch I've heard from people still playing seems to make it worse. This is what you get from listening to forum whiners, they mostly don't know how to play the game. The launch game was one of the most balanced MMOs ever, tank classes could have done with a CC earlier on and the con/inquis could have done with one less, but really that and a few minor things were it. 

Just a shame, I much prefered it to GW2's combat but I guess that'll be all the rage next.

«1

Comments

  • CujoSWAoACujoSWAoA Member UncommonPosts: 1,781

    DC:UO. Better combat.

    TERA. Better combat.

    GW2. Way better combat

    AoC. Better combat

    APB: Even better combat and more star warsy! lol

    So to you sir, I respectfully disagree.

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 5,643
    Someone is forgeting ability delay and endless CC.
  • tixylixtixylix Member UncommonPosts: 1,288
    Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

    DC:UO. Better combat.

    TERA. Better combat.

    GW2. Way better combat

    AoC. Better combat

    APB: Even better combat and more star warsy! lol

    So to you sir, I respectfully disagree.

    I didn't like the combat in any of those games, they felt more gimmicky than anything.

     

    Also I mentioned apart from ability delay, I personally like CC myself but I only played open world PVP and never even entered a battleground because I'm against them in MMOs.

  • Storman1977Storman1977 Member Posts: 207
    Originally posted by tixylix
    Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

    DC:UO. Better combat.

    TERA. Better combat.

    GW2. Way better combat

    AoC. Better combat

    APB: Even better combat and more star warsy! lol

    So to you sir, I respectfully disagree.

    I didn't like the combat in any of those games, they felt more gimmicky than anything.

     

    Also I mentioned apart from ability delay, I personally like CC myself but I only played open world PVP and never even entered a battleground because I'm against them in MMOs.

     

    So, what you're saying is you don't like "real time combat"?  Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed most of the time I spent in SWTOR, but the combat was boring to me.  With the games Cujo listed, you have to actively participate in character placement and you have to actively dodge and block.

    In SWTOR, regardless of how you move during combat, hits and misses are the results of background calculations, not character position.  Thus the reason you get hit when there is no line of sight, because the server put into motion the attack sequence before you moved out of sight.  With the games listed, if you move behind an object, you don't get hit.  If you raise your shield, you don't get hit.  If you roll out of the path of the spell, you don't get hit.  With TOR and WOW, you have to start your defensive maneuver before the mob start their offensive maneuver...

  • DenambrenDenambren Member UncommonPosts: 398
    Originally posted by tixylix
    Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

    DC:UO. Better combat.

    TERA. Better combat.

    GW2. Way better combat

    AoC. Better combat

    APB: Even better combat and more star warsy! lol

    So to you sir, I respectfully disagree.

    I didn't like the combat in any of those games, they felt more gimmicky than anything.

     

    Also I mentioned apart from ability delay, I personally like CC myself but I only played open world PVP and never even entered a battleground because I'm against them in MMOs.

     

    Awarded the "Best MMO PvP" yet you never entered a battleground.

     

    Thanks for sharing your opinion.

     

    This thread is now exclusively about SWTOR open world pvp.

  • Vunak23Vunak23 Member UncommonPosts: 633

    Along with what someone has said about other games like TERA , DCUO etc. SWTOR had one major stupid flaw.

    There tab targeting system blew hardcore and still does. 

    "In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  • tiefighter25tiefighter25 Member Posts: 937
    Originally posted by Denambren
     

     Awarded the "Best MMO PvP" yet you never entered a battleground.

     

    Thanks for sharing your opinion.

     

    This thread is now exclusively about SWTOR open world pvp.

    Then this is going to be an ugly thread.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo Member CommonPosts: 7,207
    War had better combat than Swtor.
  • kartoolkartool Member UncommonPosts: 520
    Originally posted by Storman1977
    Originally posted by tixylix
    Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

    DC:UO. Better combat.

    TERA. Better combat.

    GW2. Way better combat

    AoC. Better combat

    APB: Even better combat and more star warsy! lol

    So to you sir, I respectfully disagree.

    I didn't like the combat in any of those games, they felt more gimmicky than anything.

     

    Also I mentioned apart from ability delay, I personally like CC myself but I only played open world PVP and never even entered a battleground because I'm against them in MMOs.

     

    So, what you're saying is you don't like "real time combat"?  Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed most of the time I spent in SWTOR, but the combat was boring to me.  With the games Cujo listed, you have to actively participate in character placement and you have to actively dodge and block.

    In SWTOR, regardless of how you move during combat, hits and misses are the results of background calculations, not character position.  Thus the reason you get hit when there is no line of sight, because the server put into motion the attack sequence before you moved out of sight.  With the games listed, if you move behind an object, you don't get hit.  If you raise your shield, you don't get hit.  If you roll out of the path of the spell, you don't get hit.  With TOR and WOW, you have to start your defensive maneuver before the mob start their offensive maneuver...

    Real time combat isn't in any of the games listed except for APB which isn't an MMO anyway. It's a lobby game. The rest are all hot-key games that feel quicker, but they aren't real time. They have GCD's and cooldowns. A lot of peopel seem to be getting real-time combat and hotkey combat that feels more "actiony" mixed up.

  • solarinesolarine Member Posts: 1,203
    Originally posted by Storman1977
    Originally posted by tixylix
    Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

    DC:UO. Better combat.

    TERA. Better combat.

    GW2. Way better combat

    AoC. Better combat

    APB: Even better combat and more star warsy! lol

    So to you sir, I respectfully disagree.

    I didn't like the combat in any of those games, they felt more gimmicky than anything.

     

    Also I mentioned apart from ability delay, I personally like CC myself but I only played open world PVP and never even entered a battleground because I'm against them in MMOs.

     

    So, what you're saying is you don't like "real time combat"?  Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed most of the time I spent in SWTOR, but the combat was boring to me.  With the games Cujo listed, you have to actively participate in character placement and you have to actively dodge and block.

    In SWTOR, regardless of how you move during combat, hits and misses are the results of background calculations, not character position.  Thus the reason you get hit when there is no line of sight, because the server put into motion the attack sequence before you moved out of sight.  With the games listed, if you move behind an object, you don't get hit.  If you raise your shield, you don't get hit.  If you roll out of the path of the spell, you don't get hit.  With TOR and WOW, you have to start your defensive maneuver before the mob start their offensive maneuver...

     

    I don't know. Real time action combat makes no sense to me in an RPG. The character should matter *a lot* in an RPG, and action combat moves the core strength away from your character's power, to your twitch capabilities. Now I know that's exactly what many players want. But I don't think that's what RPG combat should be. 

    So, yes. I'll take SWTOR or WOW combat over TERA, DCUO and GW2 combat, too. More engaging, because it emphasises character, and my character is my priority in these games, not the combat. The combat is an outlet of my character as opposed to my character being just a tool to engage in combat with. I wish combat was even slower!

    As for AOC... Well, I don't see by which measure that game's combat can said to be good. It's a mess of badly implemented ideas. Even TSW's combat feels better to me - and that's pseudo-action combat.

     

  • RefMinorRefMinor Member UncommonPosts: 3,452
    The Sims has better PvP than SWTOR
  • tiefighter25tiefighter25 Member Posts: 937
    Originally posted by RefMinor
    The Sims has better PvP than SWTOR

    Ha ha!

    Nerf Ovens.

  • DraronDraron Member Posts: 993

    I kinda agree with OP. Combat in SWTOR feels smooth, it's not something I can really describe. The closest game I've played that has the same feeling would be WoW. The battles just flow. And I actually like how SWTOR makes CC and stuns a big part of battles. They play a too minor of role in most MMO's these days.

  • Saur0nSaur0n Member UncommonPosts: 114
    LoL Best combat since wow?  Since when was wow the combat benchmark?  That's sad.
  • DrunkWolfDrunkWolf Member RarePosts: 1,699
    Originally posted by Saur0n
    LoL Best combat since wow?  Since when was wow the combat benchmark?  That's sad.

     ^ this +1000

    its sad that so many people started with WoW and that was their first MMO. now everybody compares other games to that as if it was the best at everything. WoW combat = garbage.

    Tera combat at least took some kind of skill, same with conan.

    but give me Asherons Call combat any day of the week over any of these thempark nub games.

  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 158

    This is one of few things I agree with that Swtor did good. Not really the skills and combat itself, but the responsiveness of the gameplay. Except the ability delays and problems it had a gameplay responsiveness that almost felt like WoW.  GW2 is example of the opposite. The entire game seems to have 300ms input lag. No matter your ping, fps and such, in GW2 attacks and animations feel like they start after a delay, not when you directly hit the skill button.  Not to mention running animations making everything feel unresponsive too.

    This is something that has broken a huge amount of MMOs for me and made em completely unplayable. It's also what I think is one reason WoW is so successful. If your game engine and animations aren't spot on 100% responsive it's just not fun playing and it feel's like im slowly building up a headache. But I'm very picky when it comes to this, other people seem to easily play with 30fps, v-sync on for extra input lag and what not. :)

    Age of Conan would probably have had the most fun combat though, if it wasn't for the fact they added delays between the combo steps you had to push. That was the most stupid thing I ever seen. If you could execute the combos in your own speed and not with built in cooldowns, it would have been awesome.

  • tixylixtixylix Member UncommonPosts: 1,288

    I do like real time combat, I love FPS games, I love Dark Souls and Mount and Blade. Sadly none of those games you listed are real time combat as far as I see it, they're like a bizzare mix and then never felt right to me. I would love to see an MMO do proper real time combat like Dark Souls or Mount and Blade.

     

     

  • solarinesolarine Member Posts: 1,203
    Originally posted by DrunkWolf
    Originally posted by Saur0n
    LoL Best combat since wow?  Since when was wow the combat benchmark?  That's sad.

     ^ this +1000

    its sad that so many people started with WoW and that was their first MMO. now everybody compares other games to that as if it was the best at everything. WoW combat = garbage.

    Tera combat at least took some kind of skill, same with conan.

    but give me Asherons Call combat any day of the week over any of these thempark nub games.

     

    You're assuming way too much.

    I started playing MMOs even before they were called MMOs... :P And I'd still say WOW has the best flowing ground combat in any MMO up to now. I'm not talking about systems and features, but purely about responsiveness, animation and the resulting "fluidity" of combat. Yep, it's mostly a feeling and thus somewhat subjective, but there it is.

    Though I have to agree Asheron's Call had very good combat, too, in a totally different style. Actually I'd probably rank that 2nd overall. But I haven't played that in years - like, *long, long* years. :)

    As for click-combat, I'd probably go with Lineage 2.

    TERA, I was quite underwhelmed.

     

  • tixylixtixylix Member UncommonPosts: 1,288

    I think WoW had the best PVP of any MMO I played back in 2004 and 2005 before Battlegrounds came in. It was the first themepark MMO I played with a seamless world, the transitions between zones was just amazing and still other MMOs don't have that. It just setup for the best open world PVP of any MMO ever, I have still to have the same experience. 

    Sadly they killed the world in WoW and I think it gets all the hate it does because of how Blizzard have dumbed it down over the years. However go back to when it launched and there wasn't an MMO like it and funny enough if you play a Vanilla server you'll see how it was harder and more group based than MMOs out today. I find that sad tbh because it show you how easy MMOs have become, even EQ2 was dumbed down so much that it's actually easier than WoW now.

    WoW was just known for making combat fun and I was speaking of the combat, not just the PVP.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,846

    I'm not sure what "best MMO combat since WoW" is supposed to mean, since WoW's combat is rather mediocre and many games since have had better combat.  It's kind of like saying that someone is the best punter since Sammy Baugh.  Famous, yes, but not for being a great punter.

  • tixylixtixylix Member UncommonPosts: 1,288
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    I'm not sure what "best MMO combat since WoW" is supposed to mean, since WoW's combat is rather mediocre and many games since have had better combat.  It's kind of like saying that someone is the best punter since Sammy Baugh.  Famous, yes, but not for being a great punter.

    I really don't think any MMO since has had better combat, Blizzard hit it spot on to the degree few developers can. I just think WoW gets hate for what Blizzard has turned it into, rather than what it was. That said what MMO has lasted this long without any hate? EQ was ruined with Luclin and PoP back in 2002 and 2003, EVE Online had the space game ignored for a long time and CCP are now as much of a joke as SOE. I could go on but really there is no MMO out there that doesn't get hate after being around for such a long time, only difference is now is every MMO gets hate straight away because they suck these days. 

    I've played every MMO under the sun and still even though I cannot stand WoW these days, it has the best combat of any MMO.

  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG Member UncommonPosts: 1,387
    Originally posted by tixylix

     Also I mentioned apart from ability delay

    I don't think you can "apart from" the ability delay problem.

    The ability delay problem is what killed the fun of the pvp combat for a lot of players in this game, and what a lot of negative comments about the combat system of swtor comes from.

    CC is minor in comparison as CC can be just as bad in any other mmos.

    The ability delay makes the game feels slow paced and laggy compare to combat of WoW, GW2 or even WAR and original SWG.

     

     

  • Storman1977Storman1977 Member Posts: 207
    Sorry, but real-time and real-time/turn based hybrid games do a superior job in actually putting you in the shoes of your avatar.  The more control you have over your character, the more you should tend to develope that character.  DDO, Tera, GW2 all do this well.  AoC does this satisfactorily.  You say that the character development should be mainstay and not the players twitch skill.  Well, while I have no experience in Tera or GW2, I can tell you from six years of experience with DDO, all the twitch skills in the world will not make a poorly developed character successful.  I'd imagine it is the same with Tera and GW2.  The real-time combat does not become the focus, but rather the tool upon which the characters strength can shine through.  Add in a strong player with developed twitch, and you can truly feel heroic in these type of games.
  • Sevenstar61Sevenstar61 Member UncommonPosts: 1,686

    I thought that ability delay was fixed with January 24th patch.

     

    Still remember people posting on forum: OMG they fixed it. Are we talking about the way how SWTOR abilities work (animations etc?)

     


    Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
    Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
    Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E

  • EyrothathEyrothath Member UncommonPosts: 200

    Real time combat MMORPG's =

    Darkfall Online

    Global Agenda

    Mortal Online

    Fallen Earth

    Face of Mankind

    Xsyon

     

    You know I am not sure how many of you remember a game called "FURY" what a horrible mistake of a MMO, they described it as a "PVP MMO" it was ALL battlegrounds with player hubs and they did completely away with cooldowns, but it added no dimensions to PVP, it got repetitive and boring, you still had to target stuff in order to hit it, it all came down to whoever could button smash the fastest, I pratically broke my damn keyboard.. Guild Wars 2 actually makes up for the mistake, you don't have to target it anything in order to hit it, you can dodge and roll out of the way of attacks, again, it adds more dimensions to PVP, my only complaint is player enemy name-tags and getting targetted from 50 miles away through a wall..

    Point is, the more "REAL" that combat is in a MMORPG, the more it becomes based on actual skill rather than who can spam the most spells and this is how all "PVP" MMO's need to be..

Sign In or Register to comment.